Another WLS tragedy

In article <[email hidden]>,
Myra <[email hidden]> wrote:

<snipped useless tragedy>

Quoted message said:

There are well over 200 replies on that thread so far tonight. Tammy
was a well loved FReeper who will be very much missed by her family,
friends and fellow FReepers. Her user name was TexasFlower.

Myra

Condolences indeed to her family... :-(
My doctor offered it to me and my insurance would have covered the cost,
but I turned her down.

I know it's helped thousands of people, but LC has helped millions!
It's such a dangerous procedure and if I'm not mistaken, the death rate
is about 5%.

That's pretty damned high.......

Take care!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

Myra said:

I'm not just involved in low carbing, but I'm also an active member of
Free Republic (among other places). The following was posted tonight.
Tammy was 46 years old - about 6 months older than I am. I know that
there are people here who may be contemplating having WLS, and I also
know that most of folks here who know me know exactly what I think
about it. Tammy left behind two teenage daughters.

To those of you contemplating WLS, I beg you - PLEASE DON'T DO IT.
There are worse things than being fat - like being dead. And, believe
me, if I can lose 175 pounds WITHOUT surgery, you can, too. I'm no
miracle - just a regular human being with all the faults and
weaknesses that all human beings have. I have had long, long stalls,
regains, made mistakes, eaten too much, occasionally gone off plan -
in short, all the things that could be screwed up, I *have* screwed
up. Yet here I am, still plugging away, still losing and still
determined not to ever surgically mess with my digestive system.

Anyway, here's the post from Tammy's sister:

"Hi ~ I wanted to let you know that my dear sister, Tammy, passed away
unexpectedly on June 30th. She had gastric bypass surgery on June 27,
came home from the hospital on June 29th and passed away in the early
morning hours of June 30th.

I'm not exactly sure of Tammy's username (something like
"texaswarriorprincess"😉 Tammy often talked about her involvement in
this site and our family felt we should notify you of her death.

We lost our Dad in October, 2004. I know Tammy shared the news w/ you
of my Dad voting prior to his death. He voted from the back of an
ambulance while in hospice care.

We are shocked and deeply saddened by her sudden death. She is
survived by our Mom, 2 sisters, one brother, and her two daughters.

Please pray for our family."

There are well over 200 replies on that thread so far tonight. Tammy
was a well loved FReeper who will be very much missed by her family,
friends and fellow FReepers. Her user name was TexasFlower.

Myra

This is so sad, Myra. Although Tammy may have had
the best intentions in her mind, her family and
friends now have nothing. There are others to
consider, besides yourself, when thinking about WLS.

Marsha/Ohio

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

I know it's helped thousands of people, but LC has helped millions!
It's such a dangerous procedure and if I'm not mistaken, the death rate
is about 5%.

The long-term mortality rate is much higher, but you need to really
talk to the doctors to get this information.

Myra

Myra said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

I know it's helped thousands of people, but LC has helped millions!
It's such a dangerous procedure and if I'm not mistaken, the death rate
is about 5%.

The long-term mortality rate is much higher, but you need to really
talk to the doctors to get this information.

Myra

*** grossness below ***

It's hardly representative, but I have two clients in my
psychotherapy caseload who have had gastric bypass or whatever, and
both have had complications. Both have been in and out of the hospital
because of it, and one of the complications included (ahem) fecal
evacuation from the mouth.

Disturbing.

Quoted message said:

Myra said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

I know it's helped thousands of people, but LC has helped millions!
It's such a dangerous procedure and if I'm not mistaken, the death rate
is about 5%.

The long-term mortality rate is much higher, but you need to really
talk to the doctors to get this information.

Myra

*** grossness below ***

It's hardly representative, but I have two clients in my
psychotherapy caseload who have had gastric bypass or whatever, and
both have had complications. Both have been in and out of the hospital
because of it, and one of the complications included (ahem) fecal
evacuation from the mouth.

Disturbing.

omg --

Well, if the original post didn't get anyone's attention, I'll bet this
one will.

