Any point to a 2003 TdF?

Quoted message said:

I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He
doesn't need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain stages.

He only does this after his team has shattered the field on the lower slopes. If you followed
previous Tours de France (which is not evident based on your statements) it would be obvious that
winning is a team effort.

Quoted message said:

My own hopes that Ulrich would beat him regularly haven't happened and aren't likely to happen,
and while it's always possible something could happen, bad accident, alien invasion, earthquake,
the odds of Lance losing, if he is in the same shape as last year are so low, they might as well
just give him the yellow jersey now and call it a day, and save everyone from three weeks of
hard labor.

Accident, illness, an early race break with a surprisingly strong underdog, untimely bonk; all of
these are possibilities that can cause Lance to lose. However, if you think the overall is the only
aspect of the race worth following, you're missing most of the race. Too bad for you.

Quoted message said:

I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point?

I think the point is to determine the winner.

Quoted message said:

He doesn't need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on
mountain stages.

Yes, after his team is done with their work.

Quoted message said:

and while it's always possible something could happen, bad accident, alien invasion, earthquake,
the odds of Lance losing, if he is in the same shape as last year are so low,

Actually, not so low. The older he gets, the more others want to take him out, the small few who
have won five TDF's, the chance of the aforementioned alien invasion, etc.

Quoted message said:

they might as well just give him the yellow jersey now and call it a day,

Well, if the actual riders have your mentality, then he very well might be invincible.

You'll be happy to know that Beloki appears to think he will have Lance's number this year. If he
can back up the talk....

--

Saving Private Ryan Online Encyclopedia sproe.comsproe.comOpen ↗

Big Mig is touting Jan to challenge Lance. velonews.com4250.0.htmlOpen ↗ Be
great to see this battle with Jan in shape to start the race. I hope Tyler can hang, and I think
he's going to. I thought this was going to be "lance goes away with the win" but this is shaping up
to be a great race. How about Hincapie coming around? Is he going to grab a stage? Bill C

looking at the stage profiles (thet're up at Cyclngnews.com and elsewghere by now..) there are no
"easy"stages.. even the first week "flat"stages aren't.. they're full of little rollers and sharp
short climbs tht should make for interesting racing... just one guys point of view.. the winds just
died so I'm of to ride.. god but I love summer daylight.. it's 700pm (2100 to some of you) and still
bright and sunny.

Quoted message said:

I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He doesn't
need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain stages. My own
hopes that Ulrich would beat him regularly haven't happened and aren't likely to happen, and
while it's always possible something could happen, bad accident, alien invasion, earthquake, the
odds of Lance losing, if he is in the same shape as last year are so low, they might as well just
give him the yellow jersey now and call it a day, and save everyone from three weeks of hard
labor. Really, I'd rather absolutely anyone in the peloton besides Lance win, but I can't imagine
that happening if he's in last year's shape. So what's the point of the race? We could hold the
sprint days as a separate event.

Its an easy course. It may be decided in the time trails.

Lance only nabbed 3rd in the Dauphine TT so who knows what might happen.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He
doesn't need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain stages.
My own hopes that Ulrich would beat him regularly haven't happened and aren't likely to happen,
and while it's always possible something could happen, bad accident, alien invasion, earthquake,
the odds of Lance losing, if he is in the same shape as last year are so low, they might as well
just give him the yellow jersey now and call it a day, and save everyone from three weeks of
hard labor. Really, I'd rather absolutely anyone in the peloton besides Lance win, but I can't
imagine that happening if he's in last year's shape. So what's the point of the race? We could
hold the sprint days as a separate event.

[email hidden] (TritonRider) wrote in message

How about

Quoted message said:

Hincapie coming around? Is he going to grab a stage? Bill C

No.

-RJ

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Quoted message said:

He only does this after his team has shattered the field on the lower slopes. If you followed
previous Tours de France (which is not evident based on your statements) it would be obvious that
winning is a team effort.

Actually, I have followed previous TdFs, and while my hat is off to Lance's team, I disagree. When
Lance can take a look at those around him on a big mountain stage, and just ride away from all his
competitors, his team, other than bringing him water, is not that significant for helping him win.
They may do a good job of making things easier for him, like patrolling the front of the peleton for
breaks, but like Indurain, he could have won before regardless of who was on his team. Again, I
think his team does a great job, and I'd really like to see Hincapie get a break after all these
years helping someone else win, but I don't think they affect the outcome all that much. You're free
to disagree of course, but I've never seen a TdF won on those little hills. They are won on big
mountain stages, where teams are left behind, and on time trials, which are not team activities.
Lance might lose if his team did nothing for him, but he has won, so far as I can tell, and will
doubtless win again, on his own.

