...and another cycling death

Tom Orr must be edykated coz e writed:

Quoted message said:

This time there is a personal link, it was my parents who were the witnesses.

makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Sadly this, two recent local road deaths (Portobello and Dalkeith) and a series of road rage
incidents by motorists have made me give up cycle commuting entirely (after ten years).

So a life is worth £800.00, that is about £10 a year for that 79 year old, and wow a six month ban!
This country is the [censored]!

Ian

Quoted message said:

Sadly this, two recent local road deaths (Portobello and Dalkeith) and

a

Quoted message said:

series of road rage incidents by motorists have made me give up cycle commuting entirely (after
ten years).

I don't commute by bike but I have cycled the streets of London and it's a hairy experience.

I consider myself a considerate cyclist. I give way where I have to (or where it's safe to
give way and I can see that the motorist has more speed). I obey traffic lights, I'm careful
where pedestrians (are likely to be) around, I don't cycle side-by-side if there is traffic
behind me, etc.

Sometimes I'm cycling along and I'll get hooted by an impatient driver waiting to pull out of a
junction despite the fact that I was there first, or where it's a road too narrow to overtake.

Anyway I try to limit my exposure to traffic as much as possible because drivers just aren't
considerate enough until it's too late. For me that's just not good enough.

In the least it's annoying. At worst it's downright dangerous.

--
...meandering mule...

P.S. I also ride a motorbike/car and have to say that I've also seen a lot of stupid
cyclists, riding side-by-side, ignoring traffic lights, ignoring give-way signs, etc. Is
it really worth it?

Got to add though that not all drivers are bad. Some are very kind and give way where they don't
have to, to "shield" me from fast flowing traffic, etc, but it's the bad times that stick in your
mind most of the time.

Also pedestrians can be downright dangerous too. A lot of them never look or see you but carry on
infront of you anyway.

That's my frustrations out for the day...

--
...meandering mule...

mule must be edykated coz e writed:

Quoted message said:

Got to add though that not all drivers are bad. Some are very kind and give way where they don't
have to, to "shield" me from fast flowing traffic, etc, but it's the bad times that stick in your
mind most of the time.

Also pedestrians can be downright dangerous too. A lot of them never look or see you but carry on
infront of you anyway.

That's my frustrations out for the day...

I agree about pedestrians, they step into the road directly in front of you, turn and look at you
and stop like a dazed lemon, although the other day a car coming the other way just a few hundred
yards from home, pulled out to pass a parked car then instead of pulling in, the driver looked at me
while carrying on towards me, unfortunately for him my pedal is at door level, so he ended up with a
deep scrolling pattern in his paint work along his drivers side, and despite the awful noise it
made, he carried on totally oblivious to the world, another few inches and I would have been toast.

Ian

Quoted from the linked article:

"Sheriff James Penman said he found it astonishing that on a clear morning any competent and skilled
driver would fail to see a cyclist at the side of the road."

"It was obvious, he said, that Cargill had failed to pay attention at the time."

"He fined him a total of £800 and disqualified him from driving for six months."

Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. No jail time, and a shorter ban than if he'd been drink-driving
and injured no-one.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗

Tom Orr said:

This time there is a personal link, it was my parents who were the witnesses.

makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Sadly this, two recent local road deaths (Portobello and Dalkeith) and a series of road rage
incidents by motorists have made me give up cycle commuting entirely (after ten years).

Grrrrrrrrr.

Did someone paint bullseyes on our backs without telling us? What score dya get for 2 or more or dya
get a bonus if you get a recumbent & kiddie combo? Anything for technical merit? Body spread? Cool
looking positions of dead?

If you were drinking also, do you get a shorter ban? Or can you sue the estate of the scumbag who
scraped the paint off yer car as you, uh, "were in collision"? Will a Monopoly "get out of jail
free" card be okay?

Aaaargh! (Bangs head against wall in sheer frustration)

This one looks, on the surface, to be a clear case of cyclist abuse. Take his licence for 6 months?
Take his oxygen privs more like!

Gary (Not happy, fuming, considering swapping digicam for Glock)

--------------------------------------------------
Reply to gary <at> data <dot> mildenhall <dot> com
--------------------------------------------------

Quoted message said:

...pulled out to pass a parked car then instead of pulling in, the driver looked at me while
carrying on towards me, unfortunately for him my pedal is at door level, so he ended up with a deep
scrolling pattern in his paint work along his drivers side, and despite the awful noise it made, he
carried on totally oblivious to the world, another few inches and I would have been toast.

Glad to hear you made it. Hope your pedals made it through too. Serves him right if he can't be
bothered to pull back in. Anyway it's only a bit of paintwork. Could have been your leg.

