Anyone Using the new CamelBak Catalyst when running?

It only holds 28oz. My current side strap bottle holds 24oz
and I have a place to hold gels. Do they have a waist
camelbak that holds more liquids?

--
R.Robinson

Rob said:

Hello, I was thinking about getting the new Camelbak
Catalyst for hydrating during my runs. Has anyone else
been using it?

No since I need more fluid and gear capacity - but that's
*my* needs.

Quoted message said:

What do you think about it?

Just a couple thoughts in general and from my recent cb-
hunting experiences.

The two most important questions: Will it serve your
purpose? (you didn't indicate duration, temps, etc) Does it
fit you well and ride well when you run - even when full?

More specifically: Is 28 oz enough? Is the waist belt wide
enough to keep it stable? (try it on in store and run with
it weighted if you can) Are the pouches that just carry
gels, keys, etc. large enough for your needs? (in
description on this page) camelbak.comcb prOpen ↗
od.cfm?catid=6&product_id=289

It seems pricey for that amount of fluid carrying capacity
and miniscule other carrying capacity. But a *good* waist
belt with water bottle (20-24 oz) and enough space to carry
a shell might cost almost that much retail. It depends on
your needs. The cb does have the advantage that you don't
have to pull out a bottle and drink, but with the waist belt
(rather than backpack), you still have to reach for the tube
somewhere (assuming it's down by the waist). But you don't
have to worry about dropping it over a hillside.

This small size pack might be easier to keep under a shell
in the winter to keep from freezing in subzero F, and you
could run the tube up through your jacket.

FWIW, this is something *I* would probably *not* use in a
race if it needed refilling (short races ok, but *I* still
wouldn't use a waist belt since I haven't found one that
works for me. It might work for you though). The opening
looks like it's the old small kind, you need to take pack
off, have somebody fill it, and put it back on. *I*
wouldn't chance somebody filling it while it was on me 😉
(and I wouldn't with the larger ones either, but at least
they carry more so I don't have to take it off as much)
With a waterbottle (either in waist belt or handheld), you
just take the bottle out, fill a bottle that's probably
almost as wide an opening as the cb, and continue in pretty
quick time.

*Your* intended purpose may be very different, and it might
work well for you. It may be enough smaller than other waist
packs that it fits in small of your back and rides well and
you don't need to carry anything else. Only you know.

The wicking mesh and back panel sound like it might be good.
Most of the newer backpack models had nice mesh or some
method of breathing against the back. It *looks* like it
would work.

A general caution on the newer cb's, at least the backpack
style and didn't look at waist packs: they've narrowed the
waist belts substantially. My current model (CloudWalker)
has 1.5 in waist strap; the belt on the new version is only
3/4 in wide (belt pouches would flop around). They've done
that on many models (except the larger, heavier ones), and
the primary reason I came home empty handed the other day
when I was on a mission to get a new improved cb (read: REI
dividend burning a hole in pocket).

However, this model may be ok for *you* and your
intended purpose.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

I use my regular back pack type camelbak for long runs, it
works great.

R.Robinson said:

It only holds 28oz. My current side strap bottle holds
24oz and I have a place to hold gels. Do they have a waist
camelbak that holds more liquids?

Here's the whole shootin' match. There's several models of
45 oz ones that are waist packs.

camelbak.comproducts.cfmOpen ↗

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

"R.Robinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

It only holds 28oz. My current side strap bottle holds
24oz and I have a place to hold gels. Do they have a waist
camelbak that holds more liquids?

Yes the Flash Flow holds 45 oz my now discontinued
Bandito holds 64.

runnners4bush2004.rantweb.comrunnners4bush2004.rantweb.comOpen ↗

<apolitics/US/bush_kerry_likeability_poll_040502.html?CMP=OTC-
RSSFeeds0312"> ABC News Poll </a>

Playing Favorites Voters Find Bush More Compassionate,
Compatible, Likeable than Kerry

Analysis By Dalia Sussman

May 2— George W. Bush has an edge on John Kerry on the
personal attributes of compassion, values and likeability,
another reason Bush has improved his overall position
against Kerry since the Democratic primaries

"R.Robinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

It only holds 28oz. My current side strap bottle holds
24oz and I have a place to hold gels. Do they have a waist
camelbak that holds more liquids?

