Antilock braking for bicycles

Doug Goncz said:

Wouldn't it be great if you could backpedal your multigear
bike and get braking that would ease the front brake the
instant the rear tire started to lift?

Considering that few riders ever brake hard enough to raise
the rear wheel, this is a solution looking for a problem.
When people go over the bars, it is not from braking too
hard, but rather from not bracing rider weight with the arms
to keep from sliding off the saddle. The bicycle
subsequently overturns when the rider's legs hit the
handlebar, not from excess braking.

draco.acs.uci.edu9.36.htmlOpen ↗

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Doug Goncz
Wouldn't it be great if you could backpedal your multigear
bike and get braking that would ease the front brake the
instant the rear tire started to lift?

I built such a bike in about 1992.

It was a Shimano three speed coaster brake hub, on the
cheapest frame I could get, salvaged from the cleanout of
the Hollybrooke condominium bicycle storage room.

The torque arm was supported by about a 10 x 25 mm cartridge
bearing which in turn was spaced by a shim made from a
polyethylene milk jug cap, the kind that you have to tear
the tab off of to open. The rearranged axle lock nuts
applied force from the outside through the now mobilized arm
to the large (50mm) bearing of tiny (individual?) balls that
was the left hub cup and cone. The cartridge bearing was
therefore used at extrememly _low_ PV in its designed
function, and at high P, zero V in its thrust ability. Such
bearings do have thrust ability.

The braking action was overly responsive in first, about
right in second, and had a strange behavior in third. I'd
say third on that bike was for no-traffic, no-hill
conditions only, but I did ride it 14 miles from Greenwood
Drive to Pickett Rd. to the bike shop and it did work, and I
didn't have any accidents. You could instantly snap the
shifter to any brake geometry you'd care so all in all it
was fairly safe.

Well, now I am building the wide range Thunderbolt and I
would like to get rid of this one of about 120 boxes I have
lying around. If you'd like to have a go, all the parts
needed are in the box. Sorry, the frame is long gone. No
spokes. No rims. Just the magic hub, fittings, cabling, and
caliper brake, a good one if I remember correctly.

I'd mount the shifter on the seat post and leave the
handlebars gloriously bare, but your taste is not my taste.

My physics project at NVCC: Google Groups, then
"dgoncz" and some of: ultracapacitor bicycle
fluorescent flywheel inverter

4-1-9 Fraud
secretservice.govelectronic evidence.shtmlOpen ↗

Doug-

Doesn’t quite fit the definition of antilock brakes.
Locking occurs when the tires are not spinning, or a mild locking related phenomenon known as wheel slip occurs when the tire is moving at different speed than the ground beneath it (wheel is slower than ground in braking).

Antilock brakes release brakes that are moving slower than the pavement beneath the tires. Automotive antilock brakes release and reapply brakes up to fifty times per second, at least that was typical in 1989-1991 time frame when I was writing antilock brake controller software as an engineer at General Motors- I haven’t really kept up with the ABS brake technology since I left General Motors in 1993 so it’s conceivable release cycles are faster nowdays.

You can endo without locking the front, just decel fast enough to create a moment about the front contact patch caused by the decel of the rider-bike-position greater than the moment behind the patch caused by the gravity-position of the rider-bike.

I think you’ve omitted details of your Anti-Flip Braking (AFB?) system.

Was your 3 speed hub on the rear with movement of the arm operating a linkage to the front to release the brake?

As for antilock bicycle brakes- here’s an all mechanical ABS brake system:
http://www.blackbirdsf.org/brake_obscura/images/brovedani.jpg
http://www.blackbirdsf.org/brake_obscura/brovedani_man.pdf
www.blackbirdsf.org/brake_obscura/

-works by using a roller cam on the rim to lift the pads periodically.
Since this manufacturer is a supplier of automotive brake components, I’m not sure if this was produced for the bike market or was merely a concept demonstration by someone in the ABS field.

Unfortunately, modulation is only wheelspeed dependent.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Jobst Brandt

BDoug Goncz said:

Wouldn't it be great if you could backpedal your multigear
bike and get braking that would ease the front brake the
instant the rear tire started to lift?

Considering that few riders ever brake hard enough to raise
the rear wheel, this is a solution looking for a problem.
When people go over the bars, it is not from braking too
hard, but rather from not bracing rider weight with the arms
to keep from sliding off the saddle. The bicycle
subsequently overturns when the rider's legs hit the
handlebar, not from excess braking.

draco.acs.uci.edu9.36.htmlOpen ↗

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] [/B]

Endo’s and rear tire lifts are a result of having a moment about the front contact patch caused by the bike-rider mass times the decel rate times the center or gravity (cg) height over the ground exceeding the competing moment caused by the mass times the distance the cg trails the front contact patch. Bracing harder on the handlebars transfers the force of the decelling rider to the handlebars, but does not change the location of the rider-bike combination’s cg nor remove it from the system. Somewhere between a .5 and .65G decell, road bikes endo.

I’ve endoed many times on my road bikes never having left my seat.

Short wheelbase recumbents flip under braking with the rider not even leaving the seat, bracing with the handlebars has little to do with whether the rider would leave the seat on a swb bent during braking.

Another way of looking at it is when you brace with the arms on the handlebars, you are forcing the handlebars forward about the contact patch. The same rider mass that forces the rear down under gravity is inertia resisting velocity change under braking and forcing the handlebars forward of the front contact patch.

meb said:

Doesn’t quite fit the definition of antilock brakes.
Locking occurs when the tires are not spinning, or a mild
locking related phenomenon known as wheel slip occurs when
the tire is moving at different speed than the ground
beneath it (wheel is slower than ground in braking).

Antilock brakes release brakes that are moving slower than
the pavement beneath the tires. Automotive antilock brakes
release and reapply brakes up to fifty times per second,
at least that was typical in 1989-1991 time frame when I
was writing antilock brake controller software as an
engineer at General Motors- I haven’t really kept up with
the ABS brake technology since I left General Motors in
1993 so it’s conceivable release cycles are faster
nowdays.

You can endo without locking the front, just decel fast
enough to create a moment about the front contact patch
caused by the decel of the rider-bike- position greater
than the moment behind the patch caused by the gravity-
position of the rider-bike.

I think you’ve omitted details of your Anti-Flip Braking
(AFB?) system.

Was your 3 speed hub on the rear with movement of the arm
operating a linkage to the front to release the brake?

As for antilock bicycle brakes- here’s an all mechanical
ABS brake system: blackbirdsf.orgbrake obscurOpen ↗
a/images/brovedani.jpg blackbirdsf.orgbrake oOpen ↗
bscura/brovedani_man.pdf
www.blackbirdsf.org/brake_obscura/

-works by using a roller cam on the rim to lift the pads
periodically. Since this manufacturer is a supplier of
automotive brake components, I’m not sure if this was
produced for the bike market or was merely a concept
demonstration by someone in the ABS field.

Unfortunately, modulation is only wheelspeed dependent.

A very simple mechanical Anti-Flip braking system was
illustrated in the Bicycling Science book by Wilson and
Whitt. That system works by having the rider only have
direct control over the rear brake which operates in the
usual fashion on the rim but is mounted on a spring-loaded
sliding mount so that it moves forward as a result of
engaging the rear rim. There is a cable attached to the
moving rear brake mechanism that then pulls on the front
brake which provides the bulk of the stopping power.

So the front brake cable is pulled by the reaction force on
the rear brake and the moment the rear wheel starts to leave
the ground this reaction force is reduced and that partially
releases the front brake to prevent a flip.

The rider can therefore pull as hard as he wants on the
brake lever and the bicycle will automatically stop with a
deceleration that is just on the verge of lifting the rear
wheel off the ground. Of course he better have a firm grasp
on the handlebars so he doesn't fly off the bike anyway. The
leverage of the cable pull on the front brake can be
adjusted depending on how much of a 'power brakes' effect is
desired by the rider.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Peter

Bmeb said:

Doesn’t quite fit the definition of antilock brakes.
Locking occurs when the tires are not spinning, or a mild
locking related phenomenon known as wheel slip occurs when
the tire is moving at different speed than the ground
beneath it (wheel is slower than ground in braking).

Antilock brakes release brakes that are moving slower than
the pavement beneath the tires. Automotive antilock brakes
release and reapply brakes up to fifty times per second,
at least that was typical in 1989-1991 time frame when I
was writing antilock brake controller software as an
engineer at General Motors- I haven’t really kept up with
the ABS brake technology since I left General Motors in
1993 so it’s conceivable release cycles are faster
nowdays.

You can endo without locking the front, just decel fast
enough to create a moment about the front contact patch
caused by the decel of the rider-bike- position greater
than the moment behind the patch caused by the gravity-
position of the rider-bike.

I think you’ve omitted details of your Anti-Flip Braking
(AFB?) system.

Was your 3 speed hub on the rear with movement of the arm
operating a linkage to the front to release the brake?

As for antilock bicycle brakes- here’s an all mechanical
ABS brake system: blackbirdsf.orgbrake obscurOpen ↗
a/images/brovedani.jpg blackbirdsf.orgbrake oOpen ↗
bscura/brovedani_man.pdf
www.blackbirdsf.org/brake_obscura/

-works by using a roller cam on the rim to lift the pads
periodically. Since this manufacturer is a supplier of
automotive brake components, I’m not sure if this was
produced for the bike market or was merely a concept
demonstration by someone in the ABS field.

Unfortunately, modulation is only wheelspeed dependent.

A very simple mechanical Anti-Flip braking system was
illustrated in the Bicycling Science book by Wilson and
Whitt. That system works by having the rider only have
direct control over the rear brake which operates in the
usual fashion on the rim but is mounted on a spring-loaded
sliding mount so that it moves forward as a result of
engaging the rear rim. There is a cable attached to the
moving rear brake mechanism that then pulls on the front
brake which provides the bulk of the stopping power.

So the front brake cable is pulled by the reaction force on
the rear brake and the moment the rear wheel starts to leave
the ground this reaction force is reduced and that partially
releases the front brake to prevent a flip.

The rider can therefore pull as hard as he wants on the
brake lever and the bicycle will automatically stop with a
deceleration that is just on the verge of lifting the rear
wheel off the ground. Of course he better have a firm grasp
on the handlebars so he doesn't fly off the bike anyway. The
leverage of the cable pull on the front brake can be
adjusted depending on how much of a 'power brakes' effect is
desired by the rider. [/B]

Peter-Impressive approach.

I assume you're referring to the Calderazzo brake system shown on pp210-212 or the the 1982 edition of Bicycle Science.

Was this system ever manufactured?

I think this might work also work well when trying to control 4 brakes with 2 hands on my quadribent.

Thanks

On the few occasions that I had to brake that hard, I throw
my butt as far back behind the saddle as is reasonably
possible and still remain in control. This helps hold the
rear wheel on the ground.

Not perfect, of course. Nothing is. But my cycling brain
knows enough that the rear tire starting to skid is a sure
sign that there is no longer enough weight to safely hold
the rear wheel on the ground. At which point I let up
slightly on the front brake.

So far <me, rapping on my bed frame>, I have not experienced
the event lovingly known as a "face plant".

"May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear
for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner geocities.comczcornerOpen ↗

meb said:

Peter said:

meb said:

As for antilock bicycle brakes- here’s an all
mechanical ABS brake system: blackbirdsf.orgbrake obscurOpen ↗
blackbirdsf.orgbrake obscurOpen ↗
a/images/brovedani.jpg blackbirdsf.orgbrake oOpen ↗
blackbirdsf.orgbrake oOpen ↗
bscura/brovedani_man.pdf
www.blackbirdsf.org/brake_obscura/

-works by using a roller cam on the rim to lift the
pads periodically. Since this manufacturer is a
supplier of automotive brake components, I’m not
sure if this was produced for the bike market or was
merely a concept demonstration by someone in the ABS
field.

Unfortunately, modulation is only wheelspeed
dependent.

A very simple mechanical Anti-Flip braking system was
illustrated in the Bicycling Science book by Wilson
and Whitt. That system works by having the rider only
have direct control over the rear brake which operates
in the usual fashion on the rim but is mounted on a
spring-loaded sliding mount so that it moves forward
as a result of engaging the rear rim. There is a cable
attached to the moving rear brake mechanism that then
pulls on the front brake which provides the bulk of
the stopping power. So the front brake cable is pulled
by the reaction force on the rear brake and the moment
the rear wheel starts to leave the ground this
reaction force is reduced and that partially releases
the front brake to prevent a flip. The rider can
therefore pull as hard as he wants on the brake lever
and the bicycle will automatically stop with a
deceleration that is just on the verge of lifting the
rear wheel off the ground. Of course he better have a
firm grasp on the handlebars so he doesn't fly off the
bike anyway.

Peter-Impressive approach.

I assume you're referring to the Calderazzo brake system
shown on pp210- 212 or the the 1982 edition of Bicycle
Science.

That's the one.

Quoted message said:

Was this system ever manufactured?

I don't believe so, but the prototype was reported to work
well until the fork failed from the stress of too many
demonstrations of high- speed stops.

Quoted message said:

I think this might work also work well when trying to
control 4 brakes with 2 hands on my quadribent.

There was an article in Bicycling a couple decades or so ago
with a similar arrangement on a tandem that was used to
increase braking power rather than anti-flip. It used a rear
hub brake as the actuating mechanism and attached a cable
from the reaction arm of the hub brake to a rim brake. In
that particular case the rim brake was also on the rear
wheel and the purpose was to control both brakes with a
single pull and to substantially multiply the force applied
to the rim brake. The design looked easier to construct than
the Calderazzo one since the hub brake already has the
reaction arm.

meb said:

... Short wheelbase recumbents flip under braking with the
rider not even leaving the seat, bracing with the
handlebars has little to do with whether the rider would
leave the seat on a swb bent during braking....

If the seat (and therefore combined rider/bicycle center
of mass) is low enough, the SWB recumbent will not have
enough front wheel traction to overturn. I can easily lock
both front wheels on my trike [1] without the chainring
hitting the ground. The same is true for my lowracer [2],
but in this case locking the front wheel leads to a loss
of balance.

[1] ihpva.orgdf1a.jpgOpen ↗
[2] ihpva.orgSunset001.jpgOpen ↗

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

Doug Goncz said:

Wouldn't it be great if you could backpedal your multigear
bike and get braking that would ease the front brake the
instant the rear tire started to lift?

[snip description]

This thread about anti-flip brakes has me wondering... What
do you do in the rain/snow/ice/gravel/whatever? I tend use
my rear brakes more in inclement weather, since a front-
wheel slide is quite possible and hazardous.

Side note: that's probably why I go through more rear
brake pads than front. I use the front brakes more often,
but the rear brakes are used in the conditions that
accelerate pad wear.

--
Dave dvt at psu dot edu

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Tom Sherman

Bmeb said:

... Short wheelbase recumbents flip under braking with the
rider not even leaving the seat, bracing with the
handlebars has little to do with whether the rider would
leave the seat on a swb bent during braking....

If the seat (and therefore combined rider/bicycle center
of mass) is low enough, the SWB recumbent will not have
enough front wheel traction to overturn. I can easily lock
both front wheels on my trike [1] without the chainring
hitting the ground. The same is true for my lowracer [2],
but in this case locking the front wheel leads to a loss
of balance.

[1] ihpva.orgdf1a.jpgOpen ↗
[2] ihpva.orgSunset001.jpgOpen ↗

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side) [/B]

I was deeming lowracer to be distinct from swb bents rather than a subset. The very low CG of the lowracer keeps them from having all their weight transfered off the rear under braking, even at faster .7 G decels.

Many persons's classify lowracers as a subset of swb recumbents, so to the extent one deems lowracers as a subset of SWb rather than distince, then there is a significant minority of swb immune to braking endos. However, most SWB bents, have sufficiently high seats relative their rearward placement that they endo under heavy braking.

BTW Tom, I recently saw a Sunset advertised with a caption that it was one of only 18 built. Would he have been referring to that particular model of Sunset or was that all Sunsets total?

As for the tadpole trike, that doesn't surprise me since tadpoles have low a low cg, have the rider positioned so that there is typically a static 60% rear bias before braking. What I wonder, is just how much faster a tadpole can decel-any figures?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Dvt

BDoug Goncz said:

Wouldn't it be great if you could backpedal your multigear
bike and get braking that would ease the front brake the
instant the rear tire started to lift?

[snip description]

This thread about anti-flip brakes has me wondering... What
do you do in the rain/snow/ice/gravel/whatever? I tend use
my rear brakes more in inclement weather, since a front-
wheel slide is quite possible and hazardous.

Side note: that's probably why I go through more rear
brake pads than front. I use the front brakes more often,
but the rear brakes are used in the conditions that
accelerate pad wear.

--
Dave dvt at psu dot edu [/B]

On low coefficient of friction surfaces, anti-lock brakes would give you more steering control since the wheels continue to spin so you can steer and balance with effect rather than an ineffective slide. Anti-lock brakes stop faster on most surfaces since the coefficient of sliding friction is lower than the coefficient of static friction, and anti lock brakes continuously and more rapidly than humanly possible make corrections to keep the wheel spinning. On a handful of surfaces such as sand, gravel, or snow, a car actually stops slower with ABS because the locked tire pack the loose surface forward of the tire helping to stop quicker. With the thinner round surface contour bike tires, I’m not sure if you’d get enough packing effect or if the loose surface would pass by on either side of the tire.

Under these low coefficient of friction surfaces, braking endo risks are substantially eliminated.

The weight penalties of a microprocessor controlled or analog motor controlled antilock brake system would be excessive in most bicycle applications.

The anti-flip brakes would not be a great choice for low coefficient of friction surfaces.
These anti-flip brakes are using rear wheel torque on the brake not rear wheel lock to release the front. A locked rear wheel would still be applying force to the front brake linkage. It would exhibit a mild anti lock element since the force on the brake would be reduces when the locked rear wheel is sliding since the lower friction sliding coefficient of friction would transfer less force to the front brake.

With the anti-flip brakes you are modulating front wheel control with feedback from the opposite wheel, no antilock component controlling the rear wheel, and no significant wheelspeed feedback. Also, differing coefficient of frictions would have differing preferred front/rear-brake bias and optimal front–rear weight transfers. Without some significant wheelspeed feedback, you’d not be calibrated for differing coefficient of friction surfaces.

Perhaps the Brovendani anti-lock calipers or something building upon that concept would be a good choice if you had those surfaces on your ride regularly since they are lightweight and provide some benefit albeit they are much more primitive than a microprocessor controlled abs.

meb said:

... BTW Tom, I recently saw a Sunset advertised with a
caption that it was one of only 18 built. Would he have
been referring to that particular model of Sunset or was
that all Sunsets total?...

There is some controversy on this subject. 18 is the
generally accepted total production number, but a couple of
people claim 19 Sunsets were built.

Earth Cycles had orders for more Sunsets (and Dragonflyers),
but was unable to pay its vendors for the parts and
subcontracted labor on the ones already built. 🙁

Tom Sherman - Sunset 3 of 18 (or 19)

meb said:

As for the tadpole trike, that doesn't surprise me since
tadpoles have

low a low cg,

Quoted message said:

have the rider positioned so that there is typically a

static 60% rear bias

Quoted message said:

before braking. What I wonder, is just how much

faster a tadpole can

Quoted message said:

decel-any figures?

That 60% rear bias is way off for any modern trike. It's
more like 30 % rear, which much improves high speed
cornering.

Although I don't have any figures concering tadpole
decelerations, I can offer this anecdotal info: While riding
with ordinary bicycles, a tadpole rider quickly learns not
to brake too hard when being followed. I have been rear-
ended more than a few times. Which suggests that a decent
tadpole can fairly easily exceed the 0.6g maximum of a
typical bike.

--
Ted Bennett Portland OR

Quoted message said:

So far <me, rapping on my bed frame>, I have not
experienced the event lovingly known as a "face plant".

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Never ridden a penny farthing, then?

--
Ted Bennett Portland OR

Ted Bennett said:

Quoted message said:

So far <me, rapping on my bed frame>, I have not
experienced the event lovingly known as a "face plant".

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Never ridden a penny farthing, then?

that is a pretty reasonable assumption.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by David Reuteler

BTed Bennett said:

Quoted message said:

So far <me, rapping on my bed frame>, I have not
experienced the event lovingly known as a "face plant".

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Never ridden a penny farthing, then?

that is a pretty reasonable assumption.
--
david reuteler [email hidden] [/B]

Or at least one minus anti flip brakes 😄

I'm sure a lot of people are going to say the same thing,
but it seems pretty redundant to me. I mean, I'm already the
"anti lock brake" system on my bike.

It's not like some old lady in a minivan with the stereo
going, that only has to brake completely unexpectedly and in
a panic. When I brake hard on my bike (on and off road) I'm
fully concentrating, and I know what I'm doing.
Furthermore.. I can feel the tires, I can hear the tires..
and I can see the front wheel and I know exactly what kind
of surface I'm on.

Unlike mindlessly stamping on a brake pedal in a car, I have
very precise controls for each individual wheel that I'm
actuating with my hand. I've never wished that I had
computer control intervention...

Sorry if I come off cocky, I do appreciate your technical
work though.. experimenting is fun.

Mike mikebeauchamp.commikebeauchamp.comOpen ↗

" Doug Goncz " <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040315100753.28329.00001516@mb-
m29.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

Wouldn't it be great if you could backpedal your multigear
bike and get

braking

Quoted message said:

that would ease the front brake the instant the rear tire
started to lift?

I built such a bike in about 1992.

It was a Shimano three speed coaster brake hub, on the
cheapest frame I

could

Quoted message said:

get, salvaged from the cleanout of the Hollybrooke
condominium bicycle

storage

Quoted message said:

room.

The torque arm was supported by about a 10 x 25 mm
cartridge bearing which

in

Quoted message said:

turn was spaced by a shim made from a polyethylene milk
jug cap, the kind

that

Quoted message said:

you have to tear the tab off of to open. The rearranged
axle lock nuts

applied

Quoted message said:

force from the outside through the now mobilized arm to
the large (50mm) bearing of tiny (individual?) balls that
was the left hub cup and cone.

The

Quoted message said:

cartridge bearing was therefore used at extrememly _low_
PV in its

designed

Quoted message said:

function, and at high P, zero V in its thrust ability.
Such bearings do

have

Quoted message said:

thrust ability.

The braking action was overly responsive in first, about
right in second,

and

Quoted message said:

had a strange behavior in third. I'd say third on that
bike was for

no-traffic,

Quoted message said:

no-hill conditions only, but I did ride it 14 miles from
Greenwood Drive

to

Quoted message said:

Pickett Rd. to the bike shop and it did work, and I didn't
have any

accidents.

Quoted message said:

You could instantly snap the shifter to any brake geometry
you'd care so

all in

Quoted message said:

all it was fairly safe.

Well, now I am building the wide range Thunderbolt and I
would like to get

rid

Quoted message said:

of this one of about 120 boxes I have lying around. If
you'd like to have

a go,

Quoted message said:

all the parts needed are in the box. Sorry, the frame is
long gone. No

spokes.

Quoted message said:

No rims. Just the magic hub, fittings, cabling, and
caliper brake, a good

one

Quoted message said:

if I remember correctly.

I'd mount the shifter on the seat post and leave the
handlebars gloriously bare, but your taste is not my
taste.

My physics project at NVCC: Google Groups, then "dgoncz"
and some of: ultracapacitor bicycle fluorescent flywheel
inverter

4-1-9 Fraud
secretservice.govelectronic evidence.shtmlOpen ↗

Ted Bennett said:

Quoted message said:

So far <me, rapping on my bed frame>, I have not
experienced the event lovingly known as a "face plant".

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Never ridden a penny farthing, then?

He parachutes to the ground after going over the bars while
braking. 😉

--
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

Quoted message said:

From: "Mike Beauchamp" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I'm sure a lot of people are going to say the same thing,
but it seems pretty redundant to me. I mean, I'm already
the "anti lock brake" system on my bike.

Hell, yes! I ony suggest this as another _way_ to rock and
roll, not a better system for any class of rider. It is
just a topology, a geometry, a configuration. It was loads
of fun to ride.

I mean, the main advantage is no levers on the bars. So
what? Stylish? Doesn't matter.

Still, if one of you would like to try the parts kit, I've
still got it.

My physics project at NVCC: Google Groups, then
"dgoncz" and some of: ultracapacitor bicycle
fluorescent flywheel inverter

4-1-9 Fraud
secretservice.govelectronic evidence.shtmlOpen ↗