Argon, Calfee, Madone or orbea Orca?

Quoted message said:

Shopping for a ne carbon frame. I'm a new racer, 179 lbs,
a pedal-masher and I like the bike to jump when I hit the
pedals. Don't mind quick steering. Riding an LS Ultimate
now. Any opinions on which is the best?

As a highly-biased person who sells them for a living, I've
been eyeing the Madone with more than a small amount of
lust. I don't *need* one... my 5900 is everything I've ever
wanted in a bike. But still, there's something about the
Madone that calls to me... too bad the waiting list is so
long. Can't justify getting one when my customers can't.
Hate that!

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

teamk-<< Riding an LS Ultimate now. Any opinions on which
is the best?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

The one that fits you the best. I am partial to Calfee.

Great price, titanium dropouts and other bits, $2000.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted message said:

The one that fits you the best. I am partial to Calfee.

Great price, titanium dropouts and other bits, $2000.

Peter: It took you over three hours to follow my response. I
thought about typing one in for you! (The good news is that
it means you must be having a pretty decent day...)

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

teamk-<< Riding an LS Ultimate now. Any opinions on which
is the best?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

The one that fits you the best. I am partial to Calfee.

Great price, titanium dropouts and other bits, $2000.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

The waiting list is long because its already out of
production.

The Madone is a marketing fiasco -- you are buying a bike
that Lance doesn't like.

--

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"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Shopping for a ne carbon frame. I'm a new racer, 179
lbs, a

pedal-masher

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and I like the bike to jump when I hit the pedals. Don't
mind quick steering. Riding an LS Ultimate now. Any
opinions on which is the best?

As a highly-biased person who sells them for a living,
I've been eyeing

the

Quoted message said:

Madone with more than a small amount of lust. I don't
*need* one... my

5900

Quoted message said:

is everything I've ever wanted in a bike. But still,
there's something about the Madone that calls to me... too
bad the waiting list is so long. Can't justify getting one
when my customers can't. Hate that!

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-
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Quoted message said:

I ramble around on these NG each morning over a cup o
jo...then onto the

bike

Quoted message said:

and to work. Love my new Mewrckx, BTW..it ain't tin or
carpet fiber or

beer can

Quoted message said:

stuff, but i sure like it!!

Oh dang, what did you go out and get a new bike for? That's
*not* helping me any. My bike's not even four years old yet;
I really don't *need* a Madone...

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

Does that mean thge 5900 is the best option from Trek?

Anyone know how the '04 5900 compaes ridewise to the '03
version? Specs say its 1000 grams, which is same as the
Orca, which I'm hearing may be a little too light.

My one problem w/ Calfee is I want to give thebusiness to my
LBS. They're great guys and I'm loyal. Problem is they only
have Trek, Orbea and Felt. Any other thoughts?

Thanks.

"JayofMontreal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The waiting list is long because its already out of
production.

The Madone is a marketing fiasco -- you are buying a bike
that Lance

doesn't

Quoted message said:

like.

--

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"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Shopping for a ne carbon frame. I'm a new racer, 179
lbs, a

pedal-masher

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and I like the bike to jump when I hit the pedals.
Don't mind quick steering. Riding an LS Ultimate now.
Any opinions on which is the

best?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As a highly-biased person who sells them for a living,
I've been eyeing

the

Quoted message said:

Madone with more than a small amount of lust. I don't
*need* one... my

5900

Quoted message said:

is everything I've ever wanted in a bike. But still,
there's something about the Madone that calls to me...
too bad the waiting list is so

long.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can't justify getting one when my customers can't.
Hate that!

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-
virus system (grisoft.comgrisoft.comOpen ↗). Version: 6.0.642 /
Virus Database: 410 - Release Date: 3/24/2004

LTK said:

My one problem w/ Calfee is I want to give thebusiness to
my LBS. They're great guys and I'm loyal. Problem is they
only have Trek, Orbea and Felt. Any other thoughts?

Talk your LBS into becoming a Calfee dealer?
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA bike.terrymorse.combike.terrymorse.comOpen ↗

I'm going to ask.

"Terry Morse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tmorse-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

LTK said:

My one problem w/ Calfee is I want to give thebusiness
to my LBS.

They're

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

great guys and I'm loyal. Problem is they only have
Trek, Orbea and

Felt.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any other thoughts?

Talk your LBS into becoming a Calfee dealer?
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA bike.terrymorse.combike.terrymorse.comOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Does that mean thge 5900 is the best option from Trek?

Anyone know how the '04 5900 compaes ridewise to the '03
version? Specs

say

Quoted message said:

its 1000 grams, which is same as the Orca, which I'm
hearing may be a

little

Quoted message said:

too light.

