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Armstrong: Giro vs. Vuelta

Krusty · 2004-07-22T21:43:52+00:00

If he were to decide to make an attempt to make a double next year, which would he be more likely to win? I've been following cycling on and off since 92, but up until recently its been next to impossible to watch the Giro and Vuelta on TV (at least where I'm from in the States). So I haven't really been able to make an informed opinion about the level of competition in those events. That said, from what I've gathered recently...and this statement is based entirely on my impressions, not fact...the level of competition (that is to say the quality of competetors) seems to be higher at the Giro. Also, it seems that running the Giro is more likely to have an adverse effect on a racer going into the Tour since it is run first. So, if Lance were to decide to make such an attempt, would you agree that a running the Tour + Vuelta would be more likely to result in success than a Tour + Giro attempt? Comments?

Started by Krusty · 22 July 2004 · Last activity 25 July 2004 · 19 posts · 1,147 views

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Original section: Road Cycling
Published: 22 July 2004
Last activity: 25 July 2004
Original author: Krusty
Posts: 19
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 1,147
Views / 30 days: 0

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Original post
Krusty
Archived post

22 July 2004, 21:43 UTC #1

If he were to decide to make an attempt to make a double next year,
which would he be more likely to win?
I've been following cycling on and off since 92, but up until recently
its been next to impossible to watch the Giro and Vuelta on TV (at
least where I'm from in the States). So I haven't really been able to
make an informed opinion about the level of competition in those
events.
That said, from what I've gathered recently...and this statement is
based entirely on my impressions, not fact...the level of competition
(that is to say the quality of competetors) seems to be higher at the
Giro. Also, it seems that running the Giro is more likely to have an
adverse effect on a racer going into the Tour since it is run first.
So, if Lance were to decide to make such an attempt, would you agree
that a running the Tour + Vuelta would be more likely to result in
success than a Tour + Giro attempt?
Comments?

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patch70
Archived post

22 July 2004, 21:55 UTC #2

He has talked a bit about wanting to ride the Giro before he retires.
Also, the Tour/Giro double is held in higher regard than the Tour/Vuelta double. Either would be impressive though.

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Morten Reippuert Knudsen
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23 July 2004, 00:31 UTC #3

Krusty said:
If he were to decide to make an attempt to make a double next year,
which would he be more likely to win?
it's imposible to win both the Giro and TDF today after the Giro
moved.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
PowerMac G5: 1.6GHz, 1.25GB RAM, 80GB Disk, 8x DVD+/-RW, Bluetooth mus
+ tastatur, FX5200 Ultra, iSight, eyeTV200 & Lacie Photon18Vision (TFT).

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steve
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23 July 2004, 01:03 UTC #4

Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:
Quoted message said:
If he were to decide to make an attempt to make a double next year,
which would he be more likely to win?
it's imposible to win both the Giro and TDF today after the Giro
moved.
Didnt Pantani do just that?
If I only had a memory.
steve
--
"A man was severely injured today in the Knutsford area."
Benny Hill

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lazysegall
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23 July 2004, 03:11 UTC #5

quote='Morten Reippuert Knudsen'Krusty said:
If he were to decide to make an attempt to make a double next year,
which would he be more likely to win?
it's imposible to win both the Giro and TDF today after the Giro
moved.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
PowerMac G5: 1.6GHz, 1.25GB RAM, 80GB Disk, 8x DVD+/-RW, Bluetooth mus
+ tastatur, FX5200 Ultra, iSight, eyeTV200 & Lacie Photon18Vision (TFT).[/QUOTE]
The Vuelta moved. Is that what you mean? I find the chances of Lance racing the Vuelta very unlikely for a few reasons. First, the Vuelta would extend Lance's season by about 2 months and he has never been willing to do it past july. Two, there has been talk of Lance racing the Giro and he even rode one of the climbs a day or so before the Giro went through. Third, Lance has never shown any respect for the Vuelta. Four USPS will always have spanish climbers who want to win the Vuelta and Lance won't fight them.

