Appeal for GPS tracks

Skyewalk said:

Hi,

I help run http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/, an ever growing website
with over 200 free walking routes in the Scottish Highlands.

We're slowly making all the routes available as GPX (and Quo) route
downloads, which are all free to use. It would be of great help if
anyone was willing to share their Highlands GPX routes or GPS tracks
with us. They must be actual walked tracks and not routes drawn as
waypoints on the map.

If you would be willing to share some of these files with us, please
let us know by using the contact form on our site.

Many thanks
Paul Webster
walkhighlands.co.uk

And GPS-Tracks for the Belgium Ardennes (http://andennenwandelen.nl)
are also very welcome! You can mail them to the emailadress on my
website!

Jacqueline

"Skyewalk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I help run http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/, an ever growing website
with over 200 free walking routes in the Scottish Highlands.

We're slowly making all the routes available as GPX (and Quo) route
downloads, which are all free to use. It would be of great help if
anyone was willing to share their Highlands GPX routes or GPS tracks
with us. They must be actual walked tracks and not routes drawn as
waypoints on the map.

If you would be willing to share some of these files with us, please
let us know by using the contact form on our site.

Many thanks
Paul Webster
walkhighlands.co.uk

There's various options for sharing routes using GPS technology.
GPS routes, tracks and lists of waypoints could have a role.

How many people have tried using someone else's track or route?
Were you satisfied that it provided something of value?
Is bare GPS information without description valuable in its own right?

The site I manage MountainViews.ie provides some GPS data already such as
the positions of the 840 summits over 400m in Ireland which is why I am
interested.

Simon Stewart
www.simonstewart.ie

Quoted message said:

sgrifennodd "Simon Stewart" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There's various options for sharing routes using GPS technology.
GPS routes, tracks and lists of waypoints could have a role.

How many people have tried using someone else's track or route?
Were you satisfied that it provided something of value?
Is bare GPS information without description valuable in its own right?

The site I manage MountainViews.ie provides some GPS data already such as
the positions of the 840 summits over 400m in Ireland which is why I am
interested.

Simon Stewart
www.simonstewart.ie

I think the GPS routes are useful for loading into digital mapping software
so you can see the suggested route. This is better in some respects than a
description. I need to see a route on a map as that's essential if you end
up needing to do any nav - a description can be useful to explain specific
problem sections such as scrambles or possibly the best approach to a
location. The GPS file is basically a shortcut to a route card, where in the
past we'd have had to plot all the GRs on the map to see the route we can
now see it instantly on our screen! It has an advantage over being on a
bitmap map as the licencing might be difficult for the webmaster to obtain
(I reckon most do it for the love of it) and you can also adjust the route
to fit into your own plans if it's a data file.

I'm looking to incorporate a way of viewing GPX files on my website via
Googlemaps - but not got around to it yet! Anyone know if it's easy or is it
a faff as i've got loads of GPX files and would not want to spend weeks on
it.

Files that provide specific waypoints are very useful for uploading to the
GPS, especially summit ones. It can help flesh out the view on the GPS as
you can see the route going from peak to peak. I'm, sure if i go to walk in
Ireland (on the to-do list!) i'll hunt down your waypoints and they'll
likely be very useful.

T Dave R

--

What hills have i been up recently?
www.walkeryri.org.uk

I use GPX files and Google maps on my site http://gpssharing.com it is
'easy' there are plenty of examples available on the google site, but
there again I am a software guy. You will tear your hair out at times,
especially if you want it to work on several browsers, IE is the
worst. Have a look at http://www.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/
that wil lget you started.

I find sites like mine are useful to find a new walk, but I would
not rely purely on the GPX track, as if the person got lost on the
walk you will be blindly following their tracks.

The google maps are reasonable not as good as the OS 1:25000 but you
can download the GPX track and display it on your own mapping software
instead

Ted

T Dave R said:

sgrifennodd "Simon Stewart" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There's various options for sharing routes using GPS technology.
GPS routes, tracks and lists of waypoints could have a role.

