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Are races' prizes net or gross when it's not specified?

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
10 September 2005
Last activity
12 September 2005
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Mary
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  1. Hello,

    I live in Italy and I am a professional runner.
    Some months ago I won an international running race in Boston
    (Massachusetts) where the promised prize was $1200.
    Unfortunately they only gave me about $850 because - they said - of
    taxes. The problem is that there was no specifications on taxes in the
    advertising.
    I was disappointed, since here in Italy where the specified prize is
    euro 1200 without spec. on taxes it's meant as net prize and they
    always give the full 1200 euro. Taxes are implicitly at charge of the
    part that pays the prize, ie. the race's organization.

    Am I, as professional and italian athlete in USA just for the race, in
    the right of claiming the full $1200 in cash from this organization?
    If you can, please indicate the law/article (eventually with links to the
    full
    legal text) that found your answer..

    Thanks you very muchMary

  2. Mary said:

    Hello,

    I live in Italy and I am a professional runner.
    Some months ago I won an international running race in Boston
    (Massachusetts) where the promised prize was $1200.
    Unfortunately they only gave me about $850 because - they said - of
    taxes. The problem is that there was no specifications on taxes in the
    advertising.
    I was disappointed, since here in Italy where the specified prize is
    euro 1200 without spec. on taxes it's meant as net prize and they
    always give the full 1200 euro. Taxes are implicitly at charge of the
    part that pays the prize, ie. the race's organization.

    Am I, as professional and italian athlete in USA just for the race, in
    the right of claiming the full $1200 in cash from this organization?
    If you can, please indicate the law/article (eventually with links to the
    full
    legal text) that found your answer..

    Thanks you very muchMary

    You are probably entitled to the 1200 minus the taxes applicable to you.
    This would allow you to deduct from the taxes paid on your winnings the
    cost incurred for winning that money (ie, you can deduct the cost of the
    plane ticket to Boston, hotel accommodations, coaches fees, etc from the
    taxes you paid when you make a claim, and you would do so by filling out
    a US income tax form).

    However, if the race director won't provide this winning to you without
    a hassle, and you are forced to make a tax claim, then the legal fees
    and the time and effort involved in the process of making a claim may
    not be worth trying to regain these winnings especially if it is
    considered a taxable deduction on your own Italian income tax.

    For instance, in Canada if we need to pay 10 percent tax to the US for
    wages or earnings, and our own Canadian tax is say 15 percent, Canada
    would not charge us a full 15 percent, they would only charge us on the
    remaining 5 percent. In other words they wouldn't charge us twice.

  3. You got what you had coming to you under US law.

    "Mary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hello,

    I live in Italy and I am a professional runner.
    Some months ago I won an international running race in Boston
    (Massachusetts) where the promised prize was $1200.
    Unfortunately they only gave me about $850 because - they said - of
    taxes. The problem is that there was no specifications on taxes in the
    advertising.
    I was disappointed, since here in Italy where the specified prize is
    euro 1200 without spec. on taxes it's meant as net prize and they
    always give the full 1200 euro. Taxes are implicitly at charge of the
    part that pays the prize, ie. the race's organization.

    Am I, as professional and italian athlete in USA just for the race, in
    the right of claiming the full $1200 in cash from this organization?
    If you can, please indicate the law/article (eventually with links to the
    full
    legal text) that found your answer..

    Thanks you very muchMary

  4. Quoted message said:

    "Mary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hello,

    I live in Italy and I am a professional runner.
    Some months ago I won an international running race in Boston
    (Massachusetts) where the promised prize was $1200.
    Unfortunately they only gave me about $850 because - they said - of
    taxes. The problem is that there was no specifications on taxes in
    the
    advertising.

    Welcome to the US. Just about everything in the US is taxed one way or
    another and I would say that just about everything you win, unless they
    say the taxes are prepaid, is taxed. The lottery is a prime example and
    those silly ass prizes on quiz shows on TV are also taxed.

    So while you were looking for admission on the form that you would have
    to pay taxes or that the organizers would pay the taxes, you had best
    understand that the corollary is true - expect to pay taxes unless
    stated otherwise.

    Site the law or web? Run "paying taxes on prizes" or some such
    variation and you'll find volumes.

    I would have been shocked if they DIDN'T tax you. Welcome to the land
    of the free, free to pay taxes.

    -DF

  5. On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:59:19 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Welcome to the land
    of the free, free to pay taxes.

    -DF

    F**king commie [censored]!
    TBR

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
    more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
    the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
    White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
    "Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
    but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

  6. Thanks for your answer.

    Quoted message said:

    Welcome to the US. Just about everything in the US is taxed one way or
    another and I would say that just about everything you win, unless they
    say the taxes are prepaid, is taxed. The lottery is a prime example and
    those silly ass prizes on quiz shows on TV are also taxed.

    In eBay isn't the price you see that you pay unless it's specified that
    taxes (vat?) are excluded?

    Mary

  7. In the US, essentially all personal income is taxed. This includes
    prize money. The company that pays you is required to deduct the
    income tax from the amount paid. At the end of the year, they
    should send you a "Form 1099", which states the full amount of the
    income, the amount deducted for taxes, and the net paid to you. You
    then must file a US Income Tax Return. If your gross income is low
    you can get a "refund" for most of the amount that was withheld.

