Another trailer question

David W.E. Roberts said:

Given that they can carry a couple of hefty kids, and you get a complete
raincover, what is the downside (apart from wind resistance)?

You can get expensive moppet trailers too: you generally get what you
pay for in quality of the basic vehicle itself and the hitch design
(both for ease of use and robustness). Single wheel cargo trailers like
the BoB will probably perform better on tours and/or at speed (they lean
with the bike), or especially off-road, but for a grocery trundle that
may well be a bit of a moot point.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On 22/7/04 10:45 am, in article [email hidden], "Peter

Clinch said:

David W.E. Roberts said:

Given that they can carry a couple of hefty kids, and you get a complete
raincover, what is the downside (apart from wind resistance)?

You can get expensive moppet trailers too:

They are expensive but worth it. We paid about 550 for the kids trailer
which is now about 7 years old. Still going strong though looking tired.

Quoted message said:

you generally get what you
pay for in quality of the basic vehicle itself and the hitch design
(both for ease of use and robustness).

Absolutely. In the seven years it has been used on probably about 6 months
of days. And it will quite happily take up to 60 kg (couple of bags of
sand/concrete, full weekly shop etc.) with a rated max speed of 20 mph. I
have taken it down a hill at near 30 (not with the kids in I hasten to add),
off road, used it as a push chair and so on.

The kids love it. They are warm and dry and can take teddies/drinks and so
on with them.

...d

"I have been looking from time to time at trailers for carrying groceries
(and possibly a day out now and then) and always found them just a little
too expensive."

I've also been put off by the high cost of trailers - I've bought a "towbar" attachment called a Traileron, which is supposed to enable you to tow pretty much anything with wheels (a shopping trolley in my case). Haven't dared use it yet though as I feel a bit self-conscious, living in a neighbourhood where a woman on any kind of bike (let alone an ancient Dahon) is a great novelty. Has anyone else any experience of this type of towbar?

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David W.E. Roberts said:

Given that they can carry a couple of hefty kids, and you get a complete
raincover, what is the downside (apart from wind resistance)?

You can get expensive moppet trailers too: you generally get what you
pay for in quality of the basic vehicle itself and the hitch design
(both for ease of use and robustness). Single wheel cargo trailers like
the BoB will probably perform better on tours and/or at speed (they lean
with the bike), or especially off-road, but for a grocery trundle that
may well be a bit of a moot point.

Pete.

Yes, I understand you can get expensive moppet traileres as well :-)

Just wondering why there appeared to be quite a lot of cheap moppet trailers
but not a lot of cheap General Purpose trailers.

Cheers
Dave R

David W.E. Roberts <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Just wondering why there appeared to be quite a lot of cheap moppet trailers
: but not a lot of cheap General Purpose trailers.

I've bought a BoB YaK. £200+a bit including bag. I've never regretted a
penny of it. It has been the single most useful cycling thing I have
ever bought.

There's plenty of other good trailers out there, and the choice of which one
depends on what you want it for, but a trailer is such a useful thing if you
don't have a car or do shopping etc. by bike that I think everyone should have
one.

Arthur (a trailer convert. Can you tell?)

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

David W.E. Roberts said:

Just wondering why there appeared to be quite a lot of cheap moppet tra=

ilers

Quoted message said:

but not a lot of cheap General Purpose trailers.

This is entirely guesswork on my part, but...

Kids like being pulled about by bike so there's a positive virtue in=20
using the bike rather than the car. OTOH, cargo doesn't generally shout =

if it goes by car instead, and while plain cycling in the UK for utility =

purposes is a niche for weird people, pulling cargo on a trailer rather=20
than using a motor vehicle is practically inviting investigation by the=20
local MHO in the eyes of the general public so the market is primarily=20
for dedicated people, and they're usually willing to spend Real Money on =

serious engineering that will last a /long/ time.

Longevity is also less of an issue for a moppetmobile: most kids will=20
want to graduate out of a trailer as soon as they can get about on their =

own, or perhaps a trailer bike. If you have 2 or 3 over time you'll be=20
using it for a few years, but even so it probably has a clear shelf life =

for carrying kids, where the ideal length of service for a cargo trailer =

is the longer the better. That means better engineering, which again=20
costs =A3=A3=A3s.

In short, more of a market (or so I guess).

Pete.
--=20
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

David W.E. Roberts said:

Just wondering why there appeared to be quite a lot of cheap
moppet trailers but not a lot of cheap General Purpose trailers.

This is entirely guesswork on my part, but...
<big snip>
That means better engineering, which again costs £££s.

My Yak's fairly well engineered, but I can't see that it's £200 worth
of engineering. Just one small spoked wheel, one 'headset' and then a
few welded tubes. + a nifty drysac, of course

Of course, at the volumes they make, it's probably a fair price, but
I'd say it was more volumes than engineering.

A

Ambrose Nankivell said:

Of course, at the volumes they make, it's probably a fair price, but
I'd say it was more volumes than engineering.

