Road Cycling · Public discussion

Armstrong and Ferrari

Started by Sierraman · · Last activity · 53 posts · 3,194 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
Road Cycling
Published
3 March 2004
Last activity
7 March 2004
Original author
Sierraman
Posts
53
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
3,194
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 53
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Interesting article about Armstrong potential as a role model in the drug war, but with a touch
    of Cynicism.

    Armstrong has turned into an icon, a fairy-tale hero who beat cancer and then subdued the Alps. His
    connections to Italian doctor and trainer Michele Ferrari don't square with the fairy tale, so they
    are routinely overlooked.

    Ferrari is on trial in Italy, charged with illegally administering drugs to cyclists there. His work
    with Armstrong was revealed in the London Sunday Times almost three years ago. The doctor already
    had been charged at the time. His trial has lasted an eternity, hinting at the complexities. The
    latest delay was called to allow the defense to gather more expert testimony.

    How often do we read Ferrari's name in stories about Armstrong?

    sfgate.comarticle.cgi

    B-

  2. "Sierraman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Interesting article about Armstrong potential as a role model in the drug war, but with a touch of
    Cynicism.

    Armstrong has turned into an icon, a fairy-tale hero who beat cancer and then subdued the Alps.
    His connections to Italian doctor and trainer


    Michele

    Quoted message said:

    Ferrari don't square with the fairy tale, so they are routinely


    overlooked.

    Quoted message said:


    Ferrari is on trial in Italy, charged with illegally administering drugs


    to

    Quoted message said:

    cyclists there. His work with Armstrong was revealed in the London Sunday Times almost three years
    ago. The doctor already had been charged at the time. His trial has lasted an eternity, hinting at
    the complexities. The latest delay was called to allow the defense to gather more expert
    testimony.

    How often do we read Ferrari's name in stories about Armstrong?


    sfgate.comarticle.cgi

    Quoted message said:


    B-

    Get ready for the attack of the Krispy Tifosi! I wonder if Kristin will have a ten year gag order as
    part of her settlement like David Bowie's ex had in hers.

  3. My response, which is nitpicking facts, and doesn't address the drug issue
    at all; just so Lafferty can't call me one of the "Lance tifosi":

    -----

    Ms. Knapp --

    Regarding your recent article on sfgate.com about drugs in sport and Lance Armstrong:

    Point of fact ... You wrote: "Still, why ask Armstrong to the White House for a summit aimed at
    sports officials?

    "First, he works for a government-backed monopoly. The U.S. Postal Service sponsors Armstrong's
    team, despite operating at a deficit steeper than any mountain he climbs."

    Actually, Lance Armstrong works for Tailwind Sports (tailwindsports.comtailwindsports.com), a sports
    marketing company owned by Thom Weisel (of San Francisco's own Thomas Weisel Partners). Tailwind
    Sports owns and operates the cycling team, as well as the T-Mobile International cycling race,
    formerly known as the San Francisco Grand Prix.

    The US Postal Service is the title sponsor of the team, which means that they are paying Tailwind
    Sports to advertise the Postal Service. The team is also sponsored to one extent or another by Berry
    Floor (a Belgian laminate flooring manufacturer, similar to Pergo), Trek bicycles, Visa, Suburu,
    Thomas Weisel Partners, AMD (Advanced Micro Devices), Dial Corporation (the soap manufacturers) and
    Coca-Cola and a host of cycling related companies.

    Lance Armstrong has personal sponsorship from Nike, Bristol Myers Squibb, and Oakley.

    Of all the above-listed companies, the only one other than Tailwind Sports which has "employed"
    Armstrong was Oakley, who made him an employee so he would be covered under their benefits plan when
    he was undergoing treatment for testicular cancer.

    I don't know if he is still listed as an employee, or if he has gone back to his independent
    contractor status with them.

    Armstrong is definitely NOT a government employee and does not work for the Postal Service.

    On another note:

    The United States Postal Service had $63.9 billion in operating expenses in 2003 (Source:
    usps.comhighlights.htm). The $4-6 million (estimated) they spend on
    the cycling team is a negligible part of their overall operating expenses, and a very small part of
    their estimated $160-200 million annual advertising budget.

    Personally, I think their advertising money is better spent on sponsoring a cycling team than on
    running television commercials during other sporting events ... A 30-second spot during the Super
    Bowl costs what, about $2 million?

