Armstrong's Time Trial Idea?

Still Use 531 said:

I agree with Armstrong that the current Tour is broken
and should be fixed. The daily sprints in the first
week are entertaining but it's not safe to mix the
sprinters with the GC'ers in these mass 40mph pelotons.
Lance is suggesting that an early time trial be used to
sort out riders.

I guess he slept through the prologue, then. That's a time
trial, and it sorts out the riders. It's not the sprinters
that make the finishes dangerous, it's the GC teams putting
their non-sprinters on the front where they should not be.
Placing a time trial early in the race will solve nothing as
the GC teams will still place their men on the front to try
to prevent their leader from losing time. Boonen may be
brash, but he's also right.

Still Use 531 said:

I agree with Armstrong that the current Tour is broken
and should be fixed. The daily sprints in the first
week are entertaining but it's not safe to mix the
sprinters with the GC'ers in these mass 40mph pelotons.
Lance is suggesting that an early time trial be used to
sort out riders.

It's not clear to me in exactly what form he's suggesting
that the time trials take. Is he suggesting that the
first several stages be nothing but time trials? Or just
one stage?

I think what he's after for the first 7 or 8 stages on the
flats is to somehow make it comfortable for the top GC'ers
to concede the front of the peloton to the sprinters. So
we'd have the O'Grady's and McEwen's and Boonen's working
hard up front, with Armstrong, Ullrich, Hamilton, et al
riding piano in the back, no worries, just cruising along
until the mountain stages.

Of course, Messr Henri Desgranges would roll over in his
grave at the very thought of structuring the Tour to make
anyone comfortable.

It's already been done. The problem with the prologue is
that it isn't long enough to create significant time gaps. I
think ASO learned this lesson after last year's stage 1.
That's why the TdF next year will not have a prologue, but
like Paris-Nice this year, will start with a first stage
that is a ITT about 3 times longer than a prologue (running
the length of l'ile de Nourmoutiers).

Another fix would be to change the flamme rouge crash rule.
The rider's official time would be the time at which he
crosses the 1km line. After that the GC contenders, their
bodygueards and the non-sprinters can take it easy instead
of trying to stay in front with tthe sprinters to avoid the
crash at the finish line

Kyle Legate said:

I guess he slept through the prologue, then. That's a time
trial, and it sorts out the riders. It's not the sprinters
that make the finishes dangerous, it's the GC teams
putting their non-sprinters on the front where they should
not be. Placing a time trial early in the race will solve
nothing as the GC teams will still place their men on the
front to try to prevent their leader from losing time.
Boonen may be brash, but he's also right.

I guess this was the kind of thing that the "patron" used to
sort out. The GC contenders used to know exactly where and
when the Tour would be decided and the various agreements
that were there allowed a fair degree of predictability for
each stage.

Whether these days it is a lack of a strong recognised
leader (and that would speak volumes about Armstrong's
perceived status in the pelOton), or that the Tour is now
competitive across the range of riders, or whether this is
just a romantic view of the past, who knows?

In article <[email hidden]>,

trg said:

Still Use 531 said:

I agree with Armstrong that the current Tour is broken
and should be fixed. The daily sprints in the first week
are entertaining but it's not safe to mix the sprinters
with the GC'ers in these mass 40mph pelotons. Lance is
suggesting that an early time trial be used to sort out
riders.

Quoted message said:

Another fix would be to change the flamme rouge crash
rule. The rider's official time would be the time at which
he crosses the 1km line. After that the GC contenders,
their bodygueards and the non-sprinters can take it easy
instead of trying to stay in front with tthe sprinters to
avoid the crash at the finish line

This still seems like a sensible rule to me, as it has every
time I have heard it suggested. But it seems that most of
the stage crashes so far have been outside the 1 km mark,
typically about halfway back in the pack.

So, won't this mean that as the pack nears the red flag, the
sprinters will still try to up the tempo to hold off late
breaks, the GC teams will still push forward to keep their
leaders safe, and many of the run-up crashes will continue
to happen?

It will make the sprints a lot simpler,

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] wiredcola.comwiredcola.comOpen ↗
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Another fix would be to change the flamme rouge crash
rule. The rider's official time would be the time at which
he crosses the 1km line. After that the GC contenders,
their bodygueards and the non-sprinters can take it easy
instead of trying to stay in front with tthe sprinters to
avoid the crash at the finish line

Tyler Hamilton's suggestion to Jean-Marie Leblanc yesterday
was giving the same time as the pack to everyone in the pack
at the 3K mark. Theoretically, the GC guys could sit up and
avoid crashes in the sprint finishes.

If they would just use the real time for the TTT that
would solve the problem. Everyone knows that you have to
have a strong team to win the Tour. Why not just go back
to using the real time gaps. That would have sorted out
some things already.

Rick

"mrbadog" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Another fix would be to change the flamme rouge crash
rule. The rider's official time would be the time at
which he crosses the 1km line. After

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the GC contenders, their bodygueards and the non-
sprinters can take it

easy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

instead of trying to stay in front with tthe sprinters
to avoid the

crash at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the finish line

Tyler Hamilton's suggestion to Jean-Marie Leblanc
yesterday was giving the same time as the pack to everyone
in the pack at the 3K mark. Theoretically, the GC guys
could sit up and avoid crashes in the sprint finishes.

"Still Use 531" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I agree with Armstrong that the current Tour is broken and
should be

fixed.

Maybe the Tour organizers should heed your advice and award
the final yellow jersey out to a person voted best by a
group of Fred's like you on the day before the Prologue.
Then they can drive the racers from stage to stage in big
air conditioned buses and let them ride ceremoniously into
the stage finishing town.

"Kyle Legate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I guess he slept through the prologue, then. That's a time
trial, and it sorts out the riders. It's not the sprinters
that make the finishes dangerous, it's the GC teams
putting their non-sprinters on the front

where

Quoted message said:

they should not be. Placing a time trial early in the race
will solve nothing as the GC teams will still place their
men on the front to try to prevent their leader from
losing time. Boonen may be brash, but he's also right.

So, Kyle, are you trying to be even more naive than the
other dink?

Those "non-sprinters" are called "leadout trains". Or maybe
you think that guys like Scott Sunderland shouldn't be
contending for stage wins?

I suppose you guys can never enjoy a single thing. If it all
goes according to plan it's a boring race and if it's
exciting and dangerous it's a needless danger to the
sprinters (the fvvking SPRINTERS? Those nutjobs that have to
be carried over every rise in the ground by their teams in
the first place?)

"Still Use 531" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I agree with Armstrong that the current Tour is broken and
should be

fixed.

Quoted message said:

The daily sprints in the first week are entertaining but
it's not safe to mix the sprinters with the GC'ers in
these mass 40mph pelotons. Lance is suggesting that an
early time trial be used to sort out riders.

It's not clear to me in exactly what form he's suggesting
that the time trials take. Is he suggesting that the
first several stages be nothing but time trials? Or just
one stage?

I think what he's after for the first 7 or 8 stages on the
flats is to somehow make it comfortable for the top GC'ers
to concede the front of the peloton to the sprinters. So
we'd have the O'Grady's and McEwen's and Boonen's working
hard up front, with Armstrong, Ullrich, Hamilton, et al
riding piano in the back, no worries, just cruising along
until the mountain stages.

Of course, Messr Henri Desgranges would roll over in his
grave at the very thought of structuring the Tour to make
anyone comfortable.

It's called racing and Mr. Lance should quit his whinning. I
think his comments tell us more about the pressure he's
feeling and what it's doing to his psyche than anything
else. Maybe he'll crack his shoulder like Tyler last year
and he'll have an opportunity to show us all how well he can
tolerate pain.

"Rick Roof" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Everyone knows that you have to have a strong team to win
the Tour.

I wonder if anyone told that to Greg LeMond in '89, Pedro
Delgato in 1988 or Stephen Roche in '87?

Lance's idea seems ridiculous, but the course seems
incredibly dangerous so far. It seems like something could
be done to make the race a bit safer. Crashes aren't the
objective.

Still Use 531 said:

I agree with Armstrong that the current Tour is broken
and should be fixed. The daily sprints in the first
week are entertaining but it's not safe to mix the
sprinters with the GC'ers in these mass 40mph pelotons.
Lance is suggesting that an early time trial be used to
sort out riders.

It's not clear to me in exactly what form he's suggesting
that the time trials take. Is he suggesting that the
first several stages be nothing but time trials? Or just
one stage?

I think what he's after for the first 7 or 8 stages on the
flats is to somehow make it comfortable for the top GC'ers
to concede the front of the peloton to the sprinters. So
we'd have the O'Grady's and McEwen's and Boonen's working
hard up front, with Armstrong, Ullrich, Hamilton, et al
riding piano in the back, no worries, just cruising along
until the mountain stages.

Of course, Messr Henri Desgranges would roll over in his
grave at the very thought of structuring the Tour to make
anyone comfortable.