Anyone miss Cipo?

Nev Shea said:

So the sprints could be more interesting with him there, and then he could add some entertainment
by some antic like wearing a toga. But I don't think the race is really suffering without him.

BTW, good thing McWhiner saved his energy yesterday.

As long as Allessandro Petacchi is still in the race, I doubt McWhiner will get his stage win ...
Here's hoping Petacchi makes it to Paris!!!

In article <[email hidden]>, Nev Shea

Quoted message said:

So the sprints could be more interesting with him there, and then he could add some entertainment
by some antic like wearing a toga. But I don't think the race is really suffering without him.

BTW, good thing McWhiner saved his energy yesterday.

NS

I have to admit, I would have liked to have seen him at the prologue, rolling out of the start house
in some wacky skinsuit.

"Nev Shea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So the sprints could be more interesting with him there, and then he could add some entertainment
by some antic like wearing a toga. But I don't

think

Quoted message said:

the race is really suffering without him.

BTW, good thing McWhiner saved his energy yesterday.

The best sprinter in the world today is Petacchi. If The Lion Queen were at the TdF, he'd be losing
to Petacchi, just like at the Giro.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Nev Shea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So the sprints could be more interesting with him there, and then he

could

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

add some entertainment by some antic like wearing a toga. But I don't

think

Quoted message said:

the race is really suffering without him.

BTW, good thing McWhiner saved his energy yesterday.

The best sprinter in the world today is Petacchi. If The Lion Queen were

at

Quoted message said:

the TdF, he'd be losing to Petacchi, just like at the Giro.

Amen!

-T

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Nev Shea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So the sprints could be more interesting with him there, and then he

could

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

add some entertainment by some antic like wearing a toga. But I don't

think

Quoted message said:

the race is really suffering without him.

BTW, good thing McWhiner saved his energy yesterday.

The best sprinter in the world today is Petacchi. If The Lion Queen were

at

Quoted message said:

the TdF, he'd be losing to Petacchi, just like at the Giro.

Wouldn't you rather see it happen than guess? Petacchi would get a lot out of beating the current
rainbow jersey that he lead out for the win. I think Mario would have won at least one. He is always
hyper motivated. Petacchi admits he needs his director yelling at him to get him to go for the win.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

The best sprinter in the world today is Petacchi. If The Lion Queen were at the TdF, he'd be
losing to Petacchi, just like at the Giro.

I do agree that Petacchi looked better than Cipo at the Giro, but their record was Petacchi 3 vs.
Cipo 2 while Mario was still in the Giro. Yes, Petacchi was leading their head-to-head competition,
but not dominating it.

Mark

"Mark Lancaster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

The best sprinter in the world today is Petacchi. If The Lion Queen were

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the TdF, he'd be losing to Petacchi, just like at the Giro.

I do agree that Petacchi looked better than Cipo at the Giro, but their record was Petacchi 3 vs.
Cipo 2 while Mario was still in the Giro. Yes, Petacchi was leading their head-to-head
competition, but not dominating it.

Petacchi was beating The Lion Queen when The Queen was getting a leadout and Petacchi had to fight
for wheels.

Here's something from a better authority, Zabel.

from: cyclingnews.comnewsOpen ↗

Erik Zabel (3rd yesterday) was quoted in the Belgian VUM papers as saying, "Petacchi is *the*
sprinter." Zabel punctured with twelve kilometres to go but he refused to use that as an excuse. "I
was waited on by four of my team mates and I got back to the peloton quite quickly. I didn't lose
that much power doing so. Petacchi didn't win six stages in the Giro just like that, he is just the
faster man. He's the best sprinter in the world at the moment.

"Mark Lancaster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

The best sprinter in the world today is Petacchi. If The Lion Queen were

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the TdF, he'd be losing to Petacchi, just like at the Giro.

I do agree that Petacchi looked better than Cipo at the Giro, but their record was Petacchi 3 vs.
Cipo 2 while Mario was still in the Giro. Yes, Petacchi was leading their head-to-head
competition, but not dominating it.

Mark

Given the chaos in the bunch sprints so far, I think Cipo's team would have a hard time setting him
up for the finish. There are just too many riders/teams contesting the final 500m. Petacchi seems to
be doing a lot of it on his own which seems to work to his advantage.

-T

Nev Shea said:

So the sprints could be more interesting with him there, and then he could add some entertainment
by some antic like wearing a toga. But I don't think the race is really suffering without him.

BTW, good thing McWhiner saved his energy yesterday.

NS

WHo? Oh yeah... the guy from Italy who bails the minute the grades approaches 3%.

In other words... no.. I don't miss the lying king one damn bit.

Joe
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Tom Schulenburg <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Given the chaos in the bunch sprints so far, I think Cipo's team would

have

Quoted message said:

a hard time setting him up for the finish. There are just too many riders/teams contesting the
final 500m. Petacchi seems to be doing a lot

of

Quoted message said:

it on his own which seems to work to his advantage.

The chaos in the sprints is the result of the absence of a really good leadout team, like Domina
Vacanze. The presence of such a team would also have increased the safety of the finishes. Perhaps
some riders would still be in contention if Cipollini had been present. Sure, Petacchi appears to
be a better sprinter - but we already knew that from the Giro. Domina Vacanze, however, is the
better sprinter team and it has a fitting leader. After all, claiming that Petacchi is better does
not make Cipollini a lousy sprinter. Far from it; I think he's faster than McEwen, Zabel,
Vainsteins, JP Nazon, Freire, Cooke and the vast majority of stage-win hopefuls we've seen the last
couple of days. The ease of Petacchi's victories strongly suggests that Cipollini would have
increased the level of the competition. In addition, Domina Vacanze would have made it difficult
for GC riders or unexperienced sprinters (as Cooke, McEwen and McGee have complained about) to be
in the front in the final km. That way, there would have been less riders side by side or trying to
squeeze themselves in between others. A good navigator makes a safer sprint for all riders, not
just those from his own team.

Jonathan.

Tom Schulenburg said:

Given the chaos in the bunch sprints so far, I think Cipo's team would have a hard time setting
him up for the finish. There are just too many riders/teams contesting the final 500m. Petacchi
seems to be doing a lot of it on his own which seems to work to his advantage.

-T

Phil and Paul (I think) were remarking a couple days ago how Cipo's team would remove some of the
chaos from the early days because of their strong leadouts. The way they maintain that incredibly
high speed for such a long time makes shenanigans by others virtually impossible.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

The chaos in the sprints is the result of the absence of a really good leadout team, like Domina
Vacanze. The presence of such a team would also have increased the safety of the finishes. Perhaps
some riders would still be in contention if Cipollini had been present. Sure, Petacchi appears to
be a better sprinter - but we already knew that from the Giro. Domina Vacanze, however, is the
better sprinter team and it has a fitting leader. After all, claiming that Petacchi is better does
not make Cipollini a lousy sprinter. Far from it; I think he's faster than McEwen, Zabel,
Vainsteins, JP Nazon, Freire, Cooke and the vast majority of stage-win hopefuls we've seen the
last couple of days. The ease of Petacchi's victories strongly suggests that Cipollini would have
increased the level of the competition. In addition, Domina Vacanze would have made it difficult
for GC riders or unexperienced sprinters (as Cooke, McEwen and McGee have complained about) to be
in the front in the final km. That way, there would have been less riders side by side or trying
to squeeze themselves in between others. A good navigator makes a safer sprint for all riders, not
just those from his own team.

All good points. Now, let's ignore the impact to the GC race of Hamilton and Leipheimer being taken
out in that Stage 1 pile up -- what would you rather watch:

A: A zebra striped lead out, and a few guys fighting for Cipo's wheel and seeing if anyone can get
around him

B: A winner emerging from total chaos

I'd rather watch "B".

NS

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Mark Lancaster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

The best sprinter in the world today is Petacchi. If The Lion Queen were

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the TdF, he'd be losing to Petacchi, just like at the Giro.

I do agree that Petacchi looked better than Cipo at the Giro, but their record was Petacchi 3 vs.
Cipo 2 while Mario was still in the Giro. Yes, Petacchi was leading their head-to-head
competition, but not dominating it.

Petacchi was beating The Lion Queen when The Queen was getting a leadout and Petacchi had to fight
for wheels.

Here's something from a better authority, Zabel.

After today's stage both McEwen and Cooke admitted on ITV2 (UK) that Petacchi was the best sprinter
in the Tour - after today's stage who could say otherwise?

Regards! Stephen

Why do folks here hate winners so much? It seems that everyone is looking for the new guy to upset
the champ. Maybe Tyler will beat Lance. Petacchi will beat Cipo. Give Cipo his due. He has won a TON
of races and is the World Champ. So, he is a bit flamboyant. That makes for fun racing doesn't it?

Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery LaSalle, Il 815-223-1776
heronbicycles.comheronbicycles.comOpen ↗ tullios.comtullios.comOpen ↗

Nev Shea <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

So the sprints could be more interesting with him there, and then he could add some entertainment
by some antic like wearing a toga. But I don't think the race is really suffering without him.

Not suffering without Cipo but the control of the final 5-10 K's is suffering without Cipo's
leadout train.

I loved watching the overhead shots from the Giro where guys were punching each other to get in that
train. That's the best stuff!

-Ken

Nev Shea said:

A: A zebra striped lead out, and a few guys fighting for Cipo's wheel and seeing if anyone can get
around him

B: A winner emerging from total chaos

I'd rather watch "B".

NS

You can watch chaos in a cat 3 race. The point is to see the best emerge from the best. Cipo and
Pitacchi was very close at the Giro, until Cipo's crash. The Tour should have been the rematch.

The issue is -- is the Tour just about the jerseys, or do stage wins matter? If the latter, than
Cipo's squad belongs in the race. And I think the prize money and UCI schedules imply that stage
wins DO matter.

"Todd Kuzma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why do folks here hate winners so much? It seems that everyone is looking for the new guy to
upset the champ. Maybe Tyler will beat Lance. Petacchi will beat Cipo. Give Cipo his due. He has
won a TON

185 and counting.

of races and is the World

Quoted message said:

Champ. So, he is a bit flamboyant. That makes for fun racing doesn't it?

Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery LaSalle, Il 815-223-1776
heronbicycles.comheronbicycles.comOpen ↗ tullios.comtullios.comOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, Daniel Connelly

Quoted message said:

Nev Shea said:

A: A zebra striped lead out, and a few guys fighting for Cipo's wheel and seeing if anyone can
get around him

B: A winner emerging from total chaos

I'd rather watch "B".

NS

You can watch chaos in a cat 3 race. The point is to see the best emerge from the best. Cipo and
Pitacchi was very close at the Giro, until Cipo's crash. The Tour should have been the rematch.

The issue is -- is the Tour just about the jerseys, or do stage wins matter? If the latter, than
Cipo's squad belongs in the race. And I think the prize money and UCI schedules imply that stage
wins DO matter.

I asked Max Testa (currently coaching 3 of the Fassa guys, former doctor for Mapei, Motorola, etc.)
about this yesterday. He was commenting how Petacchi had to be convinced to go to the Tour by his
team and he hardly prepared for the Tour, and even though he's won some stages he still talks about
wanting to go home like Cipo always does. Max said that the Italians (most Italians) care about the
Giro and not the Tour. The Italian riders say the Tour is for the rest of the world and the
Spaniards care alot more about the Vuelta than the Tour. At least, that is what they tell each other
but not the public.

-WG

"Todd Kuzma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why do folks here hate winners so much?

I don't dislike winners, but I do dislike prima donnas.

K. Gringioni fan of The Lion Queen