Any Raw-Fooders here?

Hi, John C here,

Raw nearly 7 years, about 4 of them 100% raw. Eating cooked
food and condiments is no good!

I tend to eat mono, mostly fruit, sometimes nuts and big
salads and often veg juices.

Issues so far include metabolic B12 deficiency (without any
symptoms), and vitamin D deficiency. Bith treated with
supplements as per required for cooked vegan diet.

It's natural to enjoy sweet foods, stick to mangoes, ripe
bananas and such like, take the supplements, no problems.

J

"Veg Love" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

X-No-archive: yes

Hey all, looking to chat with any raw fooders ...

There is a raw fooders' mailing list, sign up at:
rawtimes.comrawlife.htmlOpen ↗

Laurie

"John Coleman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:y%hfc.16714$4N3.9115@newsfe1-win...

Quoted message said:

Hi, John C here,

Raw nearly 7 years, about 4 of them 100% raw. Eating
cooked food and condiments is no good!

I tend to eat mono, mostly fruit, sometimes nuts and big
salads and often veg juices.

Issues so far include metabolic B12 deficiency (without
any symptoms), and vitamin D deficiency. Bith treated with
supplements as per required for cooked vegan diet.

It's natural to enjoy sweet foods, stick to mangoes, ripe
bananas and such like, take the supplements, no problems.

I noticed you said that you had a deficiency with no
symptoms. Can I assume through this that you are under the
guidance of a doctor? If so, do you think that he or she
will detect other deficiencies that may creep up, whether or
not you can?

-Rubystars

John Coleman said:

Raw nearly 7 years, about 4 of them 100% raw. Eating
cooked food and condiments is no good!

Why not?

Quoted message said:

I tend to eat mono, mostly fruit, sometimes nuts and big
salads and often veg juices.

Issues so far include metabolic B12 deficiency

That happens when you intentionally malnourish yourself.

Quoted message said:

(without any symptoms),

By "any symptoms" do you mean only those which are
manifestly observable thus far? The presence of manifestly
observable myelin/axon damage isn't a symptom, it's the
presence of disease. B-12 deficiency in and of itself is a
symptom. Keep playing Russian roulette with your food and
you'll find out what disease it's a symptom of.

Quoted message said:

and vitamin D deficiency.

Another sign of poor health.

Quoted message said:

Bith treated with supplements as per required for cooked
vegan diet.

Why is being "vegan" more important to you than being
"healthy"?

Quoted message said:

It's natural to enjoy sweet foods,

Many people also naturally enjoy meat, eggs, and dairy.
A little bit of some of those and your deficiencies
will diminish.

Quoted message said:

stick to mangoes, ripe bananas and such like, take the
supplements, no problems.

Why not get the vitamins you need as they naturally occur in
foods instead of artificially from pills?

John Coleman said:

It's natural to enjoy sweet foods, stick to mangoes, ripe
bananas and such like, [...]

I think I'm unnatural, in that case 🙂 I really don't like
sweet things very much at all. Bananas are OK. I'd rather
eat savoury stuff.

Kake

X-No-archive: yes

Hi John, thanks for the reply. Iused to follow the mainly
fruit path but found I was spaced out most of the time and
had tons of cravings and super mood and energy swings. What
seems to really work well is fruit alternating with veggies
(I do follow food combining rules or else I get indigestion,
gas and bloating) and when I eat veggies it is usually a
very diverse sald with flax oil and dulse along with a large
glass of green vegetable juice. The sweet fruits like
mangoes, papayas, pineapples and bananas almost always
unbalance me and make my head foggy unless eaten in very
very small quantities. Grapes on the other hand are a true
super food and seem to do me well almost any time. When I
have a day where I lean more on fruit and skip my vegetable
juice and salad only once I find it hard to make a comeback
and find my balance until I do.

Do you eat any soaked nuts or grains at all?

What kinds of greens do you eat when you have your salads
and juices?

"John Coleman" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:y%hfc.16714$4N3.9115@newsfe1-win...

Quoted message said:

Hi, John C here,

Raw nearly 7 years, about 4 of them 100% raw. Eating
cooked food and condiments is no good!

I tend to eat mono, mostly fruit, sometimes nuts and big
salads and often veg juices.

Issues so far include metabolic B12 deficiency (without
any symptoms), and vitamin D deficiency. Bith treated with
supplements as per required for cooked vegan diet.

It's natural to enjoy sweet foods, stick to mangoes, ripe
bananas and such like, take the supplements, no problems.

J

Cabbage [for usual suspect] is the chinese word for
vegetable. Cauliflower is also cuciferous ( mustard family
i.e. jesus' parable). Those two ought to provide your B's
and more. As far as proteins go, tomato or eggplant as well.

Four vegetables -how many do you think were meant for us
i.e. before the forbiden fruit. It only stands to reason
that there were few as we were few.