--
...meandering mule...

Tom Orr tried to scribble ...

Quoted message said:

This time there is a personal link, it was my parents who were the witnesses.

makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

That's terrible.

I truly believe that anyone who kills, or causes anyone else to be killed, should serve a minimum of
5 years. There should be absolutely no excuse for any more "smidsy's"

Accidents are accidents, but simply not seeing another road user is NOT an accident.

--
Digweed

Quoted message said:

Accidents are accidents, but simply not seeing another road user is NOT an accident.

That is a trite thing to say. It is a fact that someone who is paying attention MAY not see
someone on a bike ahead of him. I've cycled for years but I also drive and one the odd occasion,
especially in town, I've had the experience of "where did he come from?". There is a physiological
reason for that. In scanning mode, the human visual apparatus is not perfect at picking up a
narrow outline which is similarly coloured to the background. That's why police motorcycle men
wear yellow belts, and that's why I usually do too. You see, rather than ranting about this stuff,
I've actually studied
it.It may or may not be true that carelessness was involved. You cannot be sure that it was. Sending
someone to jail because of physiology is a bit strong. I believe that ALL cyclists should be
attired to draw attention to themselves. I've cycled in town for 25 years or more all told and
I've never been knocked off or hit by a vehicle. Maybe I'm lucky.

"Tom Orr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Sadly this, two recent local road deaths (Portobello and Dalkeith) and a series of road rage
incidents by motorists have made me give up cycle commuting entirely (after ten years).

Both the RTC and the fact this chap has been forced away from cycling by road ragers is shocking. I
didn't think Scotland was really that bad 🙁

Alex

Tom Orr said:

This time there is a personal link, it was my parents who were the witnesses.

makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Sadly this, two recent local road deaths (Portobello and Dalkeith) and a series of road rage
incidents by motorists have made me give up cycle commuting entirely (after ten years).

Tom,

I cycle through these part of Edinburgh and East Lothian every day. In the time that both these
deaths have happened, far more motorists and pedestrians have been killed per mile driven/walked.

Don't give up, and don't be scaremongered!

--
--

Michael Calwell

Just zis Guy said:

Quoted from the linked article:

"Sheriff James Penman said he found it astonishing that on a clear morning any competent and
skilled driver would fail to see a cyclist at the side of the road."

"It was obvious, he said, that Cargill had failed to pay attention at the time."

"He fined him a total of £800 and disqualified him from driving for six months."

Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. No jail time, and a shorter ban than if he'd been drink-driving
and injured no-one.

This is little short of murder.

I am going to see what more can be done about this.

--
--

Michael Calwell

Ian said:

Tom Orr must be edykated coz e writed:

Quoted message said:

This time there is a personal link, it was my parents who were the witnesses.

makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Sadly this, two recent local road deaths (Portobello and Dalkeith) and a series of road rage
incidents by motorists have made me give up cycle commuting entirely (after ten years).

So a life is worth £800.00, that is about £10 a year for that 79 year old, and wow a six month
ban! This country is the [censored]!

I'm ashamed to be british. This country has sunk deep into the mire. This kind of disgusting
disregard for cyclists lives makes me feel completely sick inside. I'm normally quite placid, but
this makes me feel like taking a hammer and smashing every vehicle I see on the road. It's
frightening what motorists are now free to inflict on others with minimal accountability.

It's a sick society.

John B

Mr R@t (2.3 zulu-alpha) comms room 2 said:

"Tom Orr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Sadly this, two recent local road deaths (Portobello and Dalkeith) and a series of road rage
incidents by motorists have made me give up cycle commuting entirely (after ten years).

Both the RTC and the fact this chap has been forced away from cycling by road ragers is shocking.
I didn't think Scotland was really that bad 🙁

Perhaps a lot more note should be taken of the mad rantings of P**l S**th. Those who actively
promote disrespect for the law and the safety of others have a lot to answer for.

John B

"Gearóid Ó Laoi, Garry Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Accidents are accidents, but simply not seeing another road user is NOT

an

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

accident.

Quoted message said:

That is a trite thing to say.

It's generally true, though. It's inattention.

Quoted message said:

In scanning mode, the human visual apparatus is not perfect at picking up a narrow outline which
is similarly coloured to the background. That's why police motorcycle men wear yellow belts, and
that's why I usually do too. You see, rather than ranting about this stuff, I've actually studied
it.

So you'll be aware of the research which shows that actually it's nothign to do with absolute levels
of conspicuity, but the degree of perceived threat. Motorcyclists' likelihood of being seen varies
with how much they look like a police bike. You can be lit up like a Christmas tree on your
fluorescent yellow Yamahonduki Special and not be spotted, but ride a faired white Pan European
wearing black leathers, reflective Sam Browne and a white lid, and you will be spotted.

