Alzheimer's defence

"JonMcD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A sad story of a cyclist killed by a driver said to have Alzheimer's
disease.

http://tinyurl.com/34vdd8

Seems a system open to abuse whereby elderly driver self-certify that they
are fit to drive even when they are nearly 90.

It would have been just as sad if the deceased had been another motorist or
a pedestrian.

"JonMcD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A sad story of a cyclist killed by a driver said to have Alzheimer's
disease.

http://tinyurl.com/34vdd8

Seems a system open to abuse whereby elderly driver self-certify that they
are fit to drive even when they are nearly 90.

JonMcD

I agree with the sentiment expressed here and on the link.

However elderly people can be extremely competent and safe drivers and I
believe insurance statistics support that view.

My 99 year old father ( 100 on 2 April this year) drove until he was 92
years old and to my knowledge only ever had two minor "bumps" and that was
in his late 40's.

In his latter driving years he used his car only to travel very locally and
never after dark. When he surrendered his licence he bought himself one of
those mobility scooter things but hated it -- he felt far to exposed to be
comfortable -- I know the feeling many times on my bike!

He still goes out 4 times a week and lives alone with me or my brother just
cooking his lunch most days. He is totally compost mentis and still beats me
hands down at mental arithmetic!

As I approach my 70th birthday this year I shall go to my doctor for his
approval to renew my driving licence. As a type 2 diabetic Both the DVLA
and my insurance company have been aware of my condition since it was first
diagnosed.

I also have an annual medical check up, usually just before I set off on my
annual, long cycle camping tour, and get further approval for my cycling
activities. By the way the cost of my annual cycle travel insurance policy
has tripled over the last 3 renewals -- and no "no claims bonuses" either.
I certainly hope to keep cycling, on road, for many more years yet and I
also hope to become aware of when I am no longer competent to be on my
velo.

On my trip down the Danube in 2005 I cycled and chatted, one morning, with a
93 year old Austrian lady who guided me through some local "umleitungs" (
diversions) and she more than matched my touring pace!

So in my 70th year I am just waiting to be told to get of the road by some
blind ( apparently) deaf ( obviously since they always shout) 25 year old
car "driver".

(Yesterday as I waited to enter a busy roundabout a car behind me nudged my
rear wheel twice, and the "yoof" shouted some incoherent abuse. Fortunately
there was a police car behind him ( see -- I said they were blind) and he
was pulled over after exiting the roundabout still behind me. I had much
pleasure in stopping and giving the police a statement as to his dangerous
actions!)
--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Pinky
[email hidden] says...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

(Yesterday as I waited to enter a busy roundabout a car behind me nudged my
rear wheel twice, and the "yoof" shouted some incoherent abuse. Fortunately
there was a police car behind him ( see -- I said they were blind) and he
was pulled over after exiting the roundabout still behind me. I had much
pleasure in stopping and giving the police a statement as to his dangerous
actions!)

I wonder if you can get him charged with assault with a deadly weapon.

"Pinky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

However elderly people can be extremely competent and safe drivers and I
believe insurance statistics support that view.

How much of that reduced risk is due to elderly drivers driving fewer miles
rather than them actually being safer per mile?

"Pinky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

He is totally compost mentis

Surely, that's someone with Altzheimers, isn't it?

Adam Lea said:

"Pinky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

However elderly people can be extremely competent and safe drivers
and I believe insurance statistics support that view.

How much of that reduced risk is due to elderly drivers driving fewer
miles rather than them actually being safer per mile?

You can speculate and counter speculate all you like....

Yes, it may be fewer miles, though most insurance comparative statistics
will correct for miles travelled.

One speculative factor might also driving at quieter times of the day. This
can be used as either a "granny bashing" or a "granny praising" factor
depending on your viewpoint:
"granny basher" - they have fewer accidents because there are fewer cars
around
"granny praiser" - they have fewer accidents because they have the sense to
drive when its safer, unlike the rest of the population.

Ditto for the speed they drive.
Ditto because they tend to drive shorter distances.
Ditto because they tend to drive less at night.

I support mandatory retesting of ALL holders of powered vehicle licenses for
vehicle control, sight tests and reaction times.
I would suggest every 5 years.
There may also be a case to make this testing more frequent for some "at
risk" groups. And that may include over 70's. But it might also include the
under 25's.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

graham said:

"Pinky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

He is totally compost mentis

Surely, that's someone with Altzheimers, isn't it?

Compos mentis is "of sound mind".

--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura Ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record Sprint mongrel

mb wrote on 24/02/2007 15:40 +0100:

Quoted message said:

graham said:

"Pinky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

He is totally compost mentis

Surely, that's someone with Altzheimers, isn't it?

Compos mentis is "of sound mind".

But Compost mentis is a rotted down brain presumably.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Tony Raven said:

mb wrote on 24/02/2007 15:40 +0100:

Quoted message said:

graham said:

"Pinky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

> He is totally compost mentis
Surely, that's someone with Altzheimers, isn't it?

Compos mentis is "of sound mind".

But Compost mentis is a rotted down brain presumably.

Yes, saw that. I did wonder but went for the serious answer 🙂

--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura Ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record Sprint mongrel

"JonMcD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A sad story of a cyclist killed by a driver said to have Alzheimer's
disease.

http://tinyurl.com/34vdd8

Seems a system open to abuse whereby elderly driver self-certify that they
are fit to drive even when they are nearly 90.

