Anzac Day 2006

stevebaby said:

"You,the mothers,who sent their sons from far away countries,wipe away your tears;your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace.After having lost their lives on our land they have become our sons as well."

- Kemal Ataturk's letter to Australian
mothers,after Gallipoli.

Least we forget

Fixey said:

Least we forget

Kiwi mums too...and British,French,Indian...and Turkish.
The day gets a bit sadder each year as the number of old soldiers decreases.

In Flanders fields the poppies blow Between the crosses, row on row, That mark our place; and in the sky The larks, still bravely singing, fly, Scarce heard amid the guns below. We are the Dead. Short days ago We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow, Loved, and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields. Take up our quarrel with the foe: To you from failing hands we throw The torch; be yours to hold it high. If ye break faith with us who die We shall not sleep, though poppies grow In Flanders fields. -John McCrae on May 3, 1915

A very honourable sacrifice in what was a very dishonourable war (WWI).

Gallipoli still resonates over 90 years later.

Not forgetting those who also fought and died in WWII.

stevebaby said:

"You,the mothers,who sent their sons from far away countries,wipe away your tears;your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace.After having lost their lives on our land they have become our sons as well."

- Kemal Ataturk's letter to Australian
mothers,after Gallipoli.

Very good insight/realization by Ataturk. Sadly, more recent leaders do not express thier thoughts as elegantly/concisely & compassionately as was done in days gone by. E.g.-Washington (Gen.), Lincoln, Churchill, ect...

davidmc said:

Very good insight/realization by Ataturk. Sadly, more recent leaders do not express thier thoughts as elegantly/concisely & compassionately as was done in days gone by. E.g.-Washington (Gen.), Lincoln, Churchill, ect...

It was a pretty generous sentiment in the circumstances.Ataturk was an officer at Gallipoli,his country had been invaded and the Turks paid a much higher price in terms of lives lost than the Allies did.His letter did much to heal the wounds and provided some consolation for the bereaved.
I can't imagine any of the current crop of world leaders repeating the sentiment.

Ataturk was a far-sighted Statesman (as opposed to politician).
He did much to modernise Turkey and to create a secular based goverment.

Gallipoli was a terrible campaign : indeed the entire Dardenelles threatre was terrible.
Massive loss of life on both sides for what was a dishonourable war.

I remember watching the Aussie cricket team coming to England a few years back.
Steve Waugh and the team stopped off in Turkey to visit Gallipoli and the Dardenelles : to help invoke the ANZAC spirit.
Even a guy like Waugh, who's ultra competitive, said that he and his squad were very very moved by that visit.

Quoted post said:

Tributes have been offered to him through the decades by such world statesmen as Lloyd George, Churchill, Roosevelt, Nehru, de Gaulle, Adenauer, Bourguiba, Nasser, Kennedy, and countless others. A White House statement, issued on the occasion of "The Atatürk Centennial" in 1981, pays homage to him as "a great leader in times of war and peace". It is fitting that there should be high praise for Atatürk, an extraordinary leader of modern times, who said in 1933: "I look to the world with an open heart full of pure feelings and friendship".

http://www.ataturk.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=26

Thanks for getting me interested in this part of history. I usually tend to gravitate towards reading "ancient" (Greek, Egyptian, Roman, ect...) or my own country's "domestic" history. You could say I am "descriminatory" when it comes to modern history. For what its worth, I don't read non-fiction either.

davidmc said:

http://www.ataturk.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=26

Thanks for getting me interested in this part of history. I usually tend to gravitate towards reading "ancient" (Greek, Egyptian, Roman, ect...) or my own country's "domestic" history. You could say I am "descriminatory" when it comes to modern history. For what its worth, I don't read non-fiction either.

I only read non-fiction.

David - WWI is well worth reading up on.
The entire 20th century was configured upon what happened between 1914-1918.
What happened in those years resonates through the 1920's/30's and created WWII, the 1929 crash etc.

The BBC have produced fascinating documentaries about the period 1900-1914.
Often referred to as the Golden Era, this time saw relative worldwide peace and prosperity.
It was known as the Edwardian Era.

That Golden Generation as they were called - were brutally wiped away in the killing fields of Europe and most of the consensus and hope that filled the period 1900-1914 vanished for ever.
A very interesting time period.

limerickman said:

Ataturk was a far-sighted Statesman (as opposed to politician).
He did much to modernise Turkey and to create a secular based goverment.

