Armstrong Innocent According to Doc

Tom said:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7446.0.html

According to one of his docs, he's never seen any evidence of doping
practices on Armstrong's body. So is he still guilty or not? I

realize

Quoted message said:

that this is just one small bit of information in something that is
probably relatively huge.

Tom

I think the question here would be how often has Nave seen Armstrong
since he started working with him in 2002. If it was say once a month
that would be some help, but there aren't a whole lot of outward signs
of epo use that I know of, and needle marks last only a couple of days
generally.
It still is another medical professional in support of Lance, but he
also has some interest in seeing Lance cleared and successful. Add it
to the evidence file. Personally I go back and forth on whether he has
doped. Some of the power numbers he can generate over a long climb,
then have enough left to attack people like Pantani who we know were
doped make me ask questions. I do think Jan is clean, or at least close
to it and he's been able to be very competitive with Lance so that's in
Lance's favor. I also think that his near death experience makes him
less likely to dope, but that's offset by his incredible drive to not
fail.
I'm not sure we'll ever know, but until something definitive happens
he gets the benefit of the doubt.
Go Jan!
Bill C
Bill C

Bill C said:

I'm not sure we'll ever know, but until something definitive happens
he gets the benefit of the doubt.

He doesn't need the benefit of the doubt. The burden of proof is on
his acusers and so far they have not provided any. End of story.

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

<snip>

Some of the power numbers he can generate over a long climb,

Quoted message said:

then have enough left to attack people like Pantani who we know were
doped make me ask questions.

Remember that was a Post EPO Pantani, or at least a very toned down EPO
using Pantani at the time. It would have been interesting to see them both
go up Alp D' Huez the year that Pantani "cruised up"...in the big ring.

Dave

Bill C said:

Add it
to the evidence file. Personally I go back and forth on whether he

has

Quoted message said:

doped. Some of the power numbers he can generate over a long climb,
then have enough left to attack people like Pantani who we know were
doped make me ask questions.

Dumbass -

Pantani's record up Alpe d' Huez was set on a day when there were 2
hors categorie climbs preceding the Alpe.

Last year in the ITT up the Alpe, they were not able to come within
shouting distance of Pantani's record.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Pantani's record up Alpe d' Huez was set on a day when there were 2
hors categorie climbs preceding the Alpe.

Last year in the ITT up the Alpe, they were not able to come within
shouting distance of Pantani's record.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

But Pantani had a running start.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:J0%Id.1006$G31.240@okepread05...

Quoted message said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Pantani's record up Alpe d' Huez was set on a day when there were 2
hors categorie climbs preceding the Alpe.

Last year in the ITT up the Alpe, they were not able to come within
shouting distance of Pantani's record.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

But Pantani had a running start.

And he did not test positive.

Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:J0%Id.1006$G31.240@okepread05...

Quoted message said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Pantani's record up Alpe d' Huez was set on a day when there were 2
hors categorie climbs preceding the Alpe.

Last year in the ITT up the Alpe, they were not able to come within
shouting distance of Pantani's record.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

But Pantani had a running start.

And he did not test positive.

And Lance did not get a "running start", beat Pantani's time, or test
positive either. Only logical conclusiong..... Lance is on EPO and
Steroids.

Oh, and morphine too.

Musashi

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Tom said:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7446.0.html

According to one of his docs, he's never seen any evidence of doping
practices on Armstrong's body. So is he still guilty or not? I

realize

Quoted message said:

that this is just one small bit of information in something that is
probably relatively huge.

I think the question here would be how often has Nave seen Armstrong
since he started working with him in 2002.

My opinion is that if Armstrong was going to dope he'd have done it BEFORE
'97 when he was diagnosed. My guess is that like every other cancer patient
that I've ever known, he is probably psychologically traumatized with the
very idea of taking any sort of drugs.

What sort of drugs would you expect Armstrong to take that a doctor couldn't
pick up on very rapidly? If he were using EPO there are a much high
percentage of un-matured red blood cells in the blood stream. That might not
be enough for the WADA test to guarantee a positive but it would sure as
hell signal it to a competent doctor. Would you suppose Postal and Armstrong
to have incompetent physicians?

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

My opinion is that if Armstrong was going to dope he'd have done it BEFORE
'97 when he was diagnosed. My guess is that like every other cancer
patient that I've ever known, he is probably psychologically traumatized
with the very idea of taking any sort of drugs.

What sort of drugs would you expect Armstrong to take that a doctor
couldn't pick up on very rapidly? If he were using EPO there are a much
high percentage of un-matured red blood cells in the blood stream. That
might not be enough for the WADA test to guarantee a positive but it would
sure as hell signal it to a competent doctor. Would you suppose Postal and
Armstrong to have incompetent physicians?

The following are not accusations against Armstrong, but observations in
general:

How many doctors smoke? How many people with emphysema or lung cancer still
smoke? Why aren't they psychologically traumatized?

Re: EPO, if someone is microdosing there wouldn't be a high percentage of
unmatured rbc's, would there?

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:aQhJd.1623$G31.1110@okepread05...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

My opinion is that if Armstrong was going to dope he'd have done it
BEFORE '97 when he was diagnosed. My guess is that like every other
cancer patient that I've ever known, he is probably psychologically
traumatized with the very idea of taking any sort of drugs.

What sort of drugs would you expect Armstrong to take that a doctor
couldn't pick up on very rapidly? If he were using EPO there are a much
high percentage of un-matured red blood cells in the blood stream. That
might not be enough for the WADA test to guarantee a positive but it
would sure as hell signal it to a competent doctor. Would you suppose
Postal and Armstrong to have incompetent physicians?

The following are not accusations against Armstrong, but observations in
general:

How many doctors smoke? How many people with emphysema or lung cancer
still smoke? Why aren't they psychologically traumatized?

Re: EPO, if someone is microdosing there wouldn't be a high percentage of
unmatured rbc's, would there?

Smoking is an addiction. It is one of the most addicting of addictions if
you need to know. Bicycle racing isn't nearly as addictive. Even if you've
won the Tour de France four times and are going for a fifth.

Doctors start smoking because they have too much information - smoking is a
[censored] shoot, some are effected by it but most aren't. I know that modern
medicine wants to convince you that one cigarette will end your life but the
truth is that the percentage who contract illness from smoking is
significant but small.

If you "microdose" with EPO what do you hope to achieve? If you mean taking
lower doses meant to keep your hematocrit below the critical level, I would
think that you couldn't achieve much. Moreover, it isn't clear that you
wouldn't have the same sort of side effects as heavier doses over time. What
it adds up to is forcing your body to produce more red blood cells than it
naturally developes.

Doping follows the olden rule - if some's good more's better and too much is
just right.