Another update on my winter bike search

Preston Crawford said:

Cross-posting this time, at the behest of others in a previous
thread. I'm not sure which is worse, so please be understanding if
you're in the "never cross-post" camp, as I generally am.

FWIW, IMO posting to multiple /appropriate/ groups isn't really
"cross-posting" -- which, to me, is either adding groups TO an existing
thread, or blathering off-topic [censored] to a variety of newsgroups. (Think
Mike V@ndem@n and/or P@yP@l sp@ms.) Since you regularly participate in both
groups, that's an additional mitigating factor.

(Just noticed I hit "Reply Group", but only .misc appeared in To: field.
Weird. Will add .tech "manually".)

With that

Quoted message said:

said, here's the update. Sorry for the length. It's just too good a
story not to tell, considering how helpful this shop has been.

{story snipped}

Hold on to that bike shop like grim death. (And buy 'em a case of beer when
all sorted out.)

We should all be so fortunate!
--
BS (no, really)

Bill Sornson said:

Preston Crawford said:

Cross-posting this time, at the behest of others in a previous
thread. I'm not sure which is worse, so please be understanding if
you're in the "never cross-post" camp, as I generally am.

FWIW, IMO posting to multiple /appropriate/ groups isn't really
"cross-posting" -- which, to me, is either adding groups TO an existing
thread, or blathering off-topic [censored] to a variety of newsgroups. (Think
Mike V@ndem@n and/or P@yP@l sp@ms.) Since you regularly participate in both
groups, that's an additional mitigating factor.

Some would disagree. I see where both sides are coming from, but I've seen
enough flaming WRT cross-posting that I've generally avoided it until
today.

Quoted message said:

(Just noticed I hit "Reply Group", but only .misc appeared in To: field.
Weird. Will add .tech "manually".)

Oh, thanks. I must have forgotten to add that (I use Linux, so my news
reader didn't add that for me and I forgot to add it myself).

Quoted message said:

With that

Quoted message said:

said, here's the update. Sorry for the length. It's just too good a
story not to tell, considering how helpful this shop has been.

{story snipped}

Hold on to that bike shop like grim death. (And buy 'em a case of beer when
all sorted out.)

Definitely. Quite amazing in times like these to get that kind of service.

Preston

Preston Crawford said:

Quoted message said:

Hold on to that bike shop like grim death. (And buy 'em a case of beer when
all sorted out.)

Definitely. Quite amazing in times like these to get that kind of service.

Preston

Sound like great guys. Often guys in bike shops will go out of their way
to make things more than right when it's a bike that they find
interesting, or it's a potential learning experience. It's a slow time of
year, investing their time in your problem, is both fun compared to other
mundane shop tasks, and potentially good for business--I'll certainly shop
there the next time I'm in Portland. :P

When I was looking for a Shimano DX cog for my single a while back, they
begged me to bring in my bike so we could share notes. I spent five bucks
and an hour gabbing with the wrenches. It works both ways. 😉

Preston Crawford said:

Cross-posting this time, at the behest of others in a previous thread. I'm
not sure which is worse, so please be understanding if you're in the
"never cross-post" camp, as I generally am. With that said, here's the
update. Sorry for the length. It's just too good a story not to tell,
considering how helpful this shop has been. It's that whole idea about not
telling enough about the good things people do for you. So here goes...

So this new LBS I've been dealing with, that has just stunned me with
their ability to work with me and be very generous with their help (i.e.
swapping out parts, doing labor for free, without asking, things I'm
definitely not used to) has two shops in Portland. They used to be called
Gateway Bicycles. Now they're called Speedzone. So I called up the owner
at the main store in Portland and he said that it sounded like either (A)
I wasn't fit right yet and (B) I probably DID need a triple in the front
and that he wished someone had mentioned the Volpe as he personally
thought anyone going long distances might struggle with the Castro
Valley's 9 gears. So he asked me to come in and this is what happened.

I took the Castro Valley and first he put me up on the trainer, made some
mental notes and then proceeded to have his mechanics begin adding the
triple. Meanwhile he put me up on the trainer with my current bike to look
at the difference and where I was currently. For point of reference I'm
6'1" with a 30-inch pants inseam (not sure what my cycling inseam is) and
my current bike is a 58cm Trek 1000.

So anyway, he seemed concerned about the saddle on the Castro Valley and
so we proceeded to look for a saddle that was better fitting (i.e. more
narrow as that's how I like to ride). Found a good Specialized, then part
way through getting the triple on the mechanics realized there was only a
single braze-on for the Castro Valley. So they'd have to do some trickery
to run the cabling for the front derailleur. This is where things once
again get into "I'm not used to getting treated this well" land.