Both: low volumes of well built kit still cost more than low volumes of=20
the same made from cheese. Hence =C2=A31,150 for an Eight Freight, which=
you=20
/could/ make a lot more cheaply and still sturdy enough for the job.=20
But if you did it would weigh a whole lot more and not be quite so well=20
thought out for actual use.

Pete.
--=20
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

in message <[email hidden]>, David W.E. Roberts

(') said:

I have been looking from time to time at trailers for carrying
groceries (and possibly a day out now and then) and always found them
just a little too expensive.

I did note however that kiddies trailers seem to come in at around the
£100 mark but most other trailers cost £150 - £250.

Given that they can carry a couple of hefty kids, and you get a
complete raincover, what is the downside (apart from wind resistance)?

Relative to the bike-hod
<URL:http://www.bikehod.com/bike-hod/index.html>, the bike hod is easy
to manouver off the bike because the draw bar is at a comfortable
height to use as a handle - it is in effect a giant shopping trolley,
and as such you can take it into the shop with you. I used one for
years and provided you don't go too fast it's pretty good. It has a
very simple and easy to use hitch.

Relative to a one-wheel trailer (monoporter/yak/ibex) you can't corner
so fast. The Yak (and Ibex) also have very simple easy to use hitches,

But for trundling round town from the supermarket to home, I would have
thought a kiddie trailer would be fine.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:38:14 +1000 someone who may be Squeaker
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I've also been put off by the high cost of trailers

I have seen a number of relatively cheap ones that are designed just
for load carrying. Child carrying ones are more complicated and cost
a lot more.

Quoted message said:

I've bought a
"towbar" attachment called a Traileron, which is supposed to enable you
to tow pretty much anything with wheels (a shopping trolley in my case).

I'm sure people will be interested in your experiences.

Quoted message said:

Haven't dared use it yet though as I feel a bit self-conscious, living
in a neighbourhood where a woman on any kind of bike (let alone an
ancient Dahon) is a great novelty.

If anybody makes fun of you then comfort yourself with the thought
that they are stupid and ignore them.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

in message <[email hidden]>, David W.E. Roberts

(') said:

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David W.E. Roberts said:

Given that they can carry a couple of hefty kids, and you get a
complete raincover, what is the downside (apart from wind
resistance)?

You can get expensive moppet trailers too: you generally get what you
pay for in quality of the basic vehicle itself and the hitch design
(both for ease of use and robustness). Single wheel cargo trailers
like the BoB will probably perform better on tours and/or at speed
(they lean with the bike), or especially off-road, but for a grocery
trundle that may well be a bit of a moot point.

Yes, I understand you can get expensive moppet traileres as well :-)

Just wondering why there appeared to be quite a lot of cheap moppet
trailers but not a lot of cheap General Purpose trailers.

General purpose trailers sell primarily to serious utility cyclists,
which means the market is small, and the buyers are likely to have
durability and adaptability in mind.

Moppet trailers sell to people who think it would be nice to to cycling
on a sunny summer's sunday afternoon. The market is much larger, and
some of the buyers will be more price-sensitive than quality-sensitive.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn.
;; Jim Morrison

David Hansen said:

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:38:14 +1000 someone who may be Squeaker
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I've also been put off by the high cost of trailers

I have seen a number of relatively cheap ones that are designed just
for load carrying. Child carrying ones are more complicated and cost
a lot more.

Quoted message said:

I've bought a
"towbar" attachment called a Traileron, which is supposed to enable you
to tow pretty much anything with wheels (a shopping trolley in my case).

I'm sure people will be interested in your experiences.

Quoted message said:

Haven't dared use it yet though as I feel a bit self-conscious, living
in a neighbourhood where a woman on any kind of bike (let alone an
ancient Dahon) is a great novelty.

If anybody makes fun of you then comfort yourself with the thought
that they are stupid and ignore them.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

Thanks - maybe I'll steel myself and give the towbar a try-out, and let you know the result!

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, David W.E. Roberts

(') said:

I have been looking from time to time at trailers for carrying
groceries (and possibly a day out now and then) and always found them
just a little too expensive.

I did note however that kiddies trailers seem to come in at around the
£100 mark but most other trailers cost £150 - £250.

Given that they can carry a couple of hefty kids, and you get a
complete raincover, what is the downside (apart from wind resistance)?

Relative to the bike-hod
<URL:http://www.bikehod.com/bike-hod/index.html>, the bike hod is easy
to manouver off the bike because the draw bar is at a comfortable
height to use as a handle - it is in effect a giant shopping trolley,
and as such you can take it into the shop with you. I used one for
years and provided you don't go too fast it's pretty good. It has a
very simple and easy to use hitch.

Relative to a one-wheel trailer (monoporter/yak/ibex) you can't corner
so fast. The Yak (and Ibex) also have very simple easy to use hitches,

But for trundling round town from the supermarket to home, I would have
thought a kiddie trailer would be fine.