Quoted message said:

How many people have tried using someone else's track or route?
Were you satisfied that it provided something of value?
Is bare GPS information without description valuable in its own right?

Quoted message said:

The site I manage MountainViews.ie provides some GPS data already such as
the positions of the 840 summits over 400m in Ireland which is why I am
interested.

Quoted message said:

Simon Stewart
www.simonstewart.ie

I think the GPS routes are useful for loading into digital mapping software
so you can see the suggested route. This is better in some respects than a
description. I need to see a route on a map as that's essential if you end
up needing to do any nav - a description can be useful to explain specific
problem sections such as scrambles or possibly the best approach to a
location. The GPS file is basically a shortcut to a route card, where in the
past we'd have had to plot all the GRs on the map to see the route we can
now see it instantly on our screen! It has an advantage over being on a
bitmap map as the licencing might be difficult for the webmaster to obtain
(I reckon most do it for the love of it) and you can also adjust the route
to fit into your own plans if it's a data file.

I'm looking to incorporate a way of viewing GPX files on my website via
Googlemaps - but not got around to it yet! Anyone know if it's easy or is it
a faff as i've got loads of GPX files and would not want to spend weeks on
it.

Files that provide specific waypoints are very useful for uploading to the
GPS, especially summit ones. It can help flesh out the view on the GPS as
you can see the route going from peak to peak. I'm, sure if i go to walk in
Ireland (on the to-do list!) i'll hunt down your waypoints and they'll
likely be very useful.

T Dave R

--

What hills have i been up recently?www.walkeryri.org.uk

ted said:

I use GPX files and Google maps on my sitehttp://gpssharing.comit is
'easy' there are plenty of examples available on the google site, but
there again I am a software guy. You will tear your hair out at times,
especially if you want it to work on several browsers, IE is the
worst. Have a look athttp://www.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/
that wil lget you started.

I find sites like mine are useful to find a new walk, but I would
not rely purely on the GPX track, as if the person got lost on the
walk you will be blindly following their tracks.

The google maps are reasonable not as good as the OS 1:25000 but you
can download the GPX track and display it on your own mapping software
instead

Ted

T Dave R said:

sgrifennodd "Simon Stewart" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There's various options for sharing routes using GPS technology.
GPS routes, tracks and lists of waypoints could have a role.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How many people have tried using someone else's track or route?
Were you satisfied that it provided something of value?
Is bare GPS information without description valuable in its own right?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The site I manage MountainViews.ie provides some GPS data already such as
the positions of the 840 summits over 400m in Ireland which is why I am
interested.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Simon Stewart
www.simonstewart.ie

Quoted message said:

I think the GPS routes are useful for loading into digital mapping software
so you can see the suggested route. This is better in some respects than a
description. I need to see a route on a map as that's essential if you end
up needing to do any nav - a description can be useful to explain specific
problem sections such as scrambles or possibly the best approach to a
location. The GPS file is basically a shortcut to a route card, where in the
past we'd have had to plot all the GRs on the map to see the route we can
now see it instantly on our screen! It has an advantage over being on a
bitmap map as the licencing might be difficult for the webmaster to obtain
(I reckon most do it for the love of it) and you can also adjust the route
to fit into your own plans if it's a data file.

Quoted message said:

I'm looking to incorporate a way of viewing GPX files on my website via
Googlemaps - but not got around to it yet! Anyone know if it's easy or is it
a faff as i've got loads of GPX files and would not want to spend weeks on
it.

Quoted message said:

Files that provide specific waypoints are very useful for uploading to the
GPS, especially summit ones. It can help flesh out the view on the GPS as
you can see the route going from peak to peak. I'm, sure if i go to walk in
Ireland (on the to-do list!) i'll hunt down your waypoints and they'll
likely be very useful.

Quoted message said:

T Dave R

Quoted message said:

--

Quoted message said:

What hills have i been up recently?www.walkeryri.org.uk- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I agree, I don't think GPX tracks of peoples walks on their own are
particularly useful. I use the tracks to create a 'route file' GPX
that has been cleaned up and contains what I think is the most useful
combination of waypoints for actually loading into your GPS and
walking the route.

If anyone could give any feedback on using the waypoint files on my
site http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk I'd be delighted (the site already
has OS maps with the routes marked on, so I'm hoping the files are
more useful than just to show the route on your screen!)

Yes, if you edit the GPX file and manually clean it up then I would
agreee with you.

Overlaying the GPS track onto a OS map would be perfect, assuming you
have manged to get permission from the Ordnance Survey to use their
maps. The last time I checked the costs were far too high.

Ted

Skyewalk said:

ted said:

I use GPX files and Google maps on my sitehttp://gpssharing.comitis
'easy' there are plenty of examples available on the google site, but
there again I am a software guy. You will tear your hair out at times,
especially if you want it to work on several browsers, IE is the
worst. Have a look athttp://www.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/
that wil lget you started.

Quoted message said:

I find sites like mine are useful to find a new walk, but I would
not rely purely on the GPX track, as if the person got lost on the
walk you will be blindly following their tracks.

Quoted message said:

The google maps are reasonable not as good as the OS 1:25000 but you
can download the GPX track and display it on your own mapping software
instead

Quoted message said:

Ted

Quoted message said:

On Jun 29, 5:13 pm, "T Dave R" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sgrifennodd "Simon Stewart" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> There's various options for sharing routes using GPS technology.
> GPS routes, tracks and lists of waypoints could have a role.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> How many people have tried using someone else's track or route?
> Were you satisfied that it provided something of value?
> Is bare GPS information without description valuable in its own right?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> The site I manage MountainViews.ie provides some GPS data already such as
> the positions of the 840 summits over 400m in Ireland which is why I am
> interested.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Simon Stewart
>www.simonstewart.ie

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think the GPS routes are useful for loading into digital mapping software
so you can see the suggested route. This is better in some respects than a
description. I need to see a route on a map as that's essential if you end
up needing to do any nav - a description can be useful to explain specific
problem sections such as scrambles or possibly the best approach to a
location. The GPS file is basically a shortcut to a route card, where in the
past we'd have had to plot all the GRs on the map to see the route we can
now see it instantly on our screen! It has an advantage over being on a
bitmap map as the licencing might be difficult for the webmaster to obtain
(I reckon most do it for the love of it) and you can also adjust the route
to fit into your own plans if it's a data file.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm looking to incorporate a way of viewing GPX files on my website via
Googlemaps - but not got around to it yet! Anyone know if it's easy or is it
a faff as i've got loads of GPX files and would not want to spend weeks on
it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Files that provide specific waypoints are very useful for uploading to the
GPS, especially summit ones. It can help flesh out the view on the GPS as
you can see the route going from peak to peak. I'm, sure if i go to walk in
Ireland (on the to-do list!) i'll hunt down your waypoints and they'll
likely be very useful.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

T Dave R

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

--

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What hills have i been up recently?www.walkeryri.org.uk-Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

I agree, I don't think GPX tracks of peoples walks on their own are
particularly useful. I use the tracks to create a 'route file' GPX
that has been cleaned up and contains what I think is the most useful
combination of waypoints for actually loading into your GPS and
walking the route.

If anyone could give any feedback on using the waypoint files on my
sitehttp://www.walkhighlands.co.ukI'd be delighted (the site already
has OS maps with the routes marked on, so I'm hoping the files are
more useful than just to show the route on your screen!)

ted said:

Yes, if you edit the GPX file and manually clean it up then I would
agreee with you.

Overlaying the GPS track onto a OS map would be perfect, assuming you
have manged to get permission from the Ordnance Survey to use their
maps. The last time I checked the costs were far too high.