The new 5900 is only slightly-lighter than the '03 (mine is
an '01 which is basically unchanged from the '03). The main
advantage to the '04 is that it uses a conventional fork &
headset arrangement, so you can use a Chris King headset if
you wish. No more pressed-in lower bearing race.

The 5900 is about as "proven" a bike as you can find; I
wouldn't worry about durability, unless you intend to smash
it or have someone run into your chainstay (but such impacts
would probably wreck just about any frame, and the TDF
showed that it was possible to push 700 watts through a
single chainstay... which was *way* more than anyone thought
could be done).

Most high-end bike frames have a very short sales lifespan
before they become yesterday's news and get tossed in favor
of some other "new & exciting" design. By contrast, the 5900
is the result of continuous refinement over the past 13
years. The bugs were worked out many years ago!

Quoted message said:

My one problem w/ Calfee is I want to give thebusiness to
my LBS. They're great guys and I'm loyal. Problem is they
only have Trek, Orbea and Felt. Any other thoughts?

One of the reasons shops don't carry every line in the world
is that they're comfortable with how a particular brand
handles problems & warranties. TREK is known to be one of
the very best in that regard, and that's a very comforting
thing when selling high-end bikes. That's not to say that
Calfee isn't excellent as well, but I have no direct
experience with them.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

Got my '04 5900 two months ago. Already have done a double
on it and it's, like Barbara would say, like butter! Love
it, love it, love it...

"LTK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XEWbc.34051$He5.651811@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Quoted message said:

Does that mean thge 5900 is the best option from Trek?

Anyone know how the '04 5900 compaes ridewise to the '03
version? Specs

say

Quoted message said:

its 1000 grams, which is same as the Orca, which I'm
hearing may be a

little

Quoted message said:

too light.

My one problem w/ Calfee is I want to give thebusiness to
my LBS. They're great guys and I'm loyal. Problem is they
only have Trek, Orbea and Felt. Any other thoughts?

Thanks.

"JayofMontreal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The waiting list is long because its already out of
production.

The Madone is a marketing fiasco -- you are buying a
bike that Lance

doesn't

Quoted message said:

like.

--

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---------------

Quoted message said:

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"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message -"]news:[email hidden]-
gy.com...

Quoted message said:

> Shopping for a ne carbon frame. I'm a new racer, 179
> lbs, a

pedal-masher

Quoted message said:

> and I like the bike to jump when I hit the pedals.
> Don't mind quick steering. Riding an LS Ultimate
> now. Any opinions on which is the

best?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As a highly-biased person who sells them for a living,
I've been

eyeing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

Madone with more than a small amount of lust. I don't
*need* one...

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

5900

Quoted message said:

is everything I've ever wanted in a bike. But still,
there's

something

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

about the Madone that calls to me... too bad the
waiting list is so

long.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can't justify getting one when my customers can't.
Hate that!

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

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"LTK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Shopping for a ne carbon frame. I'm a new racer, 179 lbs,
a

pedal-masher

Quoted message said:

and I like the bike to jump when I hit the pedals.
Don't mind

quick

Quoted message said:

steering. Riding an LS Ultimate now. Any opinions on
which is

the best?

How tall are you, and what is the problem with your LS
Ultimate? I broke an old Cannondale and was in the market
for a new frame (until I was told that I could have a new
frame free), and was told by the local Trek shop that I
should forget about the OCLVs. I am slightly under 6'4," and
the advice from the shop proved accurate. If you are in the
range of people who can fit an OCLV, however, I would buy
one for the warranty and dealer network. I would not bother
with an overpriced Madone -- or any other tippity-top end
bike unless it were given to me by a sponsor (not likely
being that I am an old, retired racer -- although I may make
a comeback just to prevent Lance from taking 6). At your
weight, I doubt you are KOM and think you should concentrate
on something durable and stiff as opposed to ultra-light and
sketchy. I think you should get a reasonably light Trek and
then dump the money on the components, which you could (if
you must) trade to a different frame at the end of the Cat 4
or 5 season (because you may need one -- along with skin
grafts). You could then sell the Trek on e-Bay as "slightly
used." -- Jay Beattie.

Quoted message said:

Was the Madone redesigned with a more like 5900 seat
tube?? At Lance's request... or not??

Urban legend?? Done for Cheryl?

Lance & Cheryl are the stuff of urban legend, but a bike???

Lance, weight-weenie that he is, likes the idea of a Madone
"SL" without the aero bit at the back of the seat tube. The
rest of the team gets the standard Madone, but... well,
what Lance wants, Lance gets. It makes a little bit of
sense, given that Lance isn't usually out there in the wind
on his own (unless it's a steep climb, in which case
aerodynamics isn't such a huge issue). The rest of the team
is out working at the front, and needs all the aero help
they can get.

