apollo 13 type question

On May 4, 10:16 pm, "Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Remember in Apollo 13, they had to build a CO2 canister with only what
was on board. So I've been rebuilding a road bike, and this is what I've
done, and where should I go? I put an ultegra bb in, and attached an
ultegre triple crank to it. And I put on an ultegra triple fd on it. These
were parts I had around the house. Also I have a pair of mirage 9 sp ergo
shifters, an old shimano 600 rd. Now I'd like to have a 9sp bike. Will the
Mirage shifter work on the shimano triple crank? Do I have to buy some
campy rd to work the rd in 9sp? Or can I use the old 600 rd and keep it an
8sp? Thanks, if anyone has any ideas.

Hi there.

If the Mirage Ergos are pre-2007 they will work with the Ultegra
triple and front derailleur.

To keep it 9 spd you need either a Campy rear derailleur or a Shift-
Mate for your Shimano rear derailleur. 9 spd also requires a 9 spd
spaced cassette and a 9 spd chain.

My understanding is that the Ergos will shift a Shimano rear
derailleur with an 8 spd cluster without modification other than
clamping the cable via the Hub-Dub method.

You say you have a Shimano 600 rear derailleur. That could be one of
many different designs al the way back to the Shimano 600 EX friction
unit. If it is a newer 60 you should not have a problem.

If you have 8 spd cassette and chain on hand it will cost much less to
stay with 8 spd.

If your cassette and chain are 9 spd you might consider getting a
Mirage rear derailleur just to keep things simple.

Cheers from Peter

In article <[email hidden]>,

Callistus Valerius said:

Remember in Apollo 13, they had to build a CO2 canister with only what
was on board. So I've been rebuilding a road bike, and this is what I've
done, and where should I go? I put an ultegra bb in, and attached an
ultegre triple crank to it. And I put on an ultegra triple fd on it. These
were parts I had around the house. Also I have a pair of mirage 9 sp ergo
shifters, an old shimano 600 rd. Now I'd like to have a 9sp bike. Will the
Mirage shifter work on the shimano triple crank? Do I have to buy some
campy rd to work the rd in 9sp? Or can I use the old 600 rd and keep it an
8sp? Thanks, if anyone has any ideas.

I run a Shimagnolo drive train myself.

In your situation, I would acquire a Campy 9s rear derailer, preferably
the early version of said. That will let you run Campy shifters pushing
chain across Shimano cassettes, which I see as the best of all worlds
(because Campy shifters are nice, and Shimano 9s cassettes and wheels
are both plentiful).

Here's the canonical mix and match page for drivetrains:

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

Inexplicably, not a Sheldon page.

Note that my proposed combo has an imperceptible 0.01 mm (one hundredth
of a millimetre) error per cog. Adjusted properly, this means no more
than 0.04 mm of centreing error in the worst cogs, if you centre the
drivetrain perfectly on the middle cog.

You may also enjoy checking the various Shift Mate options. Shift Mate
model 3 or 4 should work with your shifter, derailer, and a Shimano 9
cassette for $35.

This is probably cheaper than the cost of a Campy derailer, especially
if you are in a hurry.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Quoted message said:

I run a Shimagnolo drive train myself.

In your situation, I would acquire a Campy 9s rear derailer, preferably
the early version of said. That will let you run Campy shifters pushing
chain across Shimano cassettes, which I see as the best of all worlds
(because Campy shifters are nice, and Shimano 9s cassettes and wheels
are both plentiful).

Here's the canonical mix and match page for drivetrains:

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

Inexplicably, not a Sheldon page.

Note that my proposed combo has an imperceptible 0.01 mm (one hundredth
of a millimetre) error per cog. Adjusted properly, this means no more
than 0.04 mm of centreing error in the worst cogs, if you centre the
drivetrain perfectly on the middle cog.

You may also enjoy checking the various Shift Mate options. Shift Mate
model 3 or 4 should work with your shifter, derailer, and a Shimano 9
cassette for $35.

This is probably cheaper than the cost of a Campy derailer, especially
if you are in a hurry.