Anyway, never felt better, don't stink and all doorknobs
feel greasy -ick. Fruit gets me drunk now.

personalhealthzone.comvegetOpen ↗
ables/cabbage.html.

how about this.. Humans' delicate "paws" did not evolve
through tool use - it was the gentle cabbage picking as we
didn't kill the plants to begin with...leaves were not
invented for use as toilet paper either.

Hope this muse is amusing. Evolution has to at least appear
obvious, somewhat.

Veg Love said:

[...] when I eat veggies it is usually a very diverse sald
with flax oil and dulse along with a large glass of green
vegetable juice.

Yes! Seaweeds are very very nice in salad. What other
things do you put in? Grated raw turnip is surprisingly
nice. Avocado is a good addition, of course, and soaked
almonds - both of those also make a good dressing, if you
grind the almonds.

Kake

Quoted message said:

Why not?

Have a look at all the totally screwed up human species. I
don't need to hide the flavour of The Food I eat with toxic
drugs a.k.a "condiments" because I actually do like _food_ -
so no need for disguises or a bad drug habit.

Quoted message said:

That happens when you intentionally malnourish yourself.

It was not intentional, it was experimental - seems you can
read peoples minds via email?? Do you read palms as well?

Quoted message said:

By "any symptoms" do you mean only those which are
manifestly observable

thus

Quoted message said:

far? The presence of manifestly observable myelin/axon
damage isn't a

symptom,

Well it is according to p.43 of "Thorsons Complete Guide to
Vitamins and Minerals". It lists "symptoms" as 1) smooth,
sore tongue 2) Nerve degeneration causing tremors,
psychosis, mental deterioraion 3) menstrual disorders 4)
hand pigmentation 5) typical symptoms of anaemia

Quoted message said:

it's the presence of disease.

Symptom is just another word for "sign" right? I had no
signs of disease. I hope that is not too hard for you to
understand.

Quoted message said:

Keep playing Russian roulette with your food and you'll
find out what

disease

Quoted message said:

it's a symptom of.

So you can determine my nutritional status by email and
think you can predict the future! I had my diet checked over
5 years ago by a nutritionist. Is was fine, however usual
thing of vitamin B12 and D suggested for supplement. I have
had 2 medicals since I went raw, both very positive - these
included MRI scans, cardio assessments and blood chemistry.
Urine MMA was poor, not unexpected.

Unfortunately since all the other human experiments with
diet seem to indicate a horrible failure, one is forced to
experiment and look for something better.

Quoted message said:

Another sign of poor health.

No a sign of lack of sunshine, and no there was no "ill
health" - I have felt very well all along.

Quoted message said:

Why is being "vegan" more important to you than being
"healthy"?

You really do think you can read minds? Being raw vegan is
being healthy, at least if you can plan the diet well and
avoid deficiency. If you look at the wide variety of human
cultures and their bizarre and totally unnatural eating
behaviours you always get the same result, they are all
sick, and so fairly uniformly invent irrational medical
systems, magic/witchcraft, toxic medical drugs, herbology
etc. So it seems a 100% failure rate. The other species eat
all their food raw, and seem not to get rampant chronic
degenerative diseases or even those common human "minor
ailments".

Quoted message said:

Many people also naturally enjoy meat, eggs, and dairy.

What is natural about humans eating that crud? Why are these
supposed "foods" always condimented if they are so
enjoyable? My Mum was something of an expert in her attempts
to disguise meat and fish. With eggs I used to plaster them
with salt and pepper because of the nasty falvour, and I
hated the texture as well.

Quoted message said:

A little bit of some of those and your deficiencies will
diminish.

Meat, eggs and dairy will not get you the vitamin D you
need, although dairy might do a reasonable job of improving
B12, meat may not. I've always detested animal products,
even since I was about 7. I am lactose intollerant, strange
you didn't devine that through your modem? Eggs make my
[censored] stink, the guy at work next to me eats boiled eggs all
the time, I gag if he lets one off. The only animal product
I really "enjoyed" was cheese, but then since dairy is
loaded with opioids, and cheese with salt, hardly
surprising it can hit the spot. Of course, it never went
down too well and resulted in constipation and I think also
seems to promote [censored] cheese and foot cheese, something I
found seems to be caused by consuming concentrated
proteins, along with bad BO.

Quoted message said:

Why not get the vitamins you need as they naturally occur
in foods instead

of

Quoted message said:

artificially from pills?

I agree with this in principle, but the things you suggest
are not natural for humans. I use a B12 solution, not a
pill, and sometimes likewise for vitamin D tho my regular
dose is 3-4 of Freedas pills.

I do what I do because the results are better. I gave up
doing irrational dogma and tradition years ago in favour of
an experimental/experiential approach. I didn't expect it to
be perfect, but it beats cooked food eating hands down
TOTALLY. The whole cooked food/human phenomena is part of
the fake destructive humanity, there is no evidence it is
healthy or necessary to eat cooked food or animal products -
what you get with that, is a species of ugly sick and
destructive cretins.