Anybody who doesn't realize the extent to which Lance has
affected product development at TREK over the past few years
has been living in a hole someplace. But what makes things
different at TREK is that, whatever they design for Lance
becomes a stock production bike, because the costs of a new
model are all up-front... so, whatever Lance wants, Lance
gets, and we get the exact same thing too. It's going to get
confusing next year...

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Lance, weight-weenie that he is, likes the idea of a
Madone "SL" without the aero bit at the back of the seat
tube. The rest of the team gets the standard Madone,
but... well, what Lance wants, Lance gets. It makes a
little bit of sense, given that Lance isn't usually out
there in the wind on his own (unless it's a steep climb,
in which case aerodynamics isn't such a huge issue). The
rest of the team is out working at the front, and needs
all the aero help they can get.

Maybe aero-kitsch bikes offend Lance's aesthetic
sensibilities -- as they do many other people's.

Quoted message said:

Anybody who doesn't realize the extent to which Lance has
affected product development at TREK over the past few
years has been living in a hole someplace. But what makes
things different at TREK is that, whatever they design for
Lance becomes a stock production bike, because the costs
of a new model are all up-front... so, whatever Lance
wants, Lance gets, and we get the exact same thing too.
It's going to get confusing next year...

It's my impression that Trek is doing very, very well,
compared to other bike companies. Maybe they ought to keep
listening to Lance.

Matt O.

[email hidden] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

MikeJ-<< My bike's not even four years old yet; I really
don't *need* a Madone.. >><BR><BR>

Was the Madone redesigned with a more like 5900 seat
tube?? At Lance's request... or not??

Urban legend?? Done for Cheryl?

cyclingnews.comteamtech04.phpOpen ↗
ikes/usps_trek

[email hidden] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

MikeJ-<< My bike's not even four years old yet; I really
don't *need* a Madone.. >><BR><BR>

Was the Madone redesigned with a more like 5900 seat
tube?? At Lance's request... or not??

Urban legend?? Done for Cheryl?

cyclingnews.comteamtech04.phpOpen ↗
ikes/usps_trek

If you're talking about the Madone 5.9, it's already here. I
was going to write a review on this bike, but want to ride
it for a month to put it to the test. I've also had the Trek
5900 Ultralight, so I could compare them pretty close. In
short, the Madone rides nothing like the 5900. Two different
bikes. If you're looking for a pure climber's bike, then I
would go with the 5900, or the Giant Once Carbon. Every
rider is different and enjoys certain features on a bike.
The Madone is a very comfortable bike which is also fast and
great on the climbs. I would ride them all before making a
decision. Here's one of reviews I've read on the Modone:
velonews.com4353.0.htmlOpen ↗
There are more current review done on this bike. -tom

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MikeJ-<< Anybody who doesn't realize the extent to which
Lance has

affected

Quoted message said:

product development at TREK over the past few years has
been living in a hole someplace. >><BR><BR>

How far away is the new 'Armstrong' frameset, made
by Trek...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

BTW, it's Sheryl, unless it's another S.O. we don't know
about. Are you sure it wasn't her bike? trekb-trekb-Open ↗
ikes.com/news/news_detail.jsp?articleId=6457&category=ho-
t_news -tom

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nope, I'm talking about a Armstrong labeled frameset, ala
the Lemond,

after

Quoted message said:

Lance has retired(shortly after 2004 TdF) and after he
rides into the

sunset in

Quoted message said:

the Republic of Texas, in a pickup truck, Cheryl at his
side, back filled

with

Quoted message said:

cases of Budweiser.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

tom-<< If you're talking about the Madone 5.9, it's
already here.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Nope, I'm talking about a Armstrong labeled frameset, ala
the Lemond, after Lance has retired(shortly after 2004
TdF) and after he rides into the sunset in the Republic of
Texas, in a pickup truck, Cheryl at his side, back filled
with cases of Budweiser.

You paint a nice fairy-tale picture, Peter...and it might
come true!

So what would be the "distinguishing characteristics"* of an
Amstrong? Any particular geometry traits? I'm built exactly
like him (if you squashed and widened him and then fed him
gallons of ice cream, that is), so I might be interested 🙂

Bill "ideal cookie cutter candidate" S.

*other than a cracked chainstay, of course

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

tom-<< If you're talking about the Madone 5.9, it's
already here. >><BR><BR>

Nope, I'm talking about a Armstrong labeled frameset, ala
the Lemond, after Lance has retired(shortly after 2004
TdF) and after he rides into the sunset in the Republic of
Texas, in a pickup truck, Cheryl at his side, back filled
with cases of Budweiser.

Shiner Bock