--
July Goals: BG readings in normal range; Not hungry, don't eat
Weight: 16 Pounds Gone (6 of them twice) 06/12/2005
Measurements: 8 inches gone 06/19/2005
Cholesterol: 145
FBG: < 100 since 07/01/2005 A1c 6.5

Thats is truly tragic. We all know going in this is something to not
take lightly. There are risks and death and complications obviously
occur. I myself was willing to take the chance and knew the odds were
in my favor of pulling through this. The odds are increasing in
surgical patients favor but the risk is there and surgery does go
wrong. I was dying anyway so it didnt matter to me. I was desperate and
wont deny it one bit. I did opt for the less dramatic Proximal RNY
procedure so I dont suffer with the SEVERE malnutrition and [censored] like
people who have the distal Roux En Y.

I have made a good friend in my local WLS support group and she had
surgery the middle of June at the University of Washington She came
home on day 5 and was doing ok. On the following Fri. I took her for
blood work, to the doc, and went and bought her puree groceries for
her. I fixed her some mashed spuds, visited with her and left. By Sat
afternoon she was feeling weak and having pain in her shoulder area.
Her S.O. took her to the hospital here in town and they thought she had
pneumonia. When she didnt get better and the MRI showed something bad
she was put in an ambulance and shipped back to U of W. She had had a
post op heart attack and has a leak at her anastosmosis where the
intestine is attached to the bottom of her pouch. They tapped her
abdomen and got bloody fluid so she had peritonitis too!!!!!!! OMG
huh??? They can't do surgery to fix it because her heart wont take it
so they are hoping she will seal off herself!!!!! Now this too is WLS
gone wrong and she is still at the U of W. It is all unfortunate and it
is really a sad situation.

Laureen
410/285/180
WLS 1/31/2005

Myra said:

I'm not just involved in low carbing, but I'm also an active member of
Free Republic (among other places). The following was posted tonight.
Tammy was 46 years old - about 6 months older than I am. I know that
there are people here who may be contemplating having WLS, and I also
know that most of folks here who know me know exactly what I think
about it. Tammy left behind two teenage daughters.

To those of you contemplating WLS, I beg you - PLEASE DON'T DO IT.
There are worse things than being fat - like being dead. And, believe
me, if I can lose 175 pounds WITHOUT surgery, you can, too. I'm no
miracle - just a regular human being with all the faults and
weaknesses that all human beings have. I have had long, long stalls,
regains, made mistakes, eaten too much, occasionally gone off plan -
in short, all the things that could be screwed up, I *have* screwed
up. Yet here I am, still plugging away, still losing and still
determined not to ever surgically mess with my digestive system.

Anyway, here's the post from Tammy's sister:

"Hi ~ I wanted to let you know that my dear sister, Tammy, passed away
unexpectedly on June 30th. She had gastric bypass surgery on June 27,
came home from the hospital on June 29th and passed away in the early
morning hours of June 30th.

I'm not exactly sure of Tammy's username (something like
"texaswarriorprincess"😉 Tammy often talked about her involvement in
this site and our family felt we should notify you of her death.

We lost our Dad in October, 2004. I know Tammy shared the news w/ you
of my Dad voting prior to his death. He voted from the back of an
ambulance while in hospice care.

We are shocked and deeply saddened by her sudden death. She is
survived by our Mom, 2 sisters, one brother, and her two daughters.

Please pray for our family."

There are well over 200 replies on that thread so far tonight. Tammy
was a well loved FReeper who will be very much missed by her family,
friends and fellow FReepers. Her user name was TexasFlower.

Myra

In article <[email hidden]>,

Laureen said:

Thats is truly tragic. We all know going in this is something to not
take lightly. There are risks and death and complications obviously
occur. I myself was willing to take the chance and knew the odds were
in my favor of pulling through this. The odds are increasing in
surgical patients favor but the risk is there and surgery does go
wrong. I was dying anyway so it didnt matter to me. I was desperate and
wont deny it one bit. I did opt for the less dramatic Proximal RNY
procedure so I dont suffer with the SEVERE malnutrition and [censored] like
people who have the distal Roux En Y.

