Any Bowflex users out there?

jasper808 said:

I had a friend give me a Bowflex recently. With the off-season approaching, I was wonderin if this thing can help me do any off-season training or is it just going to collect dust?

Collect dust. That's why he gave it to you. They don't produce results. They are fine for overweight housewives, but for athletics they are pretty much useless. Sell it on ebay and get some used free weights if you want to do any strength training that will have a functional carryover to athletics.

jasper808 said:

I had a friend give me a Bowflex recently. With the off-season approaching, I was wonderin if this thing can help me do any off-season training or is it just going to collect dust?

I use free weights at home but I do know some folks who swear by Bowflex. You can't beat the price you got. Every home gym equipment has some limitation. The problem with free weights at home is the spotter issue, and there are some exercises that I can't do with my equipment, which is basically an old Continental system bench, olympic barbell set and leg extension/curl unit. I also have an adjustable bench and a few other bars already set up for other exercises. I tend to try and compensate for the lack of a real cable pull machine with chin ups/ dips and I also like those $10 elastic tubes that come in different resistance widths (you should really see me go to town with the purple band) and can attach to a door jamb.

If someone gave me a free bowflex, I would give it a try for a few weeks and see if there are any beneficial exercises that could complement a good bench and olympic barbell set. I own and love the bowflex multi weight dumbells, much cheaper and less messy than a whole set of dumbells. I hate squatting by myself at home, and tend to go lighter than I would normally do in a gym with more reps since I basically have to lift the weight off the floor and raise it over my head to my shoulders. I would love to have a good smith rack but there are space and $$ issues.

If I had to buy a bowflex at retail, then I think I could outfit a high quality home gym cheaper starting with Olympic barbells, a good smith rack for when a spotter's not around, a good cable pull set up, perhaps a good leg extension/leg curl set up (most of them suck). But even there, there are space and time limitations that the bowflex tries to address. IMHO, most home gym units like the ones you find in hotel weight rooms suck, so does bowflex suck any more? If I need a workout, I can even get a good one in those crappy hotel weight rooms so if the choice is bowflex or nothing, it is a no brainer.

Most bowflexes collect dust for the same reason most gym memberships go unused, most bikes unridden, and most other home gyms, rowers and trainers used as clothes dryers -- it is the person not the machine. Give it a shot for a few months and let us know whether it is any good. I'd drop $200 on e-bay for a good used one, and definitely take one for free.

It has to benefit the core, I assume, but I just figured I would be better off putting an hour in on the trainer. True?

jasper808 said:

It has to benefit the core, I assume, but I just figured I would be better off putting an hour in on the trainer. True?

No, resistance exercise to brief momentary muscular failure is a key component to strength and overall fitness. Your body doesn't really know whether the resistance is "weight" or some sort of tension spring which is what a bowflex uses. Squats, stiff leg deadlifts, power cleans and ab work all build core strength, and it doesn't really matter what form of resistance you are using to get the muscles to fail briefly usually 15-20 reps for core strength. But benches, chin ups, overhead presses bent over rows, even curls have their place in any routine. All the pros, including LA have incorporated some strength training into their regular routine, and a little, particularly if it is brief and very intense, goes a long way. It also helps to prevent injury and keeps the weight off which improves power to weight ratio. Two hard weight work outs at 30-40 minutes each per week is all you need if you are cycling regularly.

The core debate is usually an offshoot of the whole machine vs. free weight debate and is probably not really important for recreational athletes. Basically, the advantages to free weights over a machine is the lack of friction over the movement, since most machines, particulalry cheap ones, have so much friction that your muscles get brief micro rest as you lift.

