Armstrong doped?

musette said:

Some people who were in the room during the alleged incident were the DOCTORS whom Ms. Andreu apparently said LA made the confession to, including Dr. Nichols.

"In a sworn affidavit, Dr. Craig Nichols said he and other medical personnel visited with Armstrong that day about his medical history before he started chemotherapy. Nichols was one of doctors treating Armstrong at Indiana University Medical Center. He is now the chair of hematology-oncology at Oregon Health and Sciences University. "Lance Armstrong never admitted, suggested or indicated that he has ever taken performance-enhancing drugs. Had this been disclosed to me, I would have recorded it, or been aware of it, as a pertinent aspect of Lance Armstrong's past medical history as I always do," Nichols said. "Had I been present at any such 'confession,' I would most certainly have vividly recalled the fact," Nichols said. "I would have recorded such a confession as a matter of form, as indeed, would have my colleagues. None was recorded."

sports.yahoo.comnews; ylt=AshQuyomm.I. p4h08mw06B.grcFOpen ↗

"There were probably 10 people in the room. Betsy was apparently the only one that recalls this alleged incident," Herman said. (Hernan is LA's attorney)

Also, do people think LA would be so stupid as to admit the alleged statement in front of people other than his doctors?

Interesting article (i mean that seriously). They only problem is Dr. Craig Nichols works for OHSU and ohsuhealth.comprofile.cfmOpen ↗

And well... they are getting lots of money from LAF:

ohsu.eduarmstrong.cfmOpen ↗

Like i said before would be interesting to get the courts dossier. But i have to admit the Lemond story indicates a lot but doesn't proof anything...

Man, the number of former close friends that hate Saint Lance enough to allege that he doped under oath is getting rather long. Now it includes Frankie Andreau.

I'll say this: if Lance isn't a doper, he sure must be a first-class [censored] to [censored] this many people off to the point of perjury.

The doctors and their MEDICAL RECORDS support LA did not make the assertion Ms. Andreu claims he did.

More reasons Ms. Andreu's version of events just doesn't hold water.

5. Medical Records Show LA was Asked this Question on Various Occasions During His Treatment and LA did not Say He Doped.

"Herman [LA's lawyer] said he has 280 pages of medical records from Indiana University Medical Center, where Armstrong was treated for his cancer, that had spread to his brain, that refute the allegations. Armstrong's doctors repeatedly asked him during his treatment about substances he may have taken and Armstrong answered only that he occasionally drank beer, Herman said."

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news;_ylt=AshQuyomm.I._p4h08mw06B.grcF?slug=ap-armstrong-doping&prov=ap&type=lgns

This is very relevant. If, as Ms. Andreu alleges, LA was so open about having taken banned substances in a group of ten people, why didn't he provide the same information when he was asked on other occasions by medical people about whether he had taken substances?

musette said:

The doctors and their MEDICAL RECORDS support LA did not make the assertion Ms. Andreu claims he did.

More reasons Ms. Andreu's version of events just doesn't hold water.

5. Medical Records Show LA was Asked this Question on Various Occasions During His Treatment and LA did not Say He Doped.

"Herman [LA's lawyer] said he has 280 pages of medical records from Indiana University Medical Center, where Armstrong was treated for his cancer, that had spread to his brain, that refute the allegations. Armstrong's doctors repeatedly asked him during his treatment about substances he may have taken and Armstrong answered only that he occasionally drank beer, Herman said."

sports.yahoo.comnews; ylt=AshQuyomm.I. p4h08mw06B.grcFOpen ↗

This is very relevant. If, as Ms. Andreu alleges, LA was so open about having taken banned substances in a group of ten people, why didn't he provide the same information when he was asked on other occasions by medical people about whether he had taken substances?

The doctor is working for an institution which is funded by Armstrong (which is very relevant as well).

The contemporaneous notes and medical records confirm LA's position.

Also, LAF funds many cancer-related areas. To say that a doctor, who is subject to ethical and professional requirements, would risk perjury by providing a sworn statement based on a small amount of funding relative to an institution's total funding is just bizarre.

