Aluminum Frame Life Expectancy

"Can" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think a much more important thought is how long you Aluminum frame is going to last. I have
heard from unrelated professional sources that aluminum frames have a limited life span.
Apparently the aluminum fatigues at any load, so every pedal stroke reduces the life of your
frame, where steel, and titanium (not sure about carbon) only fatigue when large loads are placed
on the frames that are virtually unattainable in cycling, and then the steel or titanium have a
relatively long life even with frequent extreme loads. Aluminum also fails abrubtly, there is no
warning to the breaking from feeling alone, it just snaps. Though for the price you can afford to
buy a new one every 3-5 years... which is a valid consideration... I am researching Carbon at the
moment however I want the springy qualities of Steel or Ti, and I can flex my steel frame for the
poster who says it is not a realistic consideration, it is nice having the stored potential energy
in my frame to snap me into the next pedal stroke. I am going to choose steel, the ride qualities
are comprable to titanium, and with the product Frame-Saver I will not have to be as concerned
with corrosion. With the thousand dollars or so I will save, I am going to invest in clothing,
shoes, a few cans of Frame-Saver, and a carbon fork. I have looked at a lot of manufacturers out
there!! many many hours of browsing. If you have the budget, I would go with Serotta, Waterford,
Sycip, Ti Cycles, Sampson, Steelman, or Seven. I have found Sycip to have great deals on Ti
frames!! and the quality of all of these manufacturers is equisite (from what I have seen). I am
going with Waterford, or Serotta, at the moment, I am looking into custom frames to treasure for
the rest of my long cycling life. Though I am keeping my mind open to as many options as I can
wrap my mind and time around. Don't forget fit is more important that any other aspect of the
bike, unless your only going to use it for one event, and then I suppose you can endure. Serotta
has the best fit experience, from what I have seen and heard. Jacob.

--

See efbe.dedefbefrm.htmOpen ↗ , Public Reports

Can said:

I am going to choose steel, the ride qualities are comprable to titanium, and with the product
Frame-Saver I will not have to be as concerned with corrosion.

The only fail-safe way to avoid corrosion inside a steel frame is to fill the tubes with lead. This
has been discussed here before.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front _`\(,_ | of enough
typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of (_)/ (_) | them would reproduce the
collected works of Shakespeare. The internet has proven this not to be the case.

David L. Johnson said:

Can said:

I am going to choose steel, the ride qualities are comprable to titanium, and with the product
Frame-Saver I will not have to be as concerned with corrosion.

The only fail-safe way to avoid corrosion inside a steel frame is to fill the tubes with lead.
This has been discussed here before.

Lead is actually a bad choice here. It will cause the steel to corrode due to its place on the
galvanic index. Sodium would be the material of choice here. It's light, and will corrode before the
steel does. And if you ever get cold, just add water! Instant heat!

(wear safety goggles when adding water to sodium)

"Goimir" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The only fail-safe way to avoid corrosion inside a steel frame is to

fill

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the tubes with lead. This has been discussed here before.

Lead is actually a bad choice here. It will cause the steel to corrode due to its place on the
galvanic index. Sodium would be the material of choice here. It's light, and will corrode before
the steel does. And if you ever get cold, just add water! Instant heat!

(wear safety goggles when adding water to sodium)

Seal *all* the holes, and pump all the air our of the frame. Not only do you avoid any oxidation, it
will lighter and faster.

Pete

Quoted post said:

Seal *all* the holes, and pump all the air our of the frame. Not only do you avoid any oxidation, it
will lighter and faster.

No, no. Better by far to fill the frame with Helium. Inert gas so no oxidation and the added bonus of it being lighter than the air it replaced.

I wonder how much advantage would be gained by filling my tyres with Helium?

Or, living life on the edge, filling them with Hydrogen.

A vacuum is "lighter" than helium of same volume....and nothing is more than inert than nothing.

"Seamus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Seal *all* the holes, and pump all the air our of the frame. Not only

do

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you avoid any oxidation, it will lighter and faster.

