Anyone Use the CycleOps 9400 trainer?

bob_chew said:

Performance bikes has this on sale at $599 less a 20% coupon makes it pretty attractive. Anyone know if it works as advertised? I especially want to be able to do intervals at specific power settings.

thx

Yes, I have one and works very well. I believe the 9400 is called the Electronic model which includes the digital display for measuring heart rate, watts, speed, etc.

The 9401 is the same base model but includes the computer software and interface cable. I do not recommend the 9401 because of consistent problems with the computer software that both CycleOps and FitCentric (the software supplier) have been unable to address. In fact, FitCentric does not even respond to emails.

But, back to your question, the 9400 has been very reliable and works as described. It includes built-in programs for intervals, climbing repeats, power max tests, etc. And since the cadence sensing unit easily attaches to the crank arm, it is simple attach/remove or switch bikes as needed.

gruppo said:

Yes, I have one and works very well. I believe the 9400 is called the Electronic model which includes the digital display for measuring heart rate, watts, speed, etc.

The 9401 is the same base model but includes the computer software and interface cable. I do not recommend the 9401 because of consistent problems with the computer software that both CycleOps and FitCentric (the software supplier) have been unable to address. In fact, FitCentric does not even respond to emails.

But, back to your question, the 9400 has been very reliable and works as described. It includes built-in programs for intervals, climbing repeats, power max tests, etc. And since the cadence sensing unit easily attaches to the crank arm, it is simple attach/remove or switch bikes as needed.

out of curiousity, what problems are you experiencing with the 9401? i've only noticed one issue with the software -- on one of the "town/city" landscapes the software freezes after a minute or so (going from memory) but all the other rides are fine (including the ones i've developed myself).

i've never emailed fitcentric, so can't comment on that aspect!
ric

ric_stern/RST said:

out of curiousity, what problems are you experiencing with the 9401? i've only noticed one issue with the software -- on one of the "town/city" landscapes the software freezes after a minute or so (going from memory) but all the other rides are fine (including the ones i've developed myself).

i've never emailed fitcentric, so can't comment on that aspect!
ric

Three reported problems have never been resolved;

1. Although CycleOps claims (both over the phone and in the manual) that you should be able to download the performance data from the CycleOps display unit to the UltraCoach Lite software, this is impossible because the UltraCoach Lite software does not have that feature available unless you pay for the full version.

2. When the CycleOps is connected to the PC, all of the rides freeze intermittently every minute or two until you stop pedaling the trainer, then they will restart for some arbitrary period of time.

3. When the PC interface cable is connected, the performance data on both the CycleOps display and in the FitCentric software gets very erratic. For example, you can be riding along at 100 watts and all of a sudden it will show 3000 watts. Speed can also be erratic when the PC cable is connected.

BTW, I have verified that the CycleOps unit has the most recent firmware installed.

I have reinstalled the software numerous times and tried two different computers (both of which exceed minimum requirements) but results are always the same.

With the inability to download the trainer data and the unusable performance of the FitCentric riding software, the extra paid for the 9401 waste a pure waste of money.

As stated, FitCentric does has not replied to my emails (first attempt was over a month ago) and CycleOps is blaming the problem on FitCentric. A typical problem of two vendors with the customer caught in the middle.

However, as originally mentioned, when the PC interface cable is not connected to the computer, the CycleOps unit running by itself works without problems.

gruppo said:

Three reported problems have never been resolved;

1. Although CycleOps claims (both over the phone and in the manual) that you should be able to download the performance data from the CycleOps display unit to the UltraCoach Lite software, this is impossible because the UltraCoach Lite software does not have that feature available unless you pay for the full version.

unfortunately, i don't use that software (although i have to admit some graphs and stuff come up at the end of my rides -- but i ignore the trainer data and just download from my Power Tap). Thus, i'm not sure if i'm seeing/using the same software as you

Quoted post said:

2. When the CycleOps is connected to the PC, all of the rides freeze intermittently every minute or two until you stop pedaling the trainer, then they will restart for some arbitrary period of time.

this just happens (to me at least) on one circuit (as mentioned above. but i have to switch my PC off and on to get it to restart).

Quoted post said:

3. When the PC interface cable is connected, the performance data on both the CycleOps display and in the FitCentric software gets very erratic. For example, you can be riding along at 100 watts and all of a sudden it will show 3000 watts. Speed can also be erratic when the PC cable is connected.

i find a very similar (or same) problem occurs -- but only at very low speed (just as you accelerate from stationary). this occurs whether i have the pc cable connected or not!

ric

Ric - does the Cylcelops tell you how much power you are putting out or just dictate how much power you need to exert in order to ride a preset course (so if you exerted more power for example it wouldn't be recorded). I am guessing that since you use your powertap while on your trainer that the latter is true.

bob_chew said:

Ric - does the Cylcelops tell you how much power you are putting out or just dictate how much power you need to exert in order to ride a preset course (so if you exerted more power for example it wouldn't be recorded). I am guessing that since you use your powertap while on your trainer that the latter is true.

It estimates how much power you're producing. It's not spot on compared to my power meters but not too far off. it can also set the resistance at the flywheel via the computerised link/pc software. in other words as you ride up a 'hill' (as shown in the computer graphics) the resistance becomes harder - you slow down and need to produce more (just like real life, sort of!).

ric

ric_stern/RST said:

It estimates how much power you're producing. It's not spot on compared to my power meters but not too far off. ric

Hi Ric/guys,

I just bought a CycleOps Electronic trainer (without the computer hookup) and I am just getting to know it. I am in the process of finding out my maximum sustainable power output for 20min+ and was planning to use the trainer mainly for interval training. I noticed the controller has LT intervals as a standard course, where the intervals are 8min and longer. How do you guys use the trainer to do shorter higher output intervals in the 1-4minute range?

Will the Ergometer fitness test accurate enough to use for supermaximal intervals in the 1-4min range?

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Alan

Ps The trainer has me abit depressed...it suggests I can only sustain 210watts for 20-60min. I am 35yrs old, 65kg and 16% fat. I hope I can improve as I am really enjoying xc mtb racing!

avyoung said:

Hi Ric/guys,

does that mean i'm not a guy :eek: 😠 LOL!

Quoted post said:

I just bought a CycleOps Electronic trainer (without the computer hookup) and I am just getting to know it. I am in the process of finding out my maximum sustainable power output for 20min+ and was planning to use the trainer mainly for interval training. I noticed the controller has LT intervals as a standard course, where the intervals are 8min and longer. How do you guys use the trainer to do shorter higher output intervals in the 1-4minute range?

as well as finding out what your TTpower is over a certain distance i'd also do a MAP test as well, see http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=powerstern. This way you can ascertain where your top end is and also ascertain your TT:MAP ability which may lead you to alter your training. additionally, having a coach will also greatly help you.

Quoted post said:

Will the Ergometer fitness test accurate enough to use for supermaximal intervals in the 1-4min range?

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Alan

for the short intervals that i do, i switch to quick ride mode (i think it's called) and do my intervals as prescribed.

Quoted post said:

Ps The trainer has me abit depressed...it suggests I can only sustain 210watts for 20-60min. I am 35yrs old, 65kg and 16% fat. I hope I can improve as I am really enjoying xc mtb racing!

it's important to realise that the trainer isn't as accurate as either a Power Tap or SRM, so the figures may be wrong depending on how you've set the unit up. You're the same age as me, and i see no reason why you shouldn't improve. again, getting a coach will likely help you solve your performance issues for racing. please give me a shout if you'd like to know more.

ric

does that mean i'm not a guy :eek: 😠 LOL!

Quoted message said:

You might be a guy...but you are 'special'😉

as well as finding out what your TTpower is over a certain distance i'd also do a MAP test as well, see cyclingnews.comfitnessOpen ↗. This way you can ascertain where your top end is and also ascertain your TT:MAP ability which may lead you to alter your training. additionally, having a coach will also greatly help you.

Quoted message said:

I just finished your MAP test: averaged 290w in the last minute. I bumped the power by 10w every 30seconds: is that okay? You suggested a ramp rate of 25w/min but 20w/min was easier math for me. It seems a MAP of 290w will give me an estimated 40kmTT power of 210 to 220w (similar to what I thought). It would seem my 'topend' and bottom end are equally low. I would imagine that it would be logical to bump up the topend first and then after I can make more power, interval train at higher TT power levels to extend the time I can make the additional power I have developed. Am I on the right line of thought? Finally, it seems the wrong time of year to be working on power increases. Is it unwise to work on 1-2min intervals at this time of the year (in additon to endurance rides) to prepare for higher levels of TT type training in the spring?

for the short intervals that i do, i switch to quick ride mode (i think it's called) and do my intervals as prescribed.

Quoted message said:

That's a great suggestion Ric. It works great for shorter intervals for me!

it's important to realise that the trainer isn't as accurate as either a Power Tap or SRM, so the figures may be wrong depending on how you've set the unit up. You're the same age as me, and i see no reason why you shouldn't improve. again, getting a coach will likely help you solve your performance issues for racing. please give me a shout if you'd like to know more.

Quoted message said:

I have read Friel's book, then Carmicheal's...and finally Dave Morris's book. Lately, I have been seriously considering a coach, but a few reasons make me feel indifferent about hiring a coach. I fix teeth and gums 6 days/week and even though I find work fairly stressful, taking care of my 19 month old son as delightful as he is, can be equally tiring and time consuming. With such little time that I have to train for bike racing, I feel a coach may be overkill even though, I think I can definately benefit from the help. I like the fact that you are easy to communicate with...but I was pretty hyped on Morris's block training plan.....decisions....decisions....

Quoted message said:

Thanks for your input, it has already helped!

Alan

ric

avyoung said:

Quoted message said:

I just finished your MAP test: averaged 290w in the last minute. I bumped the power by 10w every 30seconds: is that okay? You suggested a ramp rate of 25w/min but 20w/min was easier math for me. It seems a MAP of 290w will give me an estimated 40kmTT power of 210 to 220w (similar to what I thought). It would seem my 'topend' and bottom end are equally low.

by and large they're linked together. Although there can be some 'separation' between the two (e.g., you could increase your TT power without the same magnitude of change in MAP), they do correlate with each other. this is because, in part, we all have an upper limit to the % of VO2max (and MAP) that we can operate at. This upper limit is ~90% (of VO2max) in elite athletes (e.g., world record holders, TdF, etc) and either the same or very close in less trained athletes (for e.g., the last time i did a 40-km lab TT i was able to TT at 88% of VO2max and was a 2nd cat at the time).

Quoted post said:

I would imagine that it would be logical to bump up the topend first and then after I can make more power, interval train at higher TT power levels to extend the time I can make the additional power I have developed. Am I on the right line of thought? Finally, it seems the wrong time of year to be working on power increases. Is it unwise to work on 1-2min intervals at this time of the year (in additon to endurance rides) to prepare for higher levels of TT type training in the spring?

it depends. there's a limit to how much top end you can do, and which is more important to you (e.g., MAP or TT power, or some combo) which depends on your event selection. The idea that you suggest (increasing MAP) is one i have used with riders previously over the winter in what's now called reverse periodisation.

one to two min efforts are unlikely to specifically increase MAP as they'll be heavily dependent on AWC (anaerobic work capacity -- assuming there's an adequate recovery period between them). for intervals two increase MAP you typically want to be work for ~ 3.5 to 8 minutes to fully activate your VO2max. These will need to be done at a lower effort than your MAP

Quoted post said:

Quoted message said:

I have read Friel's book, then Carmicheal's...and finally Dave Morris's book. Lately, I have been seriously considering a coach, but a few reasons make me feel indifferent about hiring a coach. I fix teeth and gums 6 days/week

where were you when i had some horrible pain in one of my root filled sixes!?

Quoted post said:

and even though I find work fairly stressful, taking care of my 19 month old son as delightful as he is, can be equally tiring and time consuming. With such little time that I have to train for bike racing, I feel a coach may be overkill even though, I think I can definately benefit from the help. I like the fact that you are easy to communicate with...but I was pretty hyped on Morris's block training plan.....decisions....decisions....

a coach will be able to help you improve, looking objectively at your training and performances etc. at RST we coach a variety of athletes from recreational cyclists to Euro pros, and we care about all of them. a coach needs to be pretty accessible.

i don't know exactly what Morris's training block plan consists of, so i can't tell how, if at all, it differs from our methodology.

Quoted post said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks for your input, it has already helped!

Alan

cheers, glad to help

ric

ric_stern/RST said:

by and large they're linked together. Although there can be some 'separation' between the two (e.g., you could increase your TT power without the same magnitude of change in MAP), they do correlate with each other. this is because, in part, we all have an upper limit to the % of VO2max (and MAP) that we can operate at. This upper limit is ~90% (of VO2max) in elite athletes (e.g., world record holders, TdF, etc) and either the same or very close in less trained athletes (for e.g., the last time i did a 40-km lab TT i was able to TT at 88% of VO2max and was a 2nd cat at the time).it depends. there's a limit to how much top end you can do, and which is more important to you (e.g., MAP or TT power, or some combo) which depends on your event selection. The idea that you suggest (increasing MAP) is one i have used with riders previously over the winter in what's now called reverse periodisation.one to two min efforts are unlikely to specifically increase MAP as they'll be heavily dependent on AWC (anaerobic work capacity -- assuming there's an adequate recovery period between them). for intervals two increase MAP you typically want to be work for ~ 3.5 to 8 minutes to fully activate your VO2max. These will need to be done at a lower effort than your MAP

where were you when i had some horrible pain in one of my root filled sixes!?

Ric, I could continue to ask you a thousand and one questions with the information you have given me already, but that would be fulltime coaching for sure. I suppose we could trade dental services for coaching, although it would be hard for you to collect as I live in Vancouver, BC, Canada!

I suppose the reason for me to get the CycleOps 9400 trainer in the first place is that I have always had a problem with low power output. I am suspected to have beta-thalassemia minor (low hemoglobin ~120; lots of small stippled rbc--meaning large percentage of my rbc's are at the end of their life: damage presumably by the precipation of the excessive alpha-chains). I have not taken it further to test if there is reduction of beta-chain synthesis or truncated beta-chains; and have not tested the ratios of Hb A, Hb A2, and Hb F. (I was not sure what value the testing would to me). It seems logical that this condition would affect my VO2max with lower amounts of Hg, but also lower quality of HB. In addition, I would think that the distortion of the rbc shape may reduce the surface area of the membrane and reduce the transfer of oxygen. Unfortunately, I have not come across information on oxygen dissociation curve for beta-thalassemia or how it might affect endurance athletes. I see that you have researched sodium phosphate loading on TT performance. Since one hypothesis is that phosphates may ultimately affect the oxygen dissociation curve to increase performance, I wonder how it may affect my situation. Other related questions in my mind: how does it affect my 'topend' potential; how trainable is my power with beta-thalassemia....etc

If this topic interests you...certainly I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter...in any case, thanks!

Alan

avyoung said:

Ric, I could continue to ask you a thousand and one questions with the information you have given me already, but that would be fulltime coaching for sure. I suppose we could trade dental services for coaching, although it would be hard for you to collect as I live in Vancouver, BC, Canada!

I suppose the reason for me to get the CycleOps 9400 trainer in the first place is that I have always had a problem with low power output. I am suspected to have beta-thalassemia minor (low hemoglobin ~120; lots of small stippled rbc--meaning large percentage of my rbc's are at the end of their life: damage presumably by the precipation of the excessive alpha-chains). I have not taken it further to test if there is reduction of beta-chain synthesis or truncated beta-chains; and have not tested the ratios of Hb A, Hb A2, and Hb F. (I was not sure what value the testing would to me). It seems logical that this condition would affect my VO2max with lower amounts of Hg, but also lower quality of HB. In addition, I would think that the distortion of the rbc shape may reduce the surface area of the membrane and reduce the transfer of oxygen. Unfortunately, I have not come across information on oxygen dissociation curve for beta-thalassemia or how it might affect endurance athletes. I see that you have researched sodium phosphate loading on TT performance. Since one hypothesis is that phosphates may ultimately affect the oxygen dissociation curve to increase performance, I wonder how it may affect my situation. Other related questions in my mind: how does it affect my 'topend' potential; how trainable is my power with beta-thalassemia....etc

If this topic interests you...certainly I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter...in any case, thanks!

Alan

Alan,

These are very interesting questions. however, they're out of my 'sphere' and as such i can't supply good responses to them. Obviously, i can look up some of the info on the subject and some surrounding areas, but i feel that if you want good answers on this topic you'll need to consult with a specialist in this area. normally, with something out of my sphere i would refer someone to a specialist within the area and then consult with the rider and the consultant as to how exercise maybe impaired.

as regards phosphate loading, although the often cited reason is greater unloading of O2, this may not actually be the reason (it may actually increase cardiac outpt according to one study). more work needs to be done to understand the equivocal nature of phosphate loading.

ric

ric_stern/RST said:

Obviously, i can look up some of the info on the subject and some surrounding areas, but i feel that if you want good answers on this topic you'll need to consult with a specialist in this area. ric

Ric,

By no means did I want you to spend time looking things up. I thought you might have come across some info that would be related in your studies and experience.

If you ever have a client with the same condition...I already asked my physician and he said I did not quailfied for use of EPO🙄

Thanks!
Aaln

avyoung said:

Ric,

By no means did I want you to spend time looking things up. I thought you might have come across some info that would be related in your studies and experience.

If you ever have a client with the same condition...I already asked my physician and he said I did not quailfied for use of EPO🙄

Thanks!
Aaln

Just to clarify, it's immensely important to research these areas, and i have had a *brief* look (today) and will look more. however, what i suppose i meant was that this would require lots of reading the research, and i would still be way below the expertise of your consultant and thus not able to offer a useful/valid opinion. i believe it's immensely important to pass queries out to those who are experts in the field.

if i come across anything pertinent to you, i'll let you know,
ric