American Running

Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

i was just checking out the latest iaaf men's road running rankings and
thanks to immigration & meb, an american has cracked the top 10! m

Furthermore, do these statistics sort out immigrants? Mnay of the top
US runners were born abroad and trained abroad thru their teen years.

"SwStudio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Lanceandrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

how does japan have _5_ native born men
in the top 50 rankings and the u.s.a. not a single u.s.a. born runner in
the
top 50?

Support, national pride, and status. Running simply
means more to the average Japanese person than an
American.

I find it kind of mystery. The US has the highest fraction of its population
in recreational running: 3-4% year-round, double that part of the year-
compared to just about any other country. "L'almost bare tourist jogger"
is comedic staple in Europe. But we are looking at mostly
post-school adults in those statistics. There may be some important differences
during the crucial teen years. Such as emphasis on different sports as other
posters have pointed out.

(Lanceandrew) said:

i can't buy...

....snip...

Quoted message said:

...culture arguments

Why? Look at where all the top endurance athletes comme from;
third-world or countries with a stronger "traditional" culture.

Maybe a lot to do with automobile, airconditioning, industrial food &
soda availability during youth.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mike Tennent said:

(Lyndon) said:

There was a
interrview with the CEO of Saucony recently where he said that marathons aren't
about winning anymore, they're about finishing.

I imagine that carries across the board to 5K's - 15K's.

I'd be interested to see if the average speed of what might be called
the "good" (non-elite) runners has slowed over the last 10 - 15 years
or so. The guys and gals who make up, say, the next 1/3 of the field
behind the "elite" runners.

In other words, has the "hard core" runner (non-elites) slowed on the
average?

I don't have the documentation, but I've looked some at results.
If you take a fixed time, whether 2:20 marathon, or 2:40, or 40 minute
10k, or a 12 minute 2 mile (HS track from bygone days), etc., then
in general, you do see fewer people, absolutely, and even more so,
relatively, beating that time level.

At the very top, say the 9 minutes for 2 miles level in HS, the
difference doesn't seem to be as great today vs. 25 years ago. At
10 minutes, it's a stronger change. And at 12, it's blazingly obvious.
(Guess what I ran back then, and was 9th on my team. Today, 12 would
be something like 9th in the conference most years, vs. something like
50th then.)

You also see far, far too many races being won by guys in their 40's.
Granted, experience does count for something. But 40-something guys,
even very good and hard training 40-something guys, really _ought_ to
be getting their clocks cleaned by good area 30-something guys. The
younger crowd has both time to have developed experience, and youth to
take full advantage of it. Still, a lot of the top 5 at area races is
filled by the 40-something guys. It's less of a difference among the
women, but women's running 25 years ago was not as strong as men's.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mike Tennent said:

(Lanceandrew) said:

you can make these same arguments about swimming. 1)no money for 99% of the
people who engage in the sport, 2) the "real athletes" are choosing other
sports rather than swimming. but when it comes to "swimming', we americans
don't make these same excuses do we. Why? For whatever reason, we're capable
of producing a decent class world class athlete in that sport....and i don't
hear the swimming claiming how they lose athetes to other sports and how
there's no $ in the game. also, to swim you have to have access to an olympic
pool which is a incredible barrier to entry for lots of kid$. yet not even
that hurdle prevents us from producing world class swimmers.

That's an excellent point, Lance.

However, one big difference I can see is that the "feeder" pool for
swimming (and other sports) starts out at a much younger level. You
see swimming teams starting at, what, 8 or 9 years old? These kids are
training 4 - 5 days a week, going to meets, etc from the get go. The
good swimmers are identified early on and get the positive
reinforcement needed to stay with it.

Make that 5-6 years old for competitive team swimming.

Quoted message said:

The same can be said for the other "major" sports. Pee Wee football,
T-ball, Little League, Under 8 Soccer. They grab the kids young and
get them into a system of competition.

There's nothing remotely similar in running. In fact, we fret when we
read of junior high schoolers running more than a 5K. You'd be shot if
you tried to organize a team of 8 year old sprinters. (Perhaps
justifiably, still if 8 yr olds can play football and soccer...)

There are clubs near me which have yet to be shot at, and which
certainly are competitively training and running sprints. Sprints
only. They, both kids and coaches, look in amazement at the thought
of running more than 1 lap of the track. The US does very, very
well at sprints.

Quoted message said:

Running is a johnny-come-lately sport, an after-thought. That has to
effect the talent pool.

_Distance_ running is an afterthought. Sprinting is much earlier
and more positively considered.

Unfortunately, perhaps, distance running has to be a later activity.
8 year olds really shouldn't be running 40 miles a week. Now, if we
had a better cultural attitude towards distance running, then the kids
(family, coaches, ...) would be looking forward to _getting_ to run
a whole mile! vs. the dread of punishment that it is currently sold
as.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

In article <[email hidden]>,

Doug Freese said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My coach thinks superior athletes choosing other sports, such as
baseball,
basketball, football, etc. which have more visibility and opportunity
to
turn talent into cash as being part of the problem in the US.

In addition to other sports, U.S. athletes are tempted by other opportunities
outside of sport not available to, say, the average Kenyan.

Take, e.g., Wes Santee, the great american 4:00 mile hope from the 1950s.
He could have gone on to a successful post-collegiate running
career, but no. Like many others, wooed away from the sport by the siren call
of a career in cemetary plot sales.

--
************************************************************************
Terry R. McConnell Mathematics/215 Carnegie/Syracuse, N.Y. 13244-1150
[email hidden] 229B Physics Bldg http://barnyard.syr.edu/~tmc
************************************************************************

<< Take, e.g., Wes Santee, the great american 4:00 mile hope from the 1950s.
He could have gone on to a successful post-collegiate running
career, but no. Like many others, wooed away from the sport by the siren call
of a career in cemetary plot sales. >>

Yes, that siren called,
Rather hurt my ears, too,
Due to my sensory x-tra-sensitivity~
Yes, tempting, that cemetery
Deed. Or just see:
"A Plot of One's Own,"
Yours truely,
A Morning Wood [forthcoming]
Publication ~

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
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