"ancient" dura ace rear derailleur identification problem

geos said:

hello,

is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?

http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5

I couldn't find any information on the internet, even at www.duraace.com
history section.

I would appreciate your help with this, especially if you know what year
it was produced. but any information would be helpful.

additional information: the code from the derailleur is "FD-Z254 VIA"

thanks,
geos

Quoted message said:

is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?

http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5

Wow... hardly looks like a Shimano derailleur at all, with those sharp
angles and such. Reminds me of a Campy 980 (but it isn't). I don't recall
Shimano using that color scheme, so it could be that someone "created" that
DuraAce derailleur, but then I just turned 50 so I may have forgotten.

I'll bet Andy Muzi knows...

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Wow... hardly looks like a Shimano derailleur at all,

"FD-Z254 VIA" - I don't ever remember a time when Shimano labeled their
rear derailleurs with a FD prefix. Very odd.

Diablo Scott said:

"FD-Z254 VIA" - I don't ever remember a time when Shimano labeled their
rear derailleurs with a FD prefix. Very odd.

I cropped the picture. there was also a front derailleur visible and
shifters. this code could be marked on FD (I don't have accurate
information from the owner).

thanks,
geos

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?

http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5

Wow... hardly looks like a Shimano derailleur at all, with those sharp
angles and such. Reminds me of a Campy 980 (but it isn't). I don't recall
Shimano using that color scheme, so it could be that someone "created" that
DuraAce derailleur, but then I just turned 50 so I may have forgotten.

I'll bet Andy Muzi knows...

thanks Mike. "home made dura ace" hypothesis is something I also
consider :-)

thanks,
geos

geos said:

Diablo Scott said:

"FD-Z254 VIA" - I don't ever remember a time when Shimano labeled their
rear derailleurs with a FD prefix. Very odd.

I cropped the picture. there was also a front derailleur visible and
shifters. this code could be marked on FD (I don't have accurate
information from the owner).

FD is a front der, RD is a rear der, shift levers are often SL.
Z is an average (not super cheap, not fancy) gear level from
the mid 80s or so.

<http://www.fa-technik.adfc.de/Hersteller/Shimano/Gruppen80.html>

The derailleur appears to be a slant parallelogram, so
it's after the Suntour patent expired. It looks like it's mostly
aluminum, so it isn't the cheapest level, which has greater
amounts of stamped steel. The DA sticker is definitely a
homebrew mod, like putting a fancy exhaust pipe on a
factory Honda. Not that there's anything wrong with factory
Hondas. Look on the bright side, if the rear der is from the
index-shifting era, its cable pull will be compatible with
modern Shimano shifters, while a late 80s Dura-Ace
rear der would not be.

geos said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?

http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5

Wow... hardly looks like a Shimano derailleur at all, with those sharp
angles and such. Reminds me of a Campy 980 (but it isn't). I don't recall
Shimano using that color scheme, so it could be that someone "created" that
DuraAce derailleur, but then I just turned 50 so I may have forgotten.

I'll bet Andy Muzi knows...

thanks Mike. "home made dura ace" hypothesis is something I also
consider :-)

Given the location of the limit screws, I don't think it's a Shimano
anything. Suntour??

geos said:

hello,

is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?

http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5

I couldn't find any information on the internet, even at www.duraace.com
history section.

I would appreciate your help with this, especially if you know what year
it was produced. but any information would be helpful.

That is not a Dura Ace derailleur.

It's a less expensive Shimano model or another brand from
the mid-80s before Suntour's slant paralellogram patent expired.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?

http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5

Wow... hardly looks like a Shimano derailleur at all, with those sharp
angles and such. Reminds me of a Campy 980 (but it isn't). I don't recall
Shimano using that color scheme, so it could be that someone "created" that
DuraAce derailleur, but then I just turned 50 so I may have forgotten.

I'll bet Andy Muzi knows...

The sticker is not 'factory"
He says it is a SHimano "Z"

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Ozark Bicycle said:

geos said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

>is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
>
>http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5

Wow... hardly looks like a Shimano derailleur at all, with those sharp
angles and such. Reminds me of a Campy 980 (but it isn't). I don't recall
Shimano using that color scheme, so it could be that someone "created" that
DuraAce derailleur, but then I just turned 50 so I may have forgotten.

I'll bet Andy Muzi knows...

thanks Mike. "home made dura ace" hypothesis is something I also
consider :-)

Given the location of the limit screws, I don't think it's a Shimano
anything. Suntour??

The adjuster barrel reminds me of SunTour, but those limit screws and
the *angular* tab below them for the anchor bolt just don't look like
SunTour.

I checked some photos on Ebay, and it's not Superbe or cyclone in any of
the variations now on sale, nor any later SunTour creations, at least
not that I can see.

Mark "SunTour Buff"

A Muzi said:

geos said:

hello,

is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?

http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5

I couldn't find any information on the internet, even at
www.duraace.com history section.

I would appreciate your help with this, especially if you know what
year it was produced. but any information would be helpful.

That is not a Dura Ace derailleur.