Most machines make a number of claimed advantages chief among them is "variable resistance" or the resistance increases where you are strongest in the movement and decreases where you are weakest. Take chinups for example, you are mechanically efficient at the beginning and end of the movement and usually fail when your arm is flexed 90 degrees. A variable resistance machine would gradually decrease tension as your arms moved from straight to 90 degrees and then increase them as you get closer to the bar. Again, a machine manufacturer would claim that chinups were less efficient than a machine because it could only work your arms to the 90 degree failure point, where the machine would provide resistance over the whole movement. Resistance is usually varied by way of a lever mechanism (i.e. universal or hammer ) or a chain and cam (nautilus and its clones). The problem is that, unlike a bike hub, the bearings, cables, and chains have so much friction that the variable resistance advantage is offset. Plus, the whole movement of a chin up works your hands and abs as a secondary effect. Free weights generally have this secondary advantages in that they tend to develop hand strength to a greater degree and some real free weight folks would say there are stabilizer muscles used in lifting a weight along its full range. Again, chin ups build tremendous hand and bicep strength, in addition to the targeted back. I have yet to use a leg press that is as taxing as barbell squats, But machines are also usually safer and easier to use and can provide resistance even where gravity would not provide it with weights.

Depending on the machine and the range of motion, you can certainly work your core provided the exercise provides resistance along the whole range of motion. If it is an either or, trainer or weight workout, you need to ride to be a better cyclist. But strength training should be part of any person interested in real fitness

kopride said:

No, resistance exercise to brief momentary muscular failure is a key component to strength and overall fitness.

Sorry, but you're off by a mile. Periodized progressive resistance over time is the key - using a greater and greater workload over time. Training to failure has absolutely nothing to do with that.

The training to failure thing was popularized by Arthur Jones of Nautilus fame and some of his followers like Mike Mentzer. Since then, 25 years of sports science has proved otherwise. No powerlifters or olympic lifters worth their salt train to failure as part of their protocol. Hopefully, not too many olympians or pro athetes train that way either.

Quoted post said:

Your body doesn't really know whether the resistance is "weight" or some sort of tension spring which is what a bowflex uses.

It depends on whether or not the trainee is interested in any functional athletic carryover. If they are they had better NOT be using a bowflex or anything else from an informercial designed to suck people in. Check out some writings by Charles Poliquin, Charles Staley, Dr. Fred Hatfield, Christian Thibaudeau or Chad Waterbury. They have trained numerous strength athletes.

For bodybuilding machines may work well, but there isn't much if any functional carryover to the real world. Bodybuilders are some of the least coordinated and pathetically out of conditioned athletes in the world (if one can even classify them as such) and they generally have terrible strength to weight ratios. There are exceptions, of course, such as Eddie Robbinson.

Quoted post said:

All the pros, including LA have incorporated some strength training into their regular routine, and a little, particularly if it is brief and very intense, goes a long way.

And I'll bet dollars for donuts that LA doesn't touch a bowflex. I'd also hope that his strength coach knows more than the HIT Jedi and doesn't train him to failure, which causes more neurological stress than muscular fatigue/microtrauma.

Quoted post said:

It also helps to prevent injury and keeps the weight off which improves power to weight ratio.

Are you referring to a bowflex here? Because there isn't anything inherent about a bowflex that will prevent injury. Bad form is bad form period. A person can injure themselves if they don't know what they are doing with any form of exercise. Also, I would dare to say that bowflex would give rise to greater injuries of repitition, such as tendonitis, because of the limited angles and variation of exercises.

Quoted post said:

The core debate is usually an offshoot of the whole machine vs. free weight debate and is probably not really important for recreational athletes.

The core debate is also oversold to non-recreational athletes. There is more to functional strength training than emphasising the core like so many personal trainers do. It's just the popular catch phrase of the time.

kopride said:

I would love to have a good smith rack but ...

Oh God! 🙄 Where's Felt_Rider? 😄

Someone call on the Bat Phone 🙂

Nothing feels better than getting crushed by a heavy squat bar 🙂

jasper808 said:

I had a friend give me a Bowflex recently. With the off-season approaching, I was wonderin if this thing can help me do any off-season training or is it just going to collect dust?