Ted

Skyewalk said:

On 30 Jun, 07:43, ted <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I use GPX files and Google maps on my sitehttp://gpssharing.comitis
'easy' there are plenty of examples available on the google site, but
there again I am a software guy. You will tear your hair out at times,
especially if you want it to work on several browsers, IE is the
worst. Have a look athttp://www.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/
that wil lget you started.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I find sites like mine are useful to find a new walk, but I would
not rely purely on the GPX track, as if the person got lost on the
walk you will be blindly following their tracks.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The google maps are reasonable not as good as the OS 1:25000 but you
can download the GPX track and display it on your own mapping software
instead

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ted

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 29, 5:13 pm, "T Dave R" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> sgrifennodd "Simon Stewart" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
> newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > There's various options for sharing routes using GPS technology.
> > GPS routes, tracks and lists of waypoints could have a role.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > How many people have tried using someone else's track or route?
> > Were you satisfied that it provided something of value?
> > Is bare GPS information without description valuable in its own right?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > The site I manage MountainViews.ie provides some GPS data already such as
> > the positions of the 840 summits over 400m in Ireland which is why I am
> > interested.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Simon Stewart
> >www.simonstewart.ie

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I think the GPS routes are useful for loading into digital mapping software
> so you can see the suggested route. This is better in some respects than a
> description. I need to see a route on a map as that's essential if you end
> up needing to do any nav - a description can be useful to explain specific
> problem sections such as scrambles or possibly the best approach to a
> location. The GPS file is basically a shortcut to a route card, where in the
> past we'd have had to plot all the GRs on the map to see the route we can
> now see it instantly on our screen! It has an advantage over being on a
> bitmap map as the licencing might be difficult for the webmaster to obtain
> (I reckon most do it for the love of it) and you can also adjust the route
> to fit into your own plans if it's a data file.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I'm looking to incorporate a way of viewing GPX files on my website via
> Googlemaps - but not got around to it yet! Anyone know if it's easy or is it
> a faff as i've got loads of GPX files and would not want to spend weeks on
> it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Files that provide specific waypoints are very useful for uploading to the
> GPS, especially summit ones. It can help flesh out the view on the GPS as
> you can see the route going from peak to peak. I'm, sure if i go to walk in
> Ireland (on the to-do list!) i'll hunt down your waypoints and they'll
> likely be very useful.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> T Dave R

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> --

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> What hills have i been up recently?www.walkeryri.org.uk-Hidequoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

I agree, I don't think GPX tracks of peoples walks on their own are
particularly useful. I use the tracks to create a 'route file' GPX
that has been cleaned up and contains what I think is the most useful
combination of waypoints for actually loading into your GPS and
walking the route.

Quoted message said:

If anyone could give any feedback on using the waypoint files on my
sitehttp://www.walkhighlands.co.ukI'dbe delighted (the site already
has OS maps with the routes marked on, so I'm hoping the files are
more useful than just to show the route on your screen!)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We do have OS maps on our website, but to keep the costs down we
manually scan them in, and then draw the routes on, which makes the
licence alot more affordable. Rather a time-consuming approach, but
for the amount saved I think the odd bit of 'dark-map-crease-area' is
a price well worth paying!

It is a great pity you can't buy digital OS maps at reasonable prices
and use them on your web site. Years ago I wrote a simple prog to
overlay a GPS track file onto a scanned image of a map. But as I
prefer to do things legally I never used it, plus you need to scan the
map accurately, specify the grid ref for each corner etc.

I think programs like GPS Trackmaker freeware from http://gpstm.com/
have this facility these days.But if you have a licence then you
might have tje 'legal' right to download tiles from Get-a-Map and
stich them together, but knowing the OS I doubt that would be legal!

BTW I have seen your site before, I gave the link to a friend who
planned to go walking in Skye a while back.

Ted

Skyewalk said:

ted said:

Yes, if you edit the GPX file and manually clean it up then I would
agreee with you.

