Another Farcility

the distiinction is between "no entry" and "no vehicles". You can push
a cycle through either, but if it is "no entry" you can expect vehicles
to be coming towards you. If it is "no vehicles", you can expect the
road to be free of traffic in both directions.

iakobski said:

the distiinction is between "no entry" and "no vehicles". You can push
a cycle through either, but if it is "no entry" you can expect vehicles
to be coming towards you. If it is "no vehicles", you can expect the
road to be free of traffic in both directions.

Unless its like the Winchester 'pedestrianised' High Street where one
entrance has the 'no vehicle' sign and another has 'no motor vehicles'.

John B

JohnB said:

iakobski said:

the distiinction is between "no entry" and "no vehicles". You can push
a cycle through either, but if it is "no entry" you can expect vehicles
to be coming towards you. If it is "no vehicles", you can expect the
road to be free of traffic in both directions.

Unless its like the Winchester 'pedestrianised' High Street where one
entrance has the 'no vehicle' sign and another has 'no motor vehicles'.

John B

Hmmm; No motor vehicles should be the Evil Knevil motorbike over car
sign. No Entry (with nothing else) means nothing apart from foot
traffic and pushed bikes on the pavement. No vehicles means bikes are
allowed is my guess, whether pushed or ridden.

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hmmm; No motor vehicles should be the Evil Knevil motorbike over car
sign. No Entry (with nothing else) means nothing apart from foot
traffic and pushed bikes on the pavement. No vehicles means bikes are
allowed is my guess, whether pushed or ridden.

(presumably you missed a 'Not' there?)

If you can't push a bike, you can't push a pram - same rules. I'm not sure
what the letter of the law is (or if it's been refined by case law), but the
effect is that you can push a bike.

cheers,
clive

"MartinM" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

JohnB said:

iakobski said:

the distiinction is between "no entry" and "no vehicles". You can push
a cycle through either, but if it is "no entry" you can expect vehicles
to be coming towards you. If it is "no vehicles", you can expect the
road to be free of traffic in both directions.

Unless its like the Winchester 'pedestrianised' High Street where one
entrance has the 'no vehicle' sign and another has 'no motor vehicles'.

John B

Quoted message said:

Hmmm; No motor vehicles should be the Evil Knevil motorbike over car
sign. No Entry (with nothing else) means nothing apart from foot
traffic and pushed bikes on the pavement. No vehicles means bikes are
allowed is my guess, whether pushed or ridden.

Umm..no. A red circle with a white field and nothing else means 'No
Vehicles' *including* bicycles.

Pushed bikes would probably be allowed, but must NOT be ridden.

As others have posted No Entry means you can't go in this way. It
doesn't mean things won't be coming out. 'Evil Knievil' does indeed mean
no _motor_ vehicles.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

Umm..no. A red circle with a white field and nothing else means 'No Vehicles' *including* bicycles.

No, afraid not, A red circle with a white field means "No vehicles
except bicycles being pushed". Source:
www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs04.htm

I emailed Department for Transport yesterday seeking clarification as
to whether you can push a bicycle past a no entry sign, and if you can
what the empty red circle sign is all about. I'll post the reply when
received.

Quoted message said:

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

Umm..no. A red circle with a white field and nothing else means 'No Vehicles' *including* bicycles.

Pushed bikes would probably be allowed, but must NOT be ridden.

No, afraid not, A red circle with a white field means "No vehicles
except bicycles being pushed". Source:
www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs04.htm

So your quibble is that Helen should have said "Pushed bikes are allowed"
not "Pushed bikes would probably be allowed"?

JohnB said:

iakobski said:

the distiinction is between "no entry" and "no vehicles". You can push
a cycle through either, but if it is "no entry" you can expect vehicles
to be coming towards you. If it is "no vehicles", you can expect the
road to be free of traffic in both directions.

Unless its like the Winchester 'pedestrianised' High Street where one
entrance has the 'no vehicle' sign and another has 'no motor vehicles'.

The other anomaly is due to the rule that you are not allowed to put
'except cycles' below a no entry sign. (Yes, I know it happens anyway.)

If you wish to convey that all vehicles can be ridden/driven through
one way, but only cycles can be ridden the other way, you have to use
the Evel Knievel sign (or make a separate entrance for cyclists which
can be signed separately).

Colin McKenzie

Question asked to Traffic Management (Traffic Signs and Road Markings)
section, Department for Transport:
"I wonder if you could clarify whether a bicycle being pushed along a
highway can be pushed past a No Entry ("No entry for vehicular
traffic"😉 sign. If it can, please clarify the difference with a "No
vehicles except bicycles being pushed" sign."

Reply:
"Unfortunately I am not able to answer your question. I can only
suggest that you seek legal advice for the difference between the two
signs, there may be a precedent set by case law. However, I can tell
you that traffic signs are prescribed in the Traffic Signs Regulations
and General Directions 2002 , Statutory Instrument No 3113 (these can
be viewed online at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023113.htm ) and
the caption to diagram 617, the no entry sign, reads " All vehicles
prohibited except non-mechanically propelled vehicles being pushed by
pedestrians".

Well, that was a great help! ;-)

At 3 Jul 2005 13:24:40 -0700, message
<[email hidden]> was posted by
"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>,
including some, all or none of the following:

Quoted message said:

the no entry sign, reads " All vehicles
prohibited except non-mechanically propelled vehicles being pushed by
pedestrians".
Well, that was a great help! ;-)

It was indeed: a bicycle being pushed is a non-mechanically propelled
vehicle being pushed by a pedestrian.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

Quoted message said:

Question asked to Traffic Management (Traffic Signs and Road Markings)
section, Department for Transport:
"I wonder if you could clarify whether a bicycle being pushed along a
highway can be pushed past a No Entry ("No entry for vehicular
traffic"😉 sign. If it can, please clarify the difference with a "No
vehicles except bicycles being pushed" sign."

Reply:
"Unfortunately I am not able to answer your question. I can only
suggest that you seek legal advice for the difference between the two
signs, there may be a precedent set by case law. However, I can tell
you that traffic signs are prescribed in the Traffic Signs Regulations
and General Directions 2002 , Statutory Instrument No 3113 (these can
be viewed online at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023113.htm ) and
the caption to diagram 617, the no entry sign, reads " All vehicles
prohibited except non-mechanically propelled vehicles being pushed by
pedestrians".

Well, that was a great help! ;-)

The correct answer is that as long as you are pushing it with both feet
on the ground (i.e. not scooting with one foot on a pedal) you are
classed as a "foot passenger". The precedent is the aptly titled Crank
v Brooks 1980 RTR441

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

Tony Raven said:

The correct answer is that as long as you are pushing it with both feet
on the ground (i.e. not scooting with one foot on a pedal) you are
classed as a "foot passenger". The precedent is the aptly titled Crank
v Brooks 1980 RTR441

What if you are running, ie when at any one time you only have one foot
in contact with the ground?

John B

JohnB said:

Tony Raven said:

The correct answer is that as long as you are pushing it with both feet
on the ground (i.e. not scooting with one foot on a pedal) you are
classed as a "foot passenger". The precedent is the aptly titled Crank
v Brooks 1980 RTR441

What if you are running, ie when at any one time you only have one foot
in contact with the ground?

Or if you are wearing shoes so your feet are not in fact touching the
ground.....

Groan.

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon