Alternative ways are a threat?

Quoted message said:

Subject: Alternative ways are a threat?
From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
Date: 5/16/2004 6:08 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

More witch hunts by EOM. They have control problems. Their power will one day
crumble and all who engaged in this evil will be judged.

Jan

Quoted message said:

ACT I - The Charges

Escorted by armed police officers, the Quebec College of Physicians and
Surgeons raided a naturopathic clinic.

"Dr. Josee Rancourt, you are charged with using natural treatments with your
patients and you are to immediately withdraw the foreword you wrote for the
alternative cancer therapy book, The Bruess Juice Fast."

"Dr. Jerry Green, we charge you for placing far too much emphasis on
nutritional counseling."

"Dr. Jozef Krop, you are charged with using the following modalities in your
practice:

orthomolecular therapy (the use of vitamin and mineral supplements)
nutritional counseling and dietary modification
environmental control counseling (prescription for clean air, clean water
and clean food)
diagnosis and treatment of candidiasis (yeast infections)
diagnosis and treatment of food, inhalant and chemical sensitivities
use of intradermal and sublingual immunotherapies
detoxification therapy . . ."
Note: In Dr. Krop's case, these therapies are identical to those offered by
a government financed clinic situated on the east coast in the same country.

The Year: 1997
The Country: Canada
On Trial: Your Freedom of Choice
The Persecutors: Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons (COPS)
The Intent: To revoke medical licenses and/or prevent physicians from
offering complementary therapies
The Defense Team: You, me, and other citizens concerned about our freedom of
choice

ACT II - The Cross-Examination

Question: Were there any patient complaints?

Answer: None. There was only praise from the thousands of patients who were
unable to obtain relief through standard medical practices.

Question: What are the COPS afraid of? That people will actually recover
from chronic illnesses after orthodox treatments have failed?

Answer: Good question. Fear often translates into persecution.

Question: When were the charges in the Jozef Krop case laid?

Answer: Amazingly, eight years ago, in 1989. In any court in this land,
criminal or civil, these charges would have been dropped. Due process, the
right to a fair and expeditious (speedy) trial, has been denied this
defendant. Knowing their case is flimsy, the CPSO has resorted to trial by
ordeal and harassment. They intend to wear the defendant down physically,
spiritually, and economically.

DR. JOSEF KROP

Dr. Krop was a founding member of the Canadian Society of Environmental
Medicine and is an internationally recognized leader in that field. His
techniques of combining traditional medical and environmental therapies are
widely copied in the U.S., the U.K., Europe, Australia and China.

"You will never find a more dedicated, caring, concerned, thoughtful
physician in this world," says widely acclaimed American doctor Doris Rapp.
"He is the type of doctor that should be emulated, not chastised."

Quoted message said:

Subject: Alternative ways are a threat?
From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
Date: 5/16/04 10:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

May I propose a challange to you and seek your help?

Sometime circa 1911 to 1919 the Royal Medical Society of ...Toronto or
Quebec...and I forget which one, did an eight year study to prove whether
bacteria really could cause disease or not. After the study, the doctors
concluded that bacteria may be involved in disease like bystanders, but in no
way do bacteria cause disease. As I recall, they used all manner of bacteria,
either alone or in combination with other bacteria.
Could it be possible for you to research this epic study and tell us where the
data and information has been hidden?

DrC PhD

[email hidden] (DRCEEPHD) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Alternative ways are a threat?
From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
Date: 5/16/04 10:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

May I propose a challange to you and seek your help?

Sometime circa 1911 to 1919 the Royal Medical Society of ...Toronto or
Quebec...and I forget which one, did an eight year study to prove whether
bacteria really could cause disease or not. After the study, the doctors
concluded that bacteria may be involved in disease like bystanders, but in no
way do bacteria cause disease. As I recall, they used all manner of bacteria,
either alone or in combination with other bacteria.
Could it be possible for you to research this epic study and tell us where the
data and information has been hidden?

Probably under the data & information compiled in the intervening 85+ years......

I believe that Quebec has failed to control quacks, including
naturopaths who have no license. A recent case in point about quacks
who injure patients may be just what spamming Dave needs to read:

Vera

http://www.medicalpost.com/mpcontent/article.jsp?content=20040511_212218_4948

Que. naturopath sued over neck manoeuvre

Young woman claims treatment caused a cerebral hemorrhage that left
her paralysed

By Mark Cardwell

MONTREAL – The neck manipulations performed on a young woman sick with
the flu caused a cerebral hemorrhage that left her a quadriplegic,
it's claimed in a $2.2-million lawsuit.

According to a proof of claim filed in Quebec Superiour Court here in
early April, Emilie Pigeon, 21, was an active fashion designer with a
promising future when she consulted naturopath/osteopath Jean Vandal
on April 3, 2001.

The lawsuit claims that during the visit, Vandal performed a
chiropractic-like neck manoeuvre on Pigeon.

The court filing goes on to say that two days later, on the morning of
April 5, Pigeon was found in her bed unconscious, incontinent,
suffering from convulsions and foaming at the mouth.

Pigeon was rushed to the emergency room at Cité de la Santé de Laval
hospital, where doctors initially suspected she was suffering from
meningitis. A subsequent brain scan, however, revealed blood clotting
in the brain. Â

Later that day, radiologist Dr. Normand Charlebois detected a cervical
dissection of the vertebral artery, the lawsuit further claims.

Pigeon was then transferred to Hôpital Notre-Dame, where an
intra-arterial thrombolysis was performed the following day.

Though she later regained consciousness, Pigeon had no horizontal eye
movement, was quadriplegic spastic and felt pain in all four members,
it's claimed.Â

She spent the next 30 days in intensive care and underwent more
interventions, including a tracheotomy that resulted from a case of
pneumonia she developed, according to the claim.

The claim goes on to say Pigeon was later transferred to the Montreal
Rehabilitation Institute. Her condition improved little in 169 days of
therapy there. She did regain some feeling on her left side, which
enables her to drive an electric wheelchair.Â

Unable to speak properly, she is also now forced to communicate via a
computer.

"We want to make sure this kind of thing never happens to anyone
else," said Jean-Pierre Menard, the lawyer representing Pigeon and
three family members who are suing Vandal for $2.2 million. Almost the
entire amount, $2.1 million, is claimed as compensation for Pigeon's
injury, suffering and destroyed life.

Menard said Vandal describes himself as an osteopath, a naturopath, a
psychotherapist, a massotherapist, a homeopath and a
hypnotherapist—yet is not registered with any professional orders in
Quebec.

Menard said he was unsure if Vandal has liability insurance.

The case comes on the heels of a public furor that swept across Quebec
in March, when an unlicensed acupuncturist admitted she used
unsterilized needles on hundreds of patients over the past several
years.

In a separate case in Toronto, the family of a woman who died after a
neck adjustment is suing for $12.5 million.

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

ACT I - The Charges

Escorted by armed police officers, the Quebec College of Physicians and
Surgeons raided a naturopathic clinic.

"Dr. Josee Rancourt, you are charged with using natural treatments with your
patients and you are to immediately withdraw the foreword you wrote for the
alternative cancer therapy book, The Bruess Juice Fast."

"Vera Teasdale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I believe that Quebec has failed to control quacks, including
naturopaths who have no license. A recent case in point about quacks
who injure patients may be just what spamming Dave needs to read:

Vera

http://www.medicalpost.com/mpcontent/article.jsp?content=20040511_212218_4948

Quoted message said:

Que. naturopath sued over neck manoeuvre

Young woman claims treatment caused a cerebral hemorrhage that left
her paralysed

By Mark Cardwell

MONTREAL - The neck manipulations performed on a young woman sick with
the flu caused a cerebral hemorrhage that left her a quadriplegic,
it's claimed in a $2.2-million lawsuit.

According to a proof of claim filed in Quebec Superiour Court here in
early April, Emilie Pigeon, 21, was an active fashion designer with a
promising future when she consulted naturopath/osteopath Jean Vandal
on April 3, 2001.

The lawsuit claims that during the visit, Vandal performed a
chiropractic-like neck manoeuvre on Pigeon.

The court filing goes on to say that two days later, on the morning of
April 5, Pigeon was found in her bed unconscious, incontinent,
suffering from convulsions and foaming at the mouth.

Pigeon was rushed to the emergency room at Cité de la Santé de Laval
hospital, where doctors initially suspected she was suffering from
meningitis. A subsequent brain scan, however, revealed blood clotting
in the brain. Â

Later that day, radiologist Dr. Normand Charlebois detected a cervical
dissection of the vertebral artery, the lawsuit further claims.

Pigeon was then transferred to Hôpital Notre-Dame, where an
intra-arterial thrombolysis was performed the following day.

Though she later regained consciousness, Pigeon had no horizontal eye
movement, was quadriplegic spastic and felt pain in all four members,
it's claimed.Â

She spent the next 30 days in intensive care and underwent more
interventions, including a tracheotomy that resulted from a case of
pneumonia she developed, according to the claim.

The claim goes on to say Pigeon was later transferred to the Montreal
Rehabilitation Institute. Her condition improved little in 169 days of
therapy there. She did regain some feeling on her left side, which
enables her to drive an electric wheelchair.Â

Unable to speak properly, she is also now forced to communicate via a
computer.

"We want to make sure this kind of thing never happens to anyone
else," said Jean-Pierre Menard, the lawyer representing Pigeon and
three family members who are suing Vandal for $2.2 million. Almost the
entire amount, $2.1 million, is claimed as compensation for Pigeon's
injury, suffering and destroyed life.

Menard said Vandal describes himself as an osteopath, a naturopath, a
psychotherapist, a massotherapist, a homeopath and a
hypnotherapist-yet is not registered with any professional orders in
Quebec.

Menard said he was unsure if Vandal has liability insurance.

The case comes on the heels of a public furor that swept across Quebec
in March, when an unlicensed acupuncturist admitted she used
unsterilized needles on hundreds of patients over the past several
years.

In a separate case in Toronto, the family of a woman who died after a
neck adjustment is suing for $12.5 million.

So.... You position is that this kind of thing only happens with
"unlicensed" practitioners? How many such cases do you think happen with
licensees? The problem looks like a VERY small number are hurt by the
unlicensed, while it happens everyday in the "licensed" places, and you say
nothing.

"mdd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

So.... You position is that this kind of thing only happens with
"unlicensed" practitioners? How many such cases do you think happen with
licensees? The problem looks like a VERY small number are hurt by the
unlicensed, while it happens everyday in the "licensed" places, and you say
nothing.

And how many times do you say something about alternative health
quacks?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Menard said Vandal describes himself as an osteopath, a naturopath, a
psychotherapist, a massotherapist, a homeopath and a
hypnotherapist-yet is not registered with any professional orders in
Quebec.

This charlatan claimed to have skills he didn't have. Licensed or
not, it's a clear cut case of fraud. I would say the same thing if an
MD claimed to be a surgical specialist & wasn't.

It's doubtful he has any insurance to pay for the damages inflicted.
What is the patient's recourse? The majority of licensed
practitioners carry insurance -- at least the patient's medical bills
would get paid.

In addition, licensed practitioners must have training as mandated by
the licensing body in order to get their license. An unlicensed
practitioner must have ...... what?

"Michele" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"mdd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So.... You position is that this kind of thing only happens with
"unlicensed" practitioners? How many such cases do you think happen with
licensees? The problem looks like a VERY small number are hurt by the
unlicensed, while it happens everyday in the "licensed" places, and you

say

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

nothing.

And how many times do you say something about alternative health
quacks?

The point is that there are far fewer opertunitys to say such things about
Alt practitioners. So one wonders why you do not mention the thousands of
folks harmed by conventional medicine?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Menard said Vandal describes himself as an osteopath, a naturopath, a
psychotherapist, a massotherapist, a homeopath and a
hypnotherapist-yet is not registered with any professional orders in
Quebec.

He thinks highly of himself? But when an MD can watch some vidios of
acupunture and then sell himself as qualified to perform it, what real
difference do you see?

Quoted message said:

This charlatan claimed to have skills he didn't have. Licensed or
not, it's a clear cut case of >fraud.

True , like the aformentioned MD.

Quoted message said:

I would say the same thing if an
MD claimed to be a surgical specialist & >wasn't.

How bout what they need do to qualify to do laser surgery? Something along
the lines of WATCH another do it, ONCE?

Quoted message said:

It's doubtful he has any insurance to pay for the damages inflicted.
What is the patient's recourse? The majority of licensed
practitioners carry insurance -- at least the patient's medical bills
would get paid.

F--k the medical bills! Pay the injured party first, a lot, and then if
there is any left, let the hospital and doctors fight over it.

Quoted message said:

In addition, licensed practitioners must have training as mandated by
the licensing body in order to get their license.

And that "training" is as good as nothing in many areas. Why do you not
complaine about THAT?
You know, some people think that Medicine and Healing is an art, or a
calling , not something you go to school and memorize the answers for.

Quoted message said:

An unlicensed
practitioner must have ...... what?

One might look for recommendations?

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Alternative ways are a threat?
From: "mdd" [email hidden]
Date: 5/18/2004 12:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The point is that there are far fewer opertunitys to say such things about
Alt practitioners. So one wonders wh

perhaps because alties are NOT governed by any agency that REPORTS such issues
of operating well beyond their knowledge base (unless of course they are
arrested)...on the other hand..BECAUSE legitimate practitioners ARE
licensed...instances of bad practice are likely to become public knowledge..

so ...it is NOT an issue of "less harmed by alties"...but LESS reported...or
better still...more not helped at all....so who would report and write this
up??

Quoted message said:

He thinks highly of himself? But when an MD can watch some vidios of
acupunture and then sell himself as qualified to perform it, what real
difference do you see?

I don't personally know of any md's that practice acupuncture..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This charlatan claimed to have skills he didn't have. Licensed or
not, it's a clear cut case of >fraud.

True , like the aformentioned MD.

true...if an MD is calling himself an expert ..and is not...the difference
being that the consumer has avenues of recourse IF a practitioner is licensed
and has malpractice....what does an altie have to lose??

Quoted message said:

How bout what they need do to qualify to do laser surgery? Something along
the lines of WATCH another do it, ONCE?

the above goes under the category of "it is your responsibility to seek out
practitoners that ARE skilled"...again..in EOM there are numerous ways to check
credentials,,records of lawsuits filed..etc etc...

when I was planning on LASIK eye correction...it was VERY easy to search in my
area..eliminating those that advertised $500 per eye...I located a guy who was
trained in South America by the guy who invented the LASIK procedure...by the
time I had mine..this guy had done about 30,000 procedures...

anyone who allows ANY practioner (altie or conventional) to operate on them
without checking them out...well...nuff said..

BTW...have been in medicine for 35 years...your "story" of watch one ,,do
one...you may be confusing with the medical resident motto..."watch one,,do
one,,teach one"...however ...this does NOT hold true for surgical and other
operative procedures...do you really think ANY doc (who values his
career)..would be in surgery ALONE after only watching one???

yikes..

Quoted message said:

F--k the medical bills! Pay the injured party first, a lot, and then if

"doesn't pay the injured party"..imply the injured party gets the money???

again...where/who does one sue if maimed/killed....etc by the likes of Hulda
Clark who protects herself by being 5 miles outside of the USA????

nada

Quoted message said:

In addition, licensed practitioners must have training as mandated by

Quoted message said:

the licensing body in order to get their license.

Quoted message said:

And that "training" is as good as nothing in many areas. Why do you

again...what is your experience in this??

my "training" was very extensive..well supervised and requires a LOT of
continuing education to maintain...so does EVERY licensed healthcare provider
in the US....

who "trains and follows up" on the Hulda's of the world??? nada

hawki.....

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Alternative ways are a threat?
From: "mdd" [email hidden]
Date: 5/18/2004 12:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The point is that there are far fewer opertunitys to say such things

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Alt practitioners. So one wonders wh

perhaps because alties are NOT governed by any agency that REPORTS such

issues

Quoted message said:

of operating well beyond their knowledge base (unless of course they are
arrested)...on the other hand..BECAUSE legitimate practitioners ARE
licensed...instances of bad practice are likely to become public

knowledge..

Quoted message said:

so ...it is NOT an issue of "less harmed by alties"...but LESS

reported...or

Quoted message said:

better still...more not helped at all....so who would report and write

this

Quoted message said:

up??

Quoted message said:

He thinks highly of himself? But when an MD can watch some vidios of
acupunture and then sell himself as qualified to perform it, what real
difference do you see?

I don't personally know of any md's that practice acupuncture..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This charlatan claimed to have skills he didn't have. Licensed or
not, it's a clear cut case of >fraud.

True , like the aformentioned MD.

true...if an MD is calling himself an expert ..and is not...the difference
being that the consumer has avenues of recourse IF a practitioner is

licensed

Quoted message said:

and has malpractice....what does an altie have to lose??

Quoted message said:

How bout what they need do to qualify to do laser surgery? Something

along

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the lines of WATCH another do it, ONCE?

the above goes under the category of "it is your responsibility to seek

out

Quoted message said:

practitoners that ARE skilled"...again..in EOM there are numerous ways to

check

Quoted message said:

credentials,,records of lawsuits filed..etc etc...

when I was planning on LASIK eye correction...it was VERY easy to search

in my

Quoted message said:

area..eliminating those that advertised $500 per eye...I located a guy who

was

Quoted message said:

trained in South America by the guy who invented the LASIK procedure...by

the

Quoted message said:

time I had mine..this guy had done about 30,000 procedures...

anyone who allows ANY practioner (altie or conventional) to operate on

them

Quoted message said:

without checking them out...well...nuff said..

BTW...have been in medicine for 35 years...your "story" of watch one ,,do
one...you may be confusing with the medical resident motto..."watch

one,,do

Quoted message said:

one,,teach one"...however ...this does NOT hold true for surgical and

other

Quoted message said:

operative procedures...do you really think ANY doc (who values his
career)..would be in surgery ALONE after only watching one???

yikes..

Quoted message said:

F--k the medical bills! Pay the injured party first, a lot, and then if

"doesn't pay the injured party"..imply the injured party gets the money???

again...where/who does one sue if maimed/killed....etc by the likes of

Hulda

Quoted message said:

Clark who protects herself by being 5 miles outside of the USA????

nada

Quoted message said:

In addition, licensed practitioners must have training as mandated by

Quoted message said:

the licensing body in order to get their license.

Quoted message said:

And that "training" is as good as nothing in many areas. Why do you

again...what is your experience in this??

my "training" was very extensive..well supervised and requires a LOT of
continuing education to maintain...so does EVERY licensed healthcare

provider

Quoted message said:

in the US....

who "trains and follows up" on the Hulda's of the world??? nada

hawki.....

Excuse me, I did not know this was a Hulda thread.

"mdd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Alternative ways are a threat?
From: "mdd" [email hidden]
Date: 5/18/2004 12:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The point is that there are far fewer opertunitys to say such things

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Alt practitioners. So one wonders wh

perhaps because alties are NOT governed by any agency that REPORTS such

issues

Quoted message said:

of operating well beyond their knowledge base (unless of course they are
arrested)...on the other hand..BECAUSE legitimate practitioners ARE
licensed...instances of bad practice are likely to become public

knowledge..

Quoted message said:

so ...it is NOT an issue of "less harmed by alties"...but LESS

reported...or

Quoted message said:

better still...more not helped at all....so who would report and write

this

Quoted message said:

up??

Quoted message said:

He thinks highly of himself? But when an MD can watch some vidios of
acupunture and then sell himself as qualified to perform it, what real
difference do you see?

I don't personally know of any md's that practice acupuncture..

Quoted message said:

> This charlatan claimed to have skills he didn't have. Licensed or
> not, it's a clear cut case of >fraud.

True , like the aformentioned MD.

true...if an MD is calling himself an expert ..and is not...the

difference

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

being that the consumer has avenues of recourse IF a practitioner is

licensed

Quoted message said:

and has malpractice....what does an altie have to lose??

Quoted message said:

How bout what they need do to qualify to do laser surgery? Something

along

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the lines of WATCH another do it, ONCE?

the above goes under the category of "it is your responsibility to seek

out

Quoted message said:

practitoners that ARE skilled"...again..in EOM there are numerous ways

to

Quoted message said:

check