Quoted message said:

Overlaying the GPS track onto a OS map would be perfect, assuming you
have manged to get permission from the Ordnance Survey to use their
maps. The last time I checked the costs were far too high.

Quoted message said:

Ted

Quoted message said:

On Jun 30, 9:19 am, Skyewalk <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 30 Jun, 07:43, ted <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I use GPX files and Google maps on my sitehttp://gpssharing.comitis
> 'easy' there are plenty of examples available on the google site, but
> there again I am a software guy. You will tear your hair out at times,
> especially if you want it to work on several browsers, IE is the
> worst. Have a look athttp://www.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/
> that wil lget you started.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I find sites like mine are useful to find a new walk, but I would
> not rely purely on the GPX track, as if the person got lost on the
> walk you will be blindly following their tracks.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> The google maps are reasonable not as good as the OS 1:25000 but you
> can download the GPX track and display it on your own mapping software
> instead

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Ted

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Jun 29, 5:13 pm, "T Dave R" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > sgrifennodd "Simon Stewart" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
> > newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > There's various options for sharing routes using GPS technology.
> > > GPS routes, tracks and lists of waypoints could have a role.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > How many people have tried using someone else's track or route?
> > > Were you satisfied that it provided something of value?
> > > Is bare GPS information without description valuable in its own right?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > The site I manage MountainViews.ie provides some GPS data already such as
> > > the positions of the 840 summits over 400m in Ireland which is why I am
> > > interested.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > Simon Stewart
> > >www.simonstewart.ie

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > I think the GPS routes are useful for loading into digital mapping software
> > so you can see the suggested route. This is better in some respects than a
> > description. I need to see a route on a map as that's essential if you end
> > up needing to do any nav - a description can be useful to explain specific
> > problem sections such as scrambles or possibly the best approach to a
> > location. The GPS file is basically a shortcut to a route card, where in the
> > past we'd have had to plot all the GRs on the map to see the route we can
> > now see it instantly on our screen! It has an advantage over being on a
> > bitmap map as the licencing might be difficult for the webmaster to obtain
> > (I reckon most do it for the love of it) and you can also adjust the route
> > to fit into your own plans if it's a data file.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > I'm looking to incorporate a way of viewing GPX files on my website via
> > Googlemaps - but not got around to it yet! Anyone know if it's easy or is it
> > a faff as i've got loads of GPX files and would not want to spend weeks on
> > it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Files that provide specific waypoints are very useful for uploading to the
> > GPS, especially summit ones. It can help flesh out the view on the GPS as
> > you can see the route going from peak to peak. I'm, sure if i go to walk in
> > Ireland (on the to-do list!) i'll hunt down your waypoints and they'll
> > likely be very useful.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > T Dave R

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > --

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > What hills have i been up recently?www.walkeryri.org.uk-Hidequotedtext -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> - Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I agree, I don't think GPX tracks of peoples walks on their own are
particularly useful. I use the tracks to create a 'route file' GPX
that has been cleaned up and contains what I think is the most useful
combination of waypoints for actually loading into your GPS and
walking the route.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If anyone could give any feedback on using the waypoint files on my
sitehttp://www.walkhighlands.co.ukI'dbedelighted (the site already
has OS maps with the routes marked on, so I'm hoping the files are
more useful than just to show the route on your screen!)- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

We do have OS maps on our website, but to keep the costs down we
manually scan them in, and then draw the routes on, which makes the
licence alot more affordable. Rather a time-consuming approach, but
for the amount saved I think the odd bit of 'dark-map-crease-area' is
a price well worth paying!

Quoted message said:

We do have OS maps on our website, but to keep the costs down we manually scan them in...

As opposed to...?

Quoted message said:

... and then draw the routes on, which makes the licence alot more affordable.

I don't follow this, the technical process you use to obtain the displayed image is irrelevant as
far as the license fees are concerned. We have had discussions about this dratted licensing before
and for walking websites, there are two cases:

Websites with no commercial aspect (no financial gain from advertising, subscriptions, download
charges etc.):- Paper Map Copying License 47.50 + VAT per year, allowing the unlimited display of OS
map segments.