Gallipoli was a terrible campaign : indeed the entire Dardenelles threatre was terrible.
Massive loss of life on both sides for what was a dishonourable war.

I remember watching the Aussie cricket team coming to England a few years back.
Steve Waugh and the team stopped off in Turkey to visit Gallipoli and the Dardenelles : to help invoke the ANZAC spirit.
Even a guy like Waugh, who's ultra competitive, said that he and his squad were very very moved by that visit.

The creation of a secular state in Turkey was a pretty radical notion for the time and place and it must have taken a great deal of courage.
Ataturk's experience as a front-line officer at Gallipoli (where he told the troops under his command "I am not ordering you to fight..I am ordering you to die!",obviously had a very profound effect on him,as it did on John Kerrey and many other veterans of war.What a pity [censored] wasn't affected the same way.
Or dubya,cheney and the rest who were able to avoid vietnam,not through personal conviction but through the privileged circumstances of their birth.

limerickman said:

I only read non-fiction.

David - WWI is well worth reading up on.
The entire 20th century was configured upon what happened between 1914-1918.
What happened in those years resonates through the 1920's/30's and created WWII, the 1929 crash etc.

The BBC have produced fascinating documentaries about the period 1900-1914.
Often referred to as the Golden Era, this time saw relative worldwide peace and prosperity.
It was known as the Edwardian Era.

That Golden Generation as they were called - were brutally wiped away in the killing fields of Europe and most of the consensus and hope that filled the period 1900-1914 vanished for ever.
A very interesting time period.

We're still feeling the effects of WWl...Iraq and bosnia for example.
As you say,a very interesting period in modern history which is often passed over.
It's worth noting that the catalyst for WWl was ..."The war on terror" in the balkans.

stevebaby said:

The creation of a secular state in Turkey was a pretty radical notion for the time and place and it must have taken a great deal of courage.
Ataturk's experience as a front-line officer at Gallipoli (where he told the troops under his command "I am not ordering you to fight..I am ordering you to die!",obviously had a very profound effect on him,as it did on John Kerrey and many other veterans of war.What a pity [censored] wasn't affected the same way.
Or dubya,cheney and the rest who were able to avoid vietnam,not through personal conviction but through the privileged circumstances of their birth.

It was a very radical notion for the time as you say - especially as Turkey was (and is) a deeply conservative Islamic nation.

And the other point that you hit upon is correct.
Any politician who served in warfare - ia loathe to subject his fellow citizens
to the same trial.
[censored] did fight in 1914-1918 (and won the Iron Cross) - as you say that didn't prevent him launching an unprovoked attack.

It cannot be coincidence that Blair/Bush/Cheney/Dumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Perle
never fought in a warfare situation and their unprovoked attack in 2003.

All of the original ANZACs are now gone but their last words were reported widely here.Not one of them was in favour of war as a solution for anything.They all felt an obligation to speak out against it on behalf of the friends who were unable to.

"War never solves anything.It just causes a lot of misery and death and a lot of anxiety."
Charlie Mance,WWl veteran aged 100,April 2000.

stevebaby said:

Kiwi mums too...and British,French,Indian...and Turkish.
The day gets a bit sadder each year as the number of old soldiers decreases.

They had some PNGers in the Sydney march.

My apologies to the "Fuzzy-Wuzzy Angels".

stevebaby said:

The creation of a secular state in Turkey was a pretty radical notion for the time and place and it must have taken a great deal of courage...

...and it worked, with very little assistance from the great Western Powers, then and now.

stevebaby said:

Kiwi mums too...and British,French,Indian...and Turkish.
The day gets a bit sadder each year as the number of old soldiers decreases.

No matter where I am at the time, my wife always takes our 2 daughters to the Dawn Service. Our local gathering at the Fremantle War Memorial is small, but very emotional.
I remember the ANZAC Day Parades of the 1970's as being all military and little rememberance. A lot of the veterans stopped going as it seemed to be a celebration of War. There was a distinct change (at least in my neck of the woods) in the 1980's when a lot of the old boys were falling off the perch and ANZAC Day returned to what it is was meant to be - a chance for everyone to recognise and appreciate the sacrifices made by the generations before us, without debating the rights and wrongs involved.
Last year I attended the Dawn Service in Kuala Lumpur. It was a great feeling standing with the others in the dark at Cheras War Cemetary, with old and young holding candles as we allowed ourselves time to think and appreciate.