So he basically said we need to scrap this. This bike isn't going to work.
He pulled a 55cm Bianchi Volpe (same frame, but with the braze-on, as the
Castro Valley). He did more measurements of the bike, me, etc. and he said
that (A) the Trek 1000 wasn't exactly 57 for starters and (B) the reason I
needed the funky quill setup was probably because I had the wrong size on
my current bike to begin with. So basically without me so much as asking
he took everything I wanted off the Castro Valley that I'd had put on
(computer, suicide levers, wider handlebars, etc.) and put them on the
Volpe.

And keep in mind, this is all happening for free. I've never experienced
this before. Usually shops I go to charge for most things that are done
and I'm more than willing to pay for it, but he just had them do the work,
without question. They got the Volpe setup, put the new saddle, fenders
on, so basically the Volpe became the same bike as the Castro Valley,
minus the dynamo and the light. He also, without prompting, asking, etc.
switched out the bigger tires on the Volpe for the smaller slicks that
come with the Castro Valley.

So, after it was all said and done, they spent about 3 hours helping fit
me, work on trying to get the right bike put together and when it turned
out the Castro Valley I'd purchased wasn't going to work with a triple,
rather than throw it back to me, he (without hesitation) got me into a
different bike and then given the chance took the time to try to get the
fit better. His opinion being that I was leaning too far on my current
bike and that a 55cm would be a better fit. Especially because I wouldn't
need to do anything funky to get the right height + extension on the
handlebars.

It was quite the whirlwind and when it was done he basically said "let me
know how that works out, good or bad, in the next couple days". I think
them all profusely and headed home.

Quite the odd experience to be treated so well and with such detail. I
ride the bike today for the first time, but given how much effort he put
into trying to put together the right bike for me I'm optimistic this is
going to go well. I'll update after I get a chance to ride it a few times.
Clearly, though, he put a lot of effort into figuring out the size, where
I was at with my current bike, etc. He had a Volpe 58 on hand and was
basically willing to stake the fact I may have to return this for the 58,
on his reading that the 55 would be a better fit anyway.

Anyway, very nice people. Very generous for a bike shop to go to those
lengths to help you, almost without you having to ask or say anything.

Preston

Do you love the off road snowbiking? Best wheels are
http://www.allweathersports.com/winter/snowcats.html

They dominate this race
http://www.alaskaultrasport.com/
maybe you could enter next year.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:03:18 -0600, Mike Schwab <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Preston Crawford said:

Quite the odd experience to be treated so well and with such detail. I
ride the bike today for the first time, but given how much effort he put
into trying to put together the right bike for me I'm optimistic this is
going to go well. I'll update after I get a chance to ride it a few times.
Clearly, though, he put a lot of effort into figuring out the size, where
I was at with my current bike, etc. He had a Volpe 58 on hand and was
basically willing to stake the fact I may have to return this for the 58,
on his reading that the 55 would be a better fit anyway.

Anyway, very nice people. Very generous for a bike shop to go to those
lengths to help you, almost without you having to ask or say anything.

Preston

I saw you mention elsewhere something about getting a triple put on
and thought to myself, 'gee, he's going to have a Volpe with fenders
and a dynamo....'

Any local bike lists? Do what you can to get the word out about this
shop. Go to the Portland craig's list and put a message on the bike
section!

Quoted message said:

So he basically said we need to scrap this. This bike isn't going to work.
He pulled a 55cm Bianchi Volpe (same frame, but with the braze-on, as the
Castro Valley). He did more measurements of the bike, me, etc. and he said
that (A) the Trek 1000 wasn't exactly 57 for starters and (B) the reason I
needed the funky quill setup was probably because I had the wrong size on
my current bike to begin with. So basically without me so much as asking
he took everything I wanted off the Castro Valley that I'd had put on
(computer, suicide levers, wider handlebars, etc.) and put them on the
Volpe.

Preston: My only concern is with your height (6'1"😉 and the frame size
(55cm). I assume that Bianchi measures center-to-center, so a 55 would be
close to a 57-58cm if measured as Trek does, but even then that's a pretty
small size for someone your height, with the main issue being getting the
handlebars high enough. I don't sell Bianchi though, so it could be that the
model in question has a much-higher-than-normal front end, allowing the bars
to be high enough for comfort.

Just curious, how much drop is there presently from the saddle to the
handlebar? Easiest way to measure this is the difference between the ground
and the top of the saddle vs the ground to the top of the handlebars. Too
much drop is the sort of thing that might not show up immediately, but could
be an issue down the road, especially on longer rides.

Having said all that, it seems that the guy is going to a lot of trouble
trying to make things right for you, so it's likely that things are going in
the right direction (and, after all, he's there, I'm not, so it could be one
of those things where it's obvious looking at you on a bike, even though the
numbers don't add up).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Preston Crawford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cross-posting this time, at the behest of others in a previous thread. I'm
not sure which is worse, so please be understanding if you're in the
"never cross-post" camp, as I generally am. With that said, here's the
update. Sorry for the length. It's just too good a story not to tell,
considering how helpful this shop has been. It's that whole idea about not
telling enough about the good things people do for you. So here goes...

So this new LBS I've been dealing with, that has just stunned me with
their ability to work with me and be very generous with their help (i.e.
swapping out parts, doing labor for free, without asking, things I'm
definitely not used to) has two shops in Portland. They used to be called
Gateway Bicycles. Now they're called Speedzone. So I called up the owner
at the main store in Portland and he said that it sounded like either (A)
I wasn't fit right yet and (B) I probably DID need a triple in the front
and that he wished someone had mentioned the Volpe as he personally
thought anyone going long distances might struggle with the Castro
Valley's 9 gears. So he asked me to come in and this is what happened.

I took the Castro Valley and first he put me up on the trainer, made some
mental notes and then proceeded to have his mechanics begin adding the
triple. Meanwhile he put me up on the trainer with my current bike to look
at the difference and where I was currently. For point of reference I'm
6'1" with a 30-inch pants inseam (not sure what my cycling inseam is) and
my current bike is a 58cm Trek 1000.

So anyway, he seemed concerned about the saddle on the Castro Valley and
so we proceeded to look for a saddle that was better fitting (i.e. more
narrow as that's how I like to ride). Found a good Specialized, then part
way through getting the triple on the mechanics realized there was only a
single braze-on for the Castro Valley. So they'd have to do some trickery
to run the cabling for the front derailleur. This is where things once
again get into "I'm not used to getting treated this well" land.

So he basically said we need to scrap this. This bike isn't going to work.
He pulled a 55cm Bianchi Volpe (same frame, but with the braze-on, as the
Castro Valley). He did more measurements of the bike, me, etc. and he said
that (A) the Trek 1000 wasn't exactly 57 for starters and (B) the reason I
needed the funky quill setup was probably because I had the wrong size on
my current bike to begin with. So basically without me so much as asking
he took everything I wanted off the Castro Valley that I'd had put on
(computer, suicide levers, wider handlebars, etc.) and put them on the
Volpe.

And keep in mind, this is all happening for free. I've never experienced
this before. Usually shops I go to charge for most things that are done
and I'm more than willing to pay for it, but he just had them do the work,
without question. They got the Volpe setup, put the new saddle, fenders
on, so basically the Volpe became the same bike as the Castro Valley,
minus the dynamo and the light. He also, without prompting, asking, etc.
switched out the bigger tires on the Volpe for the smaller slicks that
come with the Castro Valley.

So, after it was all said and done, they spent about 3 hours helping fit
me, work on trying to get the right bike put together and when it turned
out the Castro Valley I'd purchased wasn't going to work with a triple,
rather than throw it back to me, he (without hesitation) got me into a
different bike and then given the chance took the time to try to get the
fit better. His opinion being that I was leaning too far on my current
bike and that a 55cm would be a better fit. Especially because I wouldn't
need to do anything funky to get the right height + extension on the
handlebars.

It was quite the whirlwind and when it was done he basically said "let me
know how that works out, good or bad, in the next couple days". I think
them all profusely and headed home.

Quite the odd experience to be treated so well and with such detail. I
ride the bike today for the first time, but given how much effort he put
into trying to put together the right bike for me I'm optimistic this is
going to go well. I'll update after I get a chance to ride it a few times.
Clearly, though, he put a lot of effort into figuring out the size, where
I was at with my current bike, etc. He had a Volpe 58 on hand and was
basically willing to stake the fact I may have to return this for the 58,
on his reading that the 55 would be a better fit anyway.

Anyway, very nice people. Very generous for a bike shop to go to those
lengths to help you, almost without you having to ask or say anything.

Preston

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

So he basically said we need to scrap this. This bike isn't going to work.
He pulled a 55cm Bianchi Volpe (same frame, but with the braze-on, as the
Castro Valley). He did more measurements of the bike, me, etc. and he said
that (A) the Trek 1000 wasn't exactly 57 for starters and (B) the reason I
needed the funky quill setup was probably because I had the wrong size on
my current bike to begin with. So basically without me so much as asking
he took everything I wanted off the Castro Valley that I'd had put on
(computer, suicide levers, wider handlebars, etc.) and put them on the
Volpe.

Preston: My only concern is with your height (6'1"😉 and the frame size
(55cm). I assume that Bianchi measures center-to-center, so a 55 would be
close to a 57-58cm if measured as Trek does, but even then that's a pretty
small size for someone your height, with the main issue being getting the
handlebars high enough. I don't sell Bianchi though, so it could be that the
model in question has a much-higher-than-normal front end, allowing the bars
to be high enough for comfort.