Websites with commercial gain:- Internet License, variable cost depending on number of images
displayed, plus restrictions on map area per image.

In either case it doesn't matter *how* you get the map image into displayable form. Assuming you
have the digital map of the area in question, you can obtain it directly on the PC, no need for
scanning. The term 'Paper Map Copying License' is just the technical/legal name for that particular
license - it doesn't literally mean that you can only copy paper maps.

-- GeoffC

Take out TheEnemy to email me

http://v-g.me.uk

ted wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Overlaying the GPS track onto a OS map would be perfect, assuming you
have manged to get permission from the Ordnance Survey to use their
maps. The last time I checked the costs were far too high.

[...]

It is, of course, possible to overlay OS grid lines onto Google Earth
and then plot your track and save the resulting image.

Here's a walk I did in the Avebury area last week. I think anyone with a
map would be able to repeat this walk without too much difficulty. All
in OS zone SU.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/7056/wansmapjp4.jpg

Regards, Nick.

--
Nick Hopton,
Caversham, Reading, England.

GeoffC said:

Quoted message said:

We do have OS maps on our website, but to keep the costs down we manually scan them in...

As opposed to...?

Quoted message said:

... and then draw the routes on, which makes the licence alot more affordable.

I don't follow this, the technical process you use to obtain the displayed image is irrelevant as
far as the license fees are concerned. We have had discussions about this dratted licensing before
and for walking websites, there are two cases:

Websites with no commercial aspect (no financial gain from advertising, subscriptions, download
charges etc.):- Paper Map Copying License 47.50 + VAT per year, allowing the unlimited display of OS
map segments.

Websites with commercial gain:- Internet License, variable cost depending on number of images
displayed, plus restrictions on map area per image.

In either case it doesn't matter *how* you get the map image into displayable form. Assuming you
have the digital map of the area in question, you can obtain it directly on the PC, no need for
scanning. The term 'Paper Map Copying License' is just the technical/legal name for that particular
license - it doesn't literally mean that you can only copy paper maps.

-- GeoffC

Take out TheEnemy to email me

http://v-g.me.uk

Hi Geoff

That's not right, unfortunately. We've had several very L O N G
discussions with the OS about this, as I agreed with you and think
_how_ you generate the map for showing on your website is irrelevant.
But after initially going along with this the OS had a change of heart
and have since told me (in writing, and from several different people
as I have kept pestering to make sure since they had told some people
it was ok) that the paper licence ONLY licences you to show scans of
paper maps.

I had wanted to use screen dumps of Quo maps, but the OS say this is
impossible as there is no licence available to permit this nor will
they create one. And the same goes for Memory Map maps - it's a non-
starter. The only circumstances in which you can show OS maps from
these products are on a single page and to demonstrate and promote the
mapping software itself - not to illustrate a walk or use the map in
any way.

Instead I'd have to buy the digital maps all over again under a
different arrangement. Yes, I've bought a paper licence.... I've
bought the maps on paper .... I've bought the maps in Quo... and they
would still want me to buy them yet again!

If you've been told anything else and are displaying maps using it I'd
ask to OS for a note in writing (their emails all contain a disclaimer
stating they don't have to stand by anything in the email!)

Skyewalk said:

Hi Geoff

That's not right, unfortunately. We've had several very L O N G
discussions with the OS about this, as I agreed with you and think
_how_ you generate the map for showing on your website is irrelevant.
But after initially going along with this the OS had a change of heart
and have since told me (in writing, and from several different people
as I have kept pestering to make sure since they had told some people
it was ok) that the paper licence ONLY licences you to show scans of
paper maps.

I had wanted to use screen dumps of Quo maps, but the OS say this is
impossible as there is no licence available to permit this nor will
they create one. And the same goes for Memory Map maps - it's a non-
starter. The only circumstances in which you can show OS maps from
these products are on a single page and to demonstrate and promote the
mapping software itself - not to illustrate a walk or use the map in
any way.

