Armstrong Acromegaly?

Kenneth said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc

That jaw line is odd. It almost doesn't look like him.

There's a lot more to acromegaly than a prominent chin.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

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Quoted message said:

Kenneth said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc

That jaw line is odd. It almost doesn't look like him.

There's a lot more to acromegaly than a prominent chin.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

True, but compare with:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2000/jul00/tdf4/Lance.shtml
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2000/jul00/tdf4/lanceluke21.shtml

from 2000. Maybe it's the camera angle, but it's a very strange looking
photo from this year.

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Kenneth said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc

That jaw line is odd. It almost doesn't look like him.

There's a lot more to acromegaly than a prominent chin.

And also little reason to suspect any endurance athlete of growth hormone
abuse, since it would do nothing to help their performance.

Andy Coggan

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Kenneth said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc

That jaw line is odd. It almost doesn't look like him.

There's a lot more to acromegaly than a prominent chin.

And also little reason to suspect any endurance athlete of growth hormone
abuse, since it would do nothing to help their performance.

Andy Coggan

Indeed. Manzano is just one of the disgruntled 5% who dope and then lie and
smear all the other clean riders. From CyclingNews:
Spanish ex-rofessional Jesus Manzano has continued to blow the whistle on
the alleged doping practices within his former team, Kelme. In the second
part of an in depth interview with Spanish sports newspaper AS, Manzano has
gone into more detail about the use of illegal substances such as
erythropoetin (EPO) and human growth hormone (HGH), with more to come.

Manzano said that HGH could be taken during training and during competition,
because it is not able to be detected in drug controls. He also said that it
is commonly taken with insulin in order to maximise its effect. But
sometimes, as with the blood transfusions that he described previously, the
riders experienced negative reactions to the drug.

B. Lafferty said:

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Quoted message said:

Kenneth said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc

That jaw line is odd. It almost doesn't look like him.

There's a lot more to acromegaly than a prominent chin.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

True, but compare with:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2000/jul00/tdf4/Lance.shtml
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2000/jul00/tdf4/lanceluke21.shtml

from 2000. Maybe it's the camera angle, but it's a very strange looking
photo from this year.

It has more to do with his facial expression and how in the new photo
his upper lip is tensed (shortened) toward his nose, and his upper lip
is raised. His lower jaw is also protruded.
I'll grant that there isn't enough in the photo to really go by one way
or the other. The changes in physiognomy in acromegaly are pretty
characteristic (think Ted Cassidy, who played Lurch in the Addams Family).

The suggestion of acromegally is certainly not absurd if you think
cyclists are taking HGH for extended periods. This is certainly not
risk-free either--I'm way past my pharmo, but growth hormone is
definitely diabetogenic.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Setting aside any reference to a specific cyclist, I recall two or three
years ago there were reports (CyclingNews perhaps) about riders using HGH
and having dental and foot surgery as a result.

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B. Lafferty said:

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> wrote in

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Kenneth wrote:

>http://sports.yahoo.com/sc
>
>That jaw line is odd. It almost doesn't look like him.
>
>

There's a lot more to acromegaly than a prominent chin.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

True, but compare with:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2000/jul00/tdf4/Lance.shtml
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2000/jul00/tdf4/lanceluke21.shtml

from 2000. Maybe it's the camera angle, but it's a very strange looking
photo from this year.

It has more to do with his facial expression and how in the new photo
his upper lip is tensed (shortened) toward his nose, and his upper lip
is raised. His lower jaw is also protruded.
I'll grant that there isn't enough in the photo to really go by one way
or the other. The changes in physiognomy in acromegaly are pretty
characteristic (think Ted Cassidy, who played Lurch in the Addams

Family).

Quoted message said:

The suggestion of acromegally is certainly not absurd if you think
cyclists are taking HGH for extended periods. This is certainly not
risk-free either--I'm way past my pharmo, but growth hormone is
definitely diabetogenic.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Andy Coggan said:

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Kenneth said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc

That jaw line is odd. It almost doesn't look like him.

There's a lot more to acromegaly than a prominent chin.

And also little reason to suspect any endurance athlete of growth hormone
abuse, since it would do nothing to help their performance.

Andy Coggan

My memory may be faulty again. But wasn't Zootemelk once accused of
taking HGH, and his soigneur said he was given the drug because he was
losing weight too rapidly in the Tour?

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

B. Lafferty said:

Setting aside any reference to a specific cyclist, I recall two or three
years ago there were reports (CyclingNews perhaps) about riders using HGH
and having dental and foot surgery as a result.

Hmm. I'm not sure what the dental problem would be. I believe HGH
does act as a glucocorticoid, and could interfere with inflammation and
healing processes in the mouth. And diebetics tend to have aggressive
periodontal disease, but this would be a very late effect--years later.