Yeah I got a bowflex and use it on the off season, to go deer hunting. 😄 ooh unless your talking about the bowflex machine which is just as useless. I think you got the answer of what people think about the bowflex on this thread. I doubt the guys on TV got that way from using the bowflex.

Has anyone confirmed this with NASM? 🙂

I have to admit that I would rate a bowflex a bit better than a stability board and an inflatable ball.

[quote="Doctor Morbius"]Sorry, but you're off by a mile. Periodized progressive resistance over time is the key - using a greater and greater workload over time. Training to failure has absolutely nothing to do with that.


Actually, it depends upon the OP's goal, but Doc correctly points out the inaccuracy of my old school terminology. Brief Muscular failure, strictly speaking, is antiquated and not used by elite athletes. Since the OP mentioned the use of a bowflex for off season training, it appears as though he is focused on enhancing athletic performance rather than the overall benefits of resistance training so I can't claim context for my error.

Below find the ACSM guidelines on resistance training:


[font=Times New Roman][left]"The American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) recommends the following resistance-training regimen for the average healthy adult who wants to achieve basic muscular fitness:


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[/font][font=Symbol][left]· [/font][font=Times New Roman]One set of eight to 12 repetitions (10-15 repetitions for older or more frail persons), performed two to three days per week, involving eight to ten exercises for all major muscle groups.


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[/font][font=Symbol][left]· [/font][font=Times New Roman]Determine the amount of resistance by choosing a weight that can be moved the desired number of times. (e.g., eight to 12 repetitions)


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[/font][font=Symbol][left]· [/font][font=Times New Roman]Always use proper technique, performing each exercise through the full range of motion in a controlled motion whilemaintaining normal breathing.


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[/font][font=Symbol][left]· [/font][font=Times New Roman]Always perform both a warm-up period before and cool-down period after the workout. Five to 10 minutes is adequate.


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[/font][font=Times-Roman][left]When greater levels of muscular strength and power are desired by the healthy adult, ACSM recommends the following:


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[/font][font=Symbol][left]· [/font][font=Times-Roman][font=Times New Roman]Performing progressive resistance training in a periodized fashion, manipulating training variables over time. Variety in [/font]training variables (e.g. one to five sets per exercise, one - 12 repetitions at various intensities and velocities, two to five days per week) helps ensure optimum stress to meet the individuals health and fitness goals for strength and power."[/font][/left]
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[left][font=Arial]For basic muscular strength, I have always understood that you set the weight at a level that you could not complete another rep in good form, in other words, you complete 11 but stop before 12 because you can't complete it. In the old days, Jones, Darden et al initially preached doing the last rep so you would literally get stuck or experience brief momentary muscular failure (BMF). As many of us soon learned, lifting to failure on a regular basis resulted in plateus, and even regression. At some point, even they modified BMF recomendations to be the last rep should be where you couldn't lift another in good form. [/font][/left]

[left][font=Arial]Again, having no practical experience with the bowflex, I still don't see any reason why, doing resistance exercises in this fashion with the bowflex would be better than doing nothing.[/font][/left]

[left][font=Arial]Second, Doc Moribus is also correct that doing the same routine over and over again, i.e., the basic muscular fitness routine, will ultimately cause the body to adapt and there will not be sufficient variations in stress to produce additional gains. Varying the stresses periodically is key to improving (but even there there are plateus). LA was not doing the basic routine to train for the TdF. But it would be incorrect to suggest that it would be a bad routine for a retired pro cyclist who wants to maintain basic muscular fitness. Nonetheless, periodized resistance training is the correct protocol for athletes looking to incorporate strength training and improve power. [/font][/left]
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[left][font=Arial]But it would be a gross overstatement to assume that there is no value in maintaining basic muscular strength following standard protocol, even with a mickey mouse machine like the bowflex, or even bodyweight exercises like pushups, chin ups etc. In a perfect world, every rider would train periodically with a power meter according to the great resource tools you posters recomend. But, does that mean that the vast majority of riders who simply ride their regular routes at their regular pace are getting no value from the activity? Criticize it for being inefficient, for not producing peak results, sure; but valueless. [/font][/left]
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[left][font=Arial]I have ridden with a group of old geezers who have been doing the same Tues/Thurs/Sat/Sun routine along the same routes and the same pace for thirty or more years. If I miss the ride and see them on the way home, I can tell time by where they are on the route. But those old [censored] are still out there, and god willing we'll be out there, we could do a lot worse than riding with a bunch of buddies and kicking the tails of a lot of young riders over the years[/font][/left]
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[left][font=Arial]The same is true with strength training. Maintaining basic muscular fitness will vastly improve the quality of your life and improve your riding. I know at least one relatively fit neuroradiologist that swears be the bowflex and thinks it is the cat's meow. Mock him, (as I have) but he has been using it regularly for ten or so years. [/font][/left]
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[left][font=Arial]If there are articles citing a whole host of injuries from bowflex use because the geometry is f***** then avoid it, but as a free piece of equipment that might be able to do the basics, how is it better than doing nothing? [/font][/left]
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[left][font=Arial]And having been lifting for over 20 years, I have seen the whole group of people who believe they have found the grail. Strength training has come along way but the research is still pretty new. In thirty years I have seen it all from coaches telling folks that lifting would bulk you up and make you slow, to the certainty of Arthur Jones and the nautilus group, super slow training, high intensity training, high speed power training, plyometrics, machines are bad, machines are the answer, Russian kettle bell classes, etc. Diet advice has been the same, low fat, low carbs.[/font][/left]
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[left][font=Arial]The question is not whether there are a million better resistance machines than the bowflex, there probably are. The question is whether he can make use of a free piece of equipment to improve his strength and hopefully his riding[/font] [/left]

kopride said:

[font=Arial]The question is whether he can make use of a free piece of equipment to improve his strength and hopefully his riding[/font]

I haven't seen an infomercial for a bowflex with pedals, so I'm betting the answer to the second part is "no".

frenchyge said:

I haven't seen an infomercial for a bowflex with pedals, so I'm betting the answer to the second part is "no".

My husband and I have one and we have hardly used it. We worked out on it together for a while, but it was a pain to adjust everything for each exercise. Now I just go to the gym.

Doctor Morbius said:

Collect dust. That's why he gave it to you. They don't produce results. They are fine for overweight housewives, but for athletics they are pretty much useless. Sell it on ebay and get some used free weights if you want to do any strength training that will have a functional carryover to athletics.

I absolutely and completely disagree. The bowflex is a good machine if you are motivated to use it. My background before cycling was bodybuilding and personal training. I have a degree in Ex phys too. Anyway, you are certainly not going to become Mr. Olympia using it, but it has good feel, is easy to use and WILL give you a good work out.

azdroptop said:

I absolutely and completely disagree. The bowflex is a good machine if you are motivated to use it. My background before cycling was bodybuilding and personal training. I have a degree in Ex phys too. Anyway, you are certainly not going to become Mr. Olympia using it, but it has good feel, is easy to use and WILL give you a good work out.

Exactly, it's like telling a newbie to cycling that they should not bother even riding a bike until they can purchase a TdF worthy racer. A lot of great riders, including Landis, caught the bug on cheap bikes that most racers would not be caught dead on. I have ridden with my fair share of messengers on derilict machines that routinely spank guys on great bikes. In the So. Jersey MS150, a 90 year old chinese lady finished the ride on a wreck of a bike. If you want to get a workout in, any piece of [censored] will do.

azdroptop said:

I absolutely and completely disagree. The bowflex is a good machine if you are motivated to use it.

