another epo question for a non competitor

JungleJesus said:

epo used as a training tool to both boost ride times, distance and to help burn fat, is it very dangerous and would it actually do all the above?

You will be thin but you might wake up DEAD with a blood clot. Also, who knows what happens long term.

JungleJesus said:

epo used as a training tool to both boost ride times, distance and to help burn fat, is it very dangerous and would it actually do all the above?

this is strictly a self improvment question about epo use, in no way do i want the answers to be aimed toward what race results or how it is cheating cause I already know those facts and agree.

You would probably have better luck with a stack of HGH and Test Cypionate. Your recovery would speed up dramatically and you would be able to burn bodyfat on a diet of pizza and ice cream.

This is not a drug that one can simply try.

Why is everybody after the quick fix!!!!

Ride, ride, ride, ride and when no one else will ride, keep riding🙂

JungleJesus said:

epo used as a training tool to both boost ride times, distance and to help burn fat, is it very dangerous and would it actually do all the above?

this is strictly a self improvment question about epo use, in no way do i want the answers to be aimed toward what race results or how it is cheating cause I already know those facts and agree.

Epo is simply a natural substance that is produced by your body in response to the need to transport oxygen through the blood stream. It's secretion by the kidneys sends a signal to your bone marrow to produce more cells that will mature into red blood cells (which are what oxygen molecules attach themselves to in the lungs and are released from at the tissue level - in cycling, namely in the skeletal muscles of the legs and the liver). And that's all that epo does, stimulate the production of red blood cells....nothing bad there.
The consequences of this is the benefit/big problem.
The "benefit" is an increase in oxygen transport, and subsequently: decreased use of carbohydrate and an increase use of lipids at any given power output; increased lactate threshold; increased aerobic endurance; increased max aerobic power.
The problem is that your blood chemistry is a closely regulated mix of several ingredients, balanced by your body in a way that is crucial to proper systemic function (I say systemic because many interwoven systems are involved, not just the cardiovascular system). Add too many of a certain ingredient (eg: red blood cells) and the system is thrown out of wack. Unfortunately in this case, too many red blood cells means the viscosity of your blood increases to a point where it begins to clog up at the capilary level. In other words, heart attack, stroke, pulmonary edema, etc. 🙁
This is why you have to go to medical school for years to handle this sort of stuff....yes, it's very dangerous.

Smartt/RST said:

Epo is simply a natural substance that is produced by your body in response to the need to transport oxygen through the blood stream. It's secretion by the kidneys sends a signal to your bone marrow to produce more cells that will mature into red blood cells (which are what oxygen molecules attach themselves to in the lungs and are released from at the tissue level - in cycling, namely in the skeletal muscles of the legs and the liver). And that's all that epo does, stimulate the production of red blood cells....nothing bad there.
The consequences of this is the benefit/big problem.
The "benefit" is an increase in oxygen transport, and subsequently: decreased use of carbohydrate and an increase use of lipids at any given power output; increased lactate threshold; increased aerobic endurance; increased max aerobic power.
The problem is that your blood chemistry is a closely regulated mix of several ingredients, balanced by your body in a way that is crucial to proper systemic function (I say systemic because many interwoven systems are involved, not just the cardiovascular system). Add too many of a certain ingredient (eg: red blood cells) and the system is thrown out of wack. Unfortunately in this case, too many red blood cells means the viscosity of your blood increases to a point where it begins to clog up at the capilary level. In other words, heart attack, stroke, pulmonary edema, etc. 🙁
This is why you have to go to medical school for years to handle this sort of stuff....yes, it's very dangerous.

thanks this is the best discription of what and how epo works, that anyone has ever given me.

I was not looking for a quick fix i am only 15 pounds from my goal, and i should hit that in about a month or so. I am doing it with hard work and lots of effort.

