Another scary crash video

"caffetrieste" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How the HELL did Frank Schleck walk away from this one, get back on
his bike, and finish the race?

http://www.cycleto.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=289

Wow, he is lucky he is not dead, how far did he fall and what was at the
bottom ?

caffetrieste said:

How the HELL did Frank Schleck walk away from this one, get back on
his bike, and finish the race?

http://www.cycleto.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=289

I've seen a few csc cervelo riders do that the past year or two- I
think there's a problem with the carbon frames twisting at the head
tube under side load or something like that

caffetrieste said:

How the HELL did Frank Schleck walk away from this one, get back on his
bike, and finish the race?

http://www.cycleto.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=289

A bit like Kessler's crash a while back. Hopefully the adrenaline released
by a crash like that does not result in a positive testosterone test.

Quoted message said:

caffetrieste said:

How the HELL did Frank Schleck walk away from this one, get back on
his bike, and finish the race?

http://www.cycleto.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=289

I've seen a few csc cervelo riders do that the past year or two- I
think there's a problem with the carbon frames twisting at the head
tube under side load or something like that

No way. It's rider error.

Donald Munro said:

caffetrieste said:

How the HELL did Frank Schleck walk away from this one, get back on his
bike, and finish the race?

Quoted message said:

http://www.cycleto.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=289

A bit like Kessler's crash a while back. Hopefully the adrenaline released
by a crash like that does not result in a positive testosterone test.

Bruyneel's crash in the Tour de France. I think he fell about 30 feet
down the side of the road and there was a human chain to help him back
up.

-ilan

On Jun 19, 5:40 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 18, 7:06 pm, caffetrieste <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How the HELL did Frank Schleck walk away from this one, get back on
his bike, and finish the race?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.cycleto.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=289

Quoted message said:

I've seen a few csc cervelo riders do that the past year or two- I
think there's a problem with the carbon frames twisting at the head
tube under side load or something like that

No way. It's rider error.

Partly. There seemed to be a dark patch in the road - maybe oil? -
and that can happen to anybody. It's tough when natural instinct
(putting a foot down) wins out over keeping your ass from flying off
an embankment. He should have laid it down.

From my perspective that was almost a perfect crash. There was the
initial, Uh-oh! reaction as you saw him unclip and start to put his
foot down, then the OMFG! as he launched and plummeted, then the
Alright! I Love That Guy! as you see him get back on the bike. A
solid 9.6 on anyone's scale.

R

On Jun 19, 5:40 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

No way. It's rider error.

Just read Schleck's account of the accident, and you're right -
entirely rider error.

R

RicodJour said:

Partly. There seemed to be a dark patch in the road - maybe oil? -
and that can happen to anybody. It's tough when natural instinct
(putting a foot down) wins out over keeping your ass from flying off
an embankment. He should have laid it down.

Yeah. Perhaps rider error, perhaps oil. If I heard later his tire
flatted just then I wouldn't be surprised either. But NOT severe
frame flex for those bikes specifically.

On Jun 19, 8:23 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 05:09:31 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour

Quoted message said:

Partly.  There seemed to be a dark patch in the road - maybe oil? -
and that can happen to anybody.  It's tough when natural instinct
(putting a foot down) wins out over keeping your ass from flying off
an embankment.  He should have laid it down.

Yeah. Perhaps rider error, perhaps oil. If I heard later his tire
flatted just then I wouldn't be surprised either.  But NOT severe
frame flex for those bikes specifically.

not severe flex, but just enough under load- or something else about
the frame- last year at the tdf there were a couple of occaisions
where the csc rider was unable to negoiate the curve on a descent,
whereas other riders did- anyone re-watching the tdf2007 dvds might
just take a note of the number of times a csc rider had trouble on a
curve

RicodJour said:

On Jun 19, 5:40 am, John Forrest Tomlinson

Quoted message said:

No way. It's rider error.

Just read Schleck's account of the accident, and you're right -
entirely rider error.

There has been quite a discussion about Schleck going astray on
it.sport.ciclismo.
Unanimous consensus is that he got scared when he got to the middle of
the turn. A Swiss guy who knows that road quite well said that that
particular turn is quite tricky, as it does not appear to be so tight
until you are inside of it.
So, Andy appears to have panicked, unclipped without reason and did
not manouver correctly.
Rider's fault, in other words.

Could someone, please, report Schleck's original account?

Sergio
Pisa

sergio said:

RicodJour said:

On Jun 19, 5:40 am, John Forrest Tomlinson

Quoted message said:

No way. It's rider error.

Just read Schleck's account of the accident, and you're right -
entirely rider error.