I have made a good friend in my local WLS support group and she had
surgery the middle of June at the University of Washington She came
home on day 5 and was doing ok. On the following Fri. I took her for
blood work, to the doc, and went and bought her puree groceries for
her. I fixed her some mashed spuds, visited with her and left. By Sat
afternoon she was feeling weak and having pain in her shoulder area.
Her S.O. took her to the hospital here in town and they thought she had
pneumonia. When she didnt get better and the MRI showed something bad
she was put in an ambulance and shipped back to U of W. She had had a
post op heart attack and has a leak at her anastosmosis where the
intestine is attached to the bottom of her pouch. They tapped her
abdomen and got bloody fluid so she had peritonitis too!!!!!!! OMG
huh??? They can't do surgery to fix it because her heart wont take it
so they are hoping she will seal off herself!!!!! Now this too is WLS
gone wrong and she is still at the U of W. It is all unfortunate and it
is really a sad situation.

Laureen
410/285/180
WLS 1/31/2005

With a leak and peritonitis, she is probably going to die... :-(
Please keep us posted!

I just hope that _anyone_ considering doing this at least makes up a
good will!

I hate sloppy surgeons!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

"I hate sloppy surgeons! "

And why do you assume a bad outcome is the surgeons fault? You don't
know what the facts are. Just because some operation doesn't have the
desired outcome, doesn't mean the surgeon did anything wrong.

Myra wrote:

| | To those of you contemplating WLS, I beg you - PLEASE DON'T DO IT.
| | There are worse things than being fat - like being dead. .
| |
| | Myra

Rubbish.

One can present worst-case scenarios with any procedure and give the same
grossly exagerated impression. Believe it or not, there are some
intelligent folks on this NG who actually think for themselves and don't
fall for these sophomoric scare tactics.

Using your logic, one could also say:
"- To those of you who are contemplating driving, I beg you - PLEASE DON'T
DO IT because many people are horribly mutilated and killed in car
accidents --You can walk and get there safely without driving. There are
worse things than being late -- like being dead."

Doctors recommend WLS as a last resort for their patients who face greater
mortal danger from their morbid obesity. They recommend and exhaust other
means of weight loss first. The surgery (as Laureen can attest) is done
only after detailed evaluation of the individual and his/her situation.
They are given psychological counseling. The patient is made aware of the
risks involved vs. the benefits. It is not a simple procdure and it
involves months of diets afterward of no solid foods. People who endure WLS
know what they are getting into -- armed with FAR more information than your
second-hand anecdotal stories. Your post reminds me of the trolls who pop
in here once in a while and scream that whatever we do, we should NOT eat a
low-carb diet because it will cause our kidneys to fail and our ultimate
demise.

I have no real personal opinion of WLS one way or the other, and don't know
if I could or would endure it myself whatever the situation. I just know
that I hate when people try to foist their ignorance and dogma on others.
You'd rather that someone listen to your hysteria than make an informed
decision about something so important? Who are you that you feel that you
can judge others' desicions without even knowing them?

--
Peter

Marengo said:

Myra wrote:

| | To those of you contemplating WLS, I beg you - PLEASE DON'T DO IT.
| | There are worse things than being fat - like being dead. .
| |
| | Myra

Rubbish.

One can present worst-case scenarios with any procedure and give the same
grossly exagerated impression. Believe it or not, there are some
intelligent folks on this NG who actually think for themselves and don't
fall for these sophomoric scare tactics.

Using your logic, one could also say:
"- To those of you who are contemplating driving, I beg you - PLEASE DON'T
DO IT because many people are horribly mutilated and killed in car
accidents --You can walk and get there safely without driving. There are
worse things than being late -- like being dead."

Bad example. For some, driving is their only mode
of transportation. WLS is elective. Anyone can
lose weight far more safely by dieting.

Quoted message said:

Doctors recommend WLS as a last resort for their patients who face greater
mortal danger from their morbid obesity. They recommend and exhaust other
means of weight loss first.

All that risk for something that's not guaranteed.
IMO, if you can't stick to any diet, you're not
likely to succeed long-term with WLS.

