another reason to hate lawyers

hold my beer and watch this... said:

Those little tabs that come on all forks now that you have to file off.

This is one of these cultural things that shows up here every so often
and make me wonder which planet I'm on and which planet everyone else is
on...

Those little tabs that come on all forks now that you have to file off.

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Those little tabs that come on all forks now that you have to file off.

IIRC, they were thought up by the good folks at the Consumer Product Safety
Commission. Not all of them are lawyers, but the CPSC lawyers no doubt
drafted the rule.

It seems the rule has been relaxed or done away with. I have a Marin
Treviso built in Italy by Billato in 1999 that does not have the lawyer
lips. The Cannondale CAAD5 frame I bought in 2002 has them. Maybe the
Cannondale lawyers are to blame for that.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Those things have been called Lawyers' Lips for awhile.

Locally, I've heard them referred to as 'lawyer tabs.'

Quoted message said:

When was the last
time you bought a bike?

About 30 days ago.

And I filed off some lawyer tabs about 29 days, 23 hours and 55 minutes ago.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Those little tabs that come on all forks now that you have to file off.

Those things have been called Lawyers' Lips for awhile. When was the last
time you bought a bike?

I know that bike have had those things for many years now, but isn't it
still possible to get a fork (as in putting together your own frameset and
build kit) without the "lips"? Does literally every fork sold in the US now
have those things, or just complete bikes?

hold my beer and watch this... said:

Those little tabs that come on all forks now that you have to file off.

It's not just the lawyers, they have help from guys like US
cycling legend John Howard who was willing to lie under
oath in order to earn an expert witness fee.

http://www.swhlaw.com/cyclwin.htm
---------
Howard said secondary retention is more important on mountain bikes than
on road bikes. The adjusting nut on the skewer can vibrate loose over
time, he said. "Mountain bikes see more abuse. Those threads will
back-off after a time. The process by which that occurs is not entirely
clear to me, but threads do not stay tight under constant vibration and
I think I successfully convinced the jury of that," he said.
---------

What horseshit!

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

Chris said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Those little tabs that come on all forks now that you have to file off.

Those things have been called Lawyers' Lips for awhile. When was the last
time you bought a bike?

I know that bike have had those things for many years now, but isn't it
still possible to get a fork (as in putting together your own frameset and
build kit) without the "lips"? Does literally every fork sold in the US now
have those things, or just complete bikes?

Admittedly they are a nuisance, but probably a necessary one.

If they really annoy you, file them off or find a fork that doesn't have them.

--
le Vent a Dos, Davey Crockett
Six Day Site: http://sixday.741.com/
Latest news at http://sixday.741.com/news.html

B. Lafferty said:

IIRC, they were thought up by the good folks at the Consumer Product
Safety Commission. Not all of them are lawyers, but the CPSC lawyers
no doubt drafted the rule.

16 CFR 1512.12(c) says

"Front hubs not equipped with lever-operated quick-release devices shall
have a positive retention feature that shall be tested in accordance with
the front hub retention test, Sec. 1512.18(j) (3), to assure that when the
locking devices are released the wheel will not separate from the fork."

Perhaps I read that incorrectly but I think that exempts quick-release
wheels.

Quoted message said:

Admittedly they are a nuisance, but probably a necessary one.

If they really annoy you, file them off or find a fork that doesn't have

them.

Quoted message said:

15 or so years ago, I was second in line in a group heading south on US 101
and as we crossed over the Refugio Rd. bridge going 25-30 mph, the guy in
front went to bunny hop the little lip in the pavement and, jeezus h, his
front wheel came out. You can imagine the nightmarish physics of what
ensued. What goes through your mind in that split second between when you
realize your wheel is out and when your fork tips hit the pavement?

In his case, he had changed a front flat about 20 minutes earlier and
somehow just didn't finish the job.

I don't file mine off because the chance of a brain lapse is not zero, and
the need for a 30-second wheel change versus a 40-second wheel change is not
that critical for 99.9% of us hacks.