Yeah, I know it might seem small...But some water is better
then NO water. I have several different water bottle
carriers, but none of them are very convenient. Sometimes I
just tough it out rather than carry water. I was hoping this
would get me to carry some water when I run.

Thanks for all the input. I am still wondering if it travels
well when you are running? Or if someone is using a similar
camelbak product that works real well for them I am open to
suggestions.

-Rob

Dot <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Rob said:

Hello, I was thinking about getting the new Camelbak
Catalyst for hydrating during my runs. Has anyone else
been using it?

No since I need more fluid and gear capacity - but that's
*my* needs.

Agreed. I don't see the point of carrying anything less than
about 40 oz. I have a CamelBak FlashFlo and I've been very
satisfied with it. For runs under 12 miles I don't carry
water with me. I'm good to go as long as I've been hydrating
well the day before and up to 2 hours before the start of
the long run, then another 12-20 oz just before I head out
the door. That might change as I ramp up my mileage during
the heat of the Georgia summer. For now, I'm using the
Flashflo for runs longer than 12 miles. I take 10 sips every
2.5 miles. That way I've pretty much finished all 45 oz by
the 10-mile mark. If I'm running 15 miles or more, I'll
stash a 12 oz bottle at the 12-mile mark.

Quoted message said:

The two most important questions: Will it serve your
purpose? (you didn't indicate duration, temps, etc)
Does it fit you well and ride well when you run - even
when full?

When full to capacity the FlashFlo can be a bit cumbersome.
It will certainly train you to run with minimal up and down
motion and to minimize over-striding. After drinking the
first 12 oz, it tends to flatten out over my back and ride
much better. After that, I hardly notice it's there.

Quoted message said:

Is the waist belt wide enough to keep it stable? (try it
on in store and run with it weighted if you can)

In addition to the waist belt, there are 2 cinches that help
to tighten up the the whole hydration system without
constricting around your waste. If you get it just right,
you can minimize the bouncing effect to a certain degree.

Quoted message said:

Are the pouches that just carry gels, keys, etc. large
enough for your needs? (in description on this page) http-
://www.camelbak.com/rec/cb_prod.cfm?catid=6&product_id=289

It seems pricey for that amount of fluid carrying capacity
and miniscule other carrying capacity. But a *good* waist
belt with water bottle (20-24 oz) and enough space to
carry a shell might cost almost that much retail.

There is plenty of cargo room in the Flashflo for only $2
more. Inside the main zipper pouch is an elestic mesh pocket
where I keep my cell phone and mp3 player. The mesh pocket
keeps the items from banging into eachother. There is enough
room in there to also store several gels and/or energy bars,
and a lightweight jacket if the conditions look like they'll
be changing while on the run. Also, there are 2 external
mesh pockets to store even more cargo. Sometimes I'll put my
gloves in there.

Quoted message said:

It depends on your needs. The cb does have the advantage
that you don't have to pull out a bottle and drink, but
with the waist belt (rather than backpack), you still
have to reach for the tube somewhere (assuming it's down
by the waist).

The tube runs out the top of the pack and around your waist
with 2 clips. This is very convenient. It never gets in the
way. It looks like the Catalyst is the same way.

Quoted message said:

This small size pack might be easier to keep under a shell
in the winter to keep from freezing in subzero F, and you
could run the tube up through your jacket.

Since I don't train in Alaska - not an issue. ;-)

Phil M.

--
"Pain is temporary: the success it brings can be
everlasting." -fortune cookie

<Yes the Flash Flow holds 45 oz my now discontinued
Bandito holds 64>

Yeah I saw the flashpro after I posted, on the camelbak
website. It just seems sooo big in the picture on the guys
back. The catalyst seems more appropriate size wise but not
enough water for long runs. Just a trade off I guess. Thanks
--
R.Robinson

Phil M. said:

Dot <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in news:t_ulc.14950$Ut1.448873@bgtnsc05-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

Quoted message said:

Rob said:

Hello, I was thinking about getting the new Camelbak
Catalyst for hydrating during my runs. Has anyone else
been using it?