There has been quite a discussion about Schleck going astray on
it.sport.ciclismo.
Unanimous consensus is that he got scared when he got to the middle of
the turn. A Swiss guy who knows that road quite well said that that
particular turn is quite tricky, as it does not appear to be so tight
until you are inside of it.
So, Andy appears to have panicked, unclipped without reason and did
not manouver correctly.
Rider's fault, in other words.

Could someone, please, report Schleck's original account?

Sergio
Pisa

DA

http://www.ticinolibero.ch/2008/06/18/tour-de-suisse-sfiorata-la-tragedia-con-andy-schleck/

Nella tappa odierna del Tour de Suisse con arrivo a Caslano,
nell’ultima discesa d’avvicinamento al traguardo, si é sfiorata la
tragedia. Andy Schleck nell’affrontare un tornante a destra, impostava
malamente la curva andando a sbattere contro il guard rail sulla
sinistra. Nell’impatto il corridore della CSC veniva sbalzato di
sotto, volando letteralmente oltre le protezioni. La fortuna o come
mostrato dallo stesso corridore, la medaglietta che portava al collo,
hanno evitato che precipitasse nella valle sottostante fermandosi
probabilmente sui bordi della stessa. Immediatamente ripresosi é poi
risalito in sella ed ha raggiunto il traguardo di Caslano, mostrando
al pubblico la sua medaglietta.

hENRY

In news:[email hidden],
Henry ebbe a scrivere con impudicizia:

Quoted message said:

Nella tappa odierna del Tour de Suisse con arrivo a Caslano,
nell'ultima discesa d'avvicinamento al traguardo, si é sfiorata la
tragedia. Andy Schleck nell'affrontare un tornante a destra, impostava
malamente la curva andando a sbattere contro il guard rail sulla
sinistra. Nell'impatto il corridore della CSC veniva sbalzato di
sotto, volando letteralmente oltre le protezioni. La fortuna o come
mostrato dallo stesso corridore, la medaglietta che portava al collo,
hanno evitato che precipitasse nella valle sottostante fermandosi
probabilmente sui bordi della stessa. Immediatamente ripresosi é poi
risalito in sella ed ha raggiunto il traguardo di Caslano, mostrando
al pubblico la sua medaglietta.

non ho mica capito a cosa dovrebbe rispondere sto articolo.
questa è la fredda cronaca vista da fuori, posto che IMNHO cmq non serve a
nulla sentire cosa dichiara Andy a meno di rotture/malfunzionamenti.
E' lampante che nello sbaglio di impostazione di una curva che chiude ha
fatto le scelte peggiori: frenare e togliere il peso dall' interno curva.
Adesso che faccio parte della categoria "ciclista" posso dirlo?
tutte bestie da tiro senza manico :-)
ciao

raamman said:

not severe flex, but just enough under load- or something else about the
frame- last year at the tdf there were a couple of occaisions where the
csc rider was unable to negoiate the curve on a descent, whereas other
riders did- anyone re-watching the tdf2007 dvds might just take a note of
the number of times a csc rider had trouble on a curve

So O'Grady could sue Cervelo.

Quoted message said:

On Jun 19, 8:23 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 05:09:31 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour

Quoted message said:

Partly.  There seemed to be a dark patch in the road - maybe oil? -
and that can happen to anybody.  It's tough when natural instinct
(putting a foot down) wins out over keeping your ass from flying off
an embankment.  He should have laid it down.

Yeah. Perhaps rider error, perhaps oil. If I heard later his tire
flatted just then I wouldn't be surprised either.  But NOT severe
frame flex for those bikes specifically.

not severe flex, but just enough under load- or something else about
the frame- last year at the tdf there were a couple of occaisions
where the csc rider was unable to negoiate the curve on a descent,
whereas other riders did- anyone re-watching the tdf2007 dvds might
just take a note of the number of times a csc rider had trouble on a
curve

No way. No way is such a phenomenon especially prevalent on one type
of high end bike and not others.

On Jun 20, 12:23 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 19, 8:23 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 05:09:31 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:
>Partly.  There seemed to be a dark patch in the road - maybe oil? -
>and that can happen to anybody.  It's tough when natural instinct
>(putting a foot down) wins out over keeping your ass from flying off
>an embankment.  He should have laid it down.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah. Perhaps rider error, perhaps oil. If I heard later his tire
flatted just then I wouldn't be surprised either.  But NOT severe
frame flex for those bikes specifically.

Quoted message said:

not severe flex, but just enough under load- or something else about
the frame- last year at the tdf there were a couple of occaisions
where the csc rider was unable to negoiate the curve on a descent,
whereas other riders did-  anyone re-watching the tdf2007 dvds might
just take a note of the number of times a csc rider had trouble on a
curve

No way.  No way is such a phenomenon especially prevalent on one type
of high end bike and not others.