Has anybody asked why it is apparently only the Andreus that are stating this, if there were ten people in the room and some were doctors whose notes are completely silent on this issue? A doctor would be derelict in his professional obligations if a patient had admitted to extensive drug use and the doctor had not recorded it. Separately from the contemporaneous notes, the doctor doesn't remember LA having told him that and that is the type of thing that, if it did occur, the doctor said he would "vividly" recall.

A history of as extensive drug use as Ms. Andreu contends was mentioned by LA would also be potentially relevant to the treatment of LA and assisting him to recover. So, not including that in contemporaneous notes would have been a meaningful omission and would be abnormal practice in the medical profession.

tcklyde said:

Man, the number of former close friends that hate Saint Lance enough to allege that he doped under oath is getting rather long. Now it includes Frankie Andreau.

I'll say this: if Lance isn't a doper, he sure must be a first-class [censored] to [censored] this many people off to the point of perjury.

Well Lance is certainly the first-class ******* to many of people, if he doped, I think we all have our opinions.

Personally, I have had enough of hearing it. Lance has to answer to his own conscience, since he is now RETIRED!!!. I am also tired of the newspaper who seemsto have held on to this story till near TDF time. I know the paper is out to sell papers, and obviously this will sell a ton of them, but I imagine the ASO can't be excited about this. Cycling has been under attack with the Saiz affair, and now just days before the start of the Tour, this has come out.

I wish we could leave the Armstrong discussion out till after the Tour, and lets give credit and coverage to the people who deserve it now, the Bassos, Ullrichs, Vinos, Boonen, and all the other 176 riders in the tour. Apparently, between Bruyneel, Le Monde, and other sources, i guess this wont happen.

Jealousy is a ugly emotion....The Dr. says no admition...end of story

cyclingheroes said:

They only problem is Dr. Craig Nichols works for OHSU and ohsuhealth.comprofile.cfmOpen ↗.

Do you even know how broad the OHSU network is?

http://www.ohsuhealth.com/about/facts_figures.cfm

OHSU Hospital and clinics - 445,800
OHSU dental clinics - 53,601

They have over 445 thousand separate institutions and clinics that are affiliated with OHSU. Your argument about undue influence based on funding of an organization that has almost 1/2 a million CLINICS and HOSPITALS (and obviously more than 1/2 million doctors, since each clinic and hospital has multiple doctors) doesn't withstand scrutiny.

musette said:

The contemporaneous notes and medical records confirm LA's position.

Also, LAF funds many cancer-related areas. To say that a doctor, who is subject to ethical and professional requirements, would risk perjury by providing a sworn statement based on a small amount of funding relative to an institution's total funding is just bizarre.

And why should numbers of freinds, former team mates and others risk perjury? They don't get a million bucks for it... The institution where the doctor works for does... And yes i know LAF funds more institutions as he funded the UCI... you know the guys that should tackle doping... Somehow Lance funded some people who could be important to cover up something... It's all speculation yes, but there are more and more in the field he was working in who speak out, i'll bet Frankie wasn't the last one...

musette said:

Do you even know how broad the OHSU network is?

ohsuhealth.comfacts figures.cfmOpen ↗

OHSU Hospital and clinics - 445,800
OHSU dental clinics - 53,601

They have over 445 thousand separate institutions and clinics that are affiliated with OHSU. Your argument about undue influence based on funding of an organization that has almost 1/2 a million CLINICS and HOSPITALS (and obviously more than 1/2 million doctors, since each clinic and hospital has multiple doctors) doesn't withstand scrutiny.

Yeah i know, i was on the site (i published the link remember?), and now you tell me that it's just a coincedence and Lance didn't know he was funding the institution where the doctor works who treated his own cancer..

cyclingheroes said:

And well... they are getting lots of money from LAF:

ohsu.eduarmstrong.cfmOpen ↗

You should have mentioned that the $1M LAF gave did not go to Dr Nichols. Here is the breakdown, from the article you cited itself:

$543,808 to establish an Adolescent and Young Adult (AYA) oncology program.

$247,144 to Jeri S. Janowsky, Ph.D., for a study on prostate cancer treatment and neuro-cognitive impact on survivorship.

