Mountain Bikes · Public discussion

Appeasing the Mountain Bikers

Started by Mike Vandeman · · Last activity · 7 posts · 802 views

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Mountain Bikes
Published
6 December 2003
Last activity
19 December 2003
Original author
Mike Vandeman
Posts
7
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  1. January 23, 2001

    Helen Burke

    Re: Appeasing the Mountain Bikers

    Dear Helen:

    I would like to try to answer your excellent, oft-asked question: Shouldn't we give the
    mountain bikers some place to ride? As plausible as it sounds, I don't think it's a
    good idea.

    1. They have plenty of places to ride. They can ride on paved roads, without doing much harm.
    Millions of people enjoy this very pleasurable activity -- so much so that there are hundreds of
    clubs, races, etc. devoted to it.

    2. The Sierra Club's purpose is not to support and promote any particular form of recreation, but to
    support and promote conservation. Mountain biking has nothing to do with conservation, and in
    fact works against it.

    3. No matter how many trails are given to the mountain bikers, they are never satisfied! By the very
    nature of mountain biking, they traverse natural areas too quickly to fully appreciate what they
    are passing; consequently, they quickly get bored and want a new trail. This can also be seen in
    the fact that even in parks where 99% of the trails are open to bikes (e.g. Pleasanton Ridge
    Regional Park), they still ride off-trail and build illegal trails!

    4. Creating new trails (or widening existing trails) for mountain biking is not fair to the
    wildlife, who simply lose that much more habitat (not just the trail surface, since the presence
    of people drives them away from the area). It seems to be a general truism that whenever two
    groups of humans compromise, wildlife loses.

    5. If new trails are not constructed, it is not fair to the other trail users, who are driven off
    the trails due to the anxiety and real risks that sharing the trails with bikes brings. The
    mountain bikers call bike bans "unfair" and "not sharing", but actually, the only way everyone
    can enjoy natural areas is to ban machinery such as bikes.

    6. Mountain biking is a much heavier use of a park than hiking. It not only increases impacts on
    wildlife and trails, but it greatly increases the number of people in the park and the area they
    impact. Even land managers that allow mountain biking admit that it greatly increases the cost of
    maintaining the park (including a much greater need for "policing"😉.

    7. The only reason the Sierra Club considered supporting mountain biking was to gain the support of
    mountain bikers for protecting wildlands. But, predictably, the mountain bikers got the best of
    that "back room" deal. They make use of it to claim that the Sierra Club supports mountain
    biking. Meanwhile, they oppose wilderness designation, asking instead that "protected" lands be
    given a different designation (e.g. "National Monument"😉 that allows mountain biking, or that
    their favorite trails be excised from the official Wilderness. In other contexts, such as their
    newsgroups and email lists, they criticize the Club for being "anti-mountain biking", since our
    policy doesn't give them carte blanche. It's time to admit that we made a big mistake, and
    correct it. Just because someone is able to purchase a machine that lets them ride off-road, that
    is no reason that the public should be required to provide them a place to use it!

    Sincerely,

    Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D.

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    home.pacbell.netmjvande

  2. "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    January 23, 2001

    Helen Burke

    Re: Appeasing the Mountain Bikers

    Dear Helen:

    SNIP <

    The letter is three years old. How very "TROLL".

  3. "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    January 23, 2001

    Helen Burke

    Re: Appeasing the Mountain Bikers

    Dear Helen:

    I would like to try to answer your excellent, oft-asked question: Shouldn't we give the mountain
    bikers some place to ride? As plausible as


    it

    Quoted message said:

    sounds, I don't think it's a good idea. {snips}

    So why do you contradict yourself here (below)?

    Quoted message said:

    3. No matter how many trails are given to the mountain bikers, {snip}

    Which is it? Give us none, or give us some?

    Quoted message said:

    Sincerely,

    Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D.

    Why do you sign your name this way? It *IMPLIES* that your Ph.D. has something to do with
    conservation or environmentalism, rather than taste preferences in various ethnic groups. (Now
    *there's* a burning issue!)

    Your both illogical AND dishonest, Mike.

    Bill "all psychologists lie" S.

  4. Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    January 23, 2001

    Helen Burke

    Re: Appeasing the Mountain Bikers

    Dear Helen:

    I would like to try to answer your excellent, oft-asked question: Shouldn't we give the
    mountain bikers some place to ride? As plausible as it sounds, I don't think it's a good
    idea.

    1. They have plenty of places to ride. They can ride on paved roads, without doing much harm.
    Millions of people enjoy this very pleasurable activity -- so much so that there are hundreds
    of clubs, races, etc. devoted to it.

    2. The Sierra Club's purpose is not to support and promote any particular form of recreation, but
    to support and promote conservation. Mountain biking has nothing to do with conservation, and
    in fact works against it.

