Another noob question...

mike said:

Do muscles only form and get bigger WHILE were working out...or can
it happen afterwards too? Like after weight lifting alot and
drinking more protein... Can muscles develop during that time also?

During a workout lifters generally get a "pump." The muscles fill
with blood and they look and feel larger than normal. However, this
doesn't mean that your muscles are actually growing during the
workout. In fact, just the opposite is happening. During a workout
you break down your muscles and force your body to repair them.

That's why proper rest is so important and why over-training can cause
you to lose muscle instead of gain. Your muscles grow while you rest.

Quoted message said:

I usually drink my protein shakes Before, During and After my
workouts...

Nutrition is a whole 'nother kettle o' fish. Lot's of protein is
good. Pretty much everyone that isn't an out right quack agrees with
that. Most "experts" will tell you that protein right after a workout
is especially important. I tend to be hungry after a workout, so it
works for me 🙂.

Jason

mike said:

Do muscles only form and get bigger WHILE were working out...or can

it

Quoted message said:

happen afterwards too? Like after weight lifting alot and drinking

more

Quoted message said:

protein... Can muscles develop during that time also?

I usually drink my protein shakes Before, During and After my

workouts...

Quoted message said:

Wow, that's a lot of protein shake drinking.

L

"Jason Earl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

mike said:

Do muscles only form and get bigger WHILE were working out...or can
it happen afterwards too? Like after weight lifting alot and
drinking more protein... Can muscles develop during that time also?

During a workout lifters generally get a "pump." The muscles fill
with blood and they look and feel larger than normal. However, this
doesn't mean that your muscles are actually growing during the
workout. In fact, just the opposite is happening. During a workout
you break down your muscles and force your body to repair them.

That's why proper rest is so important and why over-training can cause
you to lose muscle instead of gain. Your muscles grow while you rest.

Quoted message said:

I usually drink my protein shakes Before, During and After my
workouts...

Nutrition is a whole 'nother kettle o' fish. Lot's of protein is
good. Pretty much everyone that isn't an out right quack agrees with
that. Most "experts" will tell you that protein right after a workout
is especially important. I tend to be hungry after a workout, so it
works for me 🙂.

Jason

Thanks Jason.. i think im gonna print this one up..good advice

mike

"mike" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jason Earl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

mike said:

Do muscles only form and get bigger WHILE were working out...or can
it happen afterwards too? Like after weight lifting alot and
drinking more protein... Can muscles develop during that time also?

During a workout lifters generally get a "pump." The muscles fill
with blood and they look and feel larger than normal. However, this
doesn't mean that your muscles are actually growing during the
workout. In fact, just the opposite is happening. During a workout
you break down your muscles and force your body to repair them.

That's why proper rest is so important and why over-training can cause
you to lose muscle instead of gain. Your muscles grow while you rest.

Quoted message said:

I usually drink my protein shakes Before, During and After my
workouts...

Nutrition is a whole 'nother kettle o' fish. Lot's of protein is
good. Pretty much everyone that isn't an out right quack agrees with
that. Most "experts" will tell you that protein right after a workout
is especially important. I tend to be hungry after a workout, so it
works for me 🙂.

Jason

Thanks Jason.. i think im gonna print this one up..good advice

mike

Another thing to keep in mind (that a lot of newbies don't realize) is that
your protein needs last longer than an hour. Hell, 24 hours after a workout
your body is still recovering so don't lower you protein intake on "off"
days, keep it fairly consistent all days.

DZ said:

Jason Earl said:

Nutrition is a whole 'nother kettle o' fish. Lot's of protein is
good. Pretty much everyone that isn't an out right quack agrees
with that.

Not so. For a more balanced view:

This paper - http://tinyurl.com/4absn - suggests that excessive
protein may compromise anabolic environment over a training
program. When they statistically controlled fat total and relative
intake, substantial negative correlation between testosterone levels
and protein intake still remained.

That's very interesting. I wish that I could read the entire paper.

The results suggest the possible role of diet leading to
alterations in serum T and FT during prolonged strength
training, and that diets with insufficient fat and/or excessive
protein may compromise the anabolic hormonal environment over a
training program.

I would especially be interested in knowing what the report would
consider "insufficient fat" and "excessive protein." I don't eat the
1.5 to 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight that I have seen in
so much of the strength training literature, but I have noticed a
measurable increase in performance and a noticeable difference in
appearance since I started eating more protein. Of course, my shift
towards eating more protein was also accompanied by a shift towards
more frequent smaller meals and an overall increase in the amount of
calories that I get (at least I think I get more calories, I didn't
track calories before 🙂, and so there are quite a few variables
involved.

Just out of curiosity what sort of diet do you suggest?

