Ankling or "Heels down"

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by beels99
I have just learned about this technique and I am wondering what the rest of you experience cyclers have to say about this technique. I have heard from most people that it really helps their speed and pedaling efficiency. But I have also heard that if you do it too much it can cause damage to your achilles tendon and such.

Just wondering on what the rest of you have to say about it.

I remember starting out Early one spring doing a great deal of 'Ankling' as I was spinning. I developed a bad case of inflamed tendons and muscles in my shin. (Felt just like shin splints which I thought you could only get while running). My wife (a physical therapist) suggested I ice them, and that took care if it! 😉

I will vary my pedaling between the two now after a couple hundred base miles, ankling primarily on the flats, and going heels down while climbing.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by beels99
I have just learned about this technique and I am wondering what the rest of you experience cyclers have to say about this technique. I have heard from most people that it really helps their speed and pedaling efficiency. But I have also heard that if you do it too much it can cause damage to your achilles tendon and such.

Just wondering on what the rest of you have to say about it.

I'm a "toe-pointer" for the most part, but the hills out here in W.Mass call for a varied approach - including "ankling".

But beware! Too much of that, and your achilles starts popping.

It will help with your speed - will it work for you or cause problems - I honestly can't say. I am a toes down person & will occasionally use it to help speed me up some - but I can't use it for long periods of time.

Some will point to studies that say it does no good for a profesional athlete - the caveat is that the biggest improvments of speed came from some amatuer riders. ( I swear that I have seen some of the pros using it during races) I would also think though that if you practice using the technique only and gradually increased your rides your body should adapt & you won't have problems with it assuming your bike fits you properly.

Wasn't "ankling" refered to earlier to the pedalling technique of a great frenchman Jean Anquitell? I remember back in the mid-80s "ankling" wuz all the rave. But what's so special about it? Can anyone enlighten me on that, please?

Hi, I am new here, I learned about ankling about 1.5 years ago and I think it's a great idea. Personally, it adds about 1.5 km/hr to my speed right away (if I'm doing 35-40 km/hr) when I focus on doing it but I can't hold it for long. I can hold a less pronounced form of ankling for a longer period of time. Also, when sprinting once the rpms come up I can't do it, probably because the more massive muscles just overpower the calves which can't keep up. It seems to help in the acceleration phase though. Makes sense to bring the calves into the pedaling motion. Lately my calves have been getting real sore because I've been trying to ankle a lot, and my average speed has moved up but I've overtrained (just too much volume too early).

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by denbrewers
Wasn't "ankling" refered to earlier to the pedalling technique of a great frenchman Jean Anquitell? I remember back in the mid-80s "ankling" wuz all the rave. But what's so special about it? Can anyone enlighten me on that, please?

Nothing.....it's overrated. Plenty of top cyclists are either ankes first or toes first.

Ankle-Steve Bauer
Toes-Lance Armstrong

Whichever you are more comfortable with.

Sorry to be so ignorent, but what exactly do you do differently when "ankling". First time I hear the term.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Lazy legs
Sorry to be so ignorent, but what exactly do you do differently when "ankling". First time I hear the term.

A YAHOO search for "ankling " will take you to an animated
version.

"Ankling" refers to a pedaling technique whereby the heel of the foot is dropped during the beginning of the pedal stroke.

As per my recollection, Anquetil was not an ankler. Mercx however was an ankling pedal crusher.

I'm not a natural ankler, but I find that doing it intentionally seem to give me some added power at lower pedal cadences. FWIW however, it does seem to be a bit taxing on the calves if one isn't used to doing it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ted B
[B]"Ankling" refers to a pedaling technique whereby the heel of the foot is dropped during the beginning of the pedal stroke.

As per my recollection, Anquetil was not an ankler. Mercx however was an ankling pedal crusher.

Anquetil used the opposite to an ankling style, a linear style in
which the ankle never moved from a set power position, the
power came from the hips with the calf muscles playing a big
part and the varying pointing down positions of the toes was
caused by the rise and fall of the legs and not by conscious
movement of the ankle.

I actually discovered ankling as a way to spin the pedals in a less painful way. I had been spinning in a "linear" fashion and strained my IT Bands and was able to spin with less pain by "ankling" . Unfortunately even the "ankling" method will not allow me to continue to train and I'm out of commission for 3 to 5 weeks. Anyone who may have knee problems or a previous problem with IT Bands may suffer less by "ankling". If anyone has some experiences with this please let me know. When I get back on the bike I want to train as injury free as possible. Just my two cents.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Sharpey67
I actually discovered ankling as a way to spin the pedals in a less painful way. I had been spinning in a "linear" fashion and strained my IT Bands and was able to spin with less pain by "ankling" . Unfortunately even the "ankling" method will not allow me to continue to train and I'm out of commission for 3 to 5 weeks. Anyone who may have knee problems or a previous problem with IT Bands may suffer less by "ankling". If anyone has some experiences with this please let me know. When I get back on the bike I want to train as injury free as possible. Just my two cents.

There is some good info on IT problems and how to attack them on the site. Do a search to find. I have been a sufferer in the past and now follow a pretty regular regimen to make sure it does not become a problem again.

I think I know what these are, but can someone just quickly define both?

Thanks

Lazy legs said:

Sorry to be so ignorent, but what exactly do you do differently when "ankling". First time I hear the term.