$245,296 to Kerri M. Winters, Ph.D., for a randomized trial study examining POWIR (Promote Optimum Health with Impact and Resistance Exercise) exercise during treatment for prostate cancer.

That LAF would give is normal. LAF is focused on CANCER research, obviously.

Your argument that Nichols benefits from OSHU getting funding is like saying my doctor, who is a member of Oxford health care organization's network, is benefitting when Oxford gets money. I undrestand Oxford is for-profit, but this just doesn't make sense.

Also, that funding assertion doesn't address the key point that all medical records of LA and contemporaneous doctor's notes support LA's statement.

Frankie Andreu is not viewed positively within USPS/DC. This was documented in some book I read, saying that, when domestiques are talked about, Eki is the person that people are supposed to aspire towards, and the "bad seed" stories include the Frankie Andreu story. 😉 So, Andreu(s) may be unhappy about the way they were treated by USPS/LA.

musette said:

You should have mentioned that the $1M LAF gave did not go to Dr Nichols.

I did, i wrote:

"They only problem is Dr. Craig Nichols works for OHSU and ohsuhealth.comp...254AAF345D2C9FCOpen ↗

And well... they are getting lots of money from LAF:

ohsu.eduarmstrong.cfmOpen ↗"

I would suggest: Before you say anything read the postings (and not just 1)😄

I correct myself.

"How many clinics does OHSU have?
OHSU has nine primary care clinics and over 150 specialty clinics in Oregon. Use the Find a Doctor directory on this Web site to locate a doctor or clinic near you."

The number quoted of around 450K is the patients, I think (?).

It would be a greater surprise to me if Armstrong hadn't doped in those years. He won many races in a great manner in an era in which all cyclists were taking at least EPO and also growth hormone I think.

limerickman said:

Mr Armstrong published two books in which he claimed to have never, ever taken PED's.

Either his statement in his book was a lie OR he lied to his doctors on Oct 28th 1996.

Given that his life was in danger I think we can work out which is the truth and which was (another) lie.

Or Mrs. Andreu's was lying... Given that the doctor and everyone else in the room has denied her claim, I think an impartial person can work out who's lying here.

wineandkeyz said:

Or Mrs. Andreu's was lying... Given that the doctor and everyone else in the room has denied her claim, I think an impartial person can work out who's lying here.

The exact words of the Oakley representative where that she didn't hear it and Frankie Andreu (fall 2005) said even before mrs Andreu (January 2006) that Lance said that. And than there is the phone call between the Oakley representative and Greg Lemond (which was taped and in possesion of the court). We will probebly never know who was lying....

tcklyde said:

I'll say this: if Lance isn't a doper, he sure must be a first-class [censored] to [censored] this many people off to the point of perjury.

Ding. Ding. Ding.

+1

wineandkeyz said:

Or Mrs. Andreu's was lying... Given that the doctor and everyone else in the room has denied her claim, I think an impartial person can work out who's lying here.

All the [censored] about OHSU is way off the mark.
Craig Nichols worked aat Indiana but never mind.
A patient's history and treatment is movable cf. HIPPA.
Nichols would not and could not go out on a limb if this history were ever noted. And BTW Nichols and the neurosurgeon already provided statements DURING the 99 TdF to this effect that he wasnt on any supermeds post cancer.

And the neurosurgeon is IN several of WOrld Cycling NBC and other interviews stating it was was one of the most remarkable comebacks ever. SO both the neurosurgeon and Craig Nichols one of the most famous cancer researchers anywhere who does NOT NEED L Arsmtrong, have already come out and said he is clean.

Lets move on.

Here is a further discussion by velonews:

velonews.com10088.0.htmlOpen ↗

They neglect to mention this recording of third witness. The interesting thing is that the scope of the proceedings were as to whether the insurance company should the promised sum for the tour de france win. Thus it was not a proceeding on whether Armstrong doped or not.

cyclingheroes said:

The exact words of the Oakley representative where that she didn't hear it and Frankie Andreu (fall 2005) said even before mrs Andreu (January 2006) that Lance said that. And than there is the phone call between the Oakley representative and Greg Lemond (which was taped and in possesion of the court). We will probebly never know who was lying....