    It's a pain in the posterior, though. They want to know about ALL
    of your income, and then allow deductions for foreign (non-US)
    income for which tax has been paid in another country. A huge
    amount of accounting is required.

    If I tally my normal hourly rate times the hours spent doing the
    accounting and tax preparation, it costs me several thousand dollars
    per year just to comply with the US tax laws.

    Steve

  8. "Steve Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    In the US, essentially all personal income is taxed. This includes prize
    money. The company that pays you is required to deduct the income tax
    from the amount paid. At the end of the year, they should send you a
    "Form 1099", which states the full amount of the income, the amount
    deducted for taxes, and the net paid to you. You then must file a US
    Income Tax Return. If your gross income is low you can get a "refund" for
    most of the amount that was withheld.

    It's a pain in the posterior, though. They want to know about ALL of
    your income, and then allow deductions for foreign (non-US) income for
    which tax has been paid in another country. A huge amount of accounting
    is required.

    If I tally my normal hourly rate times the hours spent doing the
    accounting and tax preparation, it costs me several thousand dollars per
    year just to comply with the US tax laws.

    Steve

    Then you should really look into supporting the Fair Tax (www.fairtax.org)

  9. Without seeing all of the advertising materials, any disclaimers, etc. that
    might have been used by the promotors or signed by yourself, I can't address
    any "false advertising" claims that might exist.

    That said, it is not unusual in the United States for advertised prizes to
    be subject to withholding potential tax without prior notification, that is,
    the prize that is advertised is the gross winnings and not the net winnings.

    For instance, if you win a big payout at a casino in the United States, they
    are going to withhold potential taxes that might be owed on the total
    amount.
    In your case, the organizers were required, outside some complicated
    process,
    to withhold 30% of your winnings. This is covered under Section 1441 of the
    United States Internal Revenue Tax (IRS) code. The "Intltaxlaw.com" web
    site
    details this section of the IRS code.

    "Section 1441. Withholding of Tax on Nonresident Aliens"
    http://www.intltaxlaw.com/inbound/withhold/irc.htm#Section%201441

    "... all persons, in whatever capacity acting ... having the ... payment of
    any of the items of income ... of any nonresident alien individual ... shall
    .... deduct and withhold from such items a tax equal to 30 percent thereof
    ...."
    This is reiterated on this IRS web page.

    "Artists and Athletes (Income Code 20)"
    http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=106190,00.html

    "You must withhold tax at a 30% rate on payments to artists and athletes for
    services performed as independent contractors."

    Are you out the 30% that they withheld? It appears that you can file a tax
    return and as the amount paid to you is under the exemption allowed ($3,100)
    you should be able to a file a "Form 1040NR" and get the balance as a tax
    refund. The instructions and the form can be found on the IRS web site.

    Note these are the forms for 2004, so if you won the race in 2005, you will
    have to wait until the 2005 forms are available before you can file them.

    "Instructions for Form 1040NR - U.S. Nonresident Alien Income Tax Return"
    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040nr.pdf

    "For tax purposes, an alien is an individual who is not a U.S. citizen.
    Aliens are classified as nonresident aliens and resident aliens. This
    publication will help you determine your status and give you information
    you will need to file your U.S. tax return."

    Here is the form. "Form 1040NR - U.S. Nonresident Alien Income Tax Return"
    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040nr.pdf

    This next part is beyond the scope of the question, but you might be able
    to avoid some or all of this problem in future events. You might be able
    to file a Form W-8BEN with the promotor in advance of a race.

    "Certificate of Foreign Status of Beneficial Owner for United States Tax
    Withholding"

    W-8BEN Instructions - http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw8ben.pdf
    W-8BEN Form - http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw8ben.pdf

    If you need any clarification, please feel free to ask.

    Denco

  10. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I live in Italy and I am a professional runner.
    Some months ago I won an international running race in Boston
    (Massachusetts) where the promised prize was $1200.
    Unfortunately they only gave me about $850 because - they said - of
    taxes. The problem is that there was no specifications on taxes in
    the
    advertising.


    Tax rate is 30% on non-residents *except* those covered by a tax treaty.

    There is also a 30% withholding against that potential liability. If the
    actual liability is lower, you can get back the difference by filing a tax form
    at year end. In other words, the 30% is just a provisional withholding that is
    credited to you..

    Most countries do have tax treaties with the U.S. that eliminate double
    taxation. So you may well be able to get back most of the $350 .

    Ask in misc. taxes.moderated for more information or call the IRS information
    officer at the U.S. embassy in your home country......

  11. On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 01:02:59 -0400, Don Brady <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > I live in Italy and I am a professional runner.
    > Some months ago I won an international running race in Boston
    > (Massachusetts) where the promised prize was $1200.
    > Unfortunately they only gave me about $850 because - they said - of
    > taxes. The problem is that there was no specifications on taxes in
    > the
    > advertising.


    Tax rate is 30% on non-residents *except* those covered by a tax treaty.