    3. No matter how many trails are given to the mountain bikers, they are never satisfied! By the
    very nature of mountain biking, they traverse natural areas too quickly to fully appreciate
    what they are passing; consequently, they quickly get bored and want a new trail. This can also
    be seen in the fact that even in parks where 99% of the trails are open to bikes (e.g.
    Pleasanton Ridge Regional Park), they still ride off-trail and build illegal trails!

    4. Creating new trails (or widening existing trails) for mountain biking is not fair to the
    wildlife, who simply lose that much more habitat (not just the trail surface, since the
    presence of people drives them away from the area). It seems to be a general truism that
    whenever two groups of humans compromise, wildlife loses.

    5. If new trails are not constructed, it is not fair to the other trail users, who are driven off
    the trails due to the anxiety and real risks that sharing the trails with bikes brings. The
    mountain bikers call bike bans "unfair" and "not sharing", but actually, the only way everyone
    can enjoy natural areas is to ban machinery such as bikes.

    6. Mountain biking is a much heavier use of a park than hiking. It not only increases impacts on
    wildlife and trails, but it greatly increases the number of people in the park and the area
    they impact. Even land managers that allow mountain biking admit that it greatly increases the
    cost of maintaining the park (including a much greater need for "policing"😉.

    7. The only reason the Sierra Club considered supporting mountain biking was to gain the support
    of mountain bikers for protecting wildlands. But, predictably, the mountain bikers got the best
    of that "back room" deal. They make use of it to claim that the Sierra Club supports mountain
    biking. Meanwhile, they oppose wilderness designation, asking instead that "protected" lands be
    given a different designation (e.g. "National Monument"😉 that allows mountain biking, or that
    their favorite trails be excised from the official Wilderness. In other contexts, such as their
    newsgroups and email lists, they criticize the Club for being "anti-mountain biking", since our
    policy doesn't give them carte blanche. It's time to admit that we made a big mistake, and
    correct it. Just because someone is able to purchase a machine that lets them ride off-road,
    that is no reason that the public should be required to provide them a place to use it!

    Sincerely,

    Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D.

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    home.pacbell.netmjvande

    I think I know why this guy is so rotten: he can't ride. That's it - he can't ride a mountain bike.
    He musta endo'd or puked after a long climb or, or, or I know - his buddies got tired of his whining
    and dropped his punk ass then it started raining and he was lost and started crying. That's it he
    can't ride! Sissy pants...Sissy pants...TeeHeeHee!

  5. "Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    January 23, 2001

    Helen Burke

    Re: Appeasing the Mountain Bikers

    Dear Helen:

    I would like to try to answer your excellent, oft-asked question: Shouldn't we give the mountain
    bikers some place to ride? As plausible


    as

    Quoted message said:

    it

    Quoted message said:

    sounds, I don't think it's a good idea. {snips}

    So why do you contradict yourself here (below)?

    Quoted message said:

    3. No matter how many trails are given to the mountain bikers, {snip}

    Which is it? Give us none, or give us some?

    Quoted message said:

    Sincerely,

    Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D.

    Why do you sign your name this way? It *IMPLIES* that your Ph.D. has something to do with
    conservation or environmentalism, rather than taste preferences in various ethnic groups. (Now
    *there's* a burning issue!)

    Your both illogical AND dishonest, Mike.

    ***You're*** (just seeing who's paying attention 🙂

    Quoted message said:


    Bill "all psychologists lie" S.

  6. On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 22:45:34 GMT, "Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    ."Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    ."]news:[email hidden]... .> "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message .> "]news:[email hidden]... .> > January 23, 2001 .> > .> > Helen
    Burke .> > .> > Re: Appeasing the Mountain Bikers .> > .> > Dear Helen: .> > .> > I would like to
    try to answer your excellent, oft-asked question: .> > Shouldn't we give the mountain bikers some
    place to ride? As plausible .as .> it .> > sounds, I don't think it's a good idea. {snips} .> .> So
    why do you contradict yourself here (below)? .> .> > 3. No matter how many trails are given to the
    mountain bikers, {snip} .> .> Which is it? Give us none, or give us some? .> .> > Sincerely, .> > .>

    Quoted message said:

    Michael J. Vandeman, .> > Ph.D. .> .> Why do you sign your name this way? It *IMPLIES* that your


    Ph.D. has .> something to do with conservation or environmentalism, rather than taste .> preferences
    in various ethnic groups. (Now *there's* a burning issue!) .> .> Your both illogical AND dishonest,
    Mike. . .***You're*** (just seeing who's paying attention 🙂 .> .> Bill "all psychologists lie" S.

    Did you say something?
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    home.pacbell.netmjvande

  7. "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    January 23, 2001

    Helen Burke

    Re: Appeasing the Mountain Bikers

    Dear Helen: Michael J. Vandeman, (FAKE)Ph.D.

    home.pacball.netmjvande

    You haven't posted the reply, I guess they think the same as I do. You're a fruitcake.

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