Regurgitating a little textbook nutritional dogma is not a
cookie cutter to understanding real health.

John C

Quoted message said:

I think I'm unnatural, in that case 🙂 I really don't like
sweet things very much at all. Bananas are OK. I'd rather
eat savoury stuff.

Kake

If you use a of of salt it changes your perceptions of
taste, particulalry of sweet things, and this can make
eating more naturally very difficult.

John C

soapless said:

Cabbage [for usual suspect] is the chinese word for
vegetable.

Etymology: Middle English caboche, from Old North
French, head www.m-w.com

Quoted message said:

Cauliflower is also cuciferous ( mustard family i.e.
jesus' parable). Those two ought to provide your B's
and more.

USDA NUTRIENT BASE (per 100 grams)

Cauliflower: Thiamin Mg : 0.057 3.8% 5.2% Riboflavin Mg :
0.063 3.7% 4.8% Niacin Mg : 0.526 2.8% 3.5% Vitamin B6 Mg :
0.222 11.1% 13.9% Folacin Mcg : 57.000 28.5% 31.7% Vitamin
B12 Mcg : 0.000 0.0% 0.0%

Cabbage: Thiamin Mg : 0.050 3.3% 4.5% Riboflavin Mg : 0.040
2.4% 3.1% Niacin Mg : 0.300 1.6% 2.0% Vitamin B6 Mg : 0.096
4.8% 6.0% Folacin Mcg : 43.000 21.5% 23.9% Vitamin B12 Mcg :
0.000 0.0% 0.0%

Aside from folates, what were you saying? Hehe.

Quoted message said:

As far as proteins go, tomato or eggplant as well.

Tomato Protein Gms : 0.850 1.3% 1.7%

Eggplant Protein Gms : 1.020 1.6% 2.0%

Both per 100 grams raw. IOW, one would have to eat about 20
pounds of both or either per day to get sufficient protein.
That doesn't take into account that eggplant is limited in
methionine and cystine and tomato in histidine, all of which
are essential amino acids.

Quoted message said:

Four vegetables -how many do you think were meant for us
i.e. before the forbiden fruit. It only stands to reason
that there were few as we were few.

It's ironic that you're staking your appeal on religion.
Those of us who favor science can see that eating 20 pounds
of tomatoes and eggplant per day is not a feasible option.
Most people eat between 3-4.5 pounds of food per day.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, never felt better, don't stink and all doorknobs
feel greasy

I know meat eaters. They don't stink; they bathe daily.
Their doorknobs don't feel greasy; they keep their
houses clean.

Quoted message said:

-ick. Fruit gets me drunk now.

That explains your unintelligible post.

Quoted message said:

personalhealthzone.comvegOpen ↗
etables/cabbage.html.

how about this.. Humans' delicate "paws" did not evolve
through tool use - it was the gentle cabbage picking as we
didn't kill the plants to begin with...

Non sequitur. Evolution -- or rather, natural selection --
doesn't really take technology into account. Technology
allows us to skip time-consuming processes of natural
selection. The evolution of our "delicate paws" has a bit to
do with diet, but a lot more to do with sense of touch, the
way we walk upright, and our use of tools: A comparison of
modern human hands with those of non-human primates reveals
features unique to humans. Functional analyses of these
unique features have shown that they are consistent with the
stresses and requirements for joint movements associated
with effective use of hand-held paleolithic stone tools.
Hominid fossil hands from the Pliocene and Pleistocene
provide some evidence of the sequence in which these
features evolved. Structural adjustments to bipedal posture
in the earliest hominids may have been an important
correlate to developments in the hand, facilitating the use
of the trunk as leverage in accelerating the hand during tool-
use. massey.ac.nzhand.htmOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

leaves were not invented for use as toilet paper either.

Ipse dixit. Here we go with another loon's testimonial about
lack of personal hygiene.

Quoted message said:

Hope this muse is amusing.

Not very. You're not among the more clever raw-faddist
kooks, so it wasn't even interesting.

Quoted message said:

Evolution has to at least appear obvious, somewhat.

WTF are you rambling about? You apparently haven't read what
scientists and anthropologists have to say about the
evolution of the hand.

I've never tried turips raw, never liked them cooked but I
guess they might taste better in thier natural state. I love
Jicama when I'm craving starchy foods, either by itself or
cubed in a salad. I almost always have about a
1/2 cup of sprouted lentils (five days old, with green
leaves), they are my favorite sprout and really help make
a salad satisfying. I would have to say next to Jicama my
favorite vegetables are asparagus (the fresher and thicker
the better), romaine hearts, cabbage and celery hearts.
Some of my other favorites are snap & snow peas (fresh
from the garden are to die for!) green & yellow beans, raw
corn on the cobb (not too much at a time, too much
sweetness ruins the salad) parsley, dill (incredible
flavor enhancer) cauliflower, dandelion (if not in my
salad always in my juice) methi, chayote, water
cress.....vegetables rock!