Mark Fennell said:

Quoted message said:

Admittedly they are a nuisance, but probably a necessary one.

If they really annoy you, file them off or find a fork that doesn't have

them.

Quoted message said:

15 or so years ago, I was second in line in a group heading south on US 101
and as we crossed over the Refugio Rd. bridge going 25-30 mph, the guy in
front went to bunny hop the little lip in the pavement and, jeezus h, his
front wheel came out. You can imagine the nightmarish physics of what
ensued. What goes through your mind in that split second between when you
realize your wheel is out and when your fork tips hit the pavement?

In his case, he had changed a front flat about 20 minutes earlier and
somehow just didn't finish the job.

I don't file mine off because the chance of a brain lapse is not zero, and
the need for a 30-second wheel change versus a 40-second wheel change is not
that critical for 99.9% of us hacks.

I never file mine off when a fork comes equipped with them.

They are in fact a reasonable safety precaution for perhaps 99.9% of cyclists.

--
le Vent a Dos, Davey Crockett
Six Day Site: http://sixday.741.com/
Latest news at http://sixday.741.com/news.html

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Those little tabs that come on all forks now that you have to file off.

Quoted message said:

It seems the rule has been relaxed or done away with. I have a Marin

Treviso built in Italy by Billato in 1999 that does not have the lawyer
lips. The Cannondale CAAD5 frame I bought in 2002 has them. >

My '04 Trek 5900 doesn't them. Not sure if the bike shop filed them off for
me, or if it didn't come with them for some reason. My '02 5200 had them...

There's no way the LBS would file those tabs off, for legal reasons. Most
shops are so retentive they insist on new bikes leaving the shop with
reflectors! Therefore, possibly the folks at trek omitted them from the
latest high end fork dropouts. One could surmise Trek's legal team has more
muscle than those of an LBS...

--
--------------------------
Andre Charlebois
AGC-PC support
http://agc-pc.tripod.com
BPE, MCSE4.0, CNA, A+

"Suz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Those little tabs that come on all forks now that you have to file off.

> It seems the rule has been relaxed or done away with. I have a Marin

Treviso built in Italy by Billato in 1999 that does not have the lawyer
lips. The Cannondale CAAD5 frame I bought in 2002 has them. >

My '04 Trek 5900 doesn't them. Not sure if the bike shop filed them off

for

Quoted message said:

me, or if it didn't come with them for some reason. My '02 5200 had

them...

Quoted message said:

Andre said:

There's no way the LBS would file those tabs off, for legal reasons. Most
shops are so retentive they insist on new bikes leaving the shop with
reflectors! Therefore, possibly the folks at trek omitted them from the
latest high end fork dropouts. One could surmise Trek's legal team has more
muscle than those of an LBS...

Actually, the reflectors are required by law for standard
production road bikes:

http://www.cpsc.gov/BUSINFO/regsumbicycles.pdf

Mark McMaster
[email hidden]

"Andre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There's no way the LBS would file those tabs off, for legal reasons. Most
shops are so retentive they insist on new bikes leaving the shop with
reflectors! Therefore, possibly the folks at trek omitted them from the
latest high end fork dropouts. One could surmise Trek's legal team has

more

Quoted message said:

muscle than those of an LBS...

And they need it too, because of the "deep pockets" principle. Trek's
exposure is far greater than any LBS.

Suz said:

My '04 Trek 5900 doesn't them. Not sure if the bike shop filed them off for
me, or if it didn't come with them for some reason. My '02 5200 had them...

Looking at the Trek web site, the 5900 has a Bontrager [censored]-Lite
fork, and the 5500 & 5200 (the '04 at least -- I didn't see info
on the '02) have the Bontrager Race-Lite. Looking at the pictures
on Bontrager's web site, it looks like the [censored]-Lite does not have
the lips, but the other forks do.

Larry Coon
University of California