Another "feat"

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've used yaktrax in combination with regular running shoes usccesfully
for running on snow & ice.

Must be a lighter option than snow shoes and/or crampons surely.

review here:

http://ultrarunner.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=55&Itemid
=147

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have both the original yaktrax and the pro - both are left in my
closet for the most part. In my experience they are worse than no
traction device at all on ice. They don't have anything sharp on them to
penetrate ice. They also elevate your normal tread above the ice, so the
only thing in contact with the ice is those smooth coils as I go sliding
downhill. They're ok for snow, and I've used them there, but they're
dangerous on ice, esp. the pro model. My experience is consistent with
many other runners.

I agree, they totally suck on ice!

Quoted message said:

If it's icy, I tend to use Icejoggers (GetAGrip) since their studs hold
somewhat like car studs. The spikes aren't so tall that they're
uncomfortable to wear. Easy on / easy off for parking lots also.

If it's mixed snow and ice and things in between, I use Stabilicer
sports - a screw shoe bottom that you can strap on. They also use a soft
rubber that protrudes between the spikes, so that provides additional
traction. (I believe some NEOS overshoes now come with these stabilicer
studs built in.) They are much harder to put on than the ice joggers,
and they really need to improve that part of the design. On continuous
hard ice, I find these too aggressive and my shins usually end up
hurting, which is why I use the Icejoggers in those cases. I think the
screws protrude more than regular screw shoes. But if the whole area is
encased in ice, I just don't bother anymore. It's not worth the
additional recovery time.

These stabilicers look very interesting for general winter trail wear.

Quoted message said:

Many people use screw shoes, which would be much better than yaktrax,
imho. I haven't tried them, but they're common here.
http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm

I haven't tried them, but Kahtoolas are supposed to be a lightweight
crampon for running deeper snow, maybe with ice underneath. Very
aggressive, and they're pricey.

I really like the looks of these for general winter running/hiking on
moderately steep slopes, and these would be great to have along with
snowshoes. (They're flexible crampons that work with running shoes or
whatever) www.kahtoola.com But for the feat that's the subject of this
thread, real crampons appeared to be necessary, as he was front-pointing in
some sections, and these kahtoola's don't appear to be designed for that,
though they might work for short stints. When all your weight is on the
front points you need stiff boots and equally stiff crampons.

Quoted message said:

Icebug running shoes are also available. I've heard some good comments
about them, but I've also heard they're fairly stiff.

But if you're on a 30% slope with a couple inches of solid ice, it's
hard for any of these devices to provide enough traction for a safe run
/ hike up and especially down. On short slopes (say, 30 ft vertical or
shorter), sometimes a *really* fast cadence with one of these can get
you down in one piece.

The ultra runners in Anchorage use ice axes and running crampons (not
sure of brand) for some of their winter runs.

You're a great source of info on winter products Dot, please keep it coming
when you find out new stuff.

-Tony

Quoted message said:

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

mmm interesting stuff.... i had terrible trouble finding out about any
of these kinds of products when i was looking.

let alone sourcing them in europe. (even though icebug are a swedish
company!)

Tony S. said:

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

These stabilicers look very interesting for general winter trail wear.

I like them a lot, as long as the ice isn't long expanses of solid ice.
That's like running on concrete with spikes. Some day I'm going to
e-mail the manufacturer with some suggestions on their upper design
since it's hard to put on and sometimes stretches toe-ward and the
extended toe may trip a person, esp. in hayfields.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I haven't tried them, but Kahtoolas are supposed to be a lightweight
crampon for running deeper snow, maybe with ice underneath. Very
aggressive, and they're pricey.

I really like the looks of these for general winter running/hiking on
moderately steep slopes, and these would be great to have along with
snowshoes. (They're flexible crampons that work with running shoes or
whatever) www.kahtoola.com

My gut feeling is that may be what the Anchorage runners-with-ice-axes
are using, but I'm not sure.

But for the feat that's the subject of this

Quoted message said:

thread, real crampons appeared to be necessary, as he was front-pointing in
some sections, and these kahtoola's don't appear to be designed for that,
though they might work for short stints. When all your weight is on the
front points you need stiff boots and equally stiff crampons.

Right.

Quoted message said:

You're a great source of info on winter products Dot, please keep it coming
when you find out new stuff.

Thanks. 5 yrs ago I was a clueless newbie and have learned a little bit
each year, first from Doug, Lorne Sundby, and Bill LaDieu, then other
online websites, local papers, and runners or other trail users. Each
winter dishes up a new set of conditions that I have to learn new
techniques for, with this one being the most frustrating.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Quoted message said:

mmm interesting stuff.... i had terrible trouble finding out about any
of these kinds of products when i was looking.

let alone sourcing them in europe. (even though icebug are a swedish
company!)

It helps when the local trail users provide gear shows with about every
known device on the trail on any given day.😉 And the Anchorage
newspaper has had reviews also. Not to mention the web pages for the
various winter races. It helps to know that products even exist and
their name, to be able to google for some of these things. I know I'm
always seeing new stuff.

Sorry, I can't help you with a European source.😉 But you might look
toward Italy and Germany. The Italians tend to do well in winter foot
races over here - the 1100 mile kind. But I don't know if they'd have
need for traction devices as much as we do.

If you're interested in other gear, here's some winter gear tips:
http://www.susitna100.com/YourGear.html

If you're looking for running snowshoe info, here's a starting page (a
lot of people had no idea where to start and this was just intended to
point people in the right direction), but North American sources:
http://home.att.net/~akrunning/SSRunFAQ/index.html
I'll probably expand that in the future and maybe add a page on traction
devices and other tidbits on running in winter.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Something I thought of later last night regarding European sources.
Anders from Finland posts here, and he has frequently alerted us to new
products coming to market from the Fennoscandinavian countries -
including the icebugs and Polar S625sx (irrelevant to present
discussion). We patiently wait for appearance of various products in US
while they're be used many places in Europe. He's probably more familiar
with European sources than most of us would be.

Dot said:

Anders [...] has frequently alerted us to new products coming to market
from the Fennoscandinavian countries

Yeah, but he never mentioned this:

http://www.memoriesoffinland.com/product.asp?productid=HS30024

They work pretty well, it turns out. :-)