Quoted message said:

I believe that ALL cyclists should be attired to draw attention to themselves.

And I believe that all motorists should be required to pay due care and attention, and drive at a
speed such that they can stop in the distance they can see to be clear. Oh, wait a minute, they
/are/ required to do this...

Quoted message said:

I've cycled in town for 25 years or more all told and I've never been knocked off or hit by a
vehicle. Maybe I'm lucky.

Maybe you are. I've been knocked off by SMIDSYs when I was wearing light clothing, using lights,
wearing a reflective belt. I've been hit from behind despite having a 4" square halogen rear light
on the top of my rack at the time. I've been run off the road despite wearing a fluorescent jacket
and having a flag mounted on the bike.

Motorists don't see cyclists because they don't look properly, and they don't look properly because
we pose no threat.

Indeed, the Nugentoids of uk.tosspot believe we are obliged to get out of their way.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗

"Ian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

unfortunately for him my pedal is at door level, so he ended up with a deep scrolling pattern in
his paint work along his drivers side, and despite the awful noise it made, he carried on totally
oblivious to the world, another few inches and I would have been toast.

I've been run off the road in similar fashion. Commiserations - not least because it's pretty much
impossible to get the registartion mark under such circumstances, which is a Grate Pitty as the
busies don't like peopple who leave the scene of an accident.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

snip

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've cycled in town for 25 years or more all told and I've never been knocked off or hit by a
vehicle. Maybe I'm lucky.

Probably not -- I suspect you actually have to be quite unlucky to be in an 'accident'. Cycling is
not as dangerous as many fear.

That said, I have had 2 close encounters with SMIDSY. Fortunately, on the first I could take
avoiding action sufficient that he did, finally, see me and slow sufficiently that I only dented his
door with my foot 🙂 For the second, white van man just pulled away from the kerb -- but came to a
shuddering halt when he heard the banshee battering its way down his side (the flat of the hand
slapped on the side of a transit sounds 'orrible inside said tin box).

Quoted message said:

Maybe you are. I've been knocked off by SMIDSYs when I was wearing light clothing, using lights,
wearing a reflective belt. I've been hit from behind despite having a 4" square halogen rear light
on the top of my rack at the time. I've been run off the road despite wearing a fluorescent jacket
and having a flag mounted on the bike.

Motorists don't see cyclists because they don't look properly, and they don't look properly
because we pose no threat.

So the answer is to pose a threat? Actually, I suspect in part it is. As a driver it sure is easier
to see the assertive cyclist who 'drives' like a 'normal' vehicle and firmly indicated what he is
going to do next -- he is much easier to see than dear old Ethel Clutterbuck hugging the gutter at 0
MPH. As a cyclist I find that clear signals and decicive, assertive moves cause other vehicles to
give me the space I need to make my manouver and get out of their way. That said -- always tempered
by caution and careful watching what the next idiot with a contract to kill is going to do.

Quoted message said:

Indeed, the Nugentoids of uk.tosspot believe we are obliged to get out of their way.

Yes -- but there is no cure for terminal stupidity. 🙂

T

One winter's day in Sheffield, at lunchtime, a van driver opened his door into my path. "SMIDSY"
"You didn't look." "Don't be like that."

I was wearing a dayglo orange jacket + matching trousers so only my hands, face & feet weren't
glowing flourescent flame. It was not raining or dark.

I was not thin then (or now)

12 stone of orange cyclist is still invisible.

How much more effort should I have made?

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden] Edgware.

Tony W said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in

Quoted message said:

Motorists don't see cyclists because they don't look properly, and they don't look properly
because we pose no threat.

So the answer is to pose a threat? Actually, I suspect in part it
is. As a driver it sure is easier to see the assertive cyclist who 'drives' like a 'normal'
vehicle and firmly indicated what he is going to do next -- he is much easier to see than
dear old Ethel Clutterbuck hugging the gutter at 0 MPH.

Couldn't agree more. I used to cycle a lot in Bristol through the city centre and I never had any
trouble with the traffic because I *was* part of the traffic, by which I mean I asserted and
defended my road position exactly as I do when I'm driving a car. I also *never* assumed that a
driver had seen me until I had made eye contact or the driver had in some other way indicated that
he/she was aware of my presence.

I worry about those cyclists who, when they attempt a right turn, wobble to a halt on the left kerb
and then have to negotiate crossing 2 lanes of traffic rather than one.

Tim

--
Time for a new sig.