    Their sponsorship of the cycling team generates exposure throughout the entire year; peaking during
    July ... Lance wins the Tour (the only bike race most Americans even know about), and "USPS" is on
    everyone's lips for weeks.

    And it's worked ... I certainly ship more packages via the USPS now, rather than via UPS or Fed-Ex
    ... They support my sport, and I support them in return.

    Kindest regards,

    Steven L. Sheffield (a former City of San Francisco resident, currently residing in Utah)

    Sierraman said:

    Interesting article about Armstrong potential as a role model in the drug war, but with a touch of
    Cynicism.

    Armstrong has turned into an icon, a fairy-tale hero who beat cancer and then subdued the Alps.
    His connections to Italian doctor and trainer Michele Ferrari don't square with the fairy tale, so
    they are routinely overlooked.

    Ferrari is on trial in Italy, charged with illegally administering drugs to cyclists there. His
    work with Armstrong was revealed in the London Sunday Times almost three years ago. The doctor
    already had been charged at the time. His trial has lasted an eternity, hinting at the
    complexities. The latest delay was called to allow the defense to gather more expert testimony.

    How often do we read Ferrari's name in stories about Armstrong?

    sfgate.comarticle.cgi

    B-

    --
    Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum
    pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti
    ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-ewe
    dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash

  4. Dear Nitpicker,

    Your points are technically correct. However, I ship things USPS priority not because of USPS
    Dingleberry Floor, but because it's cheaper and as fast, or faster, than the other shippers.
    It's probably the same reason Excel Sports uses USPS Priority as their normal shipper.

    I think the author has a hell of a lot of nerve singling out cycling with all of its deaths.
    These are all just undiagnosed, congenital heart defects causing untimely tragedy. And just
    because Armstrong was in contact with Ferrari on an almost daily basis (as stated by Armstrong
    himself) doesn't mean that he was using Ferrari to juice. Hell, Ferrari was just supplementing
    the CTS advice Armstrong was getting from Chris C. Probably like getting a second medical
    opinion. Where there's smoke, there isn't always fire.

    All the best, Brian

    "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    My response, which is nitpicking facts, and doesn't address the drug issue at all; just so
    Lafferty can't call me one of the "Lance tifosi":

    -----

    Ms. Knapp --

    Regarding your recent article on sfgate.com about drugs in sport and Lance Armstrong:

    Point of fact ... You wrote: "Still, why ask Armstrong to the White House for a summit aimed at
    sports officials?

    "First, he works for a government-backed monopoly. The U.S. Postal Service sponsors Armstrong's
    team, despite operating at a deficit steeper than any mountain he climbs."

    Actually, Lance Armstrong works for Tailwind Sports (tailwindsports.comtailwindsports.com), a sports
    marketing company owned by Thom Weisel (of San Francisco's own Thomas Weisel Partners). Tailwind
    Sports owns and operates the cycling team, as well as the T-Mobile International cycling race,
    formerly known as the San Francisco Grand Prix.

    The US Postal Service is the title sponsor of the team, which means that they are paying Tailwind
    Sports to advertise the Postal Service. The team is also sponsored to one extent or another by
    Berry Floor (a Belgian laminate flooring manufacturer, similar to Pergo), Trek bicycles, Visa,
    Suburu, Thomas Weisel Partners, AMD (Advanced Micro Devices), Dial Corporation (the soap
    manufacturers) and Coca-Cola and a host of cycling related companies.

    Lance Armstrong has personal sponsorship from Nike, Bristol Myers Squibb, and Oakley.

    Of all the above-listed companies, the only one other than Tailwind Sports which has "employed"
    Armstrong was Oakley, who made him an employee so he would be covered under their benefits plan
    when he was undergoing


    treatment

    Quoted message said:

    for testicular cancer.

    I don't know if he is still listed as an employee, or if he has gone back


    to

    Quoted message said:

    his independent contractor status with them.

    Armstrong is definitely NOT a government employee and does not work for


    the

    Quoted message said:

    Postal Service.

    On another note:

    The United States Postal Service had $63.9 billion in operating expenses


    in

    Quoted message said:

    2003 (Source: usps.comhighlights.htm).


    The

    Quoted message said:

    $4-6 million (estimated) they spend on the cycling team is a negligible


    part

    Quoted message said:

    of their overall operating expenses, and a very small part of their estimated $160-200 million
    annual advertising budget.

    Personally, I think their advertising money is better spent on sponsoring


    a

    Quoted message said:

    cycling team than on running television commercials during other sporting events ... A 30-second
    spot during the Super Bowl costs what, about $2 million?