No, no. Better by far to fill the frame with Helium. Inert gas so no oxidation and the added bonus
of it being lighter than the air it replaced.

I wonder how much advantage would be gained by filling my tyres with Helium?

Or, living life on the edge, filling them with Hydrogen.

--
Seamus Byke Kultuur Never at... uk.geocities.comnever.htmlOpen ↗ Cycling Movies Big
List at... uk.geocities.comfilms.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

--------------------------<

Posted via cyclingforums.com cyclingforums.comcyclingforums.comOpen ↗

Seamus said:

No, no. Better by far to fill the frame with Helium. Inert gas so no oxidation and the added bonus
of it being lighter than the air it replaced.

But do it at a high pressure so the inevitable slow leaks take a long while to reintroduce oxygen.

Quoted message said:

I wonder how much advantage would be gained by filling my tyres with Helium?

Wasn't there some discussion about F1 racers and dragracers' tyres being filled with H? Something to
do with the heat and combustion, IIRC, plus expansion with temperature.

Quoted message said:

Or, living life on the edge, filling them with Hydrogen.

Better have disk or drum brakes then.

Jasper

In article <[email hidden]>, usenet- [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Seal *all* the holes, and pump all the air our of the frame. Not only do you avoid any
oxidation, it will lighter and faster.

No, no. Better by far to fill the frame with Helium. Inert gas so no oxidation and the added bonus
of it being lighter than the air it replaced.

I wonder how much advantage would be gained by filling my tyres with Helium?

Whatever it is, it wouldn't last long. He will go through the pores in most rubber with no
problem. ....

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

"Jasper Janssen" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Wasn't there some discussion about F1 racers and dragracers' tyres being filled with H? Something
to do with the heat and combustion, IIRC, plus expansion with temperature.

Dunno about dragsters, but USAF aircraft tires are filled with Nitrogen. 250
psi, generally.

Pete

Can <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I think a much more important thought is how long you Aluminum frame is going to last. I have
heard from unrelated professional sources that aluminum frames have a limited life span.
Apparently the aluminum fatigues at any load, so every pedal stroke reduces the life of your
frame, where steel, and titanium (not sure about carbon) only fatigue when large loads are placed
on the frames that are virtually unattainable in cycling, and then the steel or titanium have a
relatively long life even with frequent extreme loads. Aluminum also fails abrubtly, there is no
warning to the breaking from feeling alone, it just snaps. <snip, or rather, snap>

I'm surprised more wings are not falling off of airplanes on a daily basis. 😉

The DC-3 will probably be the first aircraft to continuously be in operation for 100 years. IMHO,
it's not the material, but how it's used.

R.White said:

Can <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I think a much more important thought is how long you Aluminum frame is going to last. I have
heard from unrelated professional sources that aluminum frames have a limited life span.
Apparently the aluminum fatigues at any load, so every pedal stroke reduces the life of your
frame, where steel, and titanium (not sure about carbon) only fatigue when large loads are
placed on the frames that are virtually unattainable in cycling, and then the steel or titanium
have a relatively long life even with frequent extreme loads. Aluminum also fails abrubtly,
there is no warning to the breaking from feeling alone, it just snaps. <snip, or rather, snap>

I'm surprised more wings are not falling off of airplanes on a daily basis. 😉

Most light aircraft are built on a "fail safe" basis where the failure of one structural component
will not result in catastrophic failure. Heavier transport category aircraft generally use the "safe
life" design where structural components are replaced after a preset time in service.

Quoted message said:

The DC-3 will probably be the first aircraft to continuously be in operation for 100 years. IMHO,
it's not the material, but how it's used.

Long live the Gooney Bird!

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

"David Storm" <[email hidden]> Trimmed a lot of lines of quoting --- > then repasted the
authors suggested web site.