"Kate Pugh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Veg Love said:

[...] when I eat veggies it is usually a very diverse
sald with flax oil and dulse along with a large glass of
green vegetable juice.

Yes! Seaweeds are very very nice in salad. What other
things do you put in? Grated raw turnip is surprisingly
nice. Avocado is a good addition, of course, and soaked
almonds - both of those also make a good dressing, if you
grind the almonds.

Kake

John Coleman said:

Quoted message said:

Why not?

Have a look at all the totally screwed up human species.

Do you mean you personally?

Quoted message said:

I don't need to hide the flavour of The Food I eat with
toxic drugs a.k.a "condiments" because I actually do like
_food_ - so no need for disguises or a bad drug habit.

Too bad you prefer to hide the "flavor" of the thread by
oversnipping the context.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That happens when you intentionally malnourish yourself.

It was not intentional, it was experimental -

An UNINTENTIONAL experiment, Mr Coleman? Experiments are by
definition intentional.

Quoted message said:

seems you can read peoples minds via email??

Seems I know what certain words mean. Maybe I can help you.

Quoted message said:

Do you read palms as well?

I don't go for pseudoscience or quackery. Sounds like you
do, though.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

By "any symptoms" do you mean only those which are
manifestly observable

thus

Quoted message said:

far? The presence of manifestly observable myelin/axon
damage isn't a

symptom,

Well it is according to p.43 of "Thorsons Complete Guide
to Vitamins and Minerals".

Bet I won't find THAT one in my doctor's library.

Quoted message said:

It lists "symptoms" as 1) smooth, sore tongue 2) Nerve
degeneration causing tremors, psychosis, mental
deterioraion 3) menstrual disorders 4) hand pigmentation
5) typical symptoms of anaemia

Give it some time, Coleman, and you'll shake like
Janet Reno.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it's the presence of disease.

Symptom is just another word for "sign" right? I had no
signs of disease. I hope that is not too hard for you to
understand.

I'm not the malnourished one in this discussion. You are.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Keep playing Russian roulette with your food and you'll
find out what

disease

Quoted message said:

it's a symptom of.

So you can determine my nutritional status by email

I didn't say I could do that, but I understand enough about
nutrition to know what happens over time as one is
malnourished.

Quoted message said:

and think you can predict the future!

Stop with the strawmen.

Quoted message said:

I had my diet checked over 5 years ago by a nutritionist.

Five years is a long time, particularly when one is
intentionally (or "experimentally" -- but
*unintentionally*?!) malnourishing oneself. Go for new
tests to get a more recent snapshot of what you're doing
to yourself.

Quoted message said:

Is was fine,

B12 and vitamin D deficiencies aren't "fine." Nor are
they "usual."

Quoted message said:

however usual thing of vitamin B12 and D suggested for
supplement. I have had 2 medicals since I went raw, both
very positive - these included MRI scans, cardio
assessments and blood chemistry.

"Very positive" would mean no deficiencies.

Quoted message said:

Urine MMA was poor, not unexpected.

So you DO have B12 deficiency. "Poor" isn't "very positive"
nor "fine" nor "usual." You nitwit.

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately since all the other human experiments with
diet seem to indicate a horrible failure, one is forced to
experiment and look for something better.

A balanced diet wouldn't cause you to fail MMA. A lack of
B12 would.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Another sign of poor health.

No a sign of lack of sunshine, and no there was no "ill
health" - I have felt very well all along.

Consider yourself lucky then.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why is being "vegan" more important to you than being
"healthy"?

You really do think you can read minds?

Strawman.

Quoted message said:

Being raw vegan is being healthy,

Ipse dixit. It's a fad diet based on pseudoscience and the
irrational.

Quoted message said:

at least if you can plan the diet well and avoid
deficiency.

Doesn't sound like you're succeeding.

Quoted message said:

If you look at the wide variety of human cultures and
their bizarre and totally unnatural eating behaviours you
always get the same result, they are all sick,

Ipse dixit. I don't know any triathletes on 100% raw diets.
I do know some who are vegetarian, some who are omnivore.
They're not sick.

Quoted message said:

and so fairly uniformly invent irrational medical systems,
magic/witchcraft, toxic medical drugs, herbology etc. So
it seems a 100% failure rate.

Were you depressed before you started this raw fad, or did
you become more depressed afterward? Or both?

Quoted message said:

The other species

...aren't human. They vary according to physiology and
anatomy.

Quoted message said:

eat all their food raw, and seem not to get rampant
chronic degenerative diseases

No, they get eaten by predators.

Quoted message said:

or even those common human "minor ailments".

Ipse dixit. Animals get colds, bird flu (it was in the news;
surely you heard about it), etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Many people also naturally enjoy meat, eggs, and dairy.

What is natural about humans eating that crud?

It's food, not crud.