    Their sponsorship of the cycling team generates exposure throughout the entire year; peaking
    during July ... Lance wins the Tour (the only bike


    race

    Quoted message said:

    most Americans even know about), and "USPS" is on everyone's lips for


    weeks.

    Quoted message said:


    And it's worked ... I certainly ship more packages via the USPS now,


    rather

    Quoted message said:

    than via UPS or Fed-Ex ... They support my sport, and I support them in return.

    Kindest regards,

    Steven L. Sheffield (a former City of San Francisco resident, currently residing in Utah)

    Sierraman said:

    Interesting article about Armstrong potential as a role model in the


    drug

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    war, but with a touch of Cynicism.

    Armstrong has turned into an icon, a fairy-tale hero who beat cancer and then subdued the Alps.
    His connections to Italian doctor and trainer


    Michele

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Ferrari don't square with the fairy tale, so they are routinely


    overlooked.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Ferrari is on trial in Italy, charged with illegally administering drugs


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    cyclists there. His work with Armstrong was revealed in the London


    Sunday

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Times almost three years ago. The doctor already had been charged at the time. His trial has
    lasted an eternity, hinting at the complexities. The latest delay was called to allow the
    defense to gather more expert testimony.

    How often do we read Ferrari's name in stories about Armstrong?


    sfgate.comarticle.cgi

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    B-

    --
    Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
    bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee
    why you ti ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-
    yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash

  5. "Sierraman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Interesting article about Armstrong potential as a role model in the drug war, but with a touch of
    Cynicism.

    Armstrong has turned into an icon, a fairy-tale hero who beat cancer and then subdued the Alps.
    His connections to Italian doctor and trainer Michele Ferrari don't square with the fairy tale, so
    they are routinely overlooked.

    Ferrari is on trial in Italy, charged with illegally administering drugs to cyclists there. His
    work with Armstrong was revealed in the London Sunday Times almost three years ago. The doctor
    already had been charged at the time. His trial has lasted an eternity, hinting at the
    complexities. The latest delay was called to allow the defense to gather more expert testimony.

    How often do we read Ferrari's name in stories about Armstrong?

    sfgate.comarticle.cgi

    B-

    As far as I know and or have read in the past, Armstrong has never denied working with Ferrari in
    the past, and I believe he consults with him now, or has in the recent past. I think is much adieu
    about nothing once again. I'm sure the Armstrong pundits will have everyone believe different.

  6. Quoted message said:

    From: "Steven L. Sheffield"

    (someone quoted):

    Quoted message said:

    "First, he works for a government-backed monopoly. The U.S. Postal Service sponsors Armstrong's
    team, despite operating at a deficit steeper than any mountain he climbs."

    To add to Mr. Sheffield's list of corrections, obviously USPS has competition from UPS and FedEx for
    packages and overnight letter delivery.

    Going on, strictly my content: Neither of the latter (UPS, FedEx), for the mountains of advertising
    money spent, has succeeded in linking to the equal of
    Mr. Armstrong.

    I would guess that those who complain about USPS operating deficits are the loudest squealers when
    letter rates are raised (sooo-ey!). Of course the reality is that USPS is a plum to be picked, could
    it be reached. Then the mail could go to hell like the airlines (while consuming billions in
    corporate welfare).

    Interestingly, I was told "we're not supposed to have those [Armstrong, bike team posters, other
    materials] in here" in two USPS substations in '02. Not the case at all in another city, where
    employees took pride in Lance and his team "delivering the mail". Ironic since the Lance-less
    offices were in Austin. "Were" because lo and behold, a Lance-in-yellow poster is displayed and
    offered for sale this year at my local USPS station. This is a former neighborhood office for "the
    Armstrongs", so maybe Lance hisself made the call. Yes, the bike team's success is a source of pride
    for the workers there. Anathema!

    BTW, USPS Priority works great for small packages. The convenience/cost/delievery time aspects are
    superior to the competition, both for sending and receiving, in my experience.

    (Gwen Knapp quoted):

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    How often do we read Ferrari's name in >>stories about Armstrong?

    All the time, around here. Lance's name was mentioned early on with Barry Bonds'; apparently he (LA)
    wasn't on the Conte customer list, for all the salivatin' expectation.

    Open to correction. --TP

  7. Sierraman said:

    Interesting article about Armstrong potential as a role model in the drug war, but with a touch of
    Cynicism.