Steve

Quoted message said:

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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B. Lafferty said:

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> wrote in

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>Kenneth wrote:
>
>
>
>>http://sports.yahoo.com/sc
>>
>>That jaw line is odd. It almost doesn't look like him.
>>
>>
>
>There's a lot more to acromegaly than a prominent chin.
>
>Steve
>
>--
>Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
>http://www.dentaltwins.com
>Brooklyn, NY
>718-258-5001

True, but compare with:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2000/jul00/tdf4/Lance.shtml
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2000/jul00/tdf4/lanceluke21.shtml

from 2000. Maybe it's the camera angle, but it's a very strange looking
photo from this year.

It has more to do with his facial expression and how in the new photo
his upper lip is tensed (shortened) toward his nose, and his upper lip
is raised. His lower jaw is also protruded.
I'll grant that there isn't enough in the photo to really go by one way
or the other. The changes in physiognomy in acromegaly are pretty
characteristic (think Ted Cassidy, who played Lurch in the Addams

Family).

Quoted message said:

The suggestion of acromegally is certainly not absurd if you think
cyclists are taking HGH for extended periods. This is certainly not
risk-free either--I'm way past my pharmo, but growth hormone is
definitely diabetogenic.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

Setting aside any reference to a specific cyclist, I recall two or three
years ago there were reports (CyclingNews perhaps) about riders using

HGH

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and having dental and foot surgery as a result.

Hmm. I'm not sure what the dental problem would be. I believe HGH
does act as a glucocorticoid, and could interfere with inflammation and
healing processes in the mouth. And diebetics tend to have aggressive
periodontal disease, but this would be a very late effect--years later.

Steve

My understanding is that causes certain bones to start growing again
resulting in elongation of the jaw, hands and feet. I would assume that
growth in the jaw would affect a person's bite and could lead to other
dental problems, no? It would be a pain to have to keep getting bigger
shoes, I guess.

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Andy Coggan said:

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Quoted message said:

Kenneth wrote:

>http://sports.yahoo.com/sc
>
>That jaw line is odd. It almost doesn't look like him.
>

There's a lot more to acromegaly than a prominent chin.

And also little reason to suspect any endurance athlete of growth

hormone

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

abuse, since it would do nothing to help their performance.

Andy Coggan

My memory may be faulty again. But wasn't Zootemelk once accused of
taking HGH, and his soigneur said he was given the drug because he was
losing weight too rapidly in the Tour?

No, it wasn't HGH, but nandrolone.

Benjo Maso

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Andy Coggan said:

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Kenneth wrote:

>http://sports.yahoo.com/sc
>
>That jaw line is odd. It almost doesn't look like him.
>

There's a lot more to acromegaly than a prominent chin.

And also little reason to suspect any endurance athlete of growth

hormone

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

abuse, since it would do nothing to help their performance.

Andy Coggan

My memory may be faulty again. But wasn't Zootemelk once accused of
taking HGH, and his soigneur said he was given the drug because he was
losing weight too rapidly in the Tour?

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

That's the first I've heard that one. Here are some sites with hGH and
sports info.
http://www.endocrine-society.gr/hormones/pdf/1_2004/teyx37-45.pdf
http://www.nevdgp.org.au/geninf/asda/media/fact_sheets/human.htm

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Andy Coggan said:

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> wrote in

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>Kenneth wrote:
>
>
>>http://sports.yahoo.com/sc
>>
>>That jaw line is odd. It almost doesn't look like him.
>>
>
>There's a lot more to acromegaly than a prominent chin.

And also little reason to suspect any endurance athlete of growth

hormone

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

abuse, since it would do nothing to help their performance.

Andy Coggan

My memory may be faulty again. But wasn't Zootemelk once accused of
taking HGH, and his soigneur said he was given the drug because he was
losing weight too rapidly in the Tour?

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

That's the first I've heard that one. Here are some sites with hGH and
sports info.
http://www.endocrine-society.gr/hormones/pdf/1_2004/teyx37-45.pdf
http://www.nevdgp.org.au/geninf/asda/media/fact_sheets/human.htm

The section in the Endocrine Society article that related to risk of sudden
death from heart attacks is interesting. Could that be an underlying cause
of some of cycling's sudden deaths over the past year?

B. Lafferty said:

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

Setting aside any reference to a specific cyclist, I recall two or three
years ago there were reports (CyclingNews perhaps) about riders using

HGH

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and having dental and foot surgery as a result.

Hmm. I'm not sure what the dental problem would be. I believe HGH
does act as a glucocorticoid, and could interfere with inflammation and
healing processes in the mouth. And diebetics tend to have aggressive
periodontal disease, but this would be a very late effect--years later.

Steve

My understanding is that causes certain bones to start growing again
resulting in elongation of the jaw, hands and feet. I would assume that
growth in the jaw would affect a person's bite and could lead to other
dental problems, no? It would be a pain to have to keep getting bigger
shoes, I guess.

