Armadillo vs. Gatorskin?

MeditationMan said:

Which is better, the Specialized Armadillo or the Continental Gatorskin for flat-free city
streets?

I believe both of these materials are used in a variety of tires.

I personally use the Specialized Armadillo Turbo and Turbo Lite tires. No flats in about six months
of daily city riding.

Another friend uses Continental Gator-Skins on her fixie and she seems very happy with them. I've
ridden them and they have a bit softer walls than the Armadillos (thus providing better cornering, I
would think), but are of a softer rubber and wear faster.

That's my opinion. Elmo King

"MeditationMan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Which is better, the Specialized Armadillo or the Continental Gatorskin for flat-free city
streets?

I've used both on my touring bike. I've have many Gaterskins split on the sidewalls with very low
mileages. The sidewalls seem to be very susceptible to damage from rocks and other debris on the
roads and streets in my experience. I switched to Armadillos and have had very good service from
them. They seem to be much tougher.

(MeditationMan) said:

Which is better, the Specialized Armadillo or the Continental Gatorskin for flat-free city streets?

The Gatorskins, hands down (IMHO). They ride like "normal tires", while the Armadillos feel really,
really dead (due to the thick sidewalls I suppose). The Armadillos also have a reputation for
blowing off at the rated pressure (it's happened to me). The Contis have been flawless - I went from
having an average of 2-3 flats per week to one every four months.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

MM

I've used both on my Specialised Sirrus Elite. It had 28mm Armadillo's as standard. Got about 3000
km of life from the rear without a flat. The front did over 6000. Since then I've used a 23mm
Gatorskin on the rear and coincidently got another 3000 km of life, and again no flats. Ride on
local streets and bike paths, regularly through glass and other bits and pieces - so I guess I've
had some luck also.

The Gatorskins seem to ride better and are significantly lighter - if this is important to you.

Regards Jason

"MeditationMan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Which is better, the Specialized Armadillo or the Continental Gatorskin for flat-free city
streets?

"Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(MeditationMan) said:

Which is better, the Specialized Armadillo or the Continental Gatorskin for flat-free city
streets?

The Gatorskins, hands down (IMHO). They ride like "normal tires", while the Armadillos feel
really, really dead (due to the thick sidewalls I suppose). The Armadillos also have a reputation
for blowing off at the rated pressure (it's happened to me). The Contis have been flawless - I
went from having an average of 2-3 flats per week to one every four months.

Holy [censored] -- 2 or 3 flats a week?!? I've only had one (on my road bike, that is) in ~3 months --
stock Bonty Race tires (~120 psi) on Race Lite wheels. Of course, I only get out on the roads 2-3
times per week; average maybe 35 miles a pop (er, pssss!).

Bill "charmed, so far" S.

Quoted message said:

Which is better, the Specialized Armadillo or the Continental Gatorskin for flat-free city
streets?

neither. have tried both.

get better protection, ride, price with all vredestein tires.

Sorni said:

"Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

(MeditationMan) said:

Which is better, the Specialized Armadillo or the Continental Gatorskin for flat-free city
streets?

The Gatorskins, hands down (IMHO). They ride like "normal tires", while the Armadillos feel
really, really dead (due to the thick sidewalls I suppose). The Armadillos also have a reputation
for blowing off at the rated pressure (it's happened to me). The Contis have been flawless - I
went from having an average of 2-3 flats per week to one every four months.

Holy [censored] -- 2 or 3 flats a week?!? I've only had one (on my road bike, that is) in ~3 months --
stock Bonty Race tires (~120 psi) on Race Lite wheels. Of course, I only get out on the roads 2-3
times per week; average maybe 35 miles a pop (er, pssss!).

If you lived in Arizona, you'd understand... :-( We have some nasty thorns that seem to have a
life's ambition to work their way onto the road. Even a Gatorskin / Armadillo isn't going to stop a
thick, perfectly aligned thorn... but it sure helps.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

(MeditationMan) said:

Which is better, the Specialized Armadillo or the Continental Gatorskin for flat-free city streets?