    Damn, I thought this was going to be about which car he drives. A Subaru or a Ferrari? It's easier
    to put a bike rack on the first, but then again Ullrich drives/drove a Porsche. Anyway, not very
    cycling-related.

    Didier

    --
    Didier A Depireux [email hidden] [email hidden] 685 W.Baltimore Str
    neurobiology.umaryland.edudepireux.htm Anatomy and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (off)
    University of Maryland -1273 (lab) Baltimore MD 21201 USA Fax: 1-410-706-2512

  8. Tom Paterson said:


    I would guess that those who complain about USPS operating deficits are the loudest squealers when
    letter rates are raised (sooo-ey!).

    The USPS does *not* have an operating deficit -- it actually cleared a *profit* of about $4.5
    billion from operations in FY2003. It still has $2 billion in accumulated debt.

    usps.comanrpt03

  9. Steven L. Sheffield said:

    Their sponsorship of the cycling team generates exposure throughout the entire year; peaking during
    July ... Lance wins the Tour (the only bike race most Americans even know about), and "USPS" is on
    everyone's lips for weeks.

    And it's worked ... I certainly ship more packages via the USPS now, rather than via UPS or Fed-Ex
    ... They support my sport, and I support them in return.

    Nice that USPS has gotten your attention, but we should recognize that their primary advertising
    audience via the cycling team is Europe. When Congress loosened the reins a number of years ago,
    allowing USPS to compete for the overseas parcel business, sponsorship of the cycling team was a
    primary component of their strategy to increase awareness of USPS in Europe. I think it's worked.

    jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net home.earthlink.net~jeverett3

  10. "Tom Paterson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: "Steven L. Sheffield"



    [snipped]

    Quoted message said:


    BTW, USPS Priority works great for small packages. The convenience/cost/delievery time aspects are
    superior to the competition,


    both

    Quoted message said:

    for sending and receiving, in my experience.

    Agreed. And, as a recipient of packages, I much prefer USPS where my package is delivered securely
    in a locked box instead of being left out on my porch. Whenever I have a choice, I specify USPS.

    --
    ~_-* ...G/ \G cyclistats.comcyclistats.com CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

  11. John Everett said:


    Nice that USPS has gotten your attention, but we should recognize that their primary advertising
    audience via the cycling team is Europe.

    Although they certainly get a lot of play out of the team in advertisements. I never quite
    understood the one that emphasized teamwork, but showed them falling down at least twice.

    Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels...

  12. John Everett said:
    Quoted message said:


    Nice that USPS has gotten your attention, but we should recognize that their primary advertising
    audience via the cycling team is Europe. When Congress loosened the reins a number of years ago,
    allowing USPS to compete for the overseas parcel business,

    And how is that working for them?

  13. John Everett said:

    On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 12:39:08 GMT, "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Their sponsorship of the cycling team generates exposure throughout the entire year; peaking
    during July ... Lance wins the Tour (the only bike race most Americans even know about), and
    "USPS" is on everyone's lips for weeks.

    And it's worked ... I certainly ship more packages via the USPS now, rather than via UPS or Fed-Ex
    ... They support my sport, and I support them in return.

    Quoted message said:

    Nice that USPS has gotten your attention, but we should recognize that their primary advertising
    audience via the cycling team is Europe. When Congress loosened the reins a number of years ago,
    allowing USPS to compete for the overseas parcel business, sponsorship of the cycling team was a
    primary component of their strategy to increase awareness of USPS in Europe. I think it's worked.

    I've always wondered why they didn't acknowledge their sponsorship and successes by providing
    Express Mail pickup boxes on the street painted yellow.

    Quoted message said:

    jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net home.earthlink.net~jeverett3

  14. "John Everett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Nice that USPS has gotten your attention, but we should recognize that their primary advertising
    audience via the cycling team is Europe. When Congress loosened the reins a number of years ago,
    allowing USPS to compete for the overseas parcel business, sponsorship of the cycling team was a
    primary component of their strategy to increase awareness of USPS in Europe. I think it's worked.


    Just curious, has anyone ever seen any TV ads in Europe for USPS featuring Lance Armstrong and/or
    the cycling team? I'm not talking about the (considerable) TV exposure they get during the Tour, but
    whether they're actually allowed to do anything extra with the team, a la Quick.Step?