Like I said, though, I'm 6'1" with a long torso. If that makes a
difference.

Quoted message said:

Just curious, how much drop is there presently from the saddle to the
handlebar? Easiest way to measure this is the difference between the ground
and the top of the saddle vs the ground to the top of the handlebars. Too
much drop is the sort of thing that might not show up immediately, but could
be an issue down the road, especially on longer rides.

Actually there is no drop on either bike. They both are even straight
across. My original fit on the Trek put me at needing a handlebar height
at the same level as my seat. So they found the best bike, in their
opinion, that can manage that kind of geometry. We'll see tomorrow how it
works.

Quoted message said:

Having said all that, it seems that the guy is going to a lot of trouble
trying to make things right for you, so it's likely that things are going in
the right direction (and, after all, he's there, I'm not, so it could be one
of those things where it's obvious looking at you on a bike, even though the
numbers don't add up).

Are you sure about that? Remembering again that I have a size 30 inseam
(as measured for clothes). I have pretty short legs compared to my upper
body. From what I've read, that's about right for a 55, remember that it
lays out another couple CM with the stem. Whereas on my current bike, as
illustrated in the picture I posted...

http://www.prestoncrawford.com/album/images/fitting.jpg

....my quill stem goes straight up and out 0 inches, basically. So I have a
58, but no reach beyond that. So shouldn't a 55 with a couple inches of
reach be close? And this is assuming the 58 is optimum fit. The owner
seemed to think not.

Preston

:
: Preston: My only concern is with your height (6'1"😉 and the frame size
: (55cm). I assume that Bianchi measures center-to-center, so a 55 would be
: close to a 57-58cm if measured as Trek does, but even then that's a pretty
: small size for someone your height, with the main issue being getting the
: handlebars high enough. I don't sell Bianchi though, so it could be that
the
: model in question has a much-higher-than-normal front end, allowing the
bars
: to be high enough for comfort.

My Bianchi brochure has this:

The sizing for road frames is based on the measurement from the center of
the bottom bracket to the imaginary top of the seat tube if the top tube
were level. A 57 cm frame has an actual seat tube length of about 54 cm.

HTH

Pat in TX

Pat said:

:
: Preston: My only concern is with your height (6'1"😉 and the frame size
: (55cm). I assume that Bianchi measures center-to-center, so a 55 would be
: close to a 57-58cm if measured as Trek does, but even then that's a pretty
: small size for someone your height, with the main issue being getting the
: handlebars high enough. I don't sell Bianchi though, so it could be that
the
: model in question has a much-higher-than-normal front end, allowing the
bars
: to be high enough for comfort.

My Bianchi brochure has this:

The sizing for road frames is based on the measurement from the center of
the bottom bracket to the imaginary top of the seat tube if the top tube
were level. A 57 cm frame has an actual seat tube length of about 54 cm.

HTH

Pat in TX

Here's the page for the Volpe, giving the measurements.

http://www.bianchiusa.com/570.html

Going over where I'm at on my current bike, and where the 55 is at, I'm
comfortable in my head with it. We'll see how I do over the next couple
days.

Preston

Dan Daniel said:

I saw you mention elsewhere something about getting a triple put on
and thought to myself, 'gee, he's going to have a Volpe with fenders
and a dynamo....'

That's funny. I didn't even know the Volpe existed. I wish I would have
looked before I leapt, and seen that they had another bike, exactly the
same (in terms of frame geometry). I mean, that was what I was looking
for, essentially was an upright road bike that took fenders. Something
Trek just doesn't make for under $1200. That's why I had to find another
LBS.

Quoted message said:

Any local bike lists? Do what you can to get the word out about this
shop. Go to the Portland craig's list and put a message on the bike
section!

I will. Believe me. I wish *I* would have known about this shop before I
got so despondent mid-winter about my prospects of finding a good
all-weather bike.

Preston

maxo said:

Preston Crawford said:

Quoted message said:

Hold on to that bike shop like grim death. (And buy 'em a case of beer when
all sorted out.)

Definitely. Quite amazing in times like these to get that kind of service.

Preston

Sound like great guys. Often guys in bike shops will go out of their way
to make things more than right when it's a bike that they find
interesting, or it's a potential learning experience. It's a slow time of
year, investing their time in your problem, is both fun compared to other
mundane shop tasks, and potentially good for business--I'll certainly shop
there the next time I'm in Portland. :P

Do. They are great guys, and really seemed to enjoy the process as well.
It wasn't just work, which is nice to see. I personally (as a computer
programmer sick of my field) would love to get trained to wrench and do
that for a living for a while. I think it looks like fun. I just suck at
it right now. I'm not very mechanical in that regard. Doesn't mean I don't
respect it/think it looks like fun.

