Any thoughts on LED headlights?

Dave Stallard said:

Does anybody have any thoughts/recommendations on LED headlights? I'm
not talking about the blinkers, I'm talking about something that throws
out a beam you can see by. These new LED lights seem to have come
along while I was not paying attention 😉, and can run for hours on a
small set of batteries, because they convert most of the power to light,
rather than heat. But can they throw a beam?

This mostly would be for bikepath use, so I can see the path 20 ft or so
ahead of me.

I bought a Cateye HL-EL200 as a light to clip onto any of my three
"unlit" bikes (the other has a dynamo setup) if I need to ride at dusk.
It's pretty good for being seen but next to useless for seeing by.
There is a real beam but it's about half as bright as a halogen lamp
taking the same 4 AA batteries, and the blue colour of the LED doesn't
help at all.

The larger, uglier EL-300 (British Standard approved for road use) is
supposed to be a little bit better, as is the new EL-500. I haven't
tried either of these myself, but at the moment I think you should be
looking at an old-school incandescent light for unlit roads.

Dave Stallard said:

Does anybody have any thoughts/recommendations on LED headlights? I'm
not talking about the blinkers, I'm talking about something that throws
out a beam you can see by. These new LED lights seem to have come along
while I was not paying attention 😉, and can run for hours on a small set
of batteries, because they convert most of the power to light, rather than
heat. But can they throw a beam?

I have a 1-watt Planet Bike light. I consider it OK for being seen, and
marginal for seeing. I have yet to see a better one, but maybe they are
out there now. Mine is a long way shy of the light put out by my 15-watt
NiteRider, which is what I consider a good amount of light. Approaching
traffic seems to expect me to be on a motorcycle with that thing, and I
can see well enough to be comfortable at 20mph.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | It is a scientifically proven fact that a mid life crisis can
_`\(,_ | only be cured by something racy and Italian. Bianchis and
(_)/ (_) | Colnagos are a lot cheaper than Maserattis and Ferraris. --
Glenn Davies

I have _four_ EL-500's and that's okay, perhaps marginal against an
oncoming car though when you may have to estimate the road edge.

The plus is not having to change the batteries so often (30 hours,
it says, though NiMH is less), so I can get several trips out of them.

A higher-wattage light is back into frequent battery changes / charges.

With NiMH batteries, beware of a single light; it will go from bright
to dim in a few minutes when the battery dies. I have a lower capacity
set of AA's in one of my lights so it's a canary-in-the-mine for the
rest. When it goes dim, charge them all.

In deep darkness, you can ride with very low light; it's competing
lights that requires the use of more light of your own, to see the
road surface.
--
Ron Hardin
[email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

Ron Hardin said:

I have _four_ EL-500's and that's okay, perhaps marginal against an
oncoming car though when you may have to estimate the road edge.

The plus is not having to change the batteries so often (30 hours,
it says, though NiMH is less), so I can get several trips out of them.

A higher-wattage light is back into frequent battery changes / charges.

With NiMH batteries, beware of a single light; it will go from bright
to dim in a few minutes when the battery dies. I have a lower capacity
set of AA's in one of my lights so it's a canary-in-the-mine for the
rest. When it goes dim, charge them all.

In deep darkness, you can ride with very low light; it's competing
lights that requires the use of more light of your own, to see the
road surface.

My problem is coming down a bikepath at night, where numerous clueless
users are not carrying any light, back or front. I'd like to be able to
see them in time to do something about it.

Dave

"Dave Stallard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ron Hardin wrote:

My problem is coming down a bikepath at night, where numerous clueless
users are not carrying any light, back or front. I'd like to be able to
see them in time to do something about it.

Isn't that the truth. I'd guess that only 10% of the folks (bicylist,
in-line skaters, runners, dog walkers, ...) I see on some bike paths at
night have any type of light.

I don't know if it's out yet, but Light & Motion is coming out with a 3W LED
based on the 3W Lumileds part. I believe it's called the Vega, and has even
appeared in the Nashbar catalog. They also overdrive it on it's highest
power (with some sort of modulation scheme so as not to impact the lifespan
of the LED), and they say it gives off an equal or greater amount of light
vs. the Lumileds 5W part. It also uses NiMH batteries and a quick smart
charger. Cost is on the high side however.