I use mine for the weekly shop and it's perfect for the job. Being a child
trailer there's probably more space than in an average cargo trailer - I'm
guessing here - so whilst the weight rating may be no higher it's handy for
carrying bulky, light items.
It was a quite pricey trailer (c.£375 - 3 years ago) and has a metal base.
This is good for the groceries as I just remove the seat and the shopping
fits in a couple of crates on the floor. If the trailer has a fabric base
this may be less feasible. I imagine a fabric base is OK for kids to rest
their feet but not as able to support crates full of beer.

tony R.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:35:01 GMT someone who may be Simon Brooke
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Relative to the bike-hod

http://www.orbit-cycles.co.uk/trailers.shtml near the bottom lists
two alternatives that are worth considering. The Gecko is over £100,
but the Orbit is advertised at £80.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:38:14 +1000 someone who may be Squeaker
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I've also been put off by the high cost of trailers - I've bought a
"towbar" attachment called a Traileron, which is supposed to enable you
to tow pretty much anything with wheels (a shopping trolley in my case).

I forgot to add. The wheels on shopping trolleys are usually small
and have solid rims. Thus they will tend to drop a long way into
holes and not climb out of them easily. Breakable items should
probably be packed carefully. The wheels on bike trailers are much
bigger, even the Bike Hod has wheels about three times the diameter
of most shopping trolleys. BTW this is not some male obsession with
size:-)

The other thing is that shopping trolley wheels are closer together
than on bike trailers. As a result the trolley is more likely to tip
over, even if loaded properly. The only "towbar" attachment I have
seen (in a photograph) seemed to be designed to hold the handle of
the trolley in such a way as to prevent overturning.

Don't let these thoughts put you off, but it might be a good idea to
pick a quiet place to find out how the ensemble handles. You may
also need to cycle quite slowly, at least to begin with. I would say
the same thing to anyone who has not towed a trailer before.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:49:04 +0100 someone who may be "tony R"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But for trundling round town from the supermarket to home, I would have
thought a kiddie trailer would be fine.

I use mine for the weekly shop and it's perfect for the job. Being a child
trailer there's probably more space than in an average cargo trailer - I'm
guessing here - so whilst the weight rating may be no higher it's handy for
carrying bulky, light items.

People describe how they justify an expensive child trailer because
it will be useful for shopping long after the children are too big
for it. That is an advantage of those that can be converted from one
sort of trailer to another. Some can also be converted into dog
transporters.

Much the same argument is used to justify transport bikes like the
Christiania or Nihola.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen <[email hidden]> wrote:

: http://www.orbit-cycles.co.uk/trailers.shtml near the bottom lists
: two alternatives that are worth considering. The Gecko is over £100,
: but the Orbit is advertised at £80.

I'd be wary of the Orbit after reading "The 12" foam-tyre wheels can't puncture"

Solid wheels. Avoid.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

in message <[email hidden]>, Arthur Clune

(') said:

David Hansen <[email hidden]> wrote:

: http://www.orbit-cycles.co.uk/trailers.shtml near the bottom lists
: two alternatives that are worth considering. The Gecko is over £100,
: but the Orbit is advertised at £80.

I'd be wary of the Orbit after reading "The 12" foam-tyre wheels can't
puncture"

Solid wheels. Avoid.

My BikeHod had solid wheels, much like a golf trolley. It was
surprisingly good. As I've said often its one great fault was a
tendency to capsize on very fast downhill bends. But it did many
thousands of miles, mostly fast, across country, with loads which it
would have been awkward to carry in panniers.

What it died of in the end was non-serviceable bearings. There was no
non-destructive way (that I could find) to remove the wheels from the
axle and replace the bearings. So when the bearings died, the trailer
died.

I agree pneumatic tyres would be better.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken. I found a rather battered tube of Araldite
resin in the bottom of the toolbag.

David Hansen said:

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:38:14 +1000 someone who may be Squeaker
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I've also been put off by the high cost of trailers - I've bought a
"towbar" attachment called a Traileron, which is supposed to enable you
to tow pretty much anything with wheels (a shopping trolley in my case).

I forgot to add. The wheels on shopping trolleys are usually small
and have solid rims. Thus they will tend to drop a long way into
holes and not climb out of them easily. Breakable items should
probably be packed carefully. The wheels on bike trailers are much
bigger, even the Bike Hod has wheels about three times the diameter
of most shopping trolleys. BTW this is not some male obsession with
size:-)

The other thing is that shopping trolley wheels are closer together
than on bike trailers. As a result the trolley is more likely to tip
over, even if loaded properly. The only "towbar" attachment I have
seen (in a photograph) seemed to be designed to hold the handle of
the trolley in such a way as to prevent overturning.

Don't let these thoughts put you off, but it might be a good idea to
pick a quiet place to find out how the ensemble handles. You may
also need to cycle quite slowly, at least to begin with. I would say
the same thing to anyone who has not towed a trailer before.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

Thanks - I was already thinking about getting some better wheels as the shopping trolley ones are tiddly and I remember reading somewhere that pneumatic ones would be better (size matters after all!). I shall certainly pick a quiet place for my first attempt - maybe the local cemetery about four in the morning ... Actually I was fiddling with some bags and my bike last night and the karabiner idea that's been discussed on another thread on this forum might work. Thanks again!