No since I need more fluid and gear capacity - but that's
*my* needs.

Agreed. I don't see the point of carrying anything less
than about 40 oz.

Right. I figure about 20 oz/hr, usually, and I can do 1-hr
only run with nothing (not sure if temps over 70F). So if
I'm going out over an hr, I need the 20oz to cover the 1st
hour and then however long beyond that.

Quoted message said:

When full to capacity the FlashFlo can be a bit
cumbersome.

I saw somebody bouncing along the bike path the other day as
I was driving by. It looked like a FlashFlo or similar size.
I think it was at least partly the runner's bounce, but it
looked more horrible than my bottle belts feel. I thought
the bladder might nestle in the small of the back better
than it did.

Quoted message said:

It will certainly train you to run with minimal up and
down motion and to minimize over-striding.

This is one of the things I find about wearing something -
whether it's a bottle that goes slosh or a headlamp that
bounces - it really helps key on bad form. Of course with a
backpack bladder with air sucked out, I don't get the gentle
slosh of the water bottle (that turns to clunk when it
freezes). I've found sometimes the waist packs are ok with
fluid but when you start to add much gear, then they get
really obnoxious.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This small size pack might be easier to keep under a shell
in the winter to keep from freezing in subzero F, and you
could run the tube up through your jacket.

Since I don't train in Alaska - not an issue. ;-)

Awww, you could keep it under one of those insulated shells
that keeps you cool when hot and warm when cool 😉

I always like to put a curve in there for people that post
and assume everybody here is from temperate North America
😉 I suppose some of my early questions were this general
- until I realized that some people ran where it never
snowed 😉 duh.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Rob said:

"R.Robinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<GVs-
[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

It only holds 28oz. My current side strap bottle holds
24oz and I have a place to hold gels. Do they have a waist
camelbak that holds more liquids?

Yeah, I know it might seem small...But some water is
better then NO water. I have several different water
bottle carriers, but none of them are very convenient.

as in hard to get bottle out or they bounce or ...? Vertical
or slanted bottles?

Quoted message said:

Sometimes I just tough it out rather than carry water.
I was hoping this would get me to carry some water
when I run.

Thanks for all the input. I am still wondering if it
travels well when you are running? Or if someone is using
a similar camelbak product that works real well for them I
am open to suggestions.

How much fluid do you need? Do you need to carry anything
else. Have you tried a handheld with strap so you don't have
to actually hold it? Is there a reason you're avoiding
backpack style or other brands? Ultimate Directions and some
other companies have bottle and bladder packs also. Have you
considered cleaning time for bladder vs bottle?

As I mentioned, I like my old-style cloudwalker for my
needs, but I think I'm probably carrying more than you, and
I prefer a backpack style since I haven't found a waist belt
that works for *me*.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Hey Dot,

Yes..I have tried carry a bottle with the strap on the hand.
I usually like really cold water, and the coldest of the
bottle against my hands seems to bother me.

I have a bottle [censored] pak, and the bouncing and
inconvenience of trying reach around while running does not
appeal to me either.

I was just wondering if anyone has use this one. I have look
at the flashflo they look like the same thing but larger.

Thanks to everyone for all the input.

-Rob

Dot <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message news:<5RHlc.17132$Ut1.518836@bgtnsc05-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...

Quoted message said:

Rob said:

"R.Robinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<G-
[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

It only holds 28oz. My current side strap bottle holds
24oz and I have a place to hold gels. Do they have a
waist camelbak that holds more liquids?

Yeah, I know it might seem small...But some water is
better then NO water. I have several different water
bottle carriers, but none of them are very convenient.

as in hard to get bottle out or they bounce or ...?
Vertical or slanted bottles?

Quoted message said:

Sometimes I just tough it out rather than carry water.
I was hoping this would get me to carry some water
when I run.

Thanks for all the input. I am still wondering if it
travels well when you are running? Or if someone is
using a similar camelbak product that works real well
for them I am open to suggestions.

How much fluid do you need? Do you need to carry anything
else. Have you tried a handheld with strap so you don't
have to actually hold it? Is there a reason you're
avoiding backpack style or other brands? Ultimate
Directions and some other companies have bottle and
bladder packs also. Have you considered cleaning time for
bladder vs bottle?

As I mentioned, I like my old-style cloudwalker for my
needs, but I think I'm probably carrying more than you,
and I prefer a backpack style since I haven't found a
waist belt that works for *me*.

Dot

Rob said:

Hey Dot,

Yes..I have tried carry a bottle with the strap on the
hand. I usually like really cold water, and the coldest of
the bottle against my hands seems to bother me.

Have you tried an insulated bottle (I think Polar, not the
hrm maker, makes them) or insulated cover (probably
neoprene). You can make your own cover or get them ready
made at places like REI.

Quoted message said:

I have a bottle [censored] pak, and the bouncing and
inconvenience of trying reach around while running does
not appeal to me either.

yep, been there, done that. this one reason why I went
backpack-style.

Quoted message said:

I was just wondering if anyone has use this one. I
have look at the flashflo they look like the same
thing but larger.

Based on Phil M.'s comments, sounds like it might work since
it is a little smaller. Although a larger size may provide
more volume for the money, it's possible it won't work as
well - depending upon how each nestles in your back.

If you don't get any other comments here, you might check
the RW trail/ultra forum since that's a frequent topic. Many
use bacpack-style for the capacity, but some will use
handhelds or smaller ones.

Good luck.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

"Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rob said:

Hey Dot,

Yes..I have tried carry a bottle with the strap on the
hand. I

usually

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

like really cold water, and the coldest of the bottle
against my

hands

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

seems to bother me.

Have you tried an insulated bottle (I think Polar,
not the hrm

maker,

Quoted message said:

makes them) or insulated cover (probably neoprene). You
can make

your

Quoted message said:

own cover or get them ready made at places like REI.

You guys are way stable for me. As much as I like to stay
upright, my ability to lift my leg over every rick and root
does not alwaus work for me and I fall. Having something in
my hand mat provide a cushion but th elid usually pops open.
I prefer my hands free.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have a bottle [censored] pak, and the bouncing and
inconvenience of trying reach around while running does
not appeal to me either.

yep, been there, done that. this one reason why I went

backpack-style.

This must have something to do with running form or the
brand of waist pack. The term [censored] pack makes the Brits
quivver. I have an old Ultimate Direction one anf two hole
belt and I hardly know the belt is on my body.

As for reach around I simply pull my belt such that the
bottle is on my hip, drink and slide it back. The newer
models have the bottle slanted which should make grabbing
and returning the bottle easier. Bottle(s) are a hell of a
lot easier to fill in race then a back pack.

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]
(remove the NOBS)

Doug Freese said:

"Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message news:Z61mc.37888$Xj6.643051@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Quoted message said:

Rob said:

Hey Dot,

Yes..I have tried carry a bottle with the strap on the
hand. I

usually

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

like really cold water, and the coldest of the bottle
against my

hands

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

seems to bother me.

Have you tried an insulated bottle (I think Polar,
not the hrm

maker,

Quoted message said:

makes them) or insulated cover (probably neoprene). You
can make

your

Quoted message said:

own cover or get them ready made at places like REI.

You guys are way stable for me.

Duh, remember *I'm* the one using the cb since I don't
have the coordination for a bottle pack 😉 I was just
offering suggestions of various thought processes I've
gone through over the last couple years trying to figure
out what works for me.

Quoted message said:

As much as I like to stay upright,

you don't expect us to believe that one, do you? 😉

Quoted message said:

my ability to lift my leg over every rick and root does
not alwaus work for me and I fall. Having something in my
hand mat provide a cushion but th elid usually pops open.

Even the screw-on UD bottles? Nah, I won't ask how you know
😉 I'm assuming you run more coordinatedly than you type 😉

Quoted message said:

I prefer my hands free.