I didn't know that streets could be flat-free. That must be a tough city, always up or down hill...
--
Rick Onanian

[email hidden] (MeditationMan) wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Which is better, the Specialized Armadillo or the Continental Gatorskin for flat-free city
streets?

I've used the Continental Gatorskin 23mm width tires for a couple years. Maybe 3,000 miles on them,
give or take. They show very little wear. But then me and my bike only weigh about 210 to 220
pounds. I've had maybe one or two flats on these tires due to normal debris punctures such as glass
or rocks or thorns. I've had plenty of flats due to defective tubes and worn out rim strips. Almost
all of my flats happen on the underside of the tube next to the rim strip. The side wall of the
Gatorskin tire does not unravel like the Grand Prix 3000 side wall. Its only available in wire bead
so those who think of weight first, second, and last, will have to look elsewhere. If I had to pay
full retail price for tires, I'd probably get these again. But I have run across plenty of mail
order sales over the past years to stock up on supposedly good quality tires at very low prices. I
now have enough tires to last for a decade or two.

Rick Onanian said:

(MeditationMan) said:

Which is better, the Specialized Armadillo or the Continental Gatorskin for flat-free city
streets?

I didn't know that streets could be flat-free. That must be a tough city, always up or down hill...

Edinburgh, then.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!

Mark Hickey said:

The Gatorskins, hands down (IMHO). They ride like "normal tires", while the Armadillos feel
really, really dead (due to the thick sidewalls I suppose).

The 2004 Armadillos use a new casing and reportedly have a better ride.

Quoted message said:

The Armadillos also have a reputation for blowing off at the rated pressure (it's happened to me).

There was one bad production run of Armadillos. The factory had left out a band of tape that ran
around the bead. In high load applications, like tandems, this could cause the tire to become
unseated or the bead to separate. This happened several years ago, and Specialized replaced those
tires without charge. We've had no problems with Armadillos since.

Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery LaSalle, Il 815-223-1776
heronbicycles.comheronbicycles.comOpen ↗ tullios.comtullios.comOpen ↗

Apples and oranges. Conti's Gatorskin tires provide a kevlar belt under the tread. Specialized's
Armadillo tires provide kevlar protection from bead to bead. Additionally, the Armadillo casing is
manufactured with a unique process intended to seal the holes in the kevlar fabric. Without this
process, the tire will be well-protected from cuts, but not punctures which can work through the
weave of the fabric.

The Armadillo tires are pretty unique. I'm not aware of any other tires that offer the same level of
flat protection. There are tires that are lighter or ride better, but they don't protect better.

Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery LaSalle, IL 815-223-1776
heronbicycles.comheronbicycles.comOpen ↗ tullios.comtullios.comOpen ↗

"Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Sorni said:

"Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (MeditationMan) wrote:

>Which is better, the Specialized Armadillo or the Continental Gatorskin for flat-free city
>streets?

The Gatorskins, hands down (IMHO). They ride like "normal tires", while the Armadillos feel
really, really dead (due to the thick sidewalls I suppose). The Armadillos also have a
reputation for blowing off at the rated pressure (it's happened to me). The Contis have been
flawless - I went from having an average of 2-3 flats per week to one every four months.

Holy [censored] -- 2 or 3 flats a week?!? I've only had one (on my road bike, that is) in ~3 months --
stock Bonty Race tires (~120 psi) on Race Lite wheels. Of course, I only get out on the roads 2-3
times per week;

average

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

maybe 35 miles a pop (er, pssss!).

If you lived in Arizona, you'd understand... :-( We have some nasty thorns that seem to have a
life's ambition to work their way onto the road. Even a Gatorskin / Armadillo isn't going to stop
a thick, perfectly aligned thorn... but it sure helps.

Doh! You're right, of course. I always think you're from "back east" (as I call it) for
some reason...

Bill "even MY one flat (in San Diego) was a thorn" S.

Sorni said:

"Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote..

