Ammonia

"nobody760" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

According to the venerable Sheldon Brown the best way to free a 'bond' between steel and
aluminium is with ammonia. The sit pin on my mountain bike is solid, have tried household
ammonia but notice on the bottle it says contains 9.5% ammonia. What sort of strength do
you need? Chemist says he does not have strong ammonia (100%?). Have tried the
conventional mechanical methods. Help appreciated. Cheers.

100% Ammonia is the gas NH3 (where the "3" is a subscript). It dissolves in water, and the strongest
solution is about 33%, and called "880" from the density being 0.880 that of pure water. Very
difficult to obtain, and extremely pungent. I've got some described as "MAX Power Ammonia" from
Challs International Ltd. The strength isn't stated on the container but there's an "Irritant"
label. See www.challs.com (where it's listed as 9.5% )

For stronger stuff, you need to go to an industrial chemicals supplier, and will need an account
before they will deal with you.

--
M Stewart Milton Keynes, UK www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm
myweb.tiscali.co.ukms1938Open ↗

"Malcolm Stewart" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

100% Ammonia is the gas NH3 (where the "3" is a subscript). It dissolves in water, and the
strongest solution is about 33%, and called

"880"

Quoted message said:

from the density being 0.880 that of pure water. Very difficult to

obtain, and

Quoted message said:

extremely pungent.

The science dept. of your local school will have some and might help a cyclist in despair out.
Causes burns to your skin and extreme discomfort if you breathe it. Not something you'd want to
splosh over your bike in the kitchen.

"AndyP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Malcolm Stewart" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

100% Ammonia is the gas NH3 (where the "3" is a subscript). It dissolves in water, and the
strongest solution is about 33%, and

called

Quoted message said:

"880"

Quoted message said:

from the density being 0.880 that of pure water. Very difficult to

obtain, and

Quoted message said:

extremely pungent.

The science dept. of your local school will have some and might help a cyclist in despair out.
Causes burns to your skin and extreme discomfort

if

Quoted message said:

you breathe it. Not something you'd want to splosh over your bike in the kitchen.

and naked ....

Quoted message said:

The science dept. of your local school will have some and might help a cyclist in despair out.
Causes burns to your skin and extreme discomfort

if

Quoted message said:

you breathe it. Not something you'd want to splosh over your bike in the kitchen.

Sadly, health and safety regulations make it extremely unlikely that school science departments will
release any chemicals to the public, they may not even be allowd to have it in stock any more..
Regulations have tightened to such an extent that many of the things that I used to do as end of
term treats became dismissable offences. I took my bat home and migrated to Information Technology
and now teach hacking and computer misuse instead :-)

No electrons were harmed during the composition of this message.

Vernon in Leeds

"vernon levy" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Sadly, health and safety regulations make it extremely unlikely that

school

Quoted message said:

science departments will release any chemicals to the public, they may not even be allowd to have
it in stock any more.. Regulations have tightened

to

Quoted message said:

such an extent that many of the things that I used to do as end of term treats became dismissable
offences.

As I understand it from all the CLEAPSS health and safety stuff very few chemicals or experiments
are actually banned from schools on a national level but individual LEAs or other governing bodies
may make their own rules. New teachers that come to our school from different areas think that the
thermit reaction is banned for example or even the use of model steam engines or the dissection of
eyes. What kind of things were you talking about being dismissable offences? Anything interesting I
should try out?

Oh, and no, handing out conc. ammonia to anyone that asked for it might not be very wise but if they
brought their bike in I'd squirt a bit on for them.

"redshift" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

That would why nobody's kids are interested in chemistry any more then...

(Oh the heady days of butanoic acid, acetyl chloride and bits of sodium and potassium whizzing
about on the water...)

We've got quite a large surplus of sodium for some bizarre reason. (I found a coffee jar full of the
stuff under a pile of junk in the fume cupboard when I first started at our school). Keep meaning to
take it with me next time I go camping by some remote loch in Scotland.

Quoted message said:

For stronger stuff, you need to go to an industrial chemicals supplier, and will need an account
before they will deal with you.

Getting the account shouldn't be too much of a problem - a journalist recently got a load of dodgy
stuff from a supllier even though he called himself Osama Bin Ladin! I guess they just thought he'd
be a good customer - and pay in cash too!

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Regulations have tightened to

Quoted message said:

such an extent that many of the things that I used to do as end of term treats became dismissable
offences.