And why I use cb. I can drop the tube and it never falls
down the hill.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have a bottle [censored] pak, and the bouncing and
inconvenience of trying reach around while running does
not appeal to me either.

yep, been there, done that. this one reason why I went

backpack-style.

This must have something to do with running form or the
brand of waist pack.

Nah, the last time we discussed this, we decided it was body
shape interacting with style of waist pack. With some people
it might be form also. I know I'm somewhat bouncy until
warmed up.

Quoted message said:

As for reach around I simply pull my belt such that the
bottle is on my hip, drink and slide it back. The newer
models have the bottle slanted which should make grabbing
and returning the bottle easier. Bottle(s) are a hell of a
lot easier to fill in race then a back pack.

But ya gotta fill them more often - and if there ain't a gas
station enroute, you're SOL 😉 With a large bladder pack,
you don't have to stop as often and you pass by all those
cheeseburgers that slow you down. I'll take the Omega mouth
opening of my cb over the opening of a bottle (even the UD)
as far as size is concerned.

And now that I know the truth about your drinking on winter
runs, I know why the da*n bottle freezing isn't an issue
for you - you don't use one 😉 You have absolutely no idea
how long that puzzled me - how you could use a bottle near
0F and not have it freeze within about 1.5 hr. That's also
why it doesn't snag when you rotate the belt over winter
layers. There wasn't a bottle in sight at start of Su 100
but lots of cb's.

I've done my homework locally, and I generally don't see
anyone using bottles on trails in winter. The one REI
salesman that confessed to it, says he unscrews the cap to
suck the ice out. Besides in winter, one may be running with
skiis or snowshoes on feet and poles in hands (or not), so
keeping hands free is of major importance.

Nope, you ain't gonna change this stubborn lady's mind
regarding the way I drink under conditions I've
experienced so far 😉

That said, I'm approaching my last field season with
university, and it's a little lighter than normal. That
means, I might get to experience running on dirt more than
in the past - and in heat and rain and having to ingest
electrolyte tabs (they're bigger than I thought they would
be). I might want to carry fluid without needing space for
winter emergency gear. (I've been gradually getting some
better gear so summer gear is also lighter.) I might want to
carry fluid on shorter runs than in winter. etc.

And this is why I went looking for alternatives in REI the
other day. I did come away empty handed for what I was
looking for (lighter cb for racing, better breathability on
back, and a couple other issues). However, I did break down
and get a hand held for short runs. I don't think I'll like
the imbalance of only 1 bottle and having a hand occupied,
but I thought I'd try it, but don't want to try two even
though it would be a way of doing my hand weight drills
while running. Would not even consider using it running down
the mountain - balance is too precarious. I have also seen
the UD strider on STP that I thought might be worth the $15
investment. It has a small pouch (large enough for my
camera, folded maps, or maybe some food or headlamp) on the
side opposite the single bottle so it may ride better.
Haven't ordered it yet, but will as soon as I get an order
put together (unless they run out). Also looking for some
fitness-type shorts with pockets.

Some of the horizontal bottle holders also look like they
might work better than the vertical or diagonal holders.
With me, I've decided that the problem with bottle holders
is they are too tall, so the diagonal or horizontal might
work better. But I'm not willing to pay the list price for
another bottle holder to add to my collection of things that
don't work for me.

Oh, yeah, our 2 wks of spring are history as of a couple
days ago. The thermometer read +72F yesterday (15F above
normal high, about 5F above previous record), and I had been
jogging around snow drifts on Sun just north of town.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Quoted message said:

You have absolutely no idea how long that puzzled me - how
you could
use a bottle near 0F and not have it freeze within about
1.5 hr.

I should have clarified for others. There is a trick - be
sure cap is secured and turn bottle upside down (keeps ice
out of nozzle), but I'm not sure how long this lasts.
Insulated holders on the UD 4S versions increase time to
freeze up.

"Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Even the screw-on UD bottles? Nah, I won't ask how
you know 😉

When I fall I use my hands to break my fall. Bottles will
break when hit by full body force - at least my hulk. On
trails I don't try to roll.