As far as being good for business goes, he doesn't know me from the guy on
the street. So the fact that he's going to this extent, shoes that he does
care about everyone who walks in the door, which is cool. And from what my
wife tells me, this isn't desparation or anything. Apparently this shop is
*the* shop people from up and down the west coast come to for their
Triathlon needs, as it's also a huge Triathlon and Tri-bike shop.

Quoted message said:

When I was looking for a Shimano DX cog for my single a while back, they
begged me to bring in my bike so we could share notes. I spent five bucks
and an hour gabbing with the wrenches. It works both ways. 😉

I asked if they wanted help last night with lame stuff like the bottle
cages, but they were moving so quickly they said "no problem" and sped
along.

Preston

Heyo, Mike and Preston! Mike is absolutely right in his thinking --
yup, stem height is a critical part of this fit. But remember that
Preston said he had a 30 inch inseam! Short legs!!! 55cm sounds about
right, for c-c, or 58 for c-t. I notice he reaffirms this in a followup
post below, with mention of his long torso. Preston, maybe you should
be a swimmer instead! Swimming coaches love long torsos.

Mark

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

So he basically said we need to scrap this. This bike isn't going

to work.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He pulled a 55cm Bianchi Volpe (same frame, but with the braze-on,

as the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Castro Valley). He did more measurements of the bike, me, etc. and

he said

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that (A) the Trek 1000 wasn't exactly 57 for starters and (B) the

reason I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

needed the funky quill setup was probably because I had the wrong

size on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my current bike to begin with. So basically without me so much as

asking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he took everything I wanted off the Castro Valley that I'd had put

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(computer, suicide levers, wider handlebars, etc.) and put them on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Volpe.

Preston: My only concern is with your height (6'1"😉 and the frame

size

Quoted message said:

(55cm). I assume that Bianchi measures center-to-center, so a 55

would be

Quoted message said:

close to a 57-58cm if measured as Trek does, but even then that's a

pretty

Quoted message said:

small size for someone your height, with the main issue being getting

the

Quoted message said:

handlebars high enough. I don't sell Bianchi though, so it could be

that the

Quoted message said:

model in question has a much-higher-than-normal front end, allowing

the bars

Quoted message said:

to be high enough for comfort.

Just curious, how much drop is there presently from the saddle to the

Quoted message said:

handlebar? Easiest way to measure this is the difference between the

ground

Quoted message said:

and the top of the saddle vs the ground to the top of the handlebars.

Too

Quoted message said:

much drop is the sort of thing that might not show up immediately,

but could

Quoted message said:

be an issue down the road, especially on longer rides.

Having said all that, it seems that the guy is going to a lot of

trouble

Quoted message said:

trying to make things right for you, so it's likely that things are

going in

Quoted message said:

the right direction (and, after all, he's there, I'm not, so it could

be one

Quoted message said:

of those things where it's obvious looking at you on a bike, even

though the

Quoted message said:

numbers don't add up).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Preston Crawford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cross-posting this time, at the behest of others in a previous

thread. I'm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not sure which is worse, so please be understanding if you're in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"never cross-post" camp, as I generally am. With that said, here's

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

update. Sorry for the length. It's just too good a story not to

tell,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

considering how helpful this shop has been. It's that whole idea

about not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

telling enough about the good things people do for you. So here

goes...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So this new LBS I've been dealing with, that has just stunned me

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

their ability to work with me and be very generous with their help

(i.e.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

swapping out parts, doing labor for free, without asking, things

I'm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

definitely not used to) has two shops in Portland. They used to be

called

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Gateway Bicycles. Now they're called Speedzone. So I called up the

owner

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

at the main store in Portland and he said that it sounded like

either (A)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I wasn't fit right yet and (B) I probably DID need a triple in the

front

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and that he wished someone had mentioned the Volpe as he personally
thought anyone going long distances might struggle with the Castro
Valley's 9 gears. So he asked me to come in and this is what

happened.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I took the Castro Valley and first he put me up on the trainer,

made some

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mental notes and then proceeded to have his mechanics begin adding

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

triple. Meanwhile he put me up on the trainer with my current bike

to look

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

at the difference and where I was currently. For point of reference

I'm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

6'1" with a 30-inch pants inseam (not sure what my cycling inseam

is) and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my current bike is a 58cm Trek 1000.

So anyway, he seemed concerned about the saddle on the Castro

Valley and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so we proceeded to look for a saddle that was better fitting (i.e.

more

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

narrow as that's how I like to ride). Found a good Specialized,

then part

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

way through getting the triple on the mechanics realized there was

only a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

single braze-on for the Castro Valley. So they'd have to do some

trickery

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to run the cabling for the front derailleur. This is where things

once

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

again get into "I'm not used to getting treated this well" land.

So he basically said we need to scrap this. This bike isn't going

to work.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He pulled a 55cm Bianchi Volpe (same frame, but with the braze-on,

as the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Castro Valley). He did more measurements of the bike, me, etc. and

he said

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that (A) the Trek 1000 wasn't exactly 57 for starters and (B) the

reason I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

needed the funky quill setup was probably because I had the wrong

size on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my current bike to begin with. So basically without me so much as

asking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he took everything I wanted off the Castro Valley that I'd had put

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(computer, suicide levers, wider handlebars, etc.) and put them on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Volpe.

And keep in mind, this is all happening for free. I've never

experienced

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this before. Usually shops I go to charge for most things that are

done

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and I'm more than willing to pay for it, but he just had them do

the work,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

without question. They got the Volpe setup, put the new saddle,

fenders

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on, so basically the Volpe became the same bike as the Castro

Valley,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

minus the dynamo and the light. He also, without prompting, asking,

etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

switched out the bigger tires on the Volpe for the smaller slicks

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

come with the Castro Valley.

So, after it was all said and done, they spent about 3 hours

helping fit

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

me, work on trying to get the right bike put together and when it

turned

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

out the Castro Valley I'd purchased wasn't going to work with a

triple,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rather than throw it back to me, he (without hesitation) got me

into a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

different bike and then given the chance took the time to try to

get the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fit better. His opinion being that I was leaning too far on my

current

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bike and that a 55cm would be a better fit. Especially because I

wouldn't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

need to do anything funky to get the right height + extension on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

handlebars.

It was quite the whirlwind and when it was done he basically said

"let me

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

know how that works out, good or bad, in the next couple days". I

think

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

them all profusely and headed home.

Quite the odd experience to be treated so well and with such

detail. I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ride the bike today for the first time, but given how much effort

he put

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

into trying to put together the right bike for me I'm optimistic

this is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

going to go well. I'll update after I get a chance to ride it a few

times.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Clearly, though, he put a lot of effort into figuring out the size,

where

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was at with my current bike, etc. He had a Volpe 58 on hand and

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

basically willing to stake the fact I may have to return this for

the 58,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on his reading that the 55 would be a better fit anyway.

Anyway, very nice people. Very generous for a bike shop to go to

those

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lengths to help you, almost without you having to ask or say

anything.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Preston

spoking said:

Heyo, Mike and Preston! Mike is absolutely right in his thinking --
yup, stem height is a critical part of this fit. But remember that

Of course it is. And that's why I think this could work. My current bike,
remembering the picture (I wish I had a better one), has a stem that's
like straight up and one inch out. So it took some real work to get that
58 to be the right stem height, without being too long. Whereas the owner
of this shop believes that's a problem and the 55 is better precisely
becuase I can get the same stem height and the correct length, without
having a stem that goes straight up.

Quoted message said:

Preston said he had a 30 inch inseam! Short legs!!! 55cm sounds about
right, for c-c, or 58 for c-t. I notice he reaffirms this in a followup
post below, with mention of his long torso. Preston, maybe you should
be a swimmer instead! Swimming coaches love long torsos.

I wish I was a swimmer. I'd love to do a Triathlon, like my wife does. But
first I have to learn how to swim.

Preston

Quoted message said:

Heyo, Mike and Preston! Mike is absolutely right in his thinking --
yup, stem height is a critical part of this fit. But remember that
Preston said he had a 30 inch inseam! Short legs!!! 55cm sounds about
right, for c-c, or 58 for c-t. I notice he reaffirms this in a followup
post below, with mention of his long torso. Preston, maybe you should
be a swimmer instead! Swimming coaches love long torsos.

Mark

But the curious part is that, sure, he's only got a 30" inseam, but still
he's 6'1", and his height has to be somewhere... so my normal thinking would
be that he has a really long torso (which he says is the case), but a really
long torso usually requires a longer top tube, but that's where everything
kinda falls apart because he evidently has problems with a longer top tube,
so above all what this points out to is the importance of actually looking
at somebody on the bike because formulas and common sense don't always work.
They often do, but not always.

Fitting can be quite the interesting subject. Twice recently I've had
customers whom we've fit to their new bikes a certain way, but as they
started riding well-meaning people told them that they weren't set up quite
right and they should try this-or-that. Fine, we oblige them, making the
changes they request (we change stems out at no charge on bikes we sell,
even long after they've been sold, providing we don't have to re-cable), but
things don't seem quite right and they start questioning the process of
being fit and eventually pay significant bucks to somebody who basically
does fitting for a living. And, in each of the two recent cases, the bikes
came back with positions almost identical to how they were originally sent
out the door. This sort of thing used to frustrate me, but not so much
anymore; different people need different things (processes, procedures,
amount of money spent) to feel good about something, and there's no way I
can be all things to all people.