That annoyed me. They banned all the fun explosive type stuff then wondered why people stopped
taking science!

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"Mark Thompson" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For stronger stuff, you need to go to an industrial chemicals supplier,

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

will need an account before they will deal with you.

Quoted message said:

Getting the account shouldn't be too much of a problem - a journalist

recently

Quoted message said:

got a load of dodgy stuff from a supllier even though he called himself

Osama

Quoted message said:

Bin Ladin! I guess they just thought he'd be a good customer - and pay in

cash

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too!

I've picked up conc. HCl from a chemical supplier with no ID to say I worked anywhere that might
have any legitimate use for it and paying in cash.

"Mark Thompson" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

That annoyed me. They banned all the fun explosive type stuff then

wondered why

Quoted message said:

people stopped taking science!

Such as?

Quoted message said:

What kind of things were you talking about being dismissable offences? Anything interesting I
should try out?

Funniliy enough the top offender uses conc. ammonia and iodine to make ammonium triodide, an
unstable explosive....small quantities (lentil sized) is manageable but I like chemistry in bucket
quantities :-)

A lot of authorities ban anything that leads to explosions which for me eliminated the combustion of
gallon quantity stiochometric mixes of oxygen and gaseous alkanes out in the playing fields, a lot
of the organic chemicals and some inorganic stock was banned.

Whatever's left in the chemical stock cupboard is entirely dependent on the diligence of the
technicians, their intepretations of CLEAPSS and local authority rules and regulations, the
activities of LEA inspectors and how successful you are at hiding the 'interesting stuff' :-)

We once got a major bollocking because our sandwiches shared fridge space with pickled rats and
other biolocical specimens. Our arguments that it boosted our immune systems was not well received
by the po faced jobsworth.

Quoted message said:

Oh, and no, handing out conc. ammonia to anyone that asked for it might

not

Quoted message said:

be very wise but if they brought their bike in I'd squirt a bit on for

them.

A sensible compromise :-)

Vernon, the urban terrorist in Leeds :-)

On 14/2/04 7:16 am, in article [email hidden], "vernon

levy said:

Quoted message said:

What kind of things were you talking about being dismissable offences? Anything interesting I
should try out?

Funniliy enough the top offender uses conc. ammonia and iodine to make ammonium triodide, an
unstable explosive....small quantities (lentil sized) is manageable but I like chemistry in bucket
quantities :-)

It certainly makes things go with a bang. A teaspoon sized pile going up during a lesson (it had
been left on top of a cupboard to dry and is unstable above 25C or under pressure) made one hell of
a noise. ;-)

This was some time ago. We also did things like drop sodium in conc nitric acid (in a beaker in a
trough of water). It blew the bottom out of the beaker.

An inch cube of sodium in a fire bucket certainly teaches respect for chemicals in quantity,
something the poxy little piece of fizzy lithium doesn't do.

Normal party balloons full of hydrogen/oxygen are entertaining (outside).

Lots of other fun things too.. most of which are probably thought of as being too dangerous. It is
the danger that teaches respect.

Quoted message said:

A lot of authorities ban anything that leads to explosions which for me eliminated the combustion
of gallon quantity stiochometric mixes of oxygen and gaseous alkanes out in the playing fields, a
lot of the organic chemicals and some inorganic stock was banned.

How to kill off enthusiasm for science..

Quoted message said:

We once got a major bollocking because our sandwiches shared fridge space with pickled rats and
other biolocical specimens. Our arguments that it boosted our immune systems was not well received
by the po faced jobsworth.

We got told off for having an out of date bottle in our fridge. The reasoning was that it would
degenerate into dangerous compounds. The bottle originally contained 100 vol hydrogen peroxide.

At the same time I was told off for having an unlabled bottle of a blue coloured solution for a
particular protocol. So I labelled it 'Blue protocol solution' and everyone was happy. Go figure!

..d

"nobody760" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

According to the venerable Sheldon Brown the best way to free a 'bond' between steel and aluminium
is with ammonia. The sit pin on my mountain bike is solid, have tried household ammonia but notice
on the bottle it says contains 9.5% ammonia. What sort of strength do you need? Chemist says he
does not have strong ammonia (100%?).

Have tried the conventional mechanical methods.

Help appreciated. Cheers.

Heat, from a hair drier rather than a blowtorch, and repeated application of penetrating oil, the
sort with graphite, over a period of several days did it for me. Best of luck.