Quoted message said:

Also see this - http://tinyurl.com/3jurp - "All things considered,
it is abundantly clear that any protein requirement set for
strength-training athletes is of little relevance".

This didn't appear to be a study at all, but rather a summary of
several other studies. One of the studies showed that strength
trained athletes have higher protein needs, and a second showed that
strength trained athletes are more efficient at using protein. The
author then concludes that strength training athletes don't need more
than the recommended 12-15% of their calories from protein.

Perhaps the abstract decided to skip the bit where you explain the
actual experiment, but it would appear to me that the "researcher"
simply took the model of saying:

Positive Nitrogen Balance + Positive Energy Balance =
Anabolism

Which is more than a bit simplistic. Besides, I already know that I
can get anabolism from strength training without paying any attention
to diet at all. If am going to be paying attention to what I eat then
I want maximum results, and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that
links higher protein intake to higher performance. Just walk into any
gym and ask the five largest guys how much protein they eat.

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the citations. I am
relatively new to this whole fitness thing, and I find it absolutely
fascinating. One thing is certain, the whole subject of nutrition is
ridiculously complicated. There is simply too much stuff that we
don't know.

I would be very interested in hearing what sort of diet you would
suggest. I saw the video clip you posted this week and was
impressed. Besides, it's springtime. It's time to mix things up a
bit anyhow.

Thanks,
Jason

DZ said:

Jason Earl said:

DZ writes:

[...]

Quoted message said:

I would be very interested in hearing what sort of diet you would
suggest.

Jason - I'm not an expert on nutrition or exercise and I don't pretend
to be one. I'm just wandering around blindfolded picking up things
here and there. I can't possibly suggest a diet - my purpose of
posting things like that:

Often I feel that recommendations on frequency of food intake and
protein requirements are presented without considering another point
of view that exists - that "pulse feeding" / moderate intake can be
optimal. I haven't seen good arguments against it and I'm willing to
change my views when I see them. Most importantly, I'd like this
problem considered from fitness AND long term health / longevity
perspectives at the same time.

And your own diet is hardly the epitome of sound healthy eating!! ;o)

HAGW!!

DZ said:

Jason Earl said:

DZ writes:

[...]

Quoted message said:

I would be very interested in hearing what sort of diet you would
suggest.

Jason - I'm not an expert on nutrition or exercise and I don't
pretend to be one. I'm just wandering around blindfolded picking up
things here and there. I can't possibly suggest a diet - my purpose
of posting things like that:

Ah, my friend. It's the guys that tell me that they have the
definitive answer that scares me. On the other hand, when someone
points me to research that suggests that there may be a better way I
find that very helpful. I *like* doing research, and one of the major
reasons that I lift weights, exercise, and watch what I eat is that I
like being able to "hack" my body. I consider myself an experiment
with a very small sample size 🙂. Modifying how I eat for a couple of
months isn't particularly dangerous (within reason), and I really am
interested in finding out more about how my body responds to different
training and diet regimens.

Quoted message said:

Often I feel that recommendations on frequency of food intake and
protein requirements are presented without considering another point
of view that exists - that "pulse feeding" / moderate intake can be
optimal. I haven't seen good arguments against it and I'm willing to
change my views when I see them. Most importantly, I'd like this
problem considered from fitness AND long term health / longevity
perspectives at the same time.

I was a little worried from that introduction that you weren't
actually going to give me a clue as to what sort of diet regimen you
would recommend. Don't worry friend, I will do my own research and
come to my own conclusions. Like you I am just looking for clues.

A quick google got me these two articles:

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/haycock/protein-pulse-feeding.htm

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/69/6/1202

The second article appears to be the major study cited in the first
article where protein retention was measured in elderly women.

When I have time later I will try and see if I can't look up the
papers that it cites. The huge benefit of this sort of a diet is that
my day wouldn't necessarily revolve around eating, and I was looking
at starting a "cutting" phase to prepare for Summer anyhow. At a
cursory glance this sort of diet looks both reasonable and manageable.

Thanks again for the information, I truly appreciate it.

Jason

DZ said:

Jason Earl said:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/4absn

I would especially be interested in knowing what the report would
consider "insufficient fat" and "excessive protein."

They don't say what that would be specifically. They looked at the
range 1-3 g/kg for protein and 0.6-1.8 for fat. Both show linear
relation with T levels (decreasing for protein, increasing for fat).

Woohoo, I like fat 🙂. Fat tastes delicious.

I currently weight 210 lbs (95 kg) and I get between 150 and 180g of
protein a day, so even on a low day I am still a good 50% over the low
end of the measured scale. I don't currently keep track of how much
fat I am getting (I track protein and calories), but I wouldn't be
surprised if I am under the 57g that is the low end for this study. I
might have to go over my food log and work some calculations.

Thanks again for the information.