Having said that, it still bothers me sometimes that people who fit
"professionally" don't often recognize the consequences of some of the
changes they make. In the latest case, the guy had moved her cleats all the
way to the front of the slot, insisting that she had something funny about
her instep that required this. And, ever since making that move, this woman
has had severe knee issues and couldn't even ride her bike for two weeks.
Fore/aft cleat positioning is, in my experience, the #1 cause of knee
problems, and a very large number of cyclists will be helped greatly by
doing nothing more than moving the cleats back (towards the rear of the
shoe).

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member

"spoking" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Heyo, Mike and Preston! Mike is absolutely right in his thinking --
yup, stem height is a critical part of this fit. But remember that
Preston said he had a 30 inch inseam! Short legs!!! 55cm sounds about
right, for c-c, or 58 for c-t. I notice he reaffirms this in a followup
post below, with mention of his long torso. Preston, maybe you should
be a swimmer instead! Swimming coaches love long torsos.

Mark

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

So he basically said we need to scrap this. This bike isn't going

to work.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He pulled a 55cm Bianchi Volpe (same frame, but with the braze-on,

as the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Castro Valley). He did more measurements of the bike, me, etc. and

he said

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that (A) the Trek 1000 wasn't exactly 57 for starters and (B) the

reason I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

needed the funky quill setup was probably because I had the wrong

size on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my current bike to begin with. So basically without me so much as

asking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he took everything I wanted off the Castro Valley that I'd had put

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(computer, suicide levers, wider handlebars, etc.) and put them on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Volpe.

Preston: My only concern is with your height (6'1"😉 and the frame

size

Quoted message said:

(55cm). I assume that Bianchi measures center-to-center, so a 55

would be

Quoted message said:

close to a 57-58cm if measured as Trek does, but even then that's a

pretty

Quoted message said:

small size for someone your height, with the main issue being getting

the

Quoted message said:

handlebars high enough. I don't sell Bianchi though, so it could be

that the

Quoted message said:

model in question has a much-higher-than-normal front end, allowing

the bars

Quoted message said:

to be high enough for comfort.

Just curious, how much drop is there presently from the saddle to the

Quoted message said:

handlebar? Easiest way to measure this is the difference between the

ground

Quoted message said:

and the top of the saddle vs the ground to the top of the handlebars.

Too

Quoted message said:

much drop is the sort of thing that might not show up immediately,

but could

Quoted message said:

be an issue down the road, especially on longer rides.

Having said all that, it seems that the guy is going to a lot of

trouble

Quoted message said:

trying to make things right for you, so it's likely that things are

going in

Quoted message said:

the right direction (and, after all, he's there, I'm not, so it could

be one

Quoted message said:

of those things where it's obvious looking at you on a bike, even

though the

Quoted message said:

numbers don't add up).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Preston Crawford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cross-posting this time, at the behest of others in a previous

thread. I'm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not sure which is worse, so please be understanding if you're in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"never cross-post" camp, as I generally am. With that said, here's

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

update. Sorry for the length. It's just too good a story not to

tell,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

considering how helpful this shop has been. It's that whole idea

about not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

telling enough about the good things people do for you. So here

goes...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So this new LBS I've been dealing with, that has just stunned me

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

their ability to work with me and be very generous with their help

(i.e.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

swapping out parts, doing labor for free, without asking, things

I'm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

definitely not used to) has two shops in Portland. They used to be

called

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Gateway Bicycles. Now they're called Speedzone. So I called up the

owner

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

at the main store in Portland and he said that it sounded like

either (A)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I wasn't fit right yet and (B) I probably DID need a triple in the

front

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and that he wished someone had mentioned the Volpe as he personally
thought anyone going long distances might struggle with the Castro
Valley's 9 gears. So he asked me to come in and this is what

happened.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I took the Castro Valley and first he put me up on the trainer,

made some

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mental notes and then proceeded to have his mechanics begin adding

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

triple. Meanwhile he put me up on the trainer with my current bike

to look

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

at the difference and where I was currently. For point of reference

I'm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

6'1" with a 30-inch pants inseam (not sure what my cycling inseam

is) and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my current bike is a 58cm Trek 1000.

So anyway, he seemed concerned about the saddle on the Castro

Valley and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so we proceeded to look for a saddle that was better fitting (i.e.

more

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

narrow as that's how I like to ride). Found a good Specialized,

then part

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

way through getting the triple on the mechanics realized there was

only a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

single braze-on for the Castro Valley. So they'd have to do some

trickery

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to run the cabling for the front derailleur. This is where things

once

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

again get into "I'm not used to getting treated this well" land.