Good grief, they seem to think they can invent terms and conditions at will.

Their own web page specifically states for this (non-commercial) case:-
---------
'I am a walker wishing to publish my walks on the internet – what licence would I need?'

If publishing more than 10 images you will not be able to use the Get-a-map service, you will
require a Paper Map Copying licence and you will need to purchase the mapping required.
---------

Shoot the [censored].

-- GeoffC

Take out TheEnemy to email me

http://v-g.me.uk

I see the prices are still 'Per Year', but they do seem less than they
used to be!

Ted

GeoffC said:

Quoted message said:

We do have OS maps on our website, but to keep the costs down we manually scan them in...

As opposed to...?

Quoted message said:

... and then draw the routes on, which makes the licence alot more affordable.

I don't follow this, the technical process you use to obtain the displayed image is irrelevant as
far as the license fees are concerned. We have had discussions about this dratted licensing before
and for walking websites, there are two cases:

Websites with no commercial aspect (no financial gain from advertising, subscriptions, download
charges etc.):- Paper Map Copying License 47.50 + VAT per year, allowing the unlimited display of OS
map segments.

Websites with commercial gain:- Internet License, variable cost depending on number of images
displayed, plus restrictions on map area per image.

In either case it doesn't matter *how* you get the map image into displayable form. Assuming you
have the digital map of the area in question, you can obtain it directly on the PC, no need for
scanning. The term 'Paper Map Copying License' is just the technical/legal name for that particular
license - it doesn't literally mean that you can only copy paper maps.

-- GeoffC

Take out TheEnemy to email me

http://v-g.me.uk

ted said:

I see the prices are still 'Per Year', but they do seem less than they
used to be!

Ted

GeoffC said:

Quoted message said:

We do have OS maps on our website, but to keep the costs down we manually scan them in...

Quoted message said:

As opposed to...?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

... and then draw the routes on, which makes the licence alot more affordable.

Quoted message said:

I don't follow this, the technical process you use to obtain the displayed image is irrelevant as
far as the license fees are concerned. We have had discussions about this dratted licensing before
and for walking websites, there are two cases:

Quoted message said:

Websites with no commercial aspect (no financial gain from advertising, subscriptions, download
charges etc.):- Paper Map Copying License 47.50 + VAT per year, allowing the unlimited display of OS
map segments.

Quoted message said:

Websites with commercial gain:- Internet License, variable cost depending on number of images
displayed, plus restrictions on map area per image.

Quoted message said:

In either case it doesn't matter *how* you get the map image into displayable form. Assuming you
have the digital map of the area in question, you can obtain it directly on the PC, no need for
scanning. The term 'Paper Map Copying License' is just the technical/legal name for that particular
license - it doesn't literally mean that you can only copy paper maps.

Quoted message said:

-- GeoffC

Quoted message said:

Take out TheEnemy to email me

Quoted message said:

http://v-g.me.uk- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They can and do invent terms and conditions at will! The one good
point is the commercial bit. Commercial websites are ok as long as
there is no gain from the mapping. That means (I've clarified this in
writing, as otherwise OS would change their mind!) that you can have
adverts on your site as long as there are no adverts on the same web
PAGE as the map, and as long as you aren't selling the map (no need to
pay for access to the site etc.).

If anyone has been told anything else I'd love to know.

Skyewalk said:

They can and do invent terms and conditions at will!

Yes, of course they do, I didn't phrase that very well!. I meant that they change the T&C for *one
particular licensee* at a whim. Even after explicitly telling him one thing and taking the money on
that basis, they tell him something else a while later and say the license isn't valid for what he's
doing.

I can't find it now, but fairly recently I read an angry report on a website or blog by someone who
had suffered this way, and he has totally given up on the OS - I think he has switched to a free
(GoogleMaps?) based solution.

Quoted message said:

If anyone has been told anything else I'd love to know.

I'll get back to you on this after I make a few enquiries. I made my assertion in total confidence,
that's shattered it!.

-- GeoffC

Take out TheEnemy to email me

http://v-g.me.uk

The message <[email hidden]>
from GeoffC <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

I can't find it now, but fairly recently I read an angry report on a
website or blog by someone who
had suffered this way, and he has totally given up on the OS - I think
he has switched to a free
(GoogleMaps?) based solution.

I suspect it was Andy Whiteman - www.whoownsscotland.org.uk

Andy has taken all the maps off the site and has fled to Ethiopia,
hoping that the OS won't persue him that far!

Richard

Nick Hopton said:

It is, of course, possible to overlay OS grid lines onto Google Earth
and then plot your track and save the resulting image.

Er, how? I can't see an option to do that.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/weblog/
Latest Blog Post: Why Do You Walk?
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/weblog/outdoor-opinions/why-do-you-walk/

Skyewalk said:

On 30 Jun, 07:43, ted <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I find sites like mine are useful to find a new walk, but I would
not rely purely on the GPX track, as if the person got lost on the
walk you will be blindly following their tracks.

Indeed. And if they lost reception the GPS could create that "spider's web"
nonsense too.

Quoted message said:

I agree, I don't think GPX tracks of peoples walks on their own are
particularly useful. I use the tracks to create a 'route file' GPX
that has been cleaned up and contains what I think is the most useful
combination of waypoints for actually loading into your GPS and
walking the route.

Absolutely. Either correct the obvious track errors, or trace it and create
a completely new track, or route. I'd never want to submit an actual track
of mine. I've never walked what I consider to be a "perfect" track. Even if
reception is not a problem I often wander off track to take photos or simply
wander around a small area to find the best viewpoint. I wouldn't want all
those tiny meanderings to be included.

I think a published downloadable route/track should be an "ideal"
route/track that doesn't include all the usual zig-zags and meanderings that
invariably occur. I don't think it needs to be absolutely perfect, provided
that the key points (junctions, summits, etc.) are. I think a corrected
tracing of an actual track is probably best, combined with accurate key
waypoints. Alternatively, a route based on an actual track.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/weblog/
Latest Blog Post: Why Do You Walk?
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/weblog/outdoor-opinions/why-do-you-walk/

Paul Saunders said:

Skyewalk said:

ted said:

I find sites like mine are useful to find a new walk, but I would
not rely purely on the GPX track, as if the person got lost on the
walk you will be blindly following their tracks.

Indeed. And if they lost reception the GPS could create that "spider's web"
nonsense too.

Quoted message said:

I agree, I don't think GPX tracks of peoples walks on their own are
particularly useful. I use the tracks to create a 'route file' GPX
that has been cleaned up and contains what I think is the most useful
combination of waypoints for actually loading into your GPS and
walking the route.

Absolutely. Either correct the obvious track errors, or trace it and create
a completely new track, or route. I'd never want to submit an actual track
of mine. I've never walked what I consider to be a "perfect" track. Even if
reception is not a problem I often wander off track to take photos or simply
wander around a small area to find the best viewpoint. I wouldn't want all
those tiny meanderings to be included.

I think a published downloadable route/track should be an "ideal"
route/track that doesn't include all the usual zig-zags and meanderings that
invariably occur. I don't think it needs to be absolutely perfect, provided
that the key points (junctions, summits, etc.) are. I think a corrected
tracing of an actual track is probably best, combined with accurate key
waypoints. Alternatively, a route based on an actual track.

Paul
--http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/weblog/
Latest Blog Post: Why Do You Walk?http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/weblog/outdoor-opinions/why-do-you-...

I agree entirely - I use the track as a base view on the OS map and
then use it to 'trace' the ideal route over it - so I'm glad to hear
your view.

Now I just need to find someone who has actually downloaded one of my
tracks and tried to use it to walk a new route....