Quoted message said:

They are given psychological counseling. The patient is made aware of the
risks involved vs. the benefits. It is not a simple procdure and it
involves months of diets afterward of no solid foods. People who endure WLS
know what they are getting into -- armed with FAR more information than your
second-hand anecdotal stories.

People only hear what they want to hear re: risks
of any surgery. You would be surprised at the
number of open-heart surgery patients who cannot
remember most of what they were told preop. If
someone told you that you had a 10% chance of
morbidity or mortality with unnecessary surgery,
would you honestly say "Wow, those are pretty good
odds", instead of thinking that you may be one of
those 10% who die?

Quoted message said:

if I could or would endure it myself whatever the situation. I just know
that I hate when people try to foist their ignorance and dogma on others.
You'd rather that someone listen to your hysteria than make an informed
decision about something so important? Who are you that you feel that you
can judge others' desicions without even knowing them?

It's an opinion. Debate it with a reasonable
amount of intelligence or get over it.

Marsha/Ohio

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

"I hate sloppy surgeons! "

And why do you assume a bad outcome is the surgeons fault? You don't
know what the facts are. Just because some operation doesn't have the
desired outcome, doesn't mean the surgeon did anything wrong.

If her intestine is leaking, that's sloppy surgery...
Just my 2 cents! :-P

You are more than welcome to another opinion.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Marsha said:

All that risk for something that's not guaranteed.
IMO, if you can't stick to any diet, you're not
likely to succeed long-term with WLS.

<applause!!!>

I agree 100%!

GPS was offered to me, and I turned it down.
I felt I could benefit from drugs and diet instead.

And so far, so good...

All GPS really does is force you to eat smaller meals anyway, that and
it bypasses a part of the small intestine so you absorb fewer calories.

Thru strict dieting, I've drastically reduced the amount of food I can
eat naturally. It's interesting how the stomach will shrink on it's own?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

"Marengo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:QshAe.44687$rb6.37617@lakeread07...

Quoted message said:

I have no real personal opinion of WLS one way or the other, and don't

know

Quoted message said:

if I could or would endure it myself whatever the situation. I just know
that I hate when people try to foist their ignorance and dogma on others.
You'd rather that someone listen to your hysteria than make an informed
decision about something so important? Who are you that you feel that you
can judge others' desicions without even knowing them?

Others have to protect us from ourselves, don'tcha know...such weighty
decisions can't be left in the hands of the person involved - better that a
stranger on usenet use try to use their perceived influence on the patient
rather than their doctor...
--
Sherry
364/315/195
low carb since 4/3/05
http://lowcarb.owly.net - NEW PICS 6/30 - NEW RECIPES 7/4

"Marengo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:QshAe.44687$rb6.37617@lakeread07...

Quoted message said:

Myra wrote:

| | To those of you contemplating WLS, I beg you - PLEASE DON'T DO IT.
| | There are worse things than being fat - like being dead. .
| |
| | Myra

Rubbish.

One can present worst-case scenarios with any procedure and give the same
grossly exagerated impression. Believe it or not, there are some
intelligent folks on this NG who actually think for themselves and don't
fall for these sophomoric scare tactics.

Using your logic, one could also say:
"- To those of you who are contemplating driving, I beg you - PLEASE
DON'T DO IT because many people are horribly mutilated and killed in car
accidents --You can walk and get there safely without driving. There are
worse things than being late -- like being dead."

Doctors recommend WLS as a last resort for their patients who face
greater mortal danger from their morbid obesity. They recommend and
exhaust other means of weight loss first. The surgery (as Laureen can
attest) is done only after detailed evaluation of the individual and
his/her situation. They are given psychological counseling. The patient
is made aware of the risks involved vs. the benefits. It is not a simple
procdure and it involves months of diets afterward of no solid foods.
People who endure WLS know what they are getting into -- armed with FAR
more information than your second-hand anecdotal stories.

You might like to think this but a woman that works with DH just had WLS.
She barely met the weight requiement and her and her doctor flubbed her
height by an inch or so to make it work. Anyway - the woman decided to go
for WLS because, in her words - she "can't stick to a diet"

A week after returning to work DH thinks he saw her eating potato chips, i
don't see how that would be "allowed" but WTF do I know about it.

In my opinion this woman and her doctor are both morons.

Your post reminds me of the trolls who pop

Quoted message said:

in here once in a while and scream that whatever we do, we should NOT eat
a low-carb diet because it will cause our kidneys to fail and our ultimate
demise.

I have no real personal opinion of WLS one way or the other, and don't
know if I could or would endure it myself whatever the situation. I just
know that I hate when people try to foist their ignorance and dogma on
others. You'd rather that someone listen to your hysteria than make an
informed decision about something so important? Who are you that you feel
that you can judge others' desicions without even knowing them?

--
Peter

Funny you should mention potato chips. We had a lady in our support
group mention she made a recipe with a crushed potato chip topping andd
us she polished off the crumbs in the bag and it didnt bother her. I
was like WTF?? I looked right at her and told her "C's are not low fat
low carb or nutritious. NoChippy Chips Jeannnie!!!!!"Good Gawd. Then
she complains because she has only lost 35 pounds since March.
Hello??????? The surgery wasnt frickin magic, it was a tool.
The moderator of the group called me to get her number as I have all
the member
info like that on a roster, and I think she talked to her. I was like
DUH!!!!!!!!!
Laureen

nanner said:

"Marengo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:QshAe.44687$rb6.37617@lakeread07...

Quoted message said:

Myra wrote:

| | To those of you contemplating WLS, I beg you - PLEASE DON'T DO IT.
| | There are worse things than being fat - like being dead. .
| |
| | Myra

Rubbish.

One can present worst-case scenarios with any procedure and give the same
grossly exagerated impression. Believe it or not, there are some
intelligent folks on this NG who actually think for themselves and don't
fall for these sophomoric scare tactics.

Using your logic, one could also say:
"- To those of you who are contemplating driving, I beg you - PLEASE
DON'T DO IT because many people are horribly mutilated and killed in car
accidents --You can walk and get there safely without driving. There are
worse things than being late -- like being dead."

Doctors recommend WLS as a last resort for their patients who face
greater mortal danger from their morbid obesity. They recommend and
exhaust other means of weight loss first. The surgery (as Laureen can
attest) is done only after detailed evaluation of the individual and
his/her situation. They are given psychological counseling. The patient
is made aware of the risks involved vs. the benefits. It is not a simple
procdure and it involves months of diets afterward of no solid foods.
People who endure WLS know what they are getting into -- armed with FAR
more information than your second-hand anecdotal stories.

You might like to think this but a woman that works with DH just had WLS.
She barely met the weight requiement and her and her doctor flubbed her
height by an inch or so to make it work. Anyway - the woman decided to go
for WLS because, in her words - she "can't stick to a diet"

A week after returning to work DH thinks he saw her eating potato chips, i
don't see how that would be "allowed" but WTF do I know about it.

In my opinion this woman and her doctor are both morons.

Your post reminds me of the trolls who pop

Quoted message said:

in here once in a while and scream that whatever we do, we should NOT eat
a low-carb diet because it will cause our kidneys to fail and our ultimate
demise.

I have no real personal opinion of WLS one way or the other, and don't
know if I could or would endure it myself whatever the situation. I just
know that I hate when people try to foist their ignorance and dogma on
others. You'd rather that someone listen to your hysteria than make an
informed decision about something so important? Who are you that you feel
that you can judge others' desicions without even knowing them?

--
Peter

"Laureen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Funny you should mention potato chips. We had a lady in our support
group mention she made a recipe with a crushed potato chip topping andd
us she polished off the crumbs in the bag and it didnt bother her. I
was like WTF?? I looked right at her and told her "C's are not low fat
low carb or nutritious. NoChippy Chips Jeannnie!!!!!"Good Gawd. Then
she complains because she has only lost 35 pounds since March.
Hello??????? The surgery wasnt frickin magic, it was a tool.
The moderator of the group called me to get her number as I have all
the member
info like that on a roster, and I think she talked to her. I was like
DUH!!!!!!!!!
Laureen

I'm just sad for this lady because if I understand correctly she's starting
on a hard life-long "diet" after the GPS, no?
You've done so well, it's great - but you were also very heavy and had some
very serious reasons for doing it, this woman was "borderline" and everyone
was surprised she was doing it. Crazy if you ask me!!