So he basically said we need to scrap this. This bike isn't going

to work.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He pulled a 55cm Bianchi Volpe (same frame, but with the braze-on,

as the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Castro Valley). He did more measurements of the bike, me, etc. and

he said

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that (A) the Trek 1000 wasn't exactly 57 for starters and (B) the

reason I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

needed the funky quill setup was probably because I had the wrong

size on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my current bike to begin with. So basically without me so much as

asking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he took everything I wanted off the Castro Valley that I'd had put

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(computer, suicide levers, wider handlebars, etc.) and put them on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Volpe.

And keep in mind, this is all happening for free. I've never

experienced

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this before. Usually shops I go to charge for most things that are

done

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and I'm more than willing to pay for it, but he just had them do

the work,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

without question. They got the Volpe setup, put the new saddle,

fenders

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on, so basically the Volpe became the same bike as the Castro

Valley,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

minus the dynamo and the light. He also, without prompting, asking,

etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

switched out the bigger tires on the Volpe for the smaller slicks

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

come with the Castro Valley.

So, after it was all said and done, they spent about 3 hours

helping fit

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

me, work on trying to get the right bike put together and when it

turned

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

out the Castro Valley I'd purchased wasn't going to work with a

triple,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rather than throw it back to me, he (without hesitation) got me

into a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

different bike and then given the chance took the time to try to

get the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fit better. His opinion being that I was leaning too far on my

current

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bike and that a 55cm would be a better fit. Especially because I

wouldn't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

need to do anything funky to get the right height + extension on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

handlebars.

It was quite the whirlwind and when it was done he basically said

"let me

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

know how that works out, good or bad, in the next couple days". I

think

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

them all profusely and headed home.

Quite the odd experience to be treated so well and with such

detail. I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ride the bike today for the first time, but given how much effort

he put

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

into trying to put together the right bike for me I'm optimistic

this is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

going to go well. I'll update after I get a chance to ride it a few

times.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Clearly, though, he put a lot of effort into figuring out the size,

where

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was at with my current bike, etc. He had a Volpe 58 on hand and

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

basically willing to stake the fact I may have to return this for

the 58,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on his reading that the 55 would be a better fit anyway.

Anyway, very nice people. Very generous for a bike shop to go to

those

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lengths to help you, almost without you having to ask or say

anything.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Preston

:
: Here's the page for the Volpe, giving the measurements.
:
: http://www.bianchiusa.com/570.html
:
: Going over where I'm at on my current bike, and where the 55 is at, I'm
: comfortable in my head with it. We'll see how I do over the next couple
: days.
:
: Preston

I ride a 55 cm Bianchi Veloce, and my inseam is 32", so I can see where
yours would fit you since your legs are shorter. Do you have enough
stand-over distance?

Pat in TX

Preston Crawford said:

So this new LBS I've been dealing with, that has just

stunned me with

Quoted message said:

their ability to work with me .... They
used to be called Gateway Bicycles. Now they're called

Speedzone.
(Portland, Oregon)

You've found your bike shop, that's for sure.
A guy who's that concerned that you be a satisfied customer
deserves a few free plugs.

Pat said:

:
: Here's the page for the Volpe, giving the measurements.
:
: http://www.bianchiusa.com/570.html
:
: Going over where I'm at on my current bike, and where the 55 is at, I'm
: comfortable in my head with it. We'll see how I do over the next couple
: days.
:
: Preston

I ride a 55 cm Bianchi Veloce, and my inseam is 32", so I can see where
yours would fit you since your legs are shorter. Do you have enough
stand-over distance?

Pat in TX

I had 0 stand-over distance on the 58. On the 55 I have a little
clearance.

Preston

Pat said:

:
: Here's the page for the Volpe, giving the measurements.
:
: http://www.bianchiusa.com/570.html
:
: Going over where I'm at on my current bike, and where the 55 is at, I'm
: comfortable in my head with it. We'll see how I do over the next couple
: days.
:
: Preston

I ride a 55 cm Bianchi Veloce, and my inseam is 32", so I can see where
yours would fit you since your legs are shorter. Do you have enough
stand-over distance?

By the way, you mean 32" clothing inseam, right? Because that's what I've
been saying all along. I don't remember what my bike inseam is. I only
know what my clothing inseam is.

Preston

"Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I ride a 55 cm Bianchi Veloce, and my inseam is 32", so I can see where
yours would fit you since your legs are shorter. Do you have enough
stand-over distance?

Preston only mentioned his *trouser* inseam. Given that fashion sense could
yield a 3-4"* difference in trouser inseam on the same person, it's not a
very useful indicator of anything cycling-related.

I would have thought that one these many professional fittings Preston's had
would have generated some numbers he could refer to going forward.

RichC

*or more, if the pants my son used to wear when he was in high school are
any indication. Their inseam measurement bore no discernable relationship to
the actual measurement of any part of his body.