Quoted message said:

Why are these supposed "foods" always condimented if they
are so enjoyable?

I don't know that they're "always condimented." FWIW,
most people I know who eat raw foods (including salads)
prepare condiments for them. The idea of plain lettuce
isn't as appealing as some lettuce with olive oil and
balsamic vinegar.

Quoted message said:

My Mum was something of an expert in her attempts to
disguise meat and fish.

Most of my friends who eat meat (and fish) don't like the
flavor disguised.

Quoted message said:

With eggs I used to plaster them with salt and pepper
because of the nasty falvour,

Not everyone shares your tastes, but most people use salt
and/or pepper out of familiarity -- not to cover tastes.

Quoted message said:

and I hated the texture as well.

So? Most people don't -- nor do the critters you think
you're emulating. Our closest primate cousins eat eggs, they
eat them raw, and they eat them without salt. Perhaps you
can give it a try, monkey boy.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A little bit of some of those and your deficiencies will
diminish.

Meat, eggs and dairy will not get you the vitamin D
you need,

Dairy will, especially if it's fortified (and most of ours
is).

Quoted message said:

although dairy might do a reasonable job of improving B12,
meat may not.

Meat will. Go review the nutrient data for various cuts at
the USDA nutrient base.

Quoted message said:

I've always detested animal products, even since I was
about 7.

So?

Quoted message said:

I am lactose intollerant,

Sure you are.

Quoted message said:

strange you didn't devine that through your modem?

FU.

Quoted message said:

Eggs make my [censored] stink,

Your [censored] already stinks, fool.

Quoted message said:

the guy at work next to me eats boiled eggs all the time,
I gag if he lets one off.

I hope he ate some eggs with beans and toast tonight. How
long can you hold your breath?

Quoted message said:

The only animal product I really "enjoyed" was cheese, but
then since dairy is loaded with opioids,

Not enough to get a buzz.

Quoted message said:

and cheese with salt, hardly surprising it can hit the
spot. Of course, it never went down too well and resulted
in constipation

Don't eat so much, or eat it with something higher in
fiber, dummy.

Quoted message said:

and I think also seems to promote [censored] cheese and
foot cheese,

I think fungal infections seem to have more to do with
poor hygiene. Try a good scrubbing and your [censored] and feet
won't smell.

Quoted message said:

something I found seems to be caused by consuming
concentrated proteins, along with bad BO.

*You* found this? When? Perhaps you should've tried bathing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why not get the vitamins you need as they naturally occur
in foods instead

of

Quoted message said:

artificially from pills?

I agree with this in principle,

Haha. No you don't.

Quoted message said:

...The whole cooked food/human phenomena is part of the
fake destructive humanity,

No, it isn't. Your "experimental" [censored], though, is fake
and destructive. Look at your own medical tests to prove it.

Quoted message said:

there is no evidence it is healthy or necessary to eat
cooked food or animal products -

Quoted message said:

what you get with that, is a species of ugly sick and
destructive cretins.

...who fail MMA tests and have to take B12
pills/solution, etc.

Quoted message said:

Regurgitating a little textbook nutritional dogma is not a
cookie cutter to understanding real health.

No, but failing your medical tests repeatedly kinda debunks
your initial thesis whether you still feel okay or not.

You seem to be a very explicitly unhappy person. go away
usual suspect - can't stand your own camp, can you?.

Eat as many pounds of whatever you see fit, I'm healthy-
don't tell me what to eat.

Greasy doorknobs - that's what's at your house - clean your
keyboard often.

Are you promoting soap, criticism or are you just miserable
and would like to spread your intolerance throughout the
loving globe that you enhance with your very stench?

Why not try to convince meatarians to eat more meat?

I'm sure they wouldn't joke about eating your sickly flesh,
but they sure smack their lips about my free range grain fed
corpuscles.

usual suspect <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

soapless said:

Cabbage [for usual suspect] is the chinese word for
vegetable.

Etymology: Middle English caboche, from Old North
French, head www.m-w.com

Quoted message said:

Cauliflower is also cuciferous ( mustard family i.e.
jesus' parable). Those two ought to provide your B's
and more.

USDA NUTRIENT BASE (per 100 grams)

Cauliflower: Thiamin Mg : 0.057 3.8% 5.2% Riboflavin Mg :
0.063 3.7% 4.8% Niacin Mg : 0.526 2.8% 3.5% Vitamin B6 Mg
: 0.222 11.1% 13.9% Folacin Mcg : 57.000 28.5% 31.7%
Vitamin B12 Mcg : 0.000 0.0% 0.0%

Cabbage: Thiamin Mg : 0.050 3.3% 4.5% Riboflavin Mg :
0.040 2.4% 3.1% Niacin Mg : 0.300 1.6% 2.0% Vitamin B6 Mg
: 0.096 4.8% 6.0% Folacin Mcg : 43.000 21.5% 23.9% Vitamin
B12 Mcg : 0.000 0.0% 0.0%

Aside from folates, what were you saying? Hehe.

Quoted message said:

As far as proteins go, tomato or eggplant as well.

Tomato Protein Gms : 0.850 1.3% 1.7%

Eggplant Protein Gms : 1.020 1.6% 2.0%

Both per 100 grams raw. IOW, one would have to eat about
20 pounds of both or either per day to get sufficient
protein. That doesn't take into account that eggplant is
limited in methionine and cystine and tomato in histidine,
all of which are essential amino acids.

Quoted message said:

Four vegetables -how many do you think were meant for us
i.e. before the forbiden fruit. It only stands to reason
that there were few as we were few.

It's ironic that you're staking your appeal on religion.
Those of us who favor science can see that eating 20
pounds of tomatoes and eggplant per day is not a
feasible option. Most people eat between 3-4.5 pounds of
food per day.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, never felt better, don't stink and all doorknobs
feel greasy

I know meat eaters. They don't stink; they bathe daily.
Their doorknobs don't feel greasy; they keep their
houses clean.

Quoted message said:

-ick. Fruit gets me drunk now.

That explains your unintelligible post.

Quoted message said:

personalhealthzone.comvOpen ↗
egetables/cabbage.html.

how about this.. Humans' delicate "paws" did not evolve
through tool use - it was the gentle cabbage picking as
we didn't kill the plants to begin with...

Non sequitur. Evolution -- or rather, natural selection --
doesn't really take technology into account. Technology
allows us to skip time-consuming processes of natural
selection. The evolution of our "delicate paws" has a bit
to do with diet, but a lot more to do with sense of touch,
the way we walk upright, and our use of tools: A
comparison of modern human hands with those of non-human
primates reveals features unique to humans. Functional
analyses of these unique features have shown that they are
consistent with the stresses and requirements for joint
movements associated with effective use of hand-held
paleolithic stone tools. Hominid fossil hands from the
Pliocene and Pleistocene provide some evidence of the
sequence in which these features evolved. Structural
adjustments to bipedal posture in the earliest hominids
may have been an important correlate to developments in
the hand, facilitating the use of the trunk as leverage in
accelerating the hand during tool-use.
massey.ac.nzhand.htmOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

leaves were not invented for use as toilet paper either.

Ipse dixit. Here we go with another loon's testimonial
about lack of personal hygiene.

Quoted message said:

Hope this muse is amusing.

Not very. You're not among the more clever raw-faddist
kooks, so it wasn't even interesting.

Quoted message said:

Evolution has to at least appear obvious, somewhat.

WTF are you rambling about? You apparently haven't read
what scientists and anthropologists have to say about the
evolution of the hand.

you are so far off on protein it's not worth engaging you in
debate on any topic you dreamed I was adressing.

As far as evolution of the hand goes, primates masturbate
in dire times -look around . If you know everything so
well, why do you read these posts? You ceratinly aim not
to enlighten but to belittle.. it's a good thing the cut
and paste function keeps those of yours hands busy, lest
they mutate into something you can't sit on as you
should, gramps.

usual suspect <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

soapless said:

Cabbage [for usual suspect] is the chinese word for
vegetable.

Etymology: Middle English caboche, from Old North
French, head www.m-w.com

Quoted message said:

Cauliflower is also cuciferous ( mustard family i.e.
jesus' parable). Those two ought to provide your B's
and more.

USDA NUTRIENT BASE (per 100 grams)

Cauliflower: Thiamin Mg : 0.057 3.8% 5.2% Riboflavin Mg :
0.063 3.7% 4.8% Niacin Mg : 0.526 2.8% 3.5% Vitamin B6 Mg
: 0.222 11.1% 13.9% Folacin Mcg : 57.000 28.5% 31.7%
Vitamin B12 Mcg : 0.000 0.0% 0.0%

Cabbage: Thiamin Mg : 0.050 3.3% 4.5% Riboflavin Mg :
0.040 2.4% 3.1% Niacin Mg : 0.300 1.6% 2.0% Vitamin B6 Mg
: 0.096 4.8% 6.0% Folacin Mcg : 43.000 21.5% 23.9% Vitamin
B12 Mcg : 0.000 0.0% 0.0%

Aside from folates, what were you saying? Hehe.

Quoted message said:

As far as proteins go, tomato or eggplant as well.

Tomato Protein Gms : 0.850 1.3% 1.7%

Eggplant Protein Gms : 1.020 1.6% 2.0%

Both per 100 grams raw. IOW, one would have to eat about
20 pounds of both or either per day to get sufficient
protein. That doesn't take into account that eggplant is
limited in methionine and cystine and tomato in histidine,
all of which are essential amino acids.

Quoted message said:

Four vegetables -how many do you think were meant for us
i.e. before the forbiden fruit. It only stands to reason
that there were few as we were few.