It's a less expensive Shimano model or another brand from
the mid-80s before Suntour's slant paralellogram patent expired.

What is this slant parallelogram thing?
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

geos said:

is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5
I couldn't find any information on the internet, even at
www.duraace.com history section.
I would appreciate your help with this, especially if you know what
year it was produced. but any information would be helpful.

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

That is not a Dura Ace derailleur.
It's a less expensive Shimano model or another brand from
the mid-80s before Suntour's slant paralellogram patent expired.

Phil said:

What is this slant parallelogram thing?

(second look i'm not so sure if this is or not.)

Suntour invented the slanted body in the sixties, patent
expired in the mid-80s.

A classic changer, like early Record, shifts straight in
and out. Cogs are smaller on the outside, larger near the
spokes. So a slanted body, like Suntour or modern changers,
tracks better.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

geos said:

hello,

is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?

http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5

I couldn't find any information on the internet, even at www.duraace.com
history section.

I would appreciate your help with this, especially if you know what year
it was produced. but any information would be helpful.

thanks,
goes

There might also be photo misrepresentation here. Look at the area in
front of the guide pulley. Looks weird to me.

Robin Hubert

geos said:

Diablo Scott said:

"FD-Z254 VIA" - I don't ever remember a time when Shimano labeled their
rear derailleurs with a FD prefix. Very odd.

I cropped the picture. there was also a front derailleur visible and
shifters. this code could be marked on FD (I don't have accurate
information from the owner).

thanks,
geos

Anything Shimano "Z"-series was bottom of the line- about where Tourney
or Altus is today. It's functional, but certainly not Dura-Ace.

Jeff

Mark Janeba said:

The adjuster barrel reminds me of SunTour, but those limit screws and
the *angular* tab below them for the anchor bolt just don't look like
SunTour.

I checked some photos on Ebay, and it's not Superbe or cyclone in any of
the variations now on sale, nor any later SunTour creations, at least
not that I can see.

Mark "SunTour Buff"

<http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/suntour/rd/rd.html>

I don't see it there, but if you're a Suntour buff, you need
to have a look there anyway.

Mark Janeba said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

geos said:

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

>>is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5
>
>Wow... hardly looks like a Shimano derailleur at all, with those sharp
>angles and such. Reminds me of a Campy 980 (but it isn't). I don't recall
>Shimano using that color scheme, so it could be that someone "created" that
>DuraAce derailleur, but then I just turned 50 so I may have forgotten.
>
>I'll bet Andy Muzi knows...

thanks Mike. "home made dura ace" hypothesis is something I also
consider :-)

Given the location of the limit screws, I don't think it's a Shimano
anything. Suntour??

The adjuster barrel reminds me of SunTour, but those limit screws and
the *angular* tab below them for the anchor bolt just don't look like
SunTour.

Who else made slant parallelogram RDs with the limit screws in that
location? I can't think of any. (Perhaps the limit screws themselves
are not original?)

Quoted message said:

I checked some photos on Ebay, and it's not Superbe or cyclone in any of
the variations now on sale, nor any later SunTour creations, at least
not that I can see.

Mark "SunTour Buff"

geos said:

hello,

is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?

http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5

I couldn't find any information on the internet, even at www.duraace.com
history section.

I would appreciate your help with this, especially if you know what year
it was produced. but any information would be helpful.

thanks,
goes

I am almost certain that it is the Dura-Ass model.

Squid-in-Training said:

A Muzi said:

geos said:

hello,

is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?

http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5

I couldn't find any information on the internet, even at
www.duraace.com history section.

I would appreciate your help with this, especially if you know what
year it was produced. but any information would be helpful.

That is not a Dura Ace derailleur.

It's a less expensive Shimano model or another brand from
the mid-80s before Suntour's slant paralellogram patent expired.

What is this slant parallelogram thing?

You really want the book "The Dancing Chain." It's basically the history of
bicycle shifting with an emphasis on derailleurs and their evolution. This is
like cyclo-geek crack. You'll love it.

Ron

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ozark Bicycle () said:

Mark Janeba said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

geos wrote:

>Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
>>>is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
>>>
>>>http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5
>>
>>Wow... hardly looks like a Shimano derailleur at all, with those sharp
>>angles and such. Reminds me of a Campy 980 (but it isn't). I don't recall
>>Shimano using that color scheme, so it could be that someone "created" that
>>DuraAce derailleur, but then I just turned 50 so I may have forgotten.
>>
>>I'll bet Andy Muzi knows...
>
>thanks Mike. "home made dura ace" hypothesis is something I also
>consider :-)
>

Given the location of the limit screws, I don't think it's a Shimano
anything. Suntour??

The adjuster barrel reminds me of SunTour, but those limit screws and
the *angular* tab below them for the anchor bolt just don't look like
SunTour.

Who else made slant parallelogram RDs with the limit screws in that
location? I can't think of any. (Perhaps the limit screws themselves
are not original?)

Could it perchance be a Simplex?

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Kinder surprise! What's the surprise? Your children are now dead.