This article by Dr Michele Ferrari may throw some light. Here he refers to the "tip toe" method (opposite to "heels down"😉 as used by Lance Armstrong which also involves using the ankles -

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=article&id=43

Dr Ferrari refers to Jacques Anquetil as using an ankling method which appears to be disputed by N Crowley. However, I would defer to Noel's view as he appears to eat, sleep, breathe and talk about J Anguetil! 🙂

If Dr Ferrari was to spend the next 50 years studying Anquetil's video, he
would still learn nothing about the technique because he would be only
viewing the finished product. The secret lies in the internal biomechanics
which are invisiable to an observer. This linear technique has to be
discovered independently, because before you start, you have got to know
what your objectives are and if you don't know what the advantages are,
how can you know your objectives.

n crowley said:

If Dr Ferrari was to spend the next 50 years studying Anquetil's video, he
would still learn nothing about the technique because he would be only
viewing the finished product. The secret lies in the internal biomechanics
which are invisiable to an observer. This linear technique has to be
discovered independently, because before you start, you have got to know
what your objectives are and if you don't know what the advantages are,
how can you know your objectives.

The secret lies in the internal biomechanics which are invisible to an observer.

Ok, Noel, I'll bite. If it is a secret and invisible how did you part the shrouds and sleuth out your hypothesis?

After all, Jacques died in 1987 and I understand he was very reluctant in life to speak about his pedalling style.

Here is a quote from a person who studied the style and, IMHO, there appears no mystery, only difficulty -

"More than anything it was the pedalling action that set Maitre Jacques apart; sitting very high in the saddle, his toes were pointed almost vertically down all the time. I challenge you to try it, on the turbo first. Just sit on the bike and 'click in'. Now, lift your heels, both feet, until you can't move them any more and your ankle is 'locked'. Now pedal, without ever lowering your heel - it almost feels like pushing forward, not down. Now's the hard bit. On the upstroke, pull as hard as you can, always without dropping your heel. You will find the amount of pull you've got now much greater than normal. Start to increase the intensity. After a few minutes, your calf muscles will give up.

"Anquetil himself reckoned that without toestraps - i.e. being unable to pull - he would have lost 5kph, because he pedalled like that all the time. ALL THE TIME. Now if you can do it, maybe you can ride as fast as he did in a time trial. "

VeloFlash said:

The secret lies in the internal biomechanics which are invisible to an observer.

Ok, Noel, I'll bite. If it is a secret and invisible how did you part the shrouds and sleuth out your hypothesis?

After all, Jacques died in 1987 and I understand he was very reluctant in life to speak about his pedalling style.

Here is a quote from a person who studied the style and, IMHO, there appears no mystery, only difficulty -

"More than anything it was the pedalling action that set Maitre Jacques apart; sitting very high in the saddle, his toes were pointed almost vertically down all the time. I challenge you to try it, on the turbo first. Just sit on the bike and 'click in'. Now, lift your heels, both feet, until you can't move them any more and your ankle is 'locked'. Now pedal, without ever lowering your heel - it almost feels like pushing forward, not down. Now's the hard bit. On the upstroke, pull as hard as you can, always without dropping your heel. You will find the amount of pull you've got now much greater than normal. Start to increase the intensity. After a few minutes, your calf muscles will give up.

"Anquetil himself reckoned that without toestraps - i.e. being unable to pull - he would have lost 5kph, because he pedalled like that all the time. ALL THE TIME. Now if you can do it, maybe you can ride as fast as he did in a time trial. "

Again that explanation is another example of " how wrong can you be ".

Yes being unable to pull could lose 5 kph but it's not the pulling up on the
pedal that applies here, its the arm resistance pulling, the pedal is simply
unweighted in a suitable manner. As for the objective that can solve the
mystery of the pedalling. If you can pedal in a way that enables you to
combine maximum arm resistance with maximum hip/thigh power when
generating the pedal power while seated in the saddle, you will have solved
the mystery. Another way of stating that is, if you can biomechanically
combine and correctly synchronise the arm generating power of a
"hand crank trike" rider with the lower body power of a normal road cyclist,
you will be using Anquetil's technique and it was this experimenting that led
to my instant discovery of the technique.

Personally I love ankling, that feeling when everything clicks into place - but not literally 🙂

n crowley said:

Again that explanation is another example of " how wrong can you be ".

Yes being unable to pull could lose 5 kph but it's not the pulling up on the
pedal that applies here, its the arm resistance pulling, the pedal is simply
unweighted in a suitable manner. As for the objective that can solve the
mystery of the pedalling. If you can pedal in a way that enables you to
combine maximum arm resistance with maximum hip/thigh power when
generating the pedal power while seated in the saddle, you will have solved
the mystery. Another way of stating that is, if you can biomechanically
combine and correctly synchronise the arm generating power of a
"hand crank trike" rider with the lower body power of a normal road cyclist,
you will be using Anquetil's technique and it was this experimenting that led
to my instant discovery of the technique.

You're saying that Anquetil was not pulling up on the upstroke with his foot but using his arms instead? That's very interesting. I was about to respond to the statement that he was using leg force on the upswing because that would have set him out as an anomaly to the pros, who I understand do not leg pull on the upstroke but merely unweight with the leg, as you say.

Combining more arm usage might be an advantage. Oxygen uptake for cross country skiers is quite a bit higher than for cyclists because of the usage of more upper body motion in their movement.

Can you be sure that he was using more arm pull than other riders? Is there record of any tests done on him? Is Lance Armstrong using more arm assist than the other riders?