It's ironic that you're staking your appeal on religion.
Those of us who favor science can see that eating 20
pounds of tomatoes and eggplant per day is not a
feasible option. Most people eat between 3-4.5 pounds of
food per day.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, never felt better, don't stink and all doorknobs
feel greasy

I know meat eaters. They don't stink; they bathe daily.
Their doorknobs don't feel greasy; they keep their
houses clean.

Quoted message said:

-ick. Fruit gets me drunk now.

That explains your unintelligible post.

Quoted message said:

personalhealthzone.comvOpen ↗
egetables/cabbage.html.

how about this.. Humans' delicate "paws" did not evolve
through tool use - it was the gentle cabbage picking as
we didn't kill the plants to begin with...

Non sequitur. Evolution -- or rather, natural selection --
doesn't really take technology into account. Technology
allows us to skip time-consuming processes of natural
selection. The evolution of our "delicate paws" has a bit
to do with diet, but a lot more to do with sense of touch,
the way we walk upright, and our use of tools: A
comparison of modern human hands with those of non-human
primates reveals features unique to humans. Functional
analyses of these unique features have shown that they are
consistent with the stresses and requirements for joint
movements associated with effective use of hand-held
paleolithic stone tools. Hominid fossil hands from the
Pliocene and Pleistocene provide some evidence of the
sequence in which these features evolved. Structural
adjustments to bipedal posture in the earliest hominids
may have been an important correlate to developments in
the hand, facilitating the use of the trunk as leverage in
accelerating the hand during tool-use.
massey.ac.nzhand.htmOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

leaves were not invented for use as toilet paper either.

Ipse dixit. Here we go with another loon's testimonial
about lack of personal hygiene.

Quoted message said:

Hope this muse is amusing.

Not very. You're not among the more clever raw-faddist
kooks, so it wasn't even interesting.

Quoted message said:

Evolution has to at least appear obvious, somewhat.

WTF are you rambling about? You apparently haven't read
what scientists and anthropologists have to say about the
evolution of the hand.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cabbage [for usual suspect] is the chinese word for
vegetable.

This means, and i'll go slowly and laboriously discretely
for you, that in chinese, if you say the word cabbage, you
have said the word vegetable. snippage,

Oh, and I'll mention a bit 'bout vitamins, but that's it -I
don't suffer fools gladly.

Vitamins are a mere dead snapshot of the living process of
digestion - you kill enzymes by cooking , so you argue
this -fine.

When you talk vit B# you mean nicotinic acids. Any two cut
leaves pretty much gets these 'vitamins' brewing.

Shelf life of your 'vitamins'. Did earl mindell write your
bible? [a reference to earl mindell's vitamin bible].Vit E
doesn't last long, nor does D.

Vitamin U is produced when cabbage is cooked. do you not
think digestion alone produced this 'vitamin'?

Quoted message said:

Do you mean you personally?

Not particularly tho' none escapes the consequences. Rather
I refer to the 1 in 3 who die of cancer, or heart disease,
diabetes... and are purpetually ill thus supporing the
genocidal medical industry. Open your eyes a while and look
at how messed up the human animal is, it is quite without
parallel in nature.

Quoted message said:

An UNINTENTIONAL experiment, Mr Coleman? Experiments are
by definition

intentional.

although in this case the outcome was not

Quoted message said:

I don't go for pseudoscience or quackery. Sounds like you
do, though.

It's the other way around. You are unable to supply any
convincing evidence your dietary dogma can produce healthy
humans. Even your logic is flawed. The various attempts of
humans to eat cultural diets have no rational basis, and
have never in recorded history produced a healthy
population. Please don't expect me to follow a failure
record like that.

Quoted message said:

Bet I won't find THAT one in my doctor's library.

It's a high street purchase, authored by Leonard Mervyn,
B.Sc, PhD, C.Chem,
F.R.S.C

Quoted message said:

Give it some time, Coleman, and you'll shake like
Janet Reno.

Unlikely given I take B12 supplements - did you not read
what I said?

Quoted message said:

B12 and vitamin D deficiencies aren't "fine." Nor are they
"usual."

The B12 was checked after a period of supplementation, and
was satisfactory.

Quoted message said:

Consider yourself lucky then.

I know of vegans who never supplement B12, a lot have got
deficient a few have not. The picture is complex.

Quoted message said:

Ipse dixit. It's a fad diet based on pseudoscience and the
irrational.

It is based on 2 simple observations:

1) humans are herbivores (evidence provided)
2) cooked food eating is a recent evolutionary
introduction and clearly a failure - it is simply
pointless in biological terms, and destructive
unhealthy and wasteful otherwise

Quoted message said:

Ipse dixit. I don't know any triathletes on 100% raw
diets. I do know some

who

Quoted message said:

are vegetarian, some who are omnivore. They're not sick.

There are millions of creatures that live all raw, they
suffer from little to no disease at all, not even so much as
a cold, BO or bad teeth. I do know of some raw athletes,
however I am talking about normal people. Exercise promotes
detoxification and will give added resistence to unhealthy
dietary effects.

Quoted message said:

Were you depressed before you started this raw fad, or did
you become more depressed afterward? Or both?

Now who is the straw man? I simply observe that most humans
are very very
ill. Deal with that fact instead of offering more of your
daft diagnosis via email.

Quoted message said:

No, they get eaten by predators.

And what about the predators, and what about the species
that don't have predators? Do they suffer rampant epidemics
of disease as the normal condition? Other animals don't have
special health genes, they just don't mess with their diet
with culture and make themselves ill.

Quoted message said:

Ipse dixit. Animals get colds, bird flu (it was in the
news; surely you

heard

Quoted message said:

about it), etc.

Domestic animals fed cooked foods and kept confined like
humans get human disease, no surprise.

Quoted message said:

It's food, not crud.

The natural food of a species doesn't give it degenerative
disease like heart disease by crudding up its arteries.

Quoted message said:

I don't know that they're "always condimented." FWIW, most
people I know

who eat

Quoted message said:

raw foods (including salads) prepare condiments for them.
The idea of

plain

Quoted message said:

lettuce isn't as appealing as some lettuce with olive oil
and balsamic

vinegar.

Maybe lettuce isn't truly a human food, but I am quite happy
to eat a head of romaine all on its own. Maybe these folk
just never lost their bad habits?

Quoted message said:

Not everyone shares your tastes, but most people use salt
and/or pepper

out of

Quoted message said:

familiarity -- not to cover tastes.

irrespective both are toxins

Quoted message said:

salt. Perhaps you can give it a try, monkey boy.

Wild animals don't get to choose what they eat, they must
take whatever they find, ideal or not. And we are all
saddled with being primates, like it or not.

Quoted message said:

Dairy will, especially if it's fortified (and most of
ours is).

I prefer to take the vitamin supplement directly, not
plastered with choelsterol, fat and cancer promoting
proteins.

Quoted message said:

Meat will. Go review the nutrient data for various cuts at
the USDA

nutrient base.

Once highly cooked, B12 is damaged. Results of the
Framingham Heart Study found B12 status not so good for meat
eaters vs milk eaters. However a supplement almost
guarantees a much superior B12 status than commonly
achievable through animal products.

Quoted message said:

So?

So I won't go back, I am healthier without them.

Quoted message said:

Sure you are.

Yes, I never figured as a kid why milk used to make me
belch so much.

Quoted message said:

Your [censored] already stinks, fool.

Fecal analysis via modem? Actually raw vegan [censored] does not
stink on account of lack of putrefied proteins.

Quoted message said:

Not enough to get a buzz.

Again mind reading via modem. I found that cheese had a mild
calming effect, very mild but still there - I found it very
hard to quit.

Quoted message said:

Don't eat so much, or eat it with something higher in
fiber, dummy.

Better without it at all, humans don't require concentrated
calf food.

Quoted message said:

I think fungal infections seem to have more to do with
poor hygiene. Try a

good

Quoted message said:

scrubbing and your [censored] and feet won't smell.

Try not having a gut full of undigested protein stink, then
even when you don't wash you don't smell bad or get any
[censored] cheese. In fact the need to wash pretty much
disappears, as does the "need" to apply deodorants, makeup
over spots, and so forth.

Quoted message said:

No, it isn't. Your "experimental" [censored], though, is
fake and

destructive.

Quoted message said:

Look at your own medical tests to prove it.

They don't, they show borderline deficiencies, there was
never any evidence of actual illness. In fact I always felt
very good.

All of nature - please cotton on to this one simple fact.
Human, cooked = ill going towards unable to reproduce,
Nature 100% raw, somewhat healthy, 4+ billion years.

Quoted message said:

No, but failing your medical tests repeatedly kinda
debunks your initial

thesis

Quoted message said:

whether you still feel okay or not.

No it does not. I base my behaviour on what I observe
produces the best effect. What I see in the people around me
who eat the supposedly nutritionally superior omnivore or
even vegetarian diet is, they get fat, and also sick every
few weeks. I don't so, I am obviously eating a better diet.
When I ate what they ate, I got the same maladies.

John C

"soapless" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Oh, and I'll mention a bit 'bout vitamins, but that's it
-I don't suffer fools gladly.
=====================

Wow, you must truly hate yourself then, uh?

Quoted message said:

Vitamins are a mere dead snapshot of the living process of
digestion - you kill enzymes by cooking , so you argue
this -fine.

When you talk vit B# you mean nicotinic acids. Any two cut
leaves pretty much gets these 'vitamins' brewing.

Shelf life of your 'vitamins'. Did earl mindell write your
bible? [a reference to earl mindell's vitamin bible].Vit E
doesn't last long, nor does D.

Vitamin U is produced when cabbage is cooked. do you not
think digestion alone produced this 'vitamin'?