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Morten Reippuert Knudsen
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23 July 2004, 10:09 UTC #6

lazysegall said:
Morten Reippuert Knudsen Wrote:
The Vuelta moved. Is that what you mean?
both races moved in 95. 94 was also the last year for Indurain to race
both. In 95 and 96 Rominger and Berzin didn't do well in TDF because
the Giro and the TDF was to close.
Today the Giro is to Close to TDF. Why do u think Simoni and other Italian
GC riders continiously cant compete in TDF?
Basso has been the exceptioon because he doest ride the Giro.
This year Simoni even tried to peak a littele later in order to keep
his form until TDF which is why he didn't win the Giro - however the
result was that he hasen't been in form in either races.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
PowerMac G5: 1.6GHz, 1.25GB RAM, 80GB Disk, 8x DVD+/-RW, Bluetooth mus
+ tastatur, FX5200 Ultra, iSight, eyeTV200 & Lacie Photon18Vision (TFT).

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Morten Reippuert Knudsen
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23 July 2004, 10:11 UTC #7

steve said:
Didnt Pantani do just that?
He was the exeption but today we know that he used iligal substances -
besides the 98 TDF was amputated, a lot of stages was neutralized and
1/3 of the teams withdrew.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
PowerMac G5: 1.6GHz, 1.25GB RAM, 80GB Disk, 8x DVD+/-RW, Bluetooth mus
+ tastatur, FX5200 Ultra, iSight, eyeTV200 & Lacie Photon18Vision (TFT).

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John Forrest Tomlinson
Archived post

23 July 2004, 11:02 UTC #8

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 12:11:34 +0200, Morten Reippuert
Knudsen said:
steve said:
Didnt Pantani do just that?
He was the exeption but today we know that he used iligal substances -
besides the 98 TDF was amputated, a lot of stages was neutralized and
1/3 of the teams withdrew.
You know you can't win two grand tours on mineral water.
JT

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Davide Tosi
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23 July 2004, 16:21 UTC #9

Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:
lazysegall said:
Morten Reippuert Knudsen Wrote:
The Vuelta moved. Is that what you mean?
both races moved in 95. 94 was also the last year for Indurain to race
both. In 95 and 96 Rominger and Berzin didn't do well in TDF because
the Giro and the TDF was to close.
Today the Giro is to Close to TDF.
????
In fact the Giro did move, but just the other way around. After the Vuelta
had moved to September, the Giro had been anticipated by about 3 weeks.
Until '94 the Giro started at the end of May and ended in mid June. Now the
Giro starts in early May and ends at the end of the same month.
Quoted message said:
Why do u think Simoni and other Italian
GC riders continiously cant compete in TDF?
That's because the Giro's way of racing and its kind of climb fits them
much better. Steeper climb in the Giro favour very light riders like Gibo.
Slow pace in flats and sudden acceleration in the climbs favour climbers
over more all-around riders.
Personally I'm convinced that for a guy like Ullrich, who has big problems
in gaining form, partecipating at the Giro with GC ambitions would really
improve his Tour results.

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Morten Reippuert Knudsen
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23 July 2004, 18:23 UTC #10

Davide Tosi said:
In fact the Giro did move, but just the other way around. After the Vuelta
had moved to September, the Giro had been anticipated by about 3 weeks.
Until '94 the Giro started at the end of May and ended in mid June. Now the
Giro starts in early May and ends at the end of the same month.
ok - i just remember that it moved, and besides pantani in 98 there
no-one has been able to do well in both races.
Quoted message said:
Personally I'm convinced that for a guy like Ullrich, who has big problems
in gaining form, partecipating at the Giro with GC ambitions would really
improve his Tour results.
you'd have to move chistmas, easter and put a chain arround all
refrigerators in Berlin durring the winther as well ;-)
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
PowerMac G5: 1.6GHz, 1.25GB RAM, 80GB Disk, 8x DVD+/-RW, Bluetooth mus
+ tastatur, FX5200 Ultra, iSight, eyeTV200 & Lacie Photon18Vision (TFT).