I don't know whether I have alzeimer's cos I can't remember!

Alan

Quoted message said:

JonMcD

in message <[email hidden]>, Alan Holmes

(') said:

"JonMcD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A sad story of a cyclist killed by a driver said to have Alzheimer's
disease.

http://tinyurl.com/34vdd8

Seems a system open to abuse whereby elderly driver self-certify that
they are fit to drive even when they are nearly 90.

I don't know whether I have alzeimer's cos I can't remember!

Alan, print this post off and carry a copy in your wallet: you have
Alzheimer's.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Q: What's a webmaster?
A: Like a spider, but nowhere near as intelligent.

Alan Holmes said:

I don't know whether I have alzeimer's cos I can't remember!

Groan...

My father had alzeimers. It was obvious he was unsafe on the road long
before the disease was officially diagnosed. He'd get confused with
obvious consequences (he'd scare the [censored] out of me sometimes.) We
asked my dad to stop driving long before the consulantant suggested it
and he did. I'm surprised the offending driver's family didn't do the
same. Unless it's just a ruse and he makes a "miraculous recovery"
after everything blows over.

"Adam Lea" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

"Pinky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

However elderly people can be extremely competent and safe drivers and I
believe insurance statistics support that view.

Quoted message said:

How much of that reduced risk is due to elderly drivers driving fewer miles
rather than them actually being safer per mile?

Quite a lot.

They also avoid:
the dark
unfamiliar roads
long journeys

etc, so their actual risk exposure is much less.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Young male drivers are far more dangerous than anyone else.

Garry from Cork said:

Young male drivers are far more dangerous than anyone else.

Can you back that assertion with facts, or is this just your personal
prejudice?

Al C-F said:

Garry from Cork said:

Young male drivers are far more dangerous than anyone else.

Can you back that assertion with facts, or is this just your personal
prejudice?

That's a a bit like being asked to prove the Pope wears a funny hat
isn't it ?

I don't know about the rest of you but I was much worse driver when I
was a lad, even though I was relatively sensible as lads go.
I'm not yet an old fart either, so no axe to grind.

Regarding old duffers driving, although the initial incident is
clearly a tragedy, in my experience though old duffers tend to drive
notionally "badly", they do risk-compensate by driving slowly and
ditheringly, quite apart from limiting journeys to daylight, familar
roads etc, and hence present little hazard to any half-way capable
driver with his wits about him. Any reasonably observant driver can
spot said old duffer dear some way off, give them plenty of room, and
let them safely do their thing (slowly). Accidents can result when the
"competent" driver gets impatient and does a reckless maneouver to
pass the "incompetent" but perfectly safe old biddy.
Treating them as slow-moving, albeit slightly unpredictable hazzards
like (say) a horse avoids most problems.

Younger drivers, (eg myself 20 years ago) have excellent reflexes /
reaction-times, good eyesight, natural affinity with the car, but
drive too fast, too close to the limit.

Slightly flippant tone not intended to offend the elderly, much less
those of the elderly who still drive normally as it were, but intended
to put the hazard in perspective.
Admittedly I'm too lazy to look up the real stats, but it's a pretty
good bet that people, lads especially, under 25 or even 30 cause far
more deaths than the odd past-it old gent, most of whom either pack
in, or at least seriously curtail the driving they are willing to do
once their abilities decline in any case.

There's a tradition in reacting to accidents to pick on minorities.
Some years ago, there was a serious minibus accident with lots of kids
killed. Terrible tradgedy, but instead of accepting this as an
anomaly, "something had to be done". Travel in a minibus was
(apparenlty) statistically safer than cars, but the solution was to
clamp down on minibus driving. You could probably do a calculation to
work out how many more deaths this safety measure created by
encouraging more car journeys rather than minibuses, quite apart from
the undesirablity of the extra vehicle journeys.

Sorry - turned into off topic rant.. Oh well.

Hywel

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Alan Holmes

(') said:

"JonMcD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A sad story of a cyclist killed by a driver said to have Alzheimer's
disease.

http://tinyurl.com/34vdd8

Seems a system open to abuse whereby elderly driver self-certify that
they are fit to drive even when they are nearly 90.

I don't know whether I have alzeimer's cos I can't remember!

Alan, print this post off and carry a copy in your wallet: you have
Alzheimer's.

But how would I remember it is in my wallet?

Alan

"Jose Marques" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2007-02-24 17:05:43 +0000, "Alan Holmes" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I don't know whether I have alzeimer's cos I can't remember!

Groan...

My father had alzeimers. It was obvious he was unsafe on the road long
before the disease was officially diagnosed. He'd get confused with
obvious consequences (he'd scare the [censored] out of me sometimes.) We asked
my dad to stop driving long before the consulantant suggested it and he
did. I'm surprised the offending driver's family didn't do the same.
Unless it's just a ruse and he makes a "miraculous recovery" after
everything blows over.

I would hope that if I was unfortunate enough to develop this disease,
someone would do their best to discourage me from driving.

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Al C-F

(') said:

Garry from Cork said:

Young male drivers are far more dangerous than anyone else.

Can you back that assertion with facts, or is this just your personal
prejudice?

Oh, come on! Yes, masses of statistics on that. E.g.:
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/library2/doc05/ras-53.htm

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

((DoctorWho)ChristopherEccleston).act();
uk.co.bbc.TypecastException: actor does not want to be typecast.
[adapted from autofile on /., 31/03/05]