    Jeff

  15. "Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "John Everett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Nice that USPS has gotten your attention, but we should recognize that their primary advertising
    audience via the cycling team is Europe. When Congress loosened the reins a number of years ago,
    allowing USPS to compete for the overseas parcel business, sponsorship of the cycling team was a
    primary component of their strategy to increase awareness of USPS in Europe. I think it's
    worked.


    Just curious, has anyone ever seen any TV ads in Europe for USPS featuring Lance Armstrong and/or
    the cycling team? I'm not talking about the (considerable) TV exposure they get during the Tour,
    but whether they're actually allowed to do anything extra with the team, a la Quick.Step?

    Jeff

    Have you ever seen a USPS delivery truck competing with FedEx, UPS or DHL in Europe? Ever seen a
    USPS office in Europe to drop off packages for shipment to the US or anyplace else?

  16. "Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> a écrit dans le message de :
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "John Everett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Nice that USPS has gotten your attention, but we should recognize that their primary advertising
    audience via the cycling team is Europe. When Congress loosened the reins a number of years ago,
    allowing USPS to compete for the overseas parcel business, sponsorship of the cycling team was a
    primary component of their strategy to increase awareness of USPS in Europe. I think it's
    worked.


    Just curious, has anyone ever seen any TV ads in Europe for USPS featuring Lance Armstrong and/or
    the cycling team? I'm not talking about the (considerable) TV exposure they get during the Tour,
    but whether they're actually allowed to do anything extra with the team, a la Quick.Step?

    Jeff


    Never, but that's not saying much, given my viewing habits....
    --
    Bonne route,

    Sandy Paris FR

  17. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Just curious, has anyone ever seen any TV ads in Europe for USPS


    featuring

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Lance Armstrong and/or the cycling team? I'm not talking about the (considerable) TV exposure
    they get during the Tour, but whether they're actually allowed to do anything extra with the
    team, a la Quick.Step?

    Jeff

    Have you ever seen a USPS delivery truck competing with FedEx, UPS or DHL


    in

    Quoted message said:

    Europe? Ever seen a USPS office in Europe to drop off packages for


    shipment

    Quoted message said:

    to the US or anyplace else?


    No, but I haven't looked ;-) I receive parcels either via FedEx or ordinary post, and I've seen UPS
    and DHL trucks around Gent. But nothing recognisable as USPS.

    What's the story in France? Robert? Anyone? Bueller?

    Jeff

  18. Tom Paterson said:
    Quoted message said:

    Going on, strictly my content: Neither of the latter (UPS, FedEx), for the mountains of
    advertising money spent, has succeeded in linking to the equal of
    Mr. Armstrong.

    ???

    Quoted message said:

    I would guess that those who complain about USPS operating deficits are the loudest squealers when
    letter rates are raised (sooo-ey!).

    And why not?

    Quoted message said:

    Of course the reality is that USPS is a plum to be picked, could it be reached.

    Exactly. But it can't because it is a protected monopoly.

    Quoted message said:

    Then the mail could go to hell like the airlines ...

    Yes, the airlines are a major disaster. More people are flying than ever before. Great point.

  19. GaryG said:
    Quoted message said:

    And, as a recipient of packages, I much prefer USPS where my package is delivered securely in a
    locked box instead of being left out on my porch.

    By law the other package carriers are not allowed to put packages in the "mailbox."

  20. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de :
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "John Everett" <[email hidden]> wrote in


    message

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Nice that USPS has gotten your attention, but we should recognize that their primary
    advertising audience via the cycling team is Europe. When Congress loosened the reins a number
    of years ago, allowing USPS to compete for the overseas parcel business, sponsorship of the
    cycling team was a primary component of their strategy to increase awareness of USPS in
    Europe. I think it's worked.


    Just curious, has anyone ever seen any TV ads in Europe for USPS


    featuring

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Lance Armstrong and/or the cycling team? I'm not talking about the (considerable) TV exposure
    they get during the Tour, but whether they're actually allowed to do anything extra with the
    team, a la Quick.Step?

    Jeff

    Have you ever seen a USPS delivery truck competing with FedEx, UPS or DHL


    in

    Quoted message said:

    Europe? Ever seen a USPS office in Europe to drop off packages for


    shipment

    Quoted message said:

    to the US or anyplace else?


    Having some things sent to me from the US via USPS, they do not deliver, themselves. They contract
    for local delivery either with La Poste, or with a customs clearing house with combined delivery.
    --
    Bonne route,

    Sandy Paris FR

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.