Smartt/RST said:

Add too many of a certain ingredient (eg: red blood cells) and the system is thrown out of wack. Unfortunately in this case, too many red blood cells means the viscosity of your blood increases to a point where it begins to clog up at the capilary level. In other words, heart attack, stroke, pulmonary edema, etc. 🙁

Additionally, in many situations supplementation of natural hormones leads to an inability to produce these substances endogenously. It is likely this applies to EPO and I think this is starting to become apparent in studies on renal failure patients. A number of people suggest that EPO is safe because blood parameters can be monitored. Even if you get this done, it's still not a great idea.

More generally: in considering whether or not a drug is 'safe' it is important to consider the context in which it has been tested - EPO may be 'safe' in cancer patients, but this doesn't mean that the attendant risks are reasonable for healthy individuals.

Quoted post said:

This is why you have to go to medical school for years to handle this sort of stuff....yes, it's very dangerous.

Damn straight!

Roadie_scum said:

Additionally, in many situations supplementation of natural hormones leads to an inability to produce these substances endogenously. It is likely this applies to EPO and I think this is starting to become apparent in studies on renal failure patients. A number of people suggest that EPO is safe because blood parameters can be monitored. Even if you get this done, it's still not a great idea.

More generally: in considering whether or not a drug is 'safe' it is important to consider the context in which it has been tested - EPO may be 'safe' in cancer patients, but this doesn't mean that the attendant risks are reasonable for healthy individuals.

Damn straight!

if all you want to do is burn body fat; hydroxycitrate

closesupport said:

if all you want to do is burn body fat; hydroxycitrate

If all you want to do is burn fat - sit still. Everyone falls about laughing at my joke regarding the high rate of lipolysis at rest. Guffaw.

Roadie_scum said:

If all you want to do is burn fat - sit still. Everyone falls about laughing at my joke regarding the high rate of lipolysis at rest. Guffaw.

Extract from the citrus fruit Garcinia found in Asia and India. HCA has been used in weight loss since 1969.

Inhibits enzyme known as ATP-citrate lyase, which is the major enzyme responsible for the production of fatty acids. Because of the inhibition a build-up of citrate occurs. That buildup may cause the cell to inhibit the breakdown of stored sugar. It also may increase glucogen storage resulting in a feeling of fullness as gluco-receptors in liver activate vegas nerve.

Animal research, suggests that HCA may be a useful weight loss aid. HCA has been demonstrated in the laboratory to reduce the conversion of carbohydrates into stored fat by inhibiting certain enzymes processes.
Animal research indicates that HCA suppresses appetite and induces weight loss.

One case report found that eating 1 gram of the fruit containing HCA before each meal resulted in the loss of 1 pound per day. potent inhibitor of ATP citrate-lyase, was tested in Hep G2 cells for effects on cholesterol homoeostasis. After 2.5 h and 18 h incubations with (-)-hydroxycitrate at concentrations of 0.5 mM or higher, incorporation of [1,5-14C]citrate into fatty acids and cholesterol was strongly inhibited.

This most likely reflects an effective inhibition of ATP citrate-lyase. Cholesterol biosynthesis was decreased to 27% of the control value as measured by incorporations from 3H2O, indicating a decreased flux of carbon units through the cholesterol-synthetic pathway. After 18 h preincubation with 2 mM-(-)-hydroxycitrate, the cellular low-density-lipoprotein (LDL) receptor activity was increased by 50%, as determined by the receptor-mediated association and degradation.

Measurements of receptor-mediated binding versus LDL concentration suggests that this increase was due to an increase in the numbers of LDL receptors. Simultaneously, enzyme levels of 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl-CoA (HMG-CoA) reductase as determined by activity measurements increased 30-fold. Results suggest that the increases in HMG-CoA reductase and the LDL receptor are initiated by the decreased flux of carbon units in the cholesterol-synthetic pathway, owing to inhibition of ATP citratelyase.

A similar induction of HMG-CoA reductase and LDL receptor was also found after preincubations of cells with 0.3 microM-mevinolin, suggesting that the underlying mechanism for this induction is identical for both drugs.

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