You can also look at some of the better LED flashlights from folks like
Surefire and use a Twofish strap to connect it to your handlebars. Surefire
has a number of 5W LED flashlights on the market.

I believe LEDs are more efficient than halogen type bulbs, but still much of
their energy useage generates heat rather than light.

"rosco" <reverse-the-following"ocsor_g"@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I believe LEDs are more efficient than halogen type bulbs, but still
much of their energy useage generates heat rather than light.

The lumens/watt data I've seen doesn't bear this out for Luxeons, at least
in the 3-5W range; the only way you get high efficiency is to go for HID.

--
to email me, run my email address through /usr/bin/caesar
(or rotate by -4)

Dave Stallard said:

Does anybody have any thoughts/recommendations on LED headlights? I'm not
talking about the blinkers, I'm talking about something that
throws out a beam you can see by. These new LED lights seem to have
come along while I was not paying attention 😉, and can run for hours
on a small set of batteries, because they convert most of the power
to light, rather than heat. But can they throw a beam?

This mostly would be for bikepath use, so I can see the path 20 ft or
so ahead of me.

Helmet mounts are good because I also use them for rollerblading, but
for cycling I think I would prefer a bar mounted unit.

Dave

The Pyramid 5-LED light that takes 4 AAAs is pretty decent. It works quite
well as a household flashlight when the power goes out (thanks Jeanne and
Charley)
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

[email hidden] (Chalo) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

If you would require, say, a 6W incandescent light to feel adequately
illuminated, a 1W LED light will not do the job. You will need more
than one. I think it's fair to say that any 1W LED headlight will
outperform any self-contained incendescent with a handlebar mount, but
will be outperformed by any incendescent system with a remote-mounted
battery.

.... if one is constructing one's own system, is it better to use:

6x1W
2x3W
1x5W, 1x1W

--
to email me, run my email address through /usr/bin/caesar
(or rotate by -4)

Dave Stallard said:

Does anybody have any thoughts/recommendations on LED headlights? I'm
not talking about the blinkers, I'm talking about something that throws
out a beam you can see by. These new LED lights seem to have come
along while I was not paying attention 😉, and can run for hours on a
small set of batteries, because they convert most of the power to light,
rather than heat. But can they throw a beam?

This mostly would be for bikepath use, so I can see the path 20 ft or so
ahead of me.

If you are trying to see in other than completely darkened
surroundings, do not consider any of the lights that employ 5mm white
LEDs (the ones that are the same size and shape as red LEDs). They
are way too dim and too strangely-colored to help you much.

Seek out high-flux LEDs like the ones specified as "1 watt" (or "3
watt" or "5 watt"😉. These are mostly Luxeon emitters by Lumileds, but
Nichia makes a comparable one called Jupiter. They are not only 10 to
20 times brighter than a single 5mm white LED, but most of them are
much whiter, and they emit light in a pattern that makes reflectors
and focusing optics effective in delivering a shaped beam.

Unfortunately, LEDs are not yet much more efficient than Krypton low
voltage bulbs-- maybe twice as efficient in their very best
applications. They do not _project_ waste heat, but they do make
waste heat, which is dumped into the LED die instead, and must be
conducted away by some sort of heat sink.

However, there are other benefits that make them /seem/ more efficient
and deliver better battery life by far, Bulbs are most efficient when
operated at the highest voltage they will withstand, and their light
output drops much faster than their power consumption below that
voltage. White LEDs actually get a bit more efficient as the voltage
drops, their light output dimming somewhat but their power consumption
even more. That means that the batteries' energy gets stretched out
further and further as their voltage falls. The light output will be
less than maximum for most of their discharge, but there will be a
useful amount of light for a much longer time than with an
incandescent light.

NiMH cells can be damaged by very deep discharges and they have a very
flat discharge curve ending in a rapid voltage drop, so if you use
them, you should not run them any longer once the light begins to dim
quickly. LEDs will suck a battery dry before they stop giving off a
useful amount of light.

If you would require, say, a 6W incandescent light to feel adequately
illuminated, a 1W LED light will not do the job. You will need more
than one. I think it's fair to say that any 1W LED headlight will
outperform any self-contained incendescent with a handlebar mount, but
will be outperformed by any incendescent system with a remote-mounted
battery.

Chalo Colina

"Dave Stallard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anybody have any thoughts/recommendations on LED headlights? I'm
not talking about the blinkers, I'm talking about something that throws
out a beam you can see by. These new LED lights seem to have come
along while I was not paying attention 😉, and can run for hours on a
small set of batteries, because they convert most of the power to light,
rather than heat. But can they throw a beam?

This mostly would be for bikepath use, so I can see the path 20 ft or so
ahead of me.

Helmet mounts are good because I also use them for rollerblading, but
for cycling I think I would prefer a bar mounted unit.

Dave

I've got a 5-LED Cateye headlight (EL-300?) that I got for $35 from REI. It
is adequate for alerting motorists to my presence, but that's about it. Part
of my commute home is up a fairly steep, unlit bikepath, which I cannot
climb fast enough to overrun the headlight beam. The road section of my
commute is on reasonably well lit, very well maintained road. The Cateye
headlight is adequate for this road, but it would not be adequate on an
unlit road or a road where I had to watch for potholes, etc.
--
mark

Dave Stallard said...

Quoted message said:

Does anybody have any thoughts/recommendations on LED headlights? I'm
not talking about the blinkers, I'm talking about something that throws
out a beam you can see by. These new LED lights seem to have come
along while I was not paying attention 😉, and can run for hours on a
small set of batteries, because they convert most of the power to light,
rather than heat. But can they throw a beam?

This mostly would be for bikepath use, so I can see the path 20 ft or so
ahead of me.

Helmet mounts are good because I also use them for rollerblading, but
for cycling I think I would prefer a bar mounted unit.

Dave

IME, LEDs are good for taillights, not much good for headlights. They
last longer than halogen lights, by far, but they just don't put out
much light.

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:00:49 GMT, "rosco"

reverse-the-following'ocsor_g'@hotmail.com said:

Quoted message said:

My problem is coming down a bikepath at night, where numerous clueless
users are not carrying any light, back or front. I'd like to be able to
see them in time to do something about it.

Isn't that the truth. I'd guess that only 10% of the folks (bicylist,
in-line skaters, runners, dog walkers, ...) I see on some bike paths at
night have any type of light.

The same problem here in Estonia... The ratio is better - perhaps,
20%-30%, but anyway it's quite annoying to constantly avoid collisions
with "the dark majority"... ;-)

Quoted message said:

I believe LEDs are more efficient than halogen type bulbs, but still much of
their energy useage generates heat rather than light.

I don't own LED light myself, but most of them I've ever seen on the
other people's bikes, haven't impressed me much. My personal solution
for night's riding - two identical Xenon-bulb headlights, mounted with
small skew - similar to the car's "Far & Near" lights.

WBR,
Artur

Chalo said:

NiMH cells can be damaged by very deep discharges and they have a very
flat discharge curve ending in a rapid voltage drop, so if you use
them, you should not run them any longer once the light begins to dim
quickly. LEDs will suck a battery dry before they stop giving off a
useful amount of light.

My impresssion is that they're damaged by _reverse_ charging, so a
single cell would be okay. The better matched multiple cells are,
the better (so they all die at once). Otherwise the stronger cells
reverse charge the weaker ones, once the weaker ones run down.
--
Ron Hardin
[email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

qtq said:

... if one is constructing one's own system, is it better to use:

6x1W
2x3W
1x5W, 1x1W

If you're using rechargeable batteries, I'd say go with multiple
lights (and power sources) so they don't all die (quickly) at once.
--
Ron Hardin
[email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

Dave Stallard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Does anybody have any thoughts/recommendations on LED headlights? I'm
not talking about the blinkers, I'm talking about something that throws
out a beam you can see by. These new LED lights seem to have come
along while I was not paying attention 😉, and can run for hours on a
small set of batteries, because they convert most of the power to light,
rather than heat. But can they throw a beam?