Every year people talk about what might happen, e.g., "this other racer is looking good," or
"Lance could have an accident," or what-have-you, but it never happens, so why bother
speculating.

Ken

Quoted message said:

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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta
http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body>
<blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap=""><!----> He only does this after his team has shattered the
field on the lower slopes. If you followed previous Tours de France (which is not evident based on
your statements) it would be obvious that winning is a team effort.</pre> </blockquote> Actually, I
have followed previous TdFs, and while my hat is off to Lance's team, I disagree. When Lance
can take a look at those around him on a big mountain stage, and just ride away from all his
competitors, his team, other than bringing him water, is not that significant for helping him win.
They may do a good job of making things easier for him, like patrolling the front of the
peleton for breaks, but like Indurain, he could have won before regardless of who was on his team.
Again, I think his team does a great job, and I'd really like to see Hincapie get a break
after all these years helping someone else win, but I don't think they affect the outcome all that
much. You're free to disagree of course, but I've never seen a TdF won on those little hills.
They are won on big mountain stages, where teams are left behind, and on time trials, which
are not team activities. Lance might lose if his team did nothing for him, but he has won, so
far as I can tell, and will doubtless win again, on his own. <br> <br> Every year
people talk about what might happen, e.g., "this other racer is looking good," or "Lance could have
an accident," or what-have-you, but it never happens, so why bother speculating.<br> <br> Ken
<br> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> </pre> </blockquote> </body> </html>

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"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Big Mig is touting Jan to challenge Lance. velonews.com4250.0.htmlOpen ↗
Be great to see this battle with Jan in shape to start the race. I hope

Tyler

Quoted message said:

can hang, and I think he's going to. I thought this was going to be "lance

goes

Quoted message said:

away with the win" but this is shaping up to be a great race. How about Hincapie coming around? Is
he going to grab a stage?

On a team like USPS, the support is not allowed to go for a stage win. Indurain's Banesto was the
same. The job of everyone on both those teams is to help their leader win the GC, expending energy
on pursuing stage wins would compromise that.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He only does this after his team has shattered the field on the lower slopes. If you followed
previous Tours de France (which is not evident

based

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on your statements) it would be obvious that winning is a team effort.

Quoted message said:

Actually, I have followed previous TdFs, and while my hat is off to Lance's

team, I disagree. When Lance can take a look at those around him on a big

Quoted message said:

mountain stage, and just ride away from all his competitors, his team,

other than bringing him water, is not that significant for helping him win. They may do a >good job
of making things easier for him, like patrolling the front of the peleton for breaks, but like
Indurain, he could have won before regardless of who was >on his team.

His team is responsible for making things hard for the competition. Riding hard enough to discourage
breakaways is key to ensure that LANCE doesn't have to chase anything down. Lance's role is like a
matador. Others soften up the bull, and he steps in to inflict the killing blow. A matador _might_
be able to do the whole job on his own, but he doesn't. It's usually the first bullfighters who get
gored, while the bull is still fresh.

Quoted message said:

Every year people talk about what might happen, e.g., "this other racer is

looking good," or "Lance could have an accident," or what-have-you, but it never >happens, so why
bother speculating.

This is the whole premise behind playing the lottery, or being successful in life. Do you
immediately drop everything that you fail to succeed at the first time? "Why bother speculating" is
a strange attitude given that nothing in life is certain.

TritonRider said:

Big Mig is touting Jan to challenge Lance.
velonews.com4250.0.htmlOpen ↗ Be great to see this battle with Jan in
shape to start the race. I hope Tyler can hang, and I think he's going to. I thought this was
going to be "lance goes away with the win" but this is shaping up to be a great race. How about
Hincapie coming around? Is he going to grab a stage? Bill C

He will finish second at best.

"Lewdvig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Its an easy course. It may be decided in the time trails.

Lance only nabbed 3rd in the Dauphine TT so who knows what might happen.

get your facts right. lance got 3rd in the PROLOGUE at dauphine.

He won the TT there. Easily.

Quoted message said:

I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point?

here's a quick solution- don't watch it.

i'll watch even if it's completely certain he's going to win. i regret not seeing any of the other
big tdf winners race (too young, or not paying attention at the time). i'm just happy that i get to
personally witness him dominate the tour.

heather

Quoted message said:

I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He doesn't
need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain stages.

Obviously you do not know anything about pro bicycle racing. No one can win a 3 weeks stage race
riding as a favourite without a team. Not even Merckx could do it. Someone riding by himself would
be a victim of "trashcan" breakaways during the first week

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He
doesn't need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain
stages.

He only does this after his team has shattered the field on the lower slopes. If you followed
previous Tours de France (which is not evident

based

Quoted message said:

on your statements) it would be obvious that winning is a team effort.

This is something I don't quite get either. If Lance can accend the climbs faster than anyone else,
then what he needs to do is get to the base of the climbs with the leading group. He doesn't need to
cover attacks, as long as he finishes the climb as fast as he can. And if he finishes with a pack of
riders, then he still wins with the ITT. That's the beauty of races with tough climbs: tactics lose
out to the strongest climber. For example, when was the last time that a mountain-top finish was not
won by the best climber, when all the contenders were together at the base of the climb? I'm not
much of bike race historian, but there is one incident that sticks out: Lance bonking.

I think Eros Poli - the monster sized - Italian, who was not noted for being climber, won a stage in
the Alps a few years back by attacking on the flats and gaining about nine minutes before the climb
started. He figured he would need that much time to make up for his lack of climbing efficiency.

No one took him seriously for the GC - he was probably 30 minutes or more down at that point - so
they let him go.

Doubtful that a contender would get so lucky.

"Sluggo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He
doesn't need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain
stages.

He only does this after his team has shattered the field on the lower slopes. If you followed
previous Tours de France (which is not evident

based

Quoted message said:

on your statements) it would be obvious that winning is a team effort.

This is something I don't quite get either. If Lance can accend the

climbs

Quoted message said:

faster than anyone else, then what he needs to do is get to the base of

the

Quoted message said:

climbs with the leading group. He doesn't need to cover attacks, as long

as

Quoted message said:

he finishes the climb as fast as he can. And if he finishes with a pack

of

Quoted message said:

riders, then he still wins with the ITT. That's the beauty of races with tough climbs: tactics
lose out to the strongest climber. For example,

when

Quoted message said:

was the last time that a mountain-top finish was not won by the best climber, when all the
contenders were together at the base of the climb? I'm not much of bike race historian, but there
is one incident that sticks out: Lance bonking.

Quoted message said:

Obviously you do not know anything about pro bicycle racing. No one can win a 3 weeks stage race
riding as a favourite without a team.

LeMond's 1989 win with a very weak ADR team - few of whom (two others?) even finished the race -
comes very close to disproving that.

"Mapei81" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Obviously you do not know anything about pro bicycle racing. No one can win a 3 weeks stage race
riding as a favourite without a team.

LeMond's 1989 win with a very weak ADR team - few of whom (two others?)

even

Quoted message said:

finished the race - comes very close to disproving that.

In the first week of the race, Lemond was not considered a threat to win, therefore his team was not
expected to keep the race under control.

If LA's team was weak, he would be more vulnerable.

Lewdvig said:

I think Eros Poli - the monster sized - Italian, who was not noted for being climber, won a stage
in the Alps a few years back by attacking on the flats

Mont Ventoux, even. There's another story attached to it about a bet or an agreement, but I don't
remember the details. He runs a cafe in Italy now somewhere.

He said "mountain TOP" finish.

Eros Poli won the 15th stage of the 1994 Tour that went up and over the Ventoux. It finished in
Carpentras (a town in a valley).

"Lewdvig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think Eros Poli - the monster sized - Italian, who was not noted for

being

Quoted message said:

climber, won a stage in the Alps a few years back by attacking on the

flats

Quoted message said:

and gaining about nine minutes before the climb started. He figured he

would

Quoted message said:

need that much time to make up for his lack of climbing efficiency.

No one took him seriously for the GC - he was probably 30 minutes or more down at that point - so
they let him go.

Doubtful that a contender would get so lucky.

"Sluggo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He
> doesn't need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain
> stages.

He only does this after his team has shattered the field on the lower slopes. If you followed
previous Tours de France (which is not evident

based

Quoted message said:

on your statements) it would be obvious that winning is a team effort.

This is something I don't quite get either. If Lance can accend the

climbs

Quoted message said:

faster than anyone else, then what he needs to do is get to the base of

the

Quoted message said:

climbs with the leading group. He doesn't need to cover attacks, as

long

Quoted message said:

as

Quoted message said:

he finishes the climb as fast as he can. And if he finishes with a pack

of

Quoted message said:

riders, then he still wins with the ITT. That's the beauty of races

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

tough climbs: tactics lose out to the strongest climber. For example,

when

Quoted message said:

was the last time that a mountain-top finish was not won by the best climber, when all the
contenders were together at the base of the climb? I'm not much of bike race historian, but
there is one incident that

sticks

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

out: Lance bonking.