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Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Archived post

23 July 2004, 18:24 UTC #11

John Forrest Tomlinson said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Didnt Pantani do just that?
He was the exeption but today we know that he used iligal substances -
besides the 98 TDF was amputated, a lot of stages was neutralized and
1/3 of the teams withdrew.
Quoted message said:
You know you can't win two grand tours on mineral water.
apperantly you can't win one... :-P
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
PowerMac G5: 1.6GHz, 1.25GB RAM, 80GB Disk, 8x DVD+/-RW, Bluetooth mus
+ tastatur, FX5200 Ultra, iSight, eyeTV200 & Lacie Photon18Vision (TFT).

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Mikko J Virtanen
Archived post

23 July 2004, 19:31 UTC #12

Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:
Quoted message said:
You know you can't win two grand tours on mineral water.

apperantly you can't win one... :-P
I thought winning youth competition in one GT has something to do with
mineral water...
MJ;
--
..signature necesse est

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John Forrest Tomlinson
Archived post

23 July 2004, 19:55 UTC #13

lazysegall <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
he has never been
willing to do it past july.
Has never? Hmmm, how did he manage to get 4th in the Vuelta, win a
world title and get another top 10 in a world title?
JT

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lazysegall
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23 July 2004, 21:53 UTC #14

John Forrest Tomlinson said:
lazysegall <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
he has never been
willing to do it past july.
Has never? Hmmm, how did he manage to get 4th in the Vuelta, win a
world title and get another top 10 in a world title?
JT
I meant the post cancer uber lance. The only time when he raced seriously past the tour was in 2000 for the Olympics and he admits to being a few pounds too heavy for that race.

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John Forrest Tomlinson
Archived post

23 July 2004, 22:34 UTC #15

lazysegall said:

I meant the post cancer uber lance.
He rode the Tour of Spain after cancer the season before he won a Tour
de France.
JT

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Davide Tosi
Archived post

24 July 2004, 12:05 UTC #16

Mikko J Virtanen said:
Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:
Quoted message said:
You know you can't win two grand tours on mineral water.

apperantly you can't win one... :-P
I thought winning youth competition in one GT has something to do with
mineral water...
Winning AmstelGR, Flèche Wallonne and L-B-L has something to do with
mineral water (hint: what does the Gerolsteiner company sell?)

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Mikko J Virtanen
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24 July 2004, 16:00 UTC #17

(Davide Tosi) said:
Winning AmstelGR, Flèche Wallonne and L-B-L has something to do with
mineral water (hint: what does the Gerolsteiner company sell?)
Oh! I thought it was (non-alcoholic) beer. Had to check
gerolsteiner.de. Now I (think I) know.
MJ;
--
..signature necesse est

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Davide Tosi
Archived post

24 July 2004, 20:35 UTC #18

Mikko J Virtanen said:
(Davide Tosi) said:
Winning AmstelGR, Flèche Wallonne and L-B-L has something to do with
mineral water (hint: what does the Gerolsteiner company sell?)
Oh! I thought it was (non-alcoholic) beer. Had to check
gerolsteiner.de. Now I (think I) know.
The analcoholic beer sponsor was Buckler, which financed the main Dutch
team somewhere in between Panasonic and Rabobank.

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Dieter Buerssner
Archived post

25 July 2004, 10:49 UTC #19

Mikko J Virtanen said:
(Davide Tosi) said:
Winning AmstelGR, Flèche Wallonne and L-B-L has something to do with
mineral water (hint: what does the Gerolsteiner company sell?)
Oh! I thought it was (non-alcoholic) beer. Had to check
gerolsteiner.de. Now I (think I) know.
You probably thought of Gerstel. This is a rather well known brand of non-
alcoholic beer in Germany.
Dieter

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