The long bones (arms and legs) don't grow, but facial bones (incl. the
mandible) and the cartilage of the ears and nose continue to grow.
As far as the mandible goes, it grows downward and forward, the gonial
angle (between the lower border of the mandible and the ramus that
extends up to the base of the skull) becomes more obtuse.
There are some truly amazing orthognathic surgeries these days for
patients with this type of facial problem, but obviously you wouldn't do
it on someone whose mandible is still growing.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

benjo maso said:

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Andy Coggan said:

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

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Quoted message said:

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>Kenneth wrote:
>
>
>
>>http://sports.yahoo.com/sc
>>
>>That jaw line is odd. It almost doesn't look like him.
>>
>
>There's a lot more to acromegaly than a prominent chin.

And also little reason to suspect any endurance athlete of growth

hormone

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

abuse, since it would do nothing to help their performance.

Andy Coggan

My memory may be faulty again. But wasn't Zootemelk once accused of
taking HGH, and his soigneur said he was given the drug because he was
losing weight too rapidly in the Tour?

No, it wasn't HGH, but nandrolone.

Benjo Maso

I was hoping you'd answer. ;-). Yes, an anabolic steroid would make
more sense, given the rationale to stabilize weight.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >

Quoted message said:

My understanding is that causes certain bones to start growing again
resulting in elongation of the jaw, hands and feet. I would assume that
growth in the jaw would affect a person's bite and could lead to other
dental problems, no? It would be a pain to have to keep getting bigger
shoes, I guess.

Didn't Hampsten have an over or under bite corrected?

I'm pointing this out because I have absolutely no reason to believe that
Hampsten did any doping, but sometimes [censored] just happens.

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

benjo maso wrote:

(snip)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My memory may be faulty again. But wasn't Zootemelk once accused of
taking HGH, and his soigneur said he was given the drug because he was
losing weight too rapidly in the Tour?

No, it wasn't HGH, but nandrolone.

Benjo Maso

I was hoping you'd answer. ;-). Yes, an anabolic steroid would make
more sense, given the rationale to stabilize weight.

Initially it was reported that Zoetemelk had tested positive on
testosterone. But his doctor said it was impossible, Because Zoetemelk had
lost too much weight, he hadn't prescribed testerone, but nortestorone
(which is another name for nandrelon). In 1979 it was quite unknown and if
I'm not mistaken, it wasn't even on the doping list - or perhaps the doctor
assumed it. Anyhow, Zoetemelk was furiuous and even went to court to clear
his name.

Benjo Maso

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

benjo maso wrote:

(snip)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My memory may be faulty again. But wasn't Zootemelk once accused of
taking HGH, and his soigneur said he was given the drug because he was
losing weight too rapidly in the Tour?

No, it wasn't HGH, but nandrolone.

Benjo Maso

I was hoping you'd answer. ;-). Yes, an anabolic steroid would make
more sense, given the rationale to stabilize weight.

Initially it was reported that Zoetemelk had tested positive on
testosterone. But his doctor said it was impossible, Because Zoetemelk had
lost too much weight, he hadn't prescribed testerone, but nortestorone
(which is another name for nandrelon). In 1979 it was quite unknown and if
I'm not mistaken, it wasn't even on the doping list - or perhaps the doctor
assumed it. Anyhow, Zoetemelk was furiuous and even went to court to clear
his name.

Benjo Maso

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >

Quoted message said:

My understanding is that causes certain bones to start growing again
resulting in elongation of the jaw, hands and feet. I would assume that
growth in the jaw would affect a person's bite and could lead to other
dental problems, no? It would be a pain to have to keep getting bigger
shoes, I guess.

Didn't Hampsten have an over or under bite corrected?

I'm pointing this out because I have absolutely no reason to believe that
Hampsten did any doping, but sometimes [censored] just happens.

He did have dental surgery after the 1986 Tour. He apparently had the
problem from childhood. The change it made was remarkable in his
appearance.

Carl Sundquist said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >

Quoted message said:

My understanding is that causes certain bones to start growing again
resulting in elongation of the jaw, hands and feet. I would assume that
growth in the jaw would affect a person's bite and could lead to other
dental problems, no? It would be a pain to have to keep getting bigger
shoes, I guess.

Didn't Hampsten have an over or under bite corrected?

I'm pointing this out because I have absolutely no reason to believe that
Hampsten did any doping, but sometimes [censored] just happens.

I don't know the details, but Hampsten did in fact have orthognathic
surgery.
His problem was the opposite of what you tend to see in acromegaly--his
maxilla (upper jaw stuck out) rather than his mandible. But your point
is well-taken that most cases of mandibular prognathism (lower jaw
overdeveloped) have nothing to do with hormone problems or doping.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001