The Cervelo R3 is supposed to be the stiffest frame in the pro tour.
As for the ability of the frame to stand stress, it is the one used by
Cancellara and O'Grady in their Paris-Roubaix wins (O'Grady used a
slightly modified geometry). Schleck was riding an R3-SL which is
essentially the same frame.

-ilan

Quoted message said:

On Jun 19, 8:23 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Yeah. Perhaps rider error, perhaps oil. If I heard later his tire
flatted just then I wouldn't be surprised either.  But NOT severe
frame flex for those bikes specifically.

not severe flex, but just enough under load- or something else about
the frame- last year at the tdf there were a couple of occaisions
where the csc rider was unable to negoiate the curve on a descent,
whereas other riders did-  anyone re-watching the tdf2007 dvds might
just take a note of the number of times a csc rider had trouble on a
curve

Side load on a head tube, or just about any frame
part, during a descent is essentially zero. Bicycles
lean into corners rather than scrubbing tires like cars.
I could see issues from either an ultra flexy fork or
flex in a really long steerer and headtube (which can
contribute to shimmy), but hardly any of these guys
ride such a frame.

If the CSC riders are falling down on curves, maybe
Bjarne needs to skip the commando training camp
before the season start next year, and take them
skiing or MTB'ing or down some hill steeper and
twistier than what they have in Denmark.

Ben

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 19, 8:23 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Yeah. Perhaps rider error, perhaps oil. If I heard later his tire
flatted just then I wouldn't be surprised either. But NOT severe
frame flex for those bikes specifically.

not severe flex, but just enough under load- or something else about
the frame- last year at the tdf there were a couple of occaisions
where the csc rider was unable to negoiate the curve on a descent,
whereas other riders did- anyone re-watching the tdf2007 dvds might
just take a note of the number of times a csc rider had trouble on a
curve

Side load on a head tube, or just about any frame
part, during a descent is essentially zero. Bicycles
lean into corners rather than scrubbing tires like cars.
I could see issues from either an ultra flexy fork or
flex in a really long steerer and headtube (which can
contribute to shimmy), but hardly any of these guys
ride such a frame.

If the CSC riders are falling down on curves, maybe
Bjarne needs to skip the commando training camp
before the season start next year, and take them
skiing or MTB'ing or down some hill steeper and
twistier than what they have in Denmark.

Ben

I understand the lateral stiffness, but, I am still confused about the
vertical compliance.

/dave a

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 19, 8:23 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Yeah. Perhaps rider error, perhaps oil. If I heard later his tire
flatted just then I wouldn't be surprised either.  But NOT severe
frame flex for those bikes specifically.

not severe flex, but just enough under load- or something else about
the frame- last year at the tdf there were a couple of occaisions
where the csc rider was unable to negoiate the curve on a descent,
whereas other riders did-  anyone re-watching the tdf2007 dvds might
just take a note of the number of times a csc rider had trouble on a
curve

Side load on a head tube, or just about any frame
part, during a descent is essentially zero. Bicycles
lean into corners rather than scrubbing tires like cars.
I could see issues from either an ultra flexy fork or
flex in a really long steerer and headtube (which can
contribute to shimmy), but hardly any of these guys
ride such a frame.

I do not think it is that simple.
What you describe is true for a constant curvature turn.
Descents require very hard changes in the
bicycle's aspect. This puts forces every
which way on the front of the bicycle.

--
Michael Press

On Jun 19, 6:23 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 19, 8:23 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 05:09:31 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:
>Partly.  There seemed to be a dark patch in the road - maybe oil? -
>and that can happen to anybody.  It's tough when natural instinct
>(putting a foot down) wins out over keeping your ass from flying off
>an embankment.  He should have laid it down.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah. Perhaps rider error, perhaps oil. If I heard later his tire
flatted just then I wouldn't be surprised either.  But NOT severe
frame flex for those bikes specifically.

Quoted message said:

not severe flex, but just enough under load- or something else about
the frame- last year at the tdf there were a couple of occaisions
where the csc rider was unable to negoiate the curve on a descent,
whereas other riders did-  anyone re-watching the tdf2007 dvds might
just take a note of the number of times a csc rider had trouble on a
curve

No way.  No way is such a phenomenon especially prevalent on one type
of high end bike and not others.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

watch the dvds; as I own a cervelo I am more aware of the brand and
was noticing those riders having problems on corners. it doesn't have
to flex at the head tube- just there's a problem, could be frame
alignment, whatever- there appears to be a tendancy to fail to
negotiate a curve on a fast descent, not just "little bobby j" riding.
keep an eye out this upcoming tdf for reoccurances