Arm Reflector

On 12/10/2006 20:15, Noel said,

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know where I could get a couple of these reflectors which are
positioned at the end of a plastic orange arm (about 15" long?) and
attach to the frame near the back wheel? I have usually seen them on
touring bikes.

I don't know for sure, but they sound the sort of thing Halfords might
sell. You don't say where you've already tried.

Quoted message said:

They strike ('scuse the pun) me as a good way of increasing a cyclist's
perceived width by an overtaking car whilst also adding an extra reflector.

TBH, I think they might indicate "inexperienced cyclist" to car drivers,
and you might get treated accordingly (the same way learner drivers get
treated - badly!) The word "strike" might be more appropriate than you
meant :-)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Noel came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Hi

Does anyone know where I could get a couple of these reflectors which are
positioned at the end of a plastic orange arm (about 15" long?) and
attach to the frame near the back wheel? I have usually seen them on
touring bikes.

Halfords.

Quoted message said:

They strike ('scuse the pun) me as a good way of increasing a cyclist's
perceived width by an overtaking car whilst also adding an extra
reflector.

I think they might 'seem' a good idea, but in practice actually do little to
enhance visibilty. Indeed if they actually do enhance visibility, then it
seems to only serve as a larger target ..

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
ebay stuff
140040070648
140041371006

In article <[email hidden]>

Noel said:

Hi

Does anyone know where I could get a couple of these reflectors which are
positioned at the end of a plastic orange arm (about 15" long?) and
attach to the frame near the back wheel? I have usually seen them on
touring bikes.

They strike ('scuse the pun) me as a good way of increasing a cyclist's
perceived width by an overtaking car whilst also adding an extra reflector.

Are you sure they don't say "you mustn't come any closer than this" -
more of a target than a safety aid?

Noel said:

Hi

Does anyone know where I could get a couple of these reflectors which are
positioned at the end of a plastic orange arm (about 15" long?) and
attach to the frame near the back wheel? I have usually seen them on
touring bikes.

They strike ('scuse the pun) me as a good way of increasing a cyclist's
perceived width by an overtaking car whilst also adding an extra reflector.

Most LBSs have them, IME. If you're really stuck bodging one up from some
patches of Scotchlite tape, zipties and a coathanger would be pretty easy.

I don't use such devices myself as they're not long enough to show how much
room you really need on a bike. Again IME, road positioning is much more
effective than reflectives of any sort in getting decent amounts of space
from drivers.

May I suggest a large pannier on the RHS of the bike instead? Not only does
it make you wider, most panniers have a reflective patch on the rear and you
can use it to carry things as well.

Regards,

-david

David Nutter said:

Again IME, road positioning is much more
effective than reflectives of any sort in getting decent amounts of space
from drivers.

Just an observation, but when I take a group of children out in reflective
tabards, drivers leave much more space than strictly necessary.
They even slow down, wave and smile too.

John B

Response to John B:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Again IME, road positioning is much more
effective than reflectives of any sort in getting decent amounts of space
from drivers.

Just an observation, but when I take a group of children out in reflective
tabards, drivers leave much more space than strictly necessary.
They even slow down, wave and smile too.

Then all the OP needs is a group of children in reflective tabards. I
could do with some myself for my commute: do Wiggle do them?

--
Mark, UK
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open
sewer and die."

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:37:04 +0100, John B <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Again IME, road positioning is much more
effective than reflectives of any sort in getting decent amounts of space
from drivers.

Just an observation, but when I take a group of children out in reflective
tabards, drivers leave much more space than strictly necessary.
They even slow down, wave and smile too.

That's a far more common reaction than the odd shouted obsenity. Some
National Standard instructors don't like children in reflective tops
for that very reason: it creates an unrealistic road situation. I
think it's a good advert for what we are doing.

The VW in this photo stayed behind the trainee until she had turned
left at the mini roundabout.

http://www.johnballcycling.org.uk/images/miniround

Mark McNeill said:

Then all the OP needs is a group of children in reflective tabards. I
could do with some myself for my commute: do Wiggle do them?