Martin Family said:

vernon levy said:

Quoted message said:

What kind of things were you talking about being dismissable offences? Anything interesting I
should try out?

An inch cube of sodium in a fire bucket certainly teaches respect for chemicals in quantity,
something the poxy little piece of fizzy lithium doesn't do.

You'll love this site

theodoregray.com011.2Open ↗

Gareth

Martin Family said:

On 14/2/04 7:16 am, in article [email hidden], "vernon levy"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Funniliy enough the top offender uses conc. ammonia and iodine to make ammonium triodide, an
unstable explosive....small quantities (lentil sized) is manageable but I like chemistry in
bucket quantities :-)

It certainly makes things go with a bang. A teaspoon sized pile going up during a lesson (it had
been left on top of a cupboard to dry and is unstable above 25C or under pressure) made one hell of
a noise. ;-)

This was some time ago. We also did things like drop sodium in conc nitric acid (in a beaker in a
trough of water). It blew the bottom out of the beaker.

An inch cube of sodium in a fire bucket certainly teaches respect for chemicals in quantity,
something the poxy little piece of fizzy lithium doesn't do.

Normal party balloons full of hydrogen/oxygen are entertaining (outside).

Lots of other fun things too.. most of which are probably thought of as being too dangerous. It is
the danger that teaches respect.

When I was at Nottingham University in the early 70s there was only one lecture you had actually to
pay to get into. It was always over-subscribed so there would be a number of repeat performances
over about a week. Queues would form early and the more cautious would avoid sitting in the first
half dozen rows. The lecture started with a demonstration of Krakatoa exploding and built up from
there. During the lecture, which included a tallow candle being fired through a barn door, some 40
explosions were set off, each slightly bigger than the one before. More about the lecture and the
great B.D. Shaw can be found here: rsc.orgbooth nov01.htmOpen ↗

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

In message <[email hidden]>

vernon levy said:

Quoted message said:

What kind of things were you talking about being dismissable offences? Anything interesting I
should try out?

Funniliy enough the top offender uses conc. ammonia and iodine to make ammonium triodide, an
unstable explosive....small quantities (lentil sized) is manageable but I like chemistry in
bucket quantities :-)

A lot of authorities ban anything that leads to explosions which for me eliminated the combustion
of gallon quantity stiochometric mixes of oxygen and gaseous alkanes out in the playing fields,

Try 30 litres of Oxy-acetylene in a polythene tube ... from a good distance... I was too close
for comfort.

But then exploding hot water tanks are extremely dangerous

Quoted message said:

--
Gwyn

Quoted message said:

Try 30 litres of Oxy-acetylene in a polythene tube ... from a good distance... I was too close for
comfort.

But then exploding hot water tanks are extremely dangerous

As an undergraduate my shared student house used to specialise in dustbin quntities of acetylene -
air detonated by throwing lit matches as the slightly askew dustbin lid. The dull boom, 12' diameter
fireball and bin lid hurtling skywards accompanied by the cacophony of neighbourhood startled dogs
made it all worth while :-) I guess 6' from the bin was too close for comfort too when I trimmed my
hair with the fireball =8-)

Andy Leighton <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Oh so we wouldn't be allowed to try and synthesize TNT anymore then? We didn't quite manage it -
it is quite difficult with the school equipment we had.

TNT is actually quite an easy one to do, requiring (from memory) concentrated nitric acid and
toluene; the latter is quite popular as a solvent in educational establishments (well, in higher
education at least) these days, having largely superseded the structurally similar, but more
hazardous to health, benzene.

David E. Belcher

On 16 Feb 2004 11:04:20 -0800,

David E. Belcher said:

Andy Leighton <[email hidden]> wrote in

message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh so we wouldn't be allowed to try and synthesize TNT anymore then? We didn't quite manage it -
it is quite difficult with the school equipment we had.

TNT is actually quite an easy one to do, requiring (from memory) concentrated nitric acid and
toluene; the latter is quite popular as a solvent in educational establishments (well, in higher
education at least) these days, having largely superseded the structurally similar, but more
hazardous to health, benzene.

Well nitric acid on its own isn't enough - you will need conc. Sulphuric as well. Both of these
should be fuming. If the acids are not concentrated enough - the final step from di-nitro to tri-
nitro is the problem.

Industry tends to use a different process to the bung the stuff in a beaker type approach we took.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden] "The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep
dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_