Armstrong's front brake?

No, Hincapie doesn't look fat at all.

Brian Phillips said:

No, Hincapie doesn't look fat at all.

ahh - the link did not work properly. Go down to the many photos of Armstrong to see the brake.

steve robertson said:

Well, this has probably been pointed out here before. WTF is this:?

grahamwatson.comupdateframesetcallOpen ↗

I don't read much into Armstrong winning that TT, the competition was not exactly top-notch - USPS
was the only D1 team who brought anything like an "A" team...

But he certainly doesn't look fat.

It's an old Shimano Dura Ace AX front brake, circa 1982 or so. I became a hardware maven back in
July of 1982 when Bicycling (almost worth reading back then) had a great comparo of 3 Italian steeds
with Campy Super Record (De Rosa, Guerciotti, Rossin) with 3 Japanese high end bikes (Fuji, 3Rensho,
Miyata). One of them was built with the Dura Ace AX group - the Miyata, I believe. They had these
brakes, which were a sort of cam centerpull. The whole Dura Ace AX component group was an attempt at
building "aerodynamic" components (I don't know about the aerodynamics of most of the components,
but the water bottles were pretty slick, and another item Lance has used from time to time). I once
made a disparaging comment about their braking power, but someone chimed in to tell me that they
worked rather well, despite their tiny pads.

Lance has used them before, back in 2000, for his time trial bike.

Michael Zaharis said:

steve robertson said:

Well, this has probably been pointed out here before. WTF is this:?

grahamwatson.comupdateframesetcallOpen ↗

I don't read much into Armstrong winning that TT, the competition was not exactly top-notch -
USPS was the only D1 team who brought anything like an "A" team...

But he certainly doesn't look fat.

It's an old Shimano Dura Ace AX front brake, circa 1982 or so. I became a hardware maven back in
July of 1982 when Bicycling (almost worth reading back then) had a great comparo of 3 Italian
steeds with Campy Super Record (De Rosa, Guerciotti, Rossin) with 3 Japanese high end bikes (Fuji,
3Rensho, Miyata). One of them was built with the Dura Ace AX group - the Miyata, I believe. They
had these brakes, which were a sort of cam centerpull. The whole Dura Ace AX component group was an
attempt at building "aerodynamic" components (I don't know about the aerodynamics of most of the
components, but the water bottles were pretty slick, and another item Lance has used from time to
time). I once made a disparaging comment about their braking power, but someone chimed in to tell
me that they worked rather well, despite their tiny pads.

Thanks - but unless they avoid some sort of aerodynamic noise at the fork, I would think that the
current Shimano (and Campy) brakes are just as aerodynamic.

I bring my bike from the early 80s out of the closet sometimes and I am amazed how I ever stopped
with those brakes. It seems like the arms are bending when I pull - of course, they worked great at
the time. The bike I first raced on in the early 70s had Mafac C-P brakes - you had to plan ahead
with those suckers!

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael Zaharis said:

It's an old Shimano Dura Ace AX front brake, circa 1982 or so.

<snipper>

Quoted message said:

They had these brakes, which were a sort of cam centerpull.

I only vaguely remember this brake; is it sort of similar to the Campy Delta?

--
tanx, Howard

"We're not laughing -at- you, we're laughing -with- you..) "But... I'm not
laughing???" Happiness

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael Zaharis said:

It's an old Shimano Dura Ace AX front brake, circa 1982 or so.

<snipper>

Quoted message said:

They had these brakes, which were a sort of cam centerpull.

I only vaguely remember this brake; is it sort of similar to the Campy Delta?

Sort of, but the cable's attached to a cam wedge that is free to float in two grooves in the brake
arms. The arms have rollers in the top that ride along the cam wedge. No connected lever arms like
the Deltas, so the mechanical advantage is a function of the wedge angle of the cam. You can pop the
cable right out the front of the holder by the adjuster and the cam comes with it, letting the brake
arms open very wide. No real quick release; I always ran mine so that I had enough adjuster threads
available to open the brakes if needed.