Quoted message said:

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Holy [censored] -- 2 or 3 flats a week?!? I've only had one (on my road bike, that is) in ~3 months --
stock Bonty Race tires (~120 psi) on Race Lite wheels. Of course, I only get out on the roads
2-3 times per week;

average

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

maybe 35 miles a pop (er, pssss!).

If you lived in Arizona, you'd understand... :-( We have some nasty thorns that seem to have a
life's ambition to work their way onto the road. Even a Gatorskin / Armadillo isn't going to stop
a thick, perfectly aligned thorn... but it sure helps.

Doh! You're right, of course. I always think you're from "back east" (as I call it) for some
reason...

I used to have a lot of flats in Florida too (but not THAT many...), also due to a different
kind of thorn.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

Todd Kuzma <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The Armadillo tires are pretty unique. I'm not aware of any other tires that offer the same
level of flat protection. There are tires that are lighter or ride better, but they don't
protect better.

bontrager makes a line of tires called the 'hard case'. like the armadillos, they are stiff as a
block of rubber, heavy as heck, and very confidence-inducing if flats are your problem. i happened
across bontrager's brochure on them somewhere, a week ago. they compared them to the armadillos
and said they were specifically superior to them in many specific ways. i have no comparison to
make, thoguh.

i do know that ive mounted many a 'hard-case' in teh past few months, and ive had an inordinate
amount of trouble getting the road-width versions to seat on the rim far too many times, including
times where despite all attempts the tire never seated. hard cases, if you will. perhaps they run
too tight? or maybe the shop got a bad production run.

anthony

ant said:

bontrager makes a line of tires called the 'hard case'. like the armadillos, they are stiff as a
block of rubber, heavy as heck, and very confidence-inducing if flats are your problem. i happened
across bontrager's brochure on them somewhere, a week ago. they compared them to the armadillos
and said they were specifically superior to them in many specific ways. i have no comparison to
make, thoguh.

Hmmm. I can't find them on Bontrager's web site. I did find a "Select Kevlar" there though. It looks
good except for the wire bead. I hate wire bead tires. They're more expensive to ship and much
harder to carry as a spare.

My stash of Performance EX/K's finally ran out after many years. I was quite disappointed to find
them discontinued in favor of the clearly inferior Forte kevlars which have a much thinner belt and
a higher TPI. I seriously doubt they will avoid flats like the EX/K's did. I never had a cut or
significant puncture through an EX/K belt though I had a lot of nasty cuts in the outer rubber.

--Bill Davidson
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Quoted message said:

ant wrote [abotu the existence of bontrager hard case tires.]

Bill Davidson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<UEpnb.89551$Ms2.26833@fed1read03>...

Quoted message said:

Hmmm. I can't find them on Bontrager's web site. I did find a "Select Kevlar" there though. It
looks good except for the wire bead. I hate wire bead tires. They're more expensive to ship and
much harder to carry as a spare.

they do exist. unless im remembering the manufacturer wrong, but im pretty sure its bontrager. we
have them in a full range of road widths nad sizes, 700c 23-28 and 38, 27". all the ones ive seen
are wire bead. anyways, i wasnt really reccomending them. the ones ive mounted have all (mostly?)
been ridiculously stiff and difficult to seat.

[email hidden] (Russell Seaton) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... <snip>

Quoted message said:

The side wall of the Gatorskin tire does not unravel like the Grand Prix 3000 side wall. Its only
available in wire bead so those who think of weight first, second, and last, will have to look
elsewhere.

<snip>

I have had good luck with the Grand Prix Four Seasons, which appears to be a lightweight Grand
Prix-style tire with a rain-friendly rubber compound and Duraskin sidewalls (similar to the
Gatorskin). Seems to be a good mix of suppleness, light weight, all weather flexibility, and
durability. Fred Roses

ant wrote: all the ones ive seen are wire

Quoted message said:

bead. anyways, i wasnt really reccomending them. the ones ive mounted have all (mostly?) been
ridiculously stiff and difficult to seat.

Interesting. Now that you mention it, every tire seating problem I've ever had was with wire beaded
tires. Now I have another reason to hate wire beads.

Is there *any* advantage to a wire bead?

--Bill Davidson
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