Quoted message said:

See efbe.dedefbefrm.htmOpen ↗ , Public Reports

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

R.White said:

Can <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I think a much more important thought is how long you Aluminum frame is going to last. I have
heard from unrelated professional sources that aluminum frames have a limited life span.
Apparently the aluminum fatigues at any load, so every pedal stroke reduces the life of your
frame, where steel, and titanium (not sure about carbon) only fatigue when large loads are
placed on the frames that are virtually unattainable in cycling, and then the steel or
titanium have a relatively long life even with frequent extreme loads. Aluminum also fails
abrubtly, there is no warning to the breaking from feeling alone, it just snaps. <snip, or
rather, snap>

I'm surprised more wings are not falling off of airplanes on a daily basis. 😉

Most light aircraft are built on a "fail safe" basis where the failure of one structural component
will not result in catastrophic failure. Heavier transport category aircraft generally use the
"safe life" design where structural components are replaced after a preset time in service.

Quoted message said:

The DC-3 will probably be the first aircraft to continuously be in operation for 100 years.
IMHO, it's not the material, but how it's used.

Long live the Gooney Bird!

And long live it shall!

If you haven't already seen one of these.... tinyurl.comg3ztOpen ↗

In article said:

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"R.White" wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Most light aircraft are built on a "fail safe" basis where the failure of one structural
component will not result in catastrophic failure. Heavier transport category aircraft generally
use the "safe life" design where structural components are replaced after a preset time in
service.

Quoted message said:

The DC-3 will probably be the first aircraft to continuously be in operation for 100 years.
IMHO, it's not the material, but how it's used.

Long live the Gooney Bird!

And long live it shall!

If you haven't already seen one of these.... tinyurl.comg3ztOpen ↗

A turboprop-equipped DC-3? Cool!

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

In article said:

Seamus said:

... I wonder how much advantage would be gained by filling my tyres with Helium?

Or, living life on the edge, filling them with Hydrogen....

Hydrogen molecules are very small, so pressure loss would occur rapidly requiring frequent
reinflation of the tires.

Gee I wonder if aircraft tires ever get hot.

Gives a new meaning to balooning a landing.

Paul Southworth said:

In article said:

Seamus said:

... I wonder how much advantage would be gained by filling my tyres with Helium?

Or, living life on the edge, filling them with Hydrogen....

Hydrogen molecules are very small, so pressure loss would occur rapidly requiring frequent
reinflation of the tires.

Gee I wonder if aircraft tires ever get hot.

Gives a new meaning to balooning a landing.

The tires get accelerated almost very rapidly from not rotating to the rotation speed of the
aircraft at landing. On large transport category aircraft, this can be in excess of 125 mph (200
kph). Since this does not occur instantaneously, the tire slides along the pavement and the
resulting clouds of tire smoke are clearly visible.

Transport category aircraft wheels are typically made from magnesium to save weight. Under emergency
braking, enough heat may be generated to set the tires and/or wheels on fire.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

The tires get accelerated almost very rapidly from not rotating to the rotation speed of the
aircraft at landing. On large transport category aircraft, this can be in excess of 125 mph (200
kph). Since this does not occur instantaneously, the tire slides along the pavement and the
resulting clouds of tire smoke are clearly visible.

Transport category aircraft wheels are typically made from magnesium to save weight. Under
emergency braking, enough heat may be generated to set the tires and/or wheels on fire.

After landing, there is a cone shaped hazard area directly outboard from the wheels. This is in case
the split rims blow from the brake disk heat transfer.

Pete

That happens even with air. Lose about 10 lb. a week from my tires. Would be even faster
with hydrogen.

--

- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist, Visual Basic programmer)
"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Seamus said:

... I wonder how much advantage would be gained by filling my tyres with Helium?

Or, living life on the edge, filling them with Hydrogen....

Hydrogen molecules are very small, so pressure loss would occur rapidly requiring frequent
reinflation of the tires.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

It's because air has oxygen, a corrosive gas. Nitrogen is inert.

--

- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist, Visual Basic programmer)
"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jasper Janssen" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Wasn't there some discussion about F1 racers and dragracers' tyres being filled with H?
Something to do with the heat and combustion, IIRC, plus expansion with temperature.

Dunno about dragsters, but USAF aircraft tires are filled with Nitrogen.

250

Quoted message said:

psi, generally.

Pete