------------
I have to buy a new rd anyway, because the 600 rd is a short cage, and I'm
switching it to a triple, which requires a long cage (I think). But it
seems to me, that it would be preferable to use a shimano rd, because I use
only shimano cassettes, and they would move the right distance. But then I
would need the shift mate for the right indexing. Does this make sense?

Callistus Valerius said:

Quoted message said:

I run a Shimagnolo drive train myself.

In your situation, I would acquire a Campy 9s rear derailer, preferably
the early version of said. That will let you run Campy shifters pushing
chain across Shimano cassettes, which I see as the best of all worlds
(because Campy shifters are nice, and Shimano 9s cassettes and wheels
are both plentiful).

Here's the canonical mix and match page for drivetrains:

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

Inexplicably, not a Sheldon page.

Note that my proposed combo has an imperceptible 0.01 mm (one hundredth
of a millimetre) error per cog. Adjusted properly, this means no more
than 0.04 mm of centreing error in the worst cogs, if you centre the
drivetrain perfectly on the middle cog.

You may also enjoy checking the various Shift Mate options. Shift Mate
model 3 or 4 should work with your shifter, derailer, and a Shimano 9
cassette for $35.

This is probably cheaper than the cost of a Campy derailer, especially
if you are in a hurry.

------------
I have to buy a new rd anyway, because the 600 rd is a short cage, and I'm
switching it to a triple, which requires a long cage (I think). But it
seems to me, that it would be preferable to use a shimano rd, because I use
only shimano cassettes, and they would move the right distance. But then I
would need the shift mate for the right indexing. Does this make sense?

Yes, you need the long cage shimano, and at least a med cage if you
get a Campy, depending on the crank and cassette gear range you use.

If you're using Shimano cassette, shiftmate is the best solution to
get your Campy shifters to index properly anyway, so it doesn't matter
whether you get a Campy or a Shimano der. It's just a different
shiftmate model. But the SHimano der isn't going to shift shimano
cassette any differently than a Campy der. It's the shifter/derailer
combination that decides how far the derailer moves, not the derailer
alone. (Shimano and Campy derailers move different distances relative
to cable pull). But that's all handled by getting the right shiftmate
model to work with the shifter-derailer-cassette you're using. To be
sure to get it right call Jtek and talk to the "guy", whose name is
Jay, hence the company name "Jtek". He's VERY helpful and prompt

I run all-Campy 10s, but to make use of an extra dura-ace on the
latest bike, I got a shiftmate to work with 10s campy shifter -- Dura
Ace rear der -- 10s Campy cassette. He had to make that one up
specially -- that being the only combination not covered by his stock
models -- and it works perfectly. I actually like the shifting of the
Dura-Ace more than all the Campys rear ders I've been using for a few
years. But I'd never give up the Campy shifters.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

------------
I have to buy a new rd anyway, because the 600 rd is a short cage, and

I'm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

switching it to a triple, which requires a long cage (I think). But it
seems to me, that it would be preferable to use a shimano rd, because I

use

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

only shimano cassettes, and they would move the right distance. But

then I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

would need the shift mate for the right indexing. Does this make sense?

Yes, you need the long cage shimano, and at least a med cage if you
get a Campy, depending on the crank and cassette gear range you use.

If you're using Shimano cassette, shiftmate is the best solution to
get your Campy shifters to index properly anyway, so it doesn't matter
whether you get a Campy or a Shimano der. It's just a different
shiftmate model. But the SHimano der isn't going to shift shimano
cassette any differently than a Campy der. It's the shifter/derailer
combination that decides how far the derailer moves, not the derailer
alone. (Shimano and Campy derailers move different distances relative
to cable pull). But that's all handled by getting the right shiftmate
model to work with the shifter-derailer-cassette you're using. To be
sure to get it right call Jtek and talk to the "guy", whose name is
Jay, hence the company name "Jtek". He's VERY helpful and prompt

I run all-Campy 10s, but to make use of an extra dura-ace on the
latest bike, I got a shiftmate to work with 10s campy shifter -- Dura
Ace rear der -- 10s Campy cassette. He had to make that one up
specially -- that being the only combination not covered by his stock
models -- and it works perfectly. I actually like the shifting of the
Dura-Ace more than all the Campys rear ders I've been using for a few
years. But I'd never give up the Campy shifters.

