Armstrong's Time Trial Idea?

Still Use 531 said:

I agree with Armstrong that the current Tour is broken and should be
fixed. The daily sprints in the first week are entertaining but it's
not safe to mix the sprinters with the GC'ers in these mass 40mph
pelotons. Lance is suggesting that an early time trial be used to
sort out riders.

I guess he slept through the prologue, then. That's a time trial, and it
sorts out the riders. It's not the sprinters that make the finishes
dangerous, it's the GC teams putting their non-sprinters on the front where
they should not be. Placing a time trial early in the race will solve
nothing as the GC teams will still place their men on the front to try to
prevent their leader from losing time. Boonen may be brash, but he's also
right.

Kyle Legate said:

I guess he slept through the prologue, then. That's a time trial, and it
sorts out the riders. It's not the sprinters that make the finishes
dangerous, it's the GC teams putting their non-sprinters on the front where
they should not be. Placing a time trial early in the race will solve
nothing as the GC teams will still place their men on the front to try to
prevent their leader from losing time. Boonen may be brash, but he's also
right.

I guess this was the kind of thing that the "patron" used to sort out.
The GC contenders used to know exactly where and when the Tour would be
decided and the various agreements that were there allowed a fair degree
of predictability for each stage.

Whether these days it is a lack of a strong recognised leader (and that
would speak volumes about Armstrong's perceived status in the pelOton),
or that the Tour is now competitive across the range of riders, or
whether this is just a romantic view of the past, who knows?

Still Use 531 said:

I agree with Armstrong that the current Tour is broken and should be
fixed. The daily sprints in the first week are entertaining but it's
not safe to mix the sprinters with the GC'ers in these mass 40mph
pelotons. Lance is suggesting that an early time trial be used to
sort out riders.

It's not clear to me in exactly what form he's suggesting that the
time trials take. Is he suggesting that the first several stages be
nothing but time trials? Or just one stage?

I think what he's after for the first 7 or 8 stages on the flats is to
somehow make it comfortable for the top GC'ers to concede the front
of the peloton to the sprinters. So we'd have the O'Grady's and
McEwen's and Boonen's working hard up front, with Armstrong, Ullrich,
Hamilton, et al riding piano in the back, no worries, just cruising
along until the mountain stages.

Of course, Messr Henri Desgranges would roll over in his grave at the
very thought of structuring the Tour to make anyone comfortable.

It's already been done. The problem with the prologue is that it isn't long
enough to create significant time gaps. I think ASO learned this lesson
after last year's stage 1. That's why the TdF next year will not have a
prologue, but like Paris-Nice this year, will start with a first stage that
is a ITT about 3 times longer than a prologue (running the length of l'ile
de Nourmoutiers).

Another fix would be to change the flamme rouge crash rule. The rider's
official time would be the time at which he crosses the 1km line. After that
the GC contenders, their bodygueards and the non-sprinters can take it easy
instead of trying to stay in front with tthe sprinters to avoid the crash at
the finish line

In article <[email hidden]>,

trg said:

Still Use 531 said:

I agree with Armstrong that the current Tour is broken and should be
fixed. The daily sprints in the first week are entertaining but it's
not safe to mix the sprinters with the GC'ers in these mass 40mph
pelotons. Lance is suggesting that an early time trial be used to
sort out riders.

Quoted message said:

Another fix would be to change the flamme rouge crash rule. The rider's
official time would be the time at which he crosses the 1km line. After that
the GC contenders, their bodygueards and the non-sprinters can take it easy
instead of trying to stay in front with tthe sprinters to avoid the crash at
the finish line

This still seems like a sensible rule to me, as it has every time I have
heard it suggested. But it seems that most of the stage crashes so far
have been outside the 1 km mark, typically about halfway back in the
pack.

So, won't this mean that as the pack nears the red flag, the sprinters
will still try to up the tempo to hold off late breaks, the GC teams
will still push forward to keep their leaders safe, and many of the
run-up crashes will continue to happen?

It will make the sprints a lot simpler,

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Another fix would be to change the flamme rouge crash rule. The rider's
official time would be the time at which he crosses the 1km line. After that
the GC contenders, their bodygueards and the non-sprinters can take it easy
instead of trying to stay in front with tthe sprinters to avoid the crash at
the finish line

Tyler Hamilton's suggestion to Jean-Marie Leblanc yesterday was giving
the same time as the pack to everyone in the pack at the 3K mark.
Theoretically, the GC guys could sit up and avoid crashes in the
sprint finishes.

If they would just use the real time for the TTT that would solve the
problem. Everyone knows that you have to have a strong team to win the
Tour. Why not just go back to using the real time gaps. That would have
sorted out some things already.