Quoted message said:

Nah, the last time we discussed this, we decided it was
body shape interacting with style of waist pack. With some
people it might be

form

Quoted message said:

also. I know I'm somewhat bouncy until warmed up.

I glad you didn't say perky. Send pictures I need top see
this close up. 😉

Quoted message said:

With a large bladder pack, you don't have to stop as often

But you gotta haul that stuff and I'm old and fragile.

Quoted message said:

and you pass by all those cheeseburgers that slow
you down.

I can't live on a liquid diet unless it has malts and hops.
My last race had grilled cheese and ice cream sandwichs to
go with the PB&J.

Quoted message said:

And now that I know the truth about your drinking on
winter runs,

I know

Quoted message said:

why the da*n bottle freezing isn't an issue for you -
you don't

use one

Quoted message said:

😉 You have absolutely no idea how long that puzzled me
- how you

could

Quoted message said:

use a bottle near 0F and not have it freeze within
about 1.5 hr.

I used to carry a bottle and keep it under my jacket and it
never froze. It's likely that I'm a hot commodity. 🙂 I used
to carry a bottle but I noticed I never or hardly ever drank
from it. Others that I run with do carry a jugs and don't
have problems with it freezing. If it's below 32 under my
jacket I'm in deep doo doo.

Quoted message said:

I've done my homework locally, and I generally don't
see anyone

using

Quoted message said:

bottles on trails in winter.

This is likely a byproduct of your cold winters. I don't
see anyone here using CBs in the winter. A for races in
general, at least the ones that I do, I see about 5-10% at
best using a CB. It's either a bottle in hand on in a belt.
For those races that have hours between aid and tons of
climbs the CB is ideal. I have a CB but I use it for long
MB rides on single track. I don't know the model and it's
hiding in the attic.

Quoted message said:

Nope, you ain't gonna change this stubborn lady's mind
regarding

the way

Quoted message said:

I drink under conditions I've experienced so far 😉

Not trying to change you mind but offer some additional
info. No one ever changes a woman's mind. 😉

Quoted message said:

Oh, yeah, our 2 wks of spring are history as of a couple
days ago.

The

Quoted message said:

thermometer read +72F yesterday (15F above normal high,
about 5F

above

Quoted message said:

previous record), and I had been jogging around snow
drifts on Sun

just

Quoted message said:

north of town.

Spring? Is that a season? We are skipping this season in
the NE. We ran last night and had to put on a parka to hang
out and play.

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]
(remove the NOBS)

"Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You have absolutely no idea how long that puzzled me -
how you

could

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

use a bottle near 0F and not have it freeze within about
1.5 hr.

I should have clarified for others. There is a trick - be
sure cap

is

Quoted message said:

secured and turn bottle upside down (keeps ice out of
nozzle), but

I'm

Quoted message said:

not sure how long this lasts. Insulated holders on
the UD 4S

versions

Quoted message said:

increase time to freeze up.

And to follow up - I wear mine under my jacket and I don't
have the problem. Do you wear a short waisted jacket that
leaves the bottle completely exposed?

--
Doug Freese
[email hidden]
(Remove the NOBS)

Doug Freese said:

"Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message news:1Olmc.24391$Ut1.717219@bgtnsc05-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Nah, the last time we discussed this, we decided it was
body shape interacting with style of waist pack. With some
people it might be

form

Quoted message said:

also. I know I'm somewhat bouncy until warmed up.

I glad you didn't say perky. Send pictures I need top see
this close up. 😉

touche 😉 Yes, my headlamp bounces until I'm warmed up, then
it follows a pretty straight line.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

With a large bladder pack, you don't have to stop as often

But you gotta haul that stuff and I'm old and fragile.

Can you sell a bridge to the kids you pass in a race and say
"Don't worry, I'm not in your age group."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and you pass by all those cheeseburgers that slow
you down.

I can't live on a liquid diet unless it has malts and
hops. My last race had grilled cheese and ice cream
sandwichs to go with the PB&J.