---------
thanks

In article <[email hidden]>,

Callistus Valerius said:

Quoted message said:

I run a Shimagnolo drive train myself.

In your situation, I would acquire a Campy 9s rear derailer, preferably
the early version of said. That will let you run Campy shifters pushing
chain across Shimano cassettes, which I see as the best of all worlds
(because Campy shifters are nice, and Shimano 9s cassettes and wheels
are both plentiful).

Here's the canonical mix and match page for drivetrains:

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

Inexplicably, not a Sheldon page.

Note that my proposed combo has an imperceptible 0.01 mm (one hundredth
of a millimetre) error per cog. Adjusted properly, this means no more
than 0.04 mm of centreing error in the worst cogs, if you centre the
drivetrain perfectly on the middle cog.

You may also enjoy checking the various Shift Mate options. Shift Mate
model 3 or 4 should work with your shifter, derailer, and a Shimano 9
cassette for $35.

This is probably cheaper than the cost of a Campy derailer, especially
if you are in a hurry.

------------
I have to buy a new rd anyway, because the 600 rd is a short cage, and I'm
switching it to a triple, which requires a long cage (I think). But it
seems to me, that it would be preferable to use a shimano rd, because I use
only shimano cassettes, and they would move the right distance. But then I
would need the shift mate for the right indexing. Does this make sense?

No.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

In article <[email hidden]>,

Sir Ridesalot said:

On May 4, 10:16 pm, "Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Remember in Apollo 13, they had to build a CO2 canister with only what
was on board. So I've been rebuilding a road bike, and this is what I've
done, and where should I go? I put an ultegra bb in, and attached an
ultegre triple crank to it. And I put on an ultegra triple fd on it. These
were parts I had around the house. Also I have a pair of mirage 9 sp ergo
shifters, an old shimano 600 rd. Now I'd like to have a 9sp bike. Will the
Mirage shifter work on the shimano triple crank? Do I have to buy some
campy rd to work the rd in 9sp? Or can I use the old 600 rd and keep it an
8sp? Thanks, if anyone has any ideas.

Hi there.

If the Mirage Ergos are pre-2007 they will work with the Ultegra
triple and front derailleur.

To keep it 9 spd you need either a Campy rear derailleur or a Shift-
Mate for your Shimano rear derailleur. 9 spd also requires a 9 spd
spaced cassette and a 9 spd chain.

Yes, but, if you check that page I linked to...

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

....you will see that a Campy "old 9" standard rear derailer, with the
poster's current "new 9" shifters and a Shimano 9s cassette, will shift
perfectly. The theoretical error is less than half a millimeter across
the cassette. This error would be hard to see, much less feel.

In practice, it works fine: I use exactly this setup on my race bike
(53-39 rings, 12-25 Shimano cassette, short-cage Campy "old 9"
derailer). Sheldon and others have said here that in general, 9-speed
drivetrains tend to be even more intercompatible than the numbers
suggest. Even a "new 9" derailer may be able to shift properly across
the Shimano cassette, but I have not tried that.

Quoted message said:

My understanding is that the Ergos will shift a Shimano rear
derailleur with an 8 spd cluster without modification other than
clamping the cable via the Hub-Dub method.

You say you have a Shimano 600 rear derailleur. That could be one of
many different designs al the way back to the Shimano 600 EX friction
unit. If it is a newer 60 you should not have a problem.

If you have 8 spd cassette and chain on hand it will cost much less to
stay with 8 spd.

If your cassette and chain are 9 spd you might consider getting a
Mirage rear derailleur just to keep things simple.

A Mirage rear der is fine, but you'll need Campy wheels, or at least a
special set of conversion spacers. Or yes, you could use the Jtek. But
if you're derailer shopping anyways, grab a NOS "old 9" spec Campy rear
der.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos