Anti French

Americans are generally ignorant of everything and anyone using the word
jingoistic is a [censored].

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Quoted message said:

A while ago, I tried to decide who where worse, the anti French
Americans
or the anti American French. At that time, I decided the latter,
because
most anti French Americans are simply ignorant about France, while most
anti American French have some information about America, but reject
it.

However, I would say that the anti French Americans here have enough
information about France to know better. Therefore, I identify the
jingoistic anti French Armstrong supporters with the jingoistic
anti American Virenque supporters, which is saying a lot.

-ilan

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Quoted message said:

...while most
anti American French have some information about America, but reject
it.

But that would make their opinion have a basis in fact and therefore be at
least somewhat reasonable. So by that criterium, I'd say the anti-French
Americans are worse.

Jonathan v.d. Sluis a écrit :

Quoted message said:

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Quoted message said:

...while most
anti American French have some information about America, but reject
it.

But that would make their opinion have a basis in fact and therefore be at
least somewhat reasonable. So by that criterium, I'd say the anti-French
Americans are worse.

Except that the usual anti American arguments are about the dominance
of America, and usually in areas where America is better. This
is exactly consistent with anti Armstrong sentiment.

Anyway, I always challenge any French person who expresses anti
Americanism.
This is particularly easy if the party is over 70 years old, as my
argument starts with: "Not everyone in France was happy to have
Americans
arrive here in WWII."

-ilan

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Jonathan v.d. Sluis a écrit :

Quoted message said:

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Quoted message said:

...while most
anti American French have some information about America, but reject
it.

But that would make their opinion have a basis in fact and therefore be at
least somewhat reasonable. So by that criterium, I'd say the anti-French
Americans are worse.

<<Except that the usual anti American arguments are about the dominance
of America, and usually in areas where America is better. This
is exactly consistent with anti Armstrong sentiment.>>

But that's ad-hoc reasoning. If you wanted to hand out your divine
preference to whichever party held the opinion you considered to be the most
correct, then there would have been no need to set some motivational
criterium, would there? You can just say, 'I sympathize with the anti French
Americans because I think they are right' and not blabber something about
rejecting information.

<<Anyway, I always challenge any French person who expresses anti
Americanism.
This is particularly easy if the party is over 70 years old, as my
argument starts with: "Not everyone in France was happy to have
Americans
arrive here in WWII.">>

Some people here in the Netherlands believe we should always agree with the
USA because they freed us from the Germans. But as it was mostly Canadians
that marched in here, there should by that rationale be at least a multiple
choice of opinions concerning many modern political issues, like the Kyoto
protocol or the war in Iraq. Sometimes, being pro-Canadian is more or less
the same as being as being anti-American, but it fully honors the Allies who
defended our Freedom to boot. Wonderful solution, don't you think?

Both countries think they are better than everyone else. I think it's
a tie.

How frustrating must it be for the frogs that the Americans are
dominating le Tour? Who's the best French hope for the future?

Alex a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Both countries think they are better than everyone else. I think it's
a tie.

This seems right. From my Internet experience, people from
monolithic cultures like the USA or France are pretty ignorant
about everything else and it is people from smaller countries
who have a wider perception of the world.

-ilan

Alex said:

Both countries think they are better than everyone else. I think it's
a tie.

I think you are correct

Quoted message said:

How frustrating must it be for the frogs that the Americans are
dominating le Tour?

It's probably as frustrating as good US riders find having to go all
the way to France to find a decent bike race.

I like the French. I'll gladly trade Presidents with
them....intellegence agencies, too.

Jonathan v.d. Sluis a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Some people here in the Netherlands believe we should always agree with the
USA because they freed us from the Germans.

I'm watching French TV right now, and Dave is one of the guests. Does
that mean we should always agree with the Netherlands?

-ilan

Quoted message said:

Alex a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Both countries think they are better than everyone else. I think it's
a tie.

This seems right.

The same seems to go for anyone anywhere steeped in nationalistic
sentiment and willing to talk about it. Geographical
pride-identification seems common, as I've observed people in my life.

Quoted message said:

From my Internet experience, people from
monolithic cultures like the USA...

Why do you say US culture is monolithic? People emigrate to the US from
all over the world. I would /guess/ the US is "rich" in cultural
diversity, rather than the opposite.