Well, it's better than sitting on the couch perhaps, but an hour's Bowflex workout will not yield the same results as an hour's workout with free weights. So, why bother? Not to mention the cost of these devices. I realize the OP got one for free, but compared to a few hundred lbs of barbells and adjustable dumbbells the free weights have become commodity items and can be found for 30 cents a pound in most used sporting goods stores. They can also be easily broken down and stored under a bed.

Quoted post said:

My background before cycling was bodybuilding and personal training. I have a degree in Ex phys too. Anyway, you are certainly not going to become Mr. Olympia using it, but it has good feel, is easy to use and WILL give you a good work out.

I wonder how many professional or college level sporting teams use them? As I've stated before, they're great for sedentary overweight housewives, but for elite or aspiring athletes there are better methods. Nay, not just better ... superior! One should always use the best most efficent method to achieve their goals.

Moral of story - don't buy into the marketing hype! Use the tried and true efficent methods. In 20 years our landfills will be filled with Bowflex machines just like they are with the Bullworker isometric gizmos and thighmasters of yesteryear.

Doctor Morbius said:

Well, it's better than sitting on the couch perhaps, but an hour's Bowflex workout will not yield the same results as an hour's workout with free weights. So, why bother? Not to mention the cost of these devices. I realize the OP got one for free, but compared to a few hundred lbs of barbells and adjustable dumbbells the free weights have become commodity items and can be found for 30 cents a pound in most used sporting goods stores. They can also be easily broken down and stored under a bed.

I wonder how many professional or college level sporting teams use them? As I've stated before, they're great for sedentary overweight housewives, but for elite or aspiring athletes there are better methods. Nay, not just better ... superior! One should always use the best most efficent method to achieve their goals.

Moral of story - don't buy into the marketing hype! Use the tried and true efficent methods. In 20 years our landfills will be filled with Bowflex machines just like they are with the Bullworker isometric gizmos and thighmasters of yesteryear.

Well you make good points, but the original poster asked if it could help him with off season training. Sure it can. Leg extensions, leg curls and general muscle strengthening on a bowflex would be beneficial. Free weights are superior in many, many ,ways, but the bowflex offers a good eccentric and concentric contraction, is easy to use, offers a variety of excercises and is safe to use on your own. Again, it's not what I would recommend for a serious weight lifter, but for general off-season fitness it's a great machine. Work in the FREE price tag and it's golden. 🙂

Doctor Morbius said:

Well, it's better than sitting on the couch perhaps, but an hour's Bowflex workout will not yield the same results as an hour's workout with free weights. So, why bother? Not to mention the cost of these devices. I realize the OP got one for free, but compared to a few hundred lbs of barbells and adjustable dumbbells the free weights have become commodity items and can be found for 30 cents a pound in most used sporting goods stores. They can also be easily broken down and stored under a bed.

I wonder how many professional or college level sporting teams use them? As I've stated before, they're great for sedentary overweight housewives, but for elite or aspiring athletes there are better methods. Nay, not just better ... superior! One should always use the best most efficent method to achieve their goals.

Moral of story - don't buy into the marketing hype! Use the tried and true efficent methods. In 20 years our landfills will be filled with Bowflex machines just like they are with the Bullworker isometric gizmos and thighmasters of yesteryear.

Well thighmaster and buttmaster really work!! I also swear by that cortisol stuff that the supposedly burns all your fat off. Seriously, Don't be such an elitist snob. In my twenties, there was nothing I enjoyed more than kicking the [censored] out of some snobby cyclist (with all the gear and alleged know how about the latest training techniques) while riding a cheap Cannondale with Sport LX components. Life is a marathon not a sprint. The test is whether we will still be fit, riding, and enjoying life when we hit our seventies and eighties. Now, I have all the high tech [censored] and it is all useful to get better, but there is room in this sport for just experimenting with what works best for you.

Actually, bowflex gets pretty good internet related reviews. Some of the models were recalled for a defective fitting, so the OP should make sure that this model wasn't affected, or that it has the fix.

Again, if you have the space for a few key pieces of free weights, that is the better option. But, it is a [censored] trying to get a good squat workout by yourself without the right equipment, and there are limitations in even the better leg extension/leg curl units. As I said, for free, the price is right and I bet you could get a good workout with it. I have had pretty good body weight and dumbell workouts in crappy motel gyms when push came to shove.

And, elite cross country skiiers are probably not using nordictracks to train, but there is a fair number of folks who swear by them as an adjunct part of training. Similarly, serious martial artists are not doing tae bo, but my wife does it and it looks like an ass kicker of a workout.

As I said in an earlier post, in the late eighties, early nineties, I encountered Jones, Darden, and Ken E. Liester devotees who believed that HIT was the grail and would spout all kinds of pseudo science in support. Nautilus was supposedly the answer, throw away the free weights. BTW, I always found HIT incorporating machines and weights to be a reasonably efficient way to train for someone who wanted to spend less than 40 minutes in the gym, but the big guys in the gym were clearly doing something totally different (they were also training 2-3 hours a day and I didn't have time to lift like that and also get good rides in). Nonetheless, these HIT devotees were extreme and looked down in disdain at anybody doing anything different. Then when HIT fell out of favor, it was "super slow," which also allegedly had scientific data supporting it. Now it is progressive periodization. Five years from now we will be hearing something else.

jasper808 said:

I had a friend give me a Bowflex recently. With the off-season approaching, I was wonderin if this thing can help me do any off-season training or is it just going to collect dust?

[font=Times New Roman]My wife purchased a bowflex for me three years ago; she ordered “last years” model with all the attachments for half of what the regular price would be (which is still pricey). Last year for the holidays she purchased the bowflex dumbbells as a gift also. I’m just getting back into cycling after spending 15 years in the military and in that time have spent countless hours in physical training and in many different gyms using free weights/machines and whatever else was available. I have had my own free weights with a bench/dumbbells and all the bells and whistles.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] I must say once I got the bowflex I never touched the free weights again. In fact just before my move from El Paso, Texas to Colorado Springs, Colorado I gave all the free weight equipment to Goodwill. Not only did I drop over a thousand pounds in shipping expenses in the move but I opened up a whole room I used as a home gym. Now I have a corner down in the basement with the bowflex and the dumbbells. My current job has me traveling and staying in hotels quite a bit, sometimes for weeks. I simply take a socket wrench and loosen a few bolts (takes about 10 minutes) and I am able to put the main bowflex (no attachments) into the Subaru with luggage and the bike goes on top, works great for me. The combination allows me to do every type of exercise I need to do and on the go. I doubt I would purchase a new bowflex because of cost but the bowflex dumbbells are great (only drawback is they are limited to 52.5 Lbs a piece). I got the stand and shipping free through [censored]’s Sporting goods so the cost was just the weights ($399). If you were to add up the amount of free weights you would have to buy to achieve the same combination and take into consideration the saved space, the fact that it takes me about 2 seconds to go from 5 lbs to 50 pounds, the cost and ease of use of the bowflex dumbbells far outweighs free weight dumbbells. [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Resistance training with weights is exactly that, doesn’t matter what vehicle you use to accomplish the mission (I’ve used railroad ties and cinder blocks when deployed with my squad). To say that the bowflex doesn’t produce results and is useless for athletes I would say that person has never used one and is forming an opinion that is baseless. The bowflex equipment is expensive, but it does save time and space. I can say I do not miss having free weight plates all over the place, nor do I miss spinning off the weight collars changing the plates from one bar to the other and so on. The bowflex may not be perfect but you won’t see me going back to free weights unless I win a free membership to some local gym, and even then the main purpose there would be just to look at the hotties.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] Give it a try and see if you like it, you can always get rid of it and in your case the price was right. [/font]