    There is also a 30% withholding against that potential liability. If the
    actual liability is lower, you can get back the difference by filing a tax form
    at year end. In other words, the 30% is just a provisional withholding that is
    credited to you..

    Most countries do have tax treaties with the U.S. that eliminate double
    taxation. So you may well be able to get back most of the $350 .

    Ask in misc. taxes.moderated for more information or call the IRS information
    officer at the U.S. embassy in your home country......

    OR she could just stop being a greedy, greasy slimeball, and STFU.
    TBR

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
    more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
    the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
    White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
    "Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
    but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

  12. On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 01:02:59 -0400, Don Brady <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > I live in Italy and I am a professional runner.
    > Some months ago I won an international running race in Boston
    > (Massachusetts) where the promised prize was $1200.
    > Unfortunately they only gave me about $850 because - they said - of
    > taxes. The problem is that there was no specifications on taxes in
    > the
    > advertising.


    Tax rate is 30% on non-residents *except* those covered by a tax treaty.

    There is also a 30% withholding against that potential liability. If the
    actual liability is lower, you can get back the difference by filing a tax form
    at year end. In other words, the 30% is just a provisional withholding that is
    credited to you..

    Most countries do have tax treaties with the U.S. that eliminate double
    taxation. So you may well be able to get back most of the $350 .

    Ask in misc. taxes.moderated for more information or call the IRS information
    officer at the U.S. embassy in your home country......

    OR she could just stop being a greedy, greasy slimeball, and STFU.
    TBR

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
    more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
    the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
    White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
    "Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
    but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

  13. "Mary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks for your answer.

    Quoted message said:

    Welcome to the US. Just about everything in the US is taxed one way or
    another and I would say that just about everything you win, unless they
    say the taxes are prepaid, is taxed. The lottery is a prime example and
    those silly ass prizes on quiz shows on TV are also taxed.

    In eBay isn't the price you see that you pay unless it's specified that
    taxes (vat?) are excluded?

    Yes, state sales taxes aren't required with the transaction if it's a
    sale across state borders. But it's actually implied that you'll keep track
    of all of those sales and pay them to your state at the end of the year.
    Nobody does though.
    This is entirely different set of laws from prize money. There is a
    specific tax for prize earnings.

    Dave

  14. I love the way you sensor the "f" word but not the "c" word

    "Bill Rogdrs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:59:19 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Welcome to the land
    of the free, free to pay taxes.

    -DF

    F**king commie [censored]!
    TBR

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
    more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
    the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and
    the
    White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
    "Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
    but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

  15. That's because I LOVE [censored] SO MUCH!!!

    I even have my own group for it!!!

    alt.bill.davidson.is.a.[censored]

    Quoted message said:



    "Bob Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I love the way you sensor the "f" word but not the "c" word

    "Bill Rogdrs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:59:19 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Welcome to the land
    of the free, free to pay taxes.

    -DF

    F**king commie [censored]!
    TBR

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
    more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious
    day
    the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and
    the
    White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
    "Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
    but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

  16. That's because I LOVE [censored] SO MUCH!!!

    I even have my own group for it!!!

    alt.bill.davidson.is.a.[censored]

    Quoted message said:



    "Bob Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I love the way you sensor the "f" word but not the "c" word

    "Bill Rogdrs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:59:19 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Welcome to the land
    of the free, free to pay taxes.

    -DF

    F**king commie [censored]!
    TBR

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
    more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious
    day
    the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and
    the
    White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
    "Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
    but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

  17. er, twas the other "c" word, never mind! whatever floats your boat ...

    "The Bill Rodgers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:1126535559.345d397f8a7cbc95a5e2092fbd001d11@teranews...

    Quoted message said:

    That's because I LOVE [censored] SO MUCH!!!

    I even have my own group for it!!!

    alt.bill.davidson.is.a.[censored]

    Quoted message said:



    "Bob Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I love the way you sensor the "f" word but not the "c" word

    "Bill Rogdrs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:59:19 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    >Welcome to the land
    >of the free, free to pay taxes.
    >
    >-DF

    F**king commie [censored]!
    TBR

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
    more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious
    day
    the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and
    the
    White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
    "Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be
    intelligent,
    but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

  18. er, twas the other "c" word, never mind! whatever floats your boat ...

    "The Bill Rodgers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:1126535559.345d397f8a7cbc95a5e2092fbd001d11@teranews...

    Quoted message said:

    That's because I LOVE [censored] SO MUCH!!!

    I even have my own group for it!!!

    alt.bill.davidson.is.a.[censored]

    Quoted message said:



    "Bob Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I love the way you sensor the "f" word but not the "c" word

    "Bill Rogdrs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:59:19 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    >Welcome to the land
    >of the free, free to pay taxes.
    >
    >-DF

    F**king commie [censored]!
    TBR

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
    more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious
    day
    the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and
    the
    White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
    "Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be
    intelligent,
    but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

  19. Bob Smith said:

    er, twas the other "c" word, never mind! whatever floats your boat ...

    Um dumbazz, that was my imposter.
    TBR

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
    more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
    the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
    White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
    "Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
    but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

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