Well, I've got four of my own and sometimes - just sometimes - I feel like
putting them on e-bay ;-)

John B

David Nutter said:

May I suggest a large pannier on the RHS of the bike instead? Not only does
it make you wider, most panniers have a reflective patch on the rear and you
can use it to carry things as well.

I find an ice axe strapped on sideways, or carrying a scythe gets you
plenty of space (especially when wearing a hoodie)

...d

David Martin said:

David Nutter said:

May I suggest a large pannier on the RHS of the bike instead? Not
only does it make you wider, most panniers have a reflective patch
on the rear and you can use it to carry things as well.

I find an ice axe strapped on sideways, or carrying a scythe gets
you plenty of space (especially when wearing a hoodie)

The scythe wouldn't be a lot of use if you inadvertently end up in an
angry mob scene though. I'd definitely recommend carrying a more
practical improved weapon to brandish should you need to ;o)

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck

Chris Eilbeck wrote on 13/10/2006 00:09 +0100:

Quoted message said:

The scythe wouldn't be a lot of use if you inadvertently end up in an
angry mob scene though. I'd definitely recommend carrying a more
practical improved weapon to brandish should you need to ;o)

Oh, I don't know. An ankle length black hoodie and some white face
make-up to go with the scythe should have them running a mile ;-)

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Tom Crispin said the following on 12/10/2006 22:16:

Quoted message said:

That's a far more common reaction than the odd shouted obsenity. Some
National Standard instructors don't like children in reflective tops
for that very reason: it creates an unrealistic road situation. I
think it's a good advert for what we are doing.

I would have thought whether or not it is an unrealistic situation comes
second place to a child's safety. As someone else said, a few children
in reflective tops is probably the best thing to have around you for safety!

Quoted message said:

The VW in this photo stayed behind the trainee until she had turned
left at the mini roundabout.

I wonder if the VW would have waited if the girl was riding in the
gutter? That photo shows quite graphically why a cyclist should be in a
good road position.

There are isolated pockets of the UK where drivers will do the same for
adult cyclists as well! Lincolnshore seems to be one (at least, the bit
of it I know). More used to pushy drivers in Somerset, I find myself
thinking "Are you going past or what?" quickly followed by "Wow - he's
actually waiting until it's safe to pass."

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Quoted message said:

Oh, I don't know. An ankle length black hoodie and some white face
make-up to go with the scythe should have them running a mile ;-)

;-)

Rob Morley said:

Are you sure they don't say "you mustn't come any closer than this" -
more of a target than a safety aid?

My near translucent Lidl cycle shorts are usually most effective at
pushing drivers out further (especially in the standing position) but with
these gloomy days and early nights I think anything that makes you more
visible is worth the investment.

Maybe I could tape two together...

I'll have to check Halfords - one place I didn't think to look in fact -
doh.

Noel

Paul Boyd said:

Tom Crispin said the following on 12/10/2006 22:16:

Quoted message said:

That's a far more common reaction than the odd shouted obsenity. Some
National Standard instructors don't like children in reflective tops
for that very reason: it creates an unrealistic road situation. I
think it's a good advert for what we are doing.

I would have thought whether or not it is an unrealistic situation comes
second place to a child's safety.

Regrettably, the effect of bright yellow jackets can greatly affect the
training. The aim of the NS training is to instruct riders in riding safely in
today's *real* road conditions, not in some sanitised false situation.

Correct road positioning, clear signalling and confident riding should make the
need for hi-viz clothing less necessary.
However, I must admit I fall between the two schools of thought on this one,
although if a trainee does not wish to wear a reflective then it will not
necessarily stop the training.

I do get concerned that hi-vis use may go the way of helmets, where insistence
by some trainers and others may result in a move towards compulsion.
The onus of seeing what is ahead should always come before placing the onus on
being seen.

Quoted message said:

I wonder if the VW would have waited if the girl was riding in the
gutter? That photo shows quite graphically why a cyclist should be in a
good road position.

How much of the driver's behaviour was a result of the reflective, and how much
was because of the road positioning?

John B

Quoted message said:

How much of the driver's behaviour was a result of the reflective, and
how much was because of the road positioning?

And how much the result of a chap standing at the side of the road getting
it all on camera? ;-)