Interesting group; a lot of innovations in there. Loved the DD pedals, but I was one of the
fortunate few not to have mine break off... ;-)

Is Lance taking a page from Ullrich's TT positioning page and angling his TT bars downward so
slightly instead of upwards?

grahamwatson.com04algarveSt4 012000Open ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's an old Shimano Dura Ace AX front brake, circa 1982 or so.

<snipper>

Quoted message said:

They had these brakes, which were a sort of cam centerpull.

I only vaguely remember this brake; is it sort of similar to the Campy Delta?

Quoted message said:

Is Lance taking a page from Ullrich's TT positioning page and angling his TT bars downward so
slightly instead of upwards?

Zuelle was doing that long before Ullrich. netby.dkenkelt.htmOpen ↗

Dan

In article <[email hidden]>,

steve robertson said:

Michael Zaharis said:

steve robertson said:

Well, this has probably been pointed out here before. WTF is this:?

grahamwatson.comupdateframesetcallOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's an old Shimano Dura Ace AX front brake, circa 1982 or so.

...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

AX group - the Miyata, I believe. They had these brakes, which were a sort of cam centerpull.
The whole Dura Ace AX component group was an attempt at building "aerodynamic" components (I
don't know about the aerodynamics of most of the components, but the water bottles were pretty
slick, and another item Lance has used from time to time). I once made a disparaging comment
about their braking power, but someone chimed in to tell me that they worked rather well,
despite their tiny pads.

Thanks - but unless they avoid some sort of aerodynamic noise at the fork, I would think that the
current Shimano (and Campy) brakes are just as aerodynamic.

Looking at the AX brake, I noticed it seems to be completely in the shadow of the front fork, while
modern brakes seemed to stick out. A subtle point, but these TTs are won on subtleties.

More to the point, is he really going to use a conventional helmet in the TdF?

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

"Michael Zaharis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's an old Shimano Dura Ace AX front brake, circa 1982 or so. I became a hardware maven back in
July of 1982 when Bicycling (almost worth reading back then) had a great comparo of 3 Italian
steeds with Campy Super Record (De Rosa, Guerciotti, Rossin) with 3 Japanese high end bikes (Fuji,
3Rensho, Miyata). One of them was built with the Dura Ace AX group - the Miyata, I believe. They
had these brakes, which were a sort of cam centerpull. The whole Dura Ace AX component group was
an attempt at building "aerodynamic" components (I don't know about the aerodynamics of most of
the components, but the water bottles were pretty slick, and another item Lance has used from time
to time). I once made a disparaging comment about their braking power, but someone chimed in to
tell me that they worked rather well, despite their tiny

pads.

Fuji and Miyata were never "high end" bikes but San Rensho always was on a level with DeRosa.

Why not just have TT bars rise up from the fork blades? Seems like you wouldn't need a stem anymore.

Dan Connelly d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g said:

Quoted message said:

Is Lance taking a page from Ullrich's TT positioning page and angling his TT bars downward so
slightly instead of upwards?

Zuelle was doing that long before Ullrich. netby.dkenkelt.htmOpen ↗

Dan

Ryan Cousineau said:

More to the point, is he really going to use a conventional helmet in the TdF?

I'd be shocked if Giro didn't come up with something for him, even if it is nothing more than a vac-
formed aero shell over an already-designed CPSC-certified foam helmet.

Tom Kunich said:

"Michael Zaharis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Fuji and Miyata were never "high end" bikes but San Rensho always was on a level with DeRosa.

Well, Bicycling was doing a "Best of Japan" vs. "Best of Italy" comparo. The Fuji was equipped with
Suntour Superbe (Pro?), and the Miyata (which was a tank - oh, sorry, "stiff"😉 was equipped with
Shimano Dura-Ace EX, so they were targeted for the near-top end of the market. I agree, both Fuji
and Miyata were (and are) predominantly "entry level" enthusiast bikes, had some good stuff at the
top end of their product line. Definitely not the cachet of the Italian bikes, but raceable stuff.

The San Rensho bikes were pretty sweet, and Yoshi Konno could be very innovative. Too bad that he
got injured so terribly, forcing him to retire.

yellowjersey.orgkonno.htmlOpen ↗

Tom Kunich said:

"Michael Zaharis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Fuji and Miyata were never "high end" bikes but San Rensho always was on a level with DeRosa.

Well, Bicycling was doing a "Best of Japan" vs. "Best of Italy" comparo, and Fuji and Miyata were
among the best in Japan at the time. The Fuji was equipped with Suntour Superbe (Pro?), and the
Miyata (which was a tank - oh, sorry, "stiff"😉 was equipped with Shimano Dura-Ace EX, so they were
targeted for the near-top end of the market. I agree, both Fuji and Miyata were (and are)
predominantly "entry level" enthusiast bikes, but they had some good stuff at the top end of their
product line. Definitely not the cachet of the Italian bikes, but raceable stuff.

The San Rensho bikes were pretty sweet, and Yoshi Konno could be very innovative. Too bad that he
got injured so terribly, forcing him to retire.

yellowjersey.orgkonno.htmlOpen ↗

"BVM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why not just have TT bars rise up from the fork blades? Seems like you wouldn't need a stem
anymore.

The US Olympic team pursuit bikes for 1984 had just that. The stem was welded to the fork crown and
nothing came out of the top of the headtube. So the stem was vertical and in front of the headtube.

I have the bike that Dave Letteri rode that year but nowhere to post a photo.

Bruce

Quoted message said:

Dan Connelly d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g said:

Quoted message said:

Is Lance taking a page from Ullrich's TT positioning page and angling his TT bars downward so
slightly instead of upwards?

Zuelle was doing that long before Ullrich. netby.dkenkelt.htmOpen ↗

Dan

Bruce Frech said:

"BVM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why not just have TT bars rise up from the fork blades? Seems like you wouldn't need a stem
anymore.

The US Olympic team pursuit bikes for 1984 had just that. The stem was welded to the fork crown
and nothing came out of the top of the headtube. So the stem was vertical and in front of the
headtube.

I have the bike that Dave Letteri rode that year but nowhere to post a photo.

Bruce

Send it to me, if you want.

Dan

Quoted message said:

Well, Bicycling was doing a "Best of Japan" vs. "Best of Italy" comparo,

Having read the article, The Italian bikes had some flaws. The Guerciotti had some workmanship
issues. The Derosa was the least stiff of the bunch. The Campy equipment didn't shift or stop as
well as the Shimano or Suntour. The Japanese bikes performed better than expected in quality & ride
issues. The Miyata was the same as the team bike used in Europe. Bottom line is that the Italian
bikes had nothing on the Japanese bikes except for tradition ,history & a high price tag. As
predicted in the article relying on tradition & history can be your downfall.

Bruce Frech said:

"BVM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why not just have TT bars rise up from the fork blades? Seems like you wouldn't need a stem
anymore.

The US Olympic team pursuit bikes for 1984 had just that. The stem was welded to the fork crown
and nothing came out of the top of the headtube. So the stem was vertical and in front of the
headtube.

I have the bike that Dave Letteri rode that year but nowhere to post a photo.

djconnel.combrucefrechbike.htmlOpen ↗

Dan Connelly d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g said:

Bruce Frech said:

"BVM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why not just have TT bars rise up from the fork blades? Seems like you wouldn't need a stem
anymore.

The US Olympic team pursuit bikes for 1984 had just that. The stem was welded to the fork crown
and nothing came out of the top of the headtube. So the stem was vertical and in front of the
headtube.

I have the bike that Dave Letteri rode that year but nowhere to post a photo.

Quoted message said:

djconnel.combrucefrechbike.htmlOpen ↗

Looks like an IU piece of [censored] to me...