Some survey I saw recently (as in last 12 months, maybe
last fall) showed a correlation between increased food
consumption and people taking longer to finish ultras.
Probably just an issue of time on course, but it's one of
those things where someone could say "see, eating slows
you down" 😉

Quoted message said:

I used to carry a bottle and keep it under my jacket and
it never froze.

I tried that the first year at yours and Bill L.'s
suggestions, and when the wind gets under the shell, *I*
froze. I started one run that way where winds were probably
20-30mph (in town, in open, nearer the source, they were
50+mph), and it just whipped right under my shell. That's
the day I went back to putting it on the outside. I also had
problems rotating it around to get bottle when it was under
shell. That said, this smaller belt under one of these new
layers might work, but it's probably academic. If subzero F
and I'm going long, I want an extra layer with me, although
as I've gotten more familiar with trails, I've got a series
of loops or out/backs I can do from the one trail head with
each taking 30-45 min. At 20F and above, freezing fluid
isn't nearly as much of an issue.

Quoted message said:

It's likely that I'm a hot commodity. 🙂 I used to carry a
bottle but I noticed I never or hardly ever drank from it.

I've noticed I don't drink from a bottle nearly as much as I
do from cb since it's a pain. I'm convinced that's what
happened on my first trail race. It was just too darn hard
to maintain effort, reach around get bottle, suck fluid out,
put it back, keep from tripping on roots, etc. But the real
kicker, was not having enough fluid for the hike/run back to
the car coupled with a few other things. Let's just say
lesson learned.

Quoted message said:

Others that I run with do carry a jugs and don't have
problems with it freezing. If it's below 32 under my jacket
I'm in deep doo doo.

My gore-tex parka and another more breathable windshell both
frost on the inside (and windpants that I may wear with
snowshoes to keep dry from rooster tail 😉 I just got some
new gear on closeout that I'm going to see how they work for
breathability (wind shell) and wind resistance (insulating
or base layer). At about +5F and above, it's not that big a
deal since it's not that cold. And at +20F, I'm down to one
layer over a t-shirt - assuming warm sun and working hills
in trees (not windy). It's the subzero F where I still need
to deal with breathability issues.

<from other post>

Quoted message said:

And to follow up - I wear mine under my jacket and I don't
have the problem. Do you wear a short waisted jacket that
leaves the bottle completely exposed?

no. Bottle would be protected if I put it under shell, but
that leaves me unprotected and it's hard to get to. Those
UD 4S versions do help substantially and waist belts do
work better for me in winter than summer - related to
multiple layers.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've done my homework locally, and I generally don't
see anyone

using

Quoted message said:

bottles on trails in winter.

This is likely a byproduct of your cold winters. I don't
see anyone here using CBs in the winter.

Right. And many people here ski, snowshoe (with/without
poles), and mt bike all winter (that is, hands are
occupied). I could be wrong, but I think here we're more
likely to have people here just going out for several hours
of self-locomoted fun. Just load up cb and go.

Quoted message said:

For those races that have hours between aid and tons of
climbs the CB is ideal.

That would be us 🙂

Quoted message said:

Not trying to change you mind but offer some
additional info.

I appreciate it, as always. At least now I'm at the point
where I have things that work reasonably well, but not
perfectly, and I've got a fair history of did-not-work-for-
me to know what paths what might not be the most productive.
I'm at the "finding a better mousetrap" stage.

Quoted message said:

Spring? Is that a season? We are skipping this season in
the NE. We ran last night and had to put on a parka to
hang out and play.

Lucky you 🙂 Last week I was delayed about 1/2 hr outdoors
between end of my run and getting in car. About 40F but
20+mph wind. I was more than a little cold by the time I got
in car. Still some snowdrifts at city level on Sun. Now
after a few days of 70F it looks like one could hike the
mountain without hitting snow - still lots of snow there,
but trail is on sw, sunny side.

I just looked at our forecasts / ouija board, and it looks
like this heat wave will dissipate in a couple days,
fortunately. Chance of snow in forecast 2 wks out.
Regardless of details, there's probably not going to be
enough heat to acclimatize by end of month anyway.

Thanks for your help.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope