Anybody ride folders?

Quoted message said:

Does anybody ride folders? I saw the one on this site, and it looked
pretty nice.

http://sfbikes.com/

My brother rode a 26" Dahon folder on a ride we both did on the Dalton
Highway - from Fairbanks to Prudhoe Bay last summer
(http://www.mvermeulen.com/dalton/). That was a fairly rugged route
with ~300 miles of gravel road and 500 miles total distance.

His bike did ok, though he started to have difficulties with his
bottom bracket. I attribute this not so much to being a folder as
that the bike had some low-end components and we were in rugged
conditions.

He did save $ compared to me, since his folding bicycle traveled as a
piece of luggage and I paid ~$85 each way for my non-folding bicycle.

--mev, Mike Vermeulen

My wife and I have had Bromptons for 3 years and have ridden them in
many cities around the world. Not suitable for touring but great for
commuting - carry on to train or bus - and for sightseeing in a City.
The Birdy looks good but is expensive.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anybody ride folders? I saw the one on this site, and it looked
pretty nice.

Go right to the best folders: www.bikefriday.com Top notch frame and parts.
You can even get one without the front derailleur if you wish. It has its
own suitcase or bag, and the airlines don't charge extra for it. I rode one
in September all over Ireland. It's a great bike!

Pat in TX

I ride a Bike Friday Sat-R Day and my riding buddy rides a Bike Friday
Lama. We have ridden in Maine, New Hampshire, Quebec, New Brunswick,
Newfoundland, Labrador, France, Italy, Corsica, Sardinia, Croatia, and
Slovenia with our folders.

I would have to say the Bike Friday folders don't really do the job for
long self contained tours. They take too long to pack and aren't really
built well enough for for touring other than on the flats. Their bike
seems to betas or works in progress. They never seem to quite become
finished, reliable bikes.

We are both engineers and fanatics on bike maintenance. Despite that we
have had a major mechanical breakdown on every trip, Reliability just
isn't there for Bike Friday. Failures have included broken welds,
headsets that won't stay tight, misaligned brackets, and kickstands
that never work. Evey trip we discover a new weak point. This doesn't
happen when I ride my Ryan Vanguard and Bennett rides his Eddy Meryx or
Waterford.

We are planning a 1000 mile ride in July through Washington, Oregon and
Idaho. We are checking out routes for our Cross Country ride next year.
There is no way we would consider taking our Bike Fridays on that
trip. Yes, it will cost me an extra $200 to ship the Ryan but it is
definitely worth it to avoid the hassle of breaking down in the middle
of no where.

If you plan light riding they are OK, but if you have a self contained
tour through the mountains planned, it is easier to take you regular
bike. This has always been true but it is even more true now.

If your Bike Friday is opened for inspection don't expect the people
that opened it to be able to get it back in the case. With practice it
is an tedious chore, there is no way an inspector would ever be able to
do it.

Save you money and get a good touring bike and spend a little more to
ship it to where you are going. I know it sounds like a hassle but
believe me it is easier than travelling with a Bike Friday.

Roland

ebent.wordpress.com

Quoted message said:

If your Bike Friday is opened for inspection don't expect the people
that opened it to be able to get it back in the case. With practice it
is an tedious chore, there is no way an inspector would ever be able to
do it.

Quoted message said:

Save you money and get a good touring bike and spend a little more to
ship it to where you are going. I know it sounds like a hassle but
believe me it is easier than travelling with a Bike Friday.

I've taken my Air Friday to Europe twice. Both times TSA opened the
suitcase. A few things got shifted around but the contents arrived just
fine. I used to travel with my full-sized Steve Rex take-apart bike
with S&S torque couplers, but the Air Friday is more inconspicuous as a
piece of luggage.

I can't comment on the observatons about loaded touring, though you'll
find many customer testimonials on that score at the company website. I
ride my Air Friday several times a week at home, alternating with my
Rex, and I've ridden the Air Friday in a couple of Italian "granfondi"
which included some tough climbs, as well as doing my own climbs in the
Maritime Alps of Piedmont, Italy.

I find my Air Friday to be a well-made bicycle which continues to
perform well, and the people at Bike Friday have always been very
helpful and attentive. I find it difficult to believe that they could
continue to stay in business for several decades if they were selling
shoddy merchandise.

In article <[email hidden]>,

dorkypants said:

Quoted message said:

If your Bike Friday is opened for inspection don't expect the people
that opened it to be able to get it back in the case. With practice it
is an tedious chore, there is no way an inspector would ever be able to
do it.

Quoted message said:

Save you money and get a good touring bike and spend a little more to
ship it to where you are going. I know it sounds like a hassle but
believe me it is easier than travelling with a Bike Friday.

I've taken my Air Friday to Europe twice. Both times TSA opened the
suitcase. A few things got shifted around but the contents arrived just
fine. I used to travel with my full-sized Steve Rex take-apart bike
with S&S torque couplers, but the Air Friday is more inconspicuous as a
piece of luggage.

I can't comment on the observatons about loaded touring, though you'll
find many customer testimonials on that score at the company website. I
ride my Air Friday several times a week at home, alternating with my
Rex, and I've ridden the Air Friday in a couple of Italian "granfondi"
which included some tough climbs, as well as doing my own climbs in the
Maritime Alps of Piedmont, Italy.

I find my Air Friday to be a well-made bicycle which continues to
perform well, and the people at Bike Friday have always been very
helpful and attentive. I find it difficult to believe that they could
continue to stay in business for several decades if they were selling
shoddy merchandise.

You snipped the attribution so I don't know to whom you are responding.
However, I don't think that he or she was implying that the Bike Friday
is shoddy goods, only that it takes a certain amount of skill to pack
the thing and various inspectors might not have the skill to put it back
the way they found it. However, I disagree with his conclusion. Taking
a bike in a full-sized bike case is a real PITA with most airlines- and
an expensive one as US airlines are reportedly charging for bikes on
international flights ($80 each way for Continental, for example, from
what I have been reading). The Bike Friday would be a lot more
convenient and cheaper as it is standard size luggage. If one flew a
lot it would be a break even proposition fairly quickly.

I don't personally ride one because at 6'4" and 225 lbs this week, I'd
look like a circus bear on a bike! I also always found them to have a
sort of "inchworm" feel when riding. Better for smaller and lighter
people than me, I suspect.

ken said:

My wife and I have had Bromptons for 3 years and have ridden them in
many cities around the world. Not suitable for touring but great for
commuting - carry on to train or bus - and for sightseeing in a City.
The Birdy looks good but is expensive.

A few years ago, Brompton, Birdy, etc., were the best small folders. But
Dahon has been steadily improving its products to where they're as good or
better than anything else, and cheaper too. Even the notoriously
chauvinistic British mags are giving top marks to Dahon these days.

Matt O.

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"dorkypants" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've taken my Air Friday to Europe twice. Both times TSA opened the
suitcase. A few things got shifted around but the contents arrived just
fine. I used to travel with my full-sized Steve Rex take-apart bike
with S&S torque couplers, but the Air Friday is more inconspicuous as a
piece of luggage.

I can't comment on the observatons about loaded touring, though you'll
find many customer testimonials on that score at the company website. I
ride my Air Friday several times a week at home, alternating with my
Rex, and I've ridden the Air Friday in a couple of Italian "granfondi"
which included some tough climbs, as well as doing my own climbs in the
Maritime Alps of Piedmont, Italy.

I find my Air Friday to be a well-made bicycle which continues to
perform well, and the people at Bike Friday have always been very
helpful and attentive. I find it difficult to believe that they could
continue to stay in business for several decades if they were selling
shoddy merchandise.

You snipped the attribution so I don't know to whom you are responding.
However, I don't think that he or she was implying that the Bike Friday
is shoddy goods, only that it takes a certain amount of skill to pack
the thing and various inspectors might not have the skill to put it back
the way they found it. However, I disagree with his conclusion. Taking
a bike in a full-sized bike case is a real PITA with most airlines- and
an expensive one as US airlines are reportedly charging for bikes on
international flights ($80 each way for Continental, for example, from
what I have been reading). The Bike Friday would be a lot more
convenient and cheaper as it is standard size luggage. If one flew a
lot it would be a break even proposition fairly quickly.

S&S coupled bikes and the similar Ritchey Breakaway are standard luggage
too, and otherwise completely conventional. If you travel much there's no
reason not to have one of these as your only bike. My impression is they
build up and break down more easily/quickly than a Bike Friday too.

Though most cars these days have fold-down rear seats, with a coupled bike
it becomes a non-issue. So they're worthwhile for car trips too.

Matt O.

Matt O'Toole said:

S&S coupled bikes and the similar Ritchey Breakaway are standard luggage
too, and otherwise completely conventional. If you travel much there's no
reason not to have one of these as your only bike. My impression is they
build up and break down more easily/quickly than a Bike Friday too.

Though most cars these days have fold-down rear seats, with a coupled bike
it becomes a non-issue. So they're worthwhile for car trips too.

I find the knockdown and setup time to be more-or-less the same between
my Air Friday and my S&S equipped Steve Rex. For me, the bulk of the
time goes into arranging the pieces in the case when packing, and in
making sure everything's adjusted properly on setup.

The Bike Fridays have a quick-fold option for transport in cars and
trains, which can be done without any tools. I don't know about the
Ritchey design. The S&S couplers require the special wrench to loosen
and tighten them, and as they are made of stainless steel, the threads
must be properly greased so they don't gall and seize.

Both designs make good travel bikes and bikes which perform well. They
just have different tradeoffs.

Quoted message said:

I would have to say the Bike Friday folders don't really do the job for
long self contained tours.

I haven't taken my Bike Friday on a tour with panniers, so I can't speak to
that. I pull the trailer behind the bike and find it to be a well-made well
thought out set up. I put my tent, cooking gear, etc. in the trailer until
it weighed 54 pounds and the thing rolled behind the bike easily. My Pocket
Gnu is geared pretty much the same as my mountain bike and I rode up the
hills in Ireland just fine.

Quoted message said:

Their bike seems to betas or works in progress. They never seem to quite
become
finished, reliable bikes.

What does this mean? Those people have been in business for years. If their
bikes weren't finished and reliable, they would have gone out of business
long ago.

Quoted message said:

We are both engineers and fanatics on bike maintenance. Despite that we
have had a major mechanical breakdown on every trip, Reliability just
isn't there for Bike Friday. Failures have included broken welds,
headsets that won't stay tight, misaligned brackets, and kickstands
that never work. Evey trip we discover a new weak point.

My Pocket Gnu has a Chris King headset. It stays tight just fine. No welds
have broken, nor have any brackets been misalligned. I found the kickstand
to be too short for my tastes, so I just bought a longer one. No big deal
there.

Quoted message said:

We are planning a 1000 mile ride in July through Washington, Oregon and
Idaho. We are checking out routes for our Cross Country ride next year.
There is no way we would consider taking our Bike Fridays on that
trip. Yes, it will cost me an extra $200 to ship the Ryan but it is
definitely worth it to avoid the hassle of breaking down in the middle
of no where.

You should check with Heinz Stucke as he holds the "most traveled person by
bike" record according to Guiness Records, and he rides a Pocket Llama. He
uses panniers.

Quoted message said:

If your Bike Friday is opened for inspection don't expect the people
that opened it to be able to get it back in the case. With practice it
is an tedious chore, there is no way an inspector would ever be able to
do it.

This is no big deal, either. As per the Bike Friday people's instructions, I
bought a bungee cord web and draped it in the suitcase. I folded up the bike
and put it atop the bungee cords. Then, I simply hooked the hooks together
so that the Airport security people could lift up the whole thing as a unit
(which they did, twice, in Philadelphia). The whole thing took about 30
minutes, but that was only the second time that I had attempted it, so I
expect to get faster for the next trip. I also took photos of the bike in
the suitcase and taped them to the inside of the suitcase as an extra aid
for the inspectors. There were absolutely no problems with it. I simply
rolled the suitcase over to a corner at Shannon Airport and reassembled it.
In 30 minutes I was out of the door and off on the road to Corofin.

Quoted message said:

Save you money and get a good touring bike and spend a little more to
ship it to where you are going. I know it sounds like a hassle but
believe me it is easier than travelling with a Bike Friday.

Roland

I don't know why you are so down on Bike Fridays. The other owners I have
talked to haven't had your problems with the bikes. My Pocket Gnu is built
very sturdily and I have ridden it off road, even, and on gravel roads. No
problems at all. I bought the bag and can fold the bike part way and put it
in the bag (with shoulder straps even) and put it in the trunk of my Civic.

Pat in TX

Quoted message said:

S&S coupled bikes and the similar Ritchey Breakaway are standard luggage
too, and otherwise completely conventional. If you travel much there's no
reason not to have one of these as your only bike. My impression is they
build up and break down more easily/quickly than a Bike Friday too.

Though most cars these days have fold-down rear seats, with a coupled bike
it becomes a non-issue. So they're worthwhile for car trips too.

Matt O.

My Bike Friday doesn't have a front derailleur to bother with. I understand
that could be a problem with the coupled bikes--keeping the front derailleur
aligned right and the cables right, etc., with continued packing and
unpacking--or maybe I should say "separating."

Pat in TX

Pat in TX said:

My Bike Friday doesn't have a front derailleur to bother with. I understand
that could be a problem with the coupled bikes--keeping the front derailleur
aligned right and the cables right, etc., with continued packing and
unpacking--or maybe I should say "separating."

Usually on a single bike the couplers are (1) just ahead of the saddle
on the top tube, (2) just above the BB on the down tube. When the 2
halves of the frame are separated the drivetrain stays intact with the
rear triangle. Since the chainrings project forward farther than the
front derailleur, it's reasonably well protected.

It's useful to have cable quick-disconnects on both shift cables, and
perhaps the rear brake cable as well, to avoid having to unthread them
(not really possible if you have crimp on end-caps on the cables). The
quick disconnects also virtually ensure that you don't have to fiddle
with getting the cable tensions correct again on reassembly.

If you pack a folder in a suitcase, make sure you bungee cord all the
components so they don't fall in disarray if TSA opens it. I label my
suitcase with a note " OPEN THIS SIDE UP" so i'ts not opened the wrong
way. I try to put my tubes etc in clear plastic bags so they see
what's inside. No need to spread them apart. I also put picts of how
the folders disassemble step by step so the inspector sees it and I
don't forget to pack it.

Dahons and Bike Fridays are both good bikes but there is a difference
between them. Dahons are more like quick fold bikes - mere seconds
They don't hold as much as the Biek Friday. More like a mini commuter
car. Perfect for commutes with a train/bus component. Priced reasonably
as well

Bike Fridays are more minor disassembly bikes so it takes longer to
pack em or fold. However they hold more - like a mini van. SO good for
loaded tours where you tend to carry huge panniers.

As I rider, think of exactly how you want to use the bike. Can't have
evertything. Just like life, there are always compromises.

Hope this helps

J Gaerlan
Gaerlan Custom Cycles

Quoted message said:

Bike Fridays are more minor disassembly bikes so it takes longer to
pack em or fold. However they hold more - like a mini van. SO good for
loaded tours where you tend to carry huge panniers.

As I rider, think of exactly how you want to use the bike. Can't have
evertything. Just like life, there are always compromises.

Hope this helps

J Gaerlan

I use the trailer instead of panniers. Have you tried that? If not, where do
you keep the trailer while you are gone on the tour?

Pat in TX

Don't buy a cheap Dahon, save up or buy a bike friday or Brompton. Dahons
are cheap china built bikes with low end stuff, I don't like either one of
mine but use the 16 " one for up the street stuff.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I ride a Bike Friday Sat-R Day and my riding buddy rides a Bike Friday
Lama. We have ridden in Maine, New Hampshire, Quebec, New Brunswick,
Newfoundland, Labrador, France, Italy, Corsica, Sardinia, Croatia, and
Slovenia with our folders.

I would have to say the Bike Friday folders don't really do the job for
long self contained tours. They take too long to pack and aren't really
built well enough for for touring other than on the flats. Their bike
seems to betas or works in progress. They never seem to quite become
finished, reliable bikes.

We are both engineers and fanatics on bike maintenance. Despite that we
have had a major mechanical breakdown on every trip, Reliability just
isn't there for Bike Friday. Failures have included broken welds,
headsets that won't stay tight, misaligned brackets, and kickstands
that never work. Evey trip we discover a new weak point. This doesn't
happen when I ride my Ryan Vanguard and Bennett rides his Eddy Meryx or
Waterford.

We are planning a 1000 mile ride in July through Washington, Oregon and
Idaho. We are checking out routes for our Cross Country ride next year.
There is no way we would consider taking our Bike Fridays on that
trip. Yes, it will cost me an extra $200 to ship the Ryan but it is
definitely worth it to avoid the hassle of breaking down in the middle
of no where.

If you plan light riding they are OK, but if you have a self contained
tour through the mountains planned, it is easier to take you regular
bike. This has always been true but it is even more true now.

If your Bike Friday is opened for inspection don't expect the people
that opened it to be able to get it back in the case. With practice it
is an tedious chore, there is no way an inspector would ever be able to
do it.

Save you money and get a good touring bike and spend a little more to
ship it to where you are going. I know it sounds like a hassle but
believe me it is easier than travelling with a Bike Friday.

Roland

ebent.wordpress.com

Bennett and I are down on Bike Friday for one simple reason. Our bikes
spend more time back at the factory being repaired than they do with
us. The Sat-R Day was dropped because of all the problems Bike Friday
had with it. Mine went back the factory 3 times for major design
changes and upgrades. It is a fun bike to ride around the neighborhood
but can't handle the stress of touring.

The Lama has had a similar history. The headset problem has never
really been fixed. Nothing like riding down the mountain and finding
that your headset has loosened again and you have little or no control.
It is also an awful bike to ride for distance unless you are really
short. The riding position is way too high.

I find that people that rave about Bike Fridays fall into two groups.
People who have bought them and really don't tour. They have done their
one a year. Or they have just bought one and feel they have to justify
the expense.

I challenge anyone to quickly pack a Sat-R Day. What I was told by the
factory is that there is only one guy who can fit the rack in the case.
he's the guy that packs them all up for shipping.

If you don't think there is a shipping problem with Bike Fridays try
reading the groups. They are desperately trying to revive their
business with a lot of new models. There is definitely a place for a
well designed travel bike.

I've spent over 30 years designing and introducing new products and I
can testify that the Lama and the Sat-R Day never got past the beta
stage.

Roland
eBent.com

Quoted message said:

I find that people that rave about Bike Fridays fall into two groups.
People who have bought them and really don't tour. They have done their
one a year. Or they have just bought one and feel they have to justify
the expense.

I dislike generalizations. That would be like me saying that people who
disparage Bike Fridays fall into two groups: people who have bought the
wrong model for their intended use and have buyer's regret, and people who
have an agenda against folding bicycles in general. Would that be as valid
as your generalization?

I prefer to find out for myself, and so far, we have not had any problems
whatsoever. You say the headsets fall apart, but I don't see any great hue
and cry against Chris King headsets. Perhaps your Pocket Llama is one of the
first ones sold--my Pocket Gnu is a sturdy little workhorse with mountain
bike gearing and wide tires. As for your remark about the height of the
ride, it makes me think that you may be tall. I am 5'8", so maybe I fit the
bike better than you do--well, it was made to my specifications, so it
should!

As for packing the Sat-R-Day, I cannot. I don't have one, so that's a moot
point. I can pack the Pocket Gnu just fine without a lot of angst. I don't
know what "shipping problem" you are talking about. Perhaps you can tell me
which "groups" you are referencing. My position is this: I like the
product, I have used the product, and I am still using it (planning a trip
to Spain at the present). If that changes, I will report back. But it will
only be on my particular bike, not on every Bike Friday and on every person
who purchases them. I don't like generalizations.

Pat in TX

Quoted post said:

I find that people that rave about Bike Fridays fall into two groups.
People who have bought them and really don't tour. They have done their
one a year. Or they have just bought one and feel they have to justify
the expense.

Does it stand to reason that any folder has more
"potential" failure points since the frame isn't a
continuous design?

Matt O'Toole said:

Though most cars these days have fold-down rear seats, with a coupled bike
it becomes a non-issue.

That's a good point on fold down seats

I can take front wheel off any bike and get it in my
car