Can she hurt herself? If she thinks it's ok to eat garbage when no one is
looking what will happen to her?

Quoted message said:

nanner said:

"Marengo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:QshAe.44687$rb6.37617@lakeread07...

Quoted message said:

Myra wrote:

| | To those of you contemplating WLS, I beg you - PLEASE DON'T DO IT.
| | There are worse things than being fat - like being dead. .
| |
| | Myra

Rubbish.

One can present worst-case scenarios with any procedure and give the
same
grossly exagerated impression. Believe it or not, there are some
intelligent folks on this NG who actually think for themselves and
don't
fall for these sophomoric scare tactics.

Using your logic, one could also say:
"- To those of you who are contemplating driving, I beg you - PLEASE
DON'T DO IT because many people are horribly mutilated and killed in
car
accidents --You can walk and get there safely without driving. There
are
worse things than being late -- like being dead."

Doctors recommend WLS as a last resort for their patients who face
greater mortal danger from their morbid obesity. They recommend and
exhaust other means of weight loss first. The surgery (as Laureen can
attest) is done only after detailed evaluation of the individual and
his/her situation. They are given psychological counseling. The
patient
is made aware of the risks involved vs. the benefits. It is not a
simple
procdure and it involves months of diets afterward of no solid foods.
People who endure WLS know what they are getting into -- armed with FAR
more information than your second-hand anecdotal stories.

You might like to think this but a woman that works with DH just had WLS.
She barely met the weight requiement and her and her doctor flubbed her
height by an inch or so to make it work. Anyway - the woman decided to
go
for WLS because, in her words - she "can't stick to a diet"

A week after returning to work DH thinks he saw her eating potato chips,
i
don't see how that would be "allowed" but WTF do I know about it.

In my opinion this woman and her doctor are both morons.

Your post reminds me of the trolls who pop

Quoted message said:

in here once in a while and scream that whatever we do, we should NOT
eat
a low-carb diet because it will cause our kidneys to fail and our
ultimate
demise.

I have no real personal opinion of WLS one way or the other, and don't
know if I could or would endure it myself whatever the situation. I
just
know that I hate when people try to foist their ignorance and dogma on
others. You'd rather that someone listen to your hysteria than make an
informed decision about something so important? Who are you that you
feel
that you can judge others' desicions without even knowing them?

--
Peter

Quoted message said:

It's hardly representative, but I have two clients in my
psychotherapy caseload who have had gastric bypass or whatever, and
both have had complications. Both have been in and out of the hospital
because of it, and one of the complications included (ahem) fecal
evacuation from the mouth.

If I recall my 11th grade biology teacher correctly, I think that's
called reverse perastalsis [sp?].

Yes, very gross.

When I had my plastic surgery consult last month, the doctor told me
he hates WLS with a passion, and the 5-year mortality rate is still
close to 30%.

Myra

Marsha said:

It's an opinion. Debate it with a reasonable
amount of intelligence or get over it.

Marsha,

Thank you. You "get" it. And, unlike Peter unfortunately, my opinion
is based on far more information than his.

His post came out of a desire to be protective of someone here who
doesn't happen to be the target of what I was writing about anyway. I
understand that, but it doesn't make him right.

Myra

Laureen said:

Funny you should mention potato chips. We had a lady in our support
group mention she made a recipe with a crushed potato chip topping andd
us she polished off the crumbs in the bag and it didnt bother her. I
was like WTF?? I looked right at her and told her "C's are not low fat
low carb or nutritious. NoChippy Chips Jeannnie!!!!!"

Interesting.

That's what JC would have said.

Good Gawd. Then

Quoted message said:

she complains because she has only lost 35 pounds since March.
Hello??????? The surgery wasnt frickin magic, it was a tool.
The moderator of the group called me to get her number as I have all
the member
info like that on a roster, and I think she talked to her. I was like
DUH!!!!!!!!!
Laureen