This mostly would be for bikepath use, so I can see the path 20 ft or so
ahead of me.

Helmet mounts are good because I also use them for rollerblading, but
for cycling I think I would prefer a bar mounted unit.

Dave

**********************************

I'd HIGHLY recommend a Cateye EL-500.

Lewis.

**********************

stallard->Does anybody have any thoughts/recommendations on LED headlights?

I have an EL-500, from Cateye. Nice 'emergency' light and probably OK on a
dark, no street light street, but I think it is best at being seen by others,
rather than really light up the night.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Dave Stallard said:

Does anybody have any thoughts/recommendations on LED headlights? I'm
not talking about the blinkers, I'm talking about something that throws
out a beam you can see by. These new LED lights seem to have come
along while I was not paying attention 😉, and can run for hours on a
small set of batteries, because they convert most of the power to light,
rather than heat. But can they throw a beam?

This mostly would be for bikepath use, so I can see the path 20 ft or so
ahead of me.

Helmet mounts are good because I also use them for rollerblading, but
for cycling I think I would prefer a bar mounted unit.

Dave, I have an LED blinky pointed slightly to the left (right side
driving over here like the USA) so its basically in the oncoming
driver's face. Foreward, I have a triple C-cell standard bulb bike
light which throws a pretty good beam. I tried the blinky in
non-blink mode for the main light and it just didn't cut it.
Michael J. Klein [email hidden]
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

qtq said:

[re:Luxeon LEDs]

Quoted message said:

... if one is constructing one's own system, is it better to use:

6x1W
2x3W
1x5W, 1x1W

That depends on what you are trying to do. If size is an issue, one
or two emitters will be better than multiples, each of which will
require its own reflector or optic. If you want to minimize
complexity, a pair of 3W Luxeons is probably optimum, those being
generally cheaper and much longer-lasting than one 5W Luxeon. Using
two emitters instead of just one allows you more beam pattern options,
as well as the option to have a high/low beam configuration.

The power numbers are vernacular and are approximate; Lumileds calls
them Luxeon, Luxeon III, and Luxeon V. A "one watt" Luxeon consumes
about 1.2 to 1.3 watts when driven at specified current. A "three
watt" Luxeon burns 2.5 to 3.8 watts at specified current, depending
mostly on whther you choose to drive it at 700mA or 1000mA since
Lumileds approves it for both power settings. A "five watt" Luxeon is
just four one-watt chips in a single LED package-- as a result it runs
hot, and has a short lifespan at its rated output. The 5W kind use a
much higher forward voltage than the other two, which can make for a
less appealing package when you include batteries.

The 3W units vary less than the 1W kind, generally having better color
in my experience. All of them tend to have much better color than 5mm
white LEDs.

Chalo Colina

I agree! At 4:30 am one cold DEC morning, I was finding my way in to
work by the light of my CatBrain EL-200. It seems this street changed
widths every block. When a garbage truck pulled out of a side street
and blasted me with its headlights, I could no longer see the street.
When the street narrowed, I clipped the unseen curb. This resulted in
cracked ribs, a bruised hip, and a slight concussion (with a shattered
helmet). Bike is fine...

Zog The Undeniable said:

Dave Stallard said:

Does anybody have any thoughts/recommendations on LED headlights?
I'm not talking about the blinkers, I'm talking about something that
throws out a beam you can see by. These new LED lights seem to have
come along while I was not paying attention 😉, and can run for hours
on a small set of batteries, because they convert most of the power to
light, rather than heat. But can they throw a beam?

This mostly would be for bikepath use, so I can see the path 20 ft or
so ahead of me.

I bought a Cateye HL-EL200 as a light to clip onto any of my three
"unlit" bikes (the other has a dynamo setup) if I need to ride at dusk.
It's pretty good for being seen but next to useless for seeing by.
There is a real beam but it's about half as bright as a halogen lamp
taking the same 4 AA batteries, and the blue colour of the LED doesn't
help at all.