That said, (in the US) heavy-handed moralists/traditionalists (right)
and socialists (left) do everything possible to destroy diversity.

Quoted message said:

... or France are pretty ignorant
about everything else and it is people from smaller countries
who have a wider perception of the world.

I don't know about that -- it is a stereotypical judgement itself.

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Jonathan v.d. Sluis a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Some people here in the Netherlands believe we should always agree with

the

Quoted message said:

USA because they freed us from the Germans.

<<I'm watching French TV right now, and Dave is one of the guests. Does
that mean we should always agree with the Netherlands?

-ilan>>

If you can distill something remotely looking like a viewpoint from my
country, then please be my guest and agree with it.

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Quoted message said:

Both countries think they are better than everyone else. I think it's
a tie.

When I travelled through France (from the Ardennes to Hendaye) last year, I
was struck by the humility of the people living there.

Quoted message said:

A while ago, I tried to decide who where worse, the anti French
Americans
or the anti American French. At that time, I decided the latter,
because
most anti French Americans are simply ignorant about France, while most
anti American French have some information about America, but reject
it.

However, I would say that the anti French Americans here have enough
information about France to know better. Therefore, I identify the
jingoistic anti French Armstrong supporters with the jingoistic
anti American Virenque supporters, which is saying a lot.

-ilan

O come on now, definitely the anti French Americans are worse.

Most certainly.

But they are also more right so it's a trade off.

D

Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

ad-hoc

Been doing the Scrypto..?

I am by no means a Francophile, and I enjoyed the "banned substances" joke
immensely, but all that notwithstanding, it is hard to imagine a spectacle
such as the TdF taking place anywheres but Frogland.

The castles, the rural countryside, and the spectacle of the Champs Elysees
at the end are quintessentially Gallic. Like them or not, the French know
how to put on a stage race.

The Italians and the Spanish are no slouches either.

I shall miss July after this one is gone; it won't be the same. I'll have
to pay for a "live streaming" feed of cycle racing accompanied only by the
sounds of helicopters and motor scooters. Better that than nothing, I
suppose, but I know that, with Lance retired, the Outdoor Life Network will
drop daily coverage in favor of something like they presented for the Giro
this year.

In my mind, everyone who has endured the years and miles it requires to
claim a place in the Tour peloton is a true hero.

"Alex" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Both countries think they are better than everyone else. I think it's
a tie.

How frustrating must it be for the frogs that the Americans are
dominating le Tour? Who's the best French hope for the future?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A while ago, I tried to decide who where worse, the anti French
Americans or the anti American French. At that time, I decided
the latter, because most anti French Americans are simply
ignorant about France, while most anti American French have
some information about America, but reject it.

However, I would say that the anti French Americans here have enough
information about France to know better. Therefore, I identify the
jingoistic anti French Armstrong supporters with the jingoistic
anti American Virenque supporters, which is saying a lot.

Ilan, you forget that it's good sport to make fun of the French but not much
sport to be made fun of by them. Much like Mortimer Snerd.

Det är inte fullständigt utrett vad "[email hidden]" syftade på i
news:<[email hidden]> som postades 5 Jul
2005 11:50:28 -0700 i gruppen rec.bicycles.racing men texten i fråga återges
här:

Quoted message said:

A while ago, I tried to decide who where worse, the anti French
Americans
or the anti American French. At that time, I decided the latter,
because
most anti French Americans are simply ignorant about France, while most
anti American French have some information about America, but reject
it.

However, I would say that the anti French Americans here have enough
information about France to know better. Therefore, I identify the
jingoistic anti French Armstrong supporters with the jingoistic
anti American Virenque supporters, which is saying a lot.

Are the anti French bigots in the group still upset about the fact that France
was reluctant to go to Iraq to search for weapons of mass destruction?

Quoted message said:

-ilan

--
Fac ut vivas.

Ferme ta putain de gueule, estie de calice. When you Americans put on a
decent international bike race, we'll talk.

Hope to see you in Paris for the 2012 Olympics.

We trade citizenship of our Sec'y of the Treasury upon taking office
renounces his American citizenship and takes a French citizenship.

Quoted message said:

. Therefore, I identify the
jingoistic anti French Armstrong supporters

What about the jingoistic anti-French, anyone-but-Lance supporters ?