Rick

"mrbadog" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Another fix would be to change the flamme rouge crash rule. The rider's
official time would be the time at which he crosses the 1km line. After

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the GC contenders, their bodygueards and the non-sprinters can take it

easy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

instead of trying to stay in front with tthe sprinters to avoid the

crash at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the finish line

Tyler Hamilton's suggestion to Jean-Marie Leblanc yesterday was giving
the same time as the pack to everyone in the pack at the 3K mark.
Theoretically, the GC guys could sit up and avoid crashes in the
sprint finishes.

Quoted message said:

Everyone knows that you have to have a strong team to win the
Tour.

Not really: see Lemond, Greg, 1989.
BTW, did they have a TTT that year? I do remember that he had only two
teammates still in the race by the time they got to Paris.

"Still Use 531" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I agree with Armstrong that the current Tour is broken and should be

fixed.

Maybe the Tour organizers should heed your advice and award the final yellow
jersey out to a person voted best by a group of Fred's like you on the day
before the Prologue. Then they can drive the racers from stage to stage in
big air conditioned buses and let them ride ceremoniously into the stage
finishing town.

"Kyle Legate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I guess he slept through the prologue, then. That's a time trial, and it
sorts out the riders. It's not the sprinters that make the finishes
dangerous, it's the GC teams putting their non-sprinters on the front

where

Quoted message said:

they should not be. Placing a time trial early in the race will solve
nothing as the GC teams will still place their men on the front to try to
prevent their leader from losing time. Boonen may be brash, but he's also
right.

So, Kyle, are you trying to be even more naive than the other dink?

Those "non-sprinters" are called "leadout trains". Or maybe you think that
guys like Scott Sunderland shouldn't be contending for stage wins?

I suppose you guys can never enjoy a single thing. If it all goes according
to plan it's a boring race and if it's exciting and dangerous it's a
needless danger to the sprinters (the fvvking SPRINTERS? Those nutjobs that
have to be carried over every rise in the ground by their teams in the first
place?)

"Still Use 531" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I agree with Armstrong that the current Tour is broken and should be

fixed.

Quoted message said:

The daily sprints in the first week are entertaining but it's not safe to
mix the sprinters with the GC'ers in these mass 40mph pelotons. Lance is
suggesting that an early time trial be used to sort out riders.

It's not clear to me in exactly what form he's suggesting that the time
trials take. Is he suggesting that the first several stages be nothing but
time trials? Or just one stage?

I think what he's after for the first 7 or 8 stages on the flats is to
somehow make it comfortable for the top GC'ers to concede the front of the
peloton to the sprinters. So we'd have the O'Grady's and McEwen's and
Boonen's working hard up front, with Armstrong, Ullrich, Hamilton, et al
riding piano in the back, no worries, just cruising along until the
mountain stages.

Of course, Messr Henri Desgranges would roll over in his grave at the very
thought of structuring the Tour to make anyone comfortable.

It's called racing and Mr. Lance should quit his whinning. I think his
comments tell us more about the pressure he's feeling and what it's doing to
his psyche than anything else. Maybe he'll crack his shoulder like Tyler
last year and he'll have an opportunity to show us all how well he can
tolerate pain.

(Mapei81) said:

Quoted message said:

Everyone knows that you have to have a strong team to win the
Tour.

Not really: see Lemond, Greg, 1989.
BTW, did they have a TTT that year? I do remember that he had only two
teammates still in the race by the time they got to Paris.

Stage 2 - 46kmTTT. Lemond lost 56" to Fignon.

Regards!
Stephen

"Rick Roof" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Everyone knows that you have to have a strong team to win the
Tour.

I wonder if anyone told that to Greg LeMond in '89, Pedro Delgato in 1988 or
Stephen Roche in '87?

Lance's idea seems ridiculous, but the course seems incredibly
dangerous so far. It seems like something could be done to make the
race a bit safer. Crashes aren't the objective.

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 06:28:32 GMT, Still Use 531 <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I agree with Armstrong that the current Tour is broken and should be fixed.
The daily sprints in the first week are entertaining but it's not safe to
mix the sprinters with the GC'ers in these mass 40mph pelotons. Lance is
suggesting that an early time trial be used to sort out riders.

It's not clear to me in exactly what form he's suggesting that the time
trials take. Is he suggesting that the first several stages be nothing but
time trials? Or just one stage?

I think what he's after for the first 7 or 8 stages on the flats is to
somehow make it comfortable for the top GC'ers to concede the front of the
peloton to the sprinters. So we'd have the O'Grady's and McEwen's and
Boonen's working hard up front, with Armstrong, Ullrich, Hamilton, et al
riding piano in the back, no worries, just cruising along until the
mountain stages.

Of course, Messr Henri Desgranges would roll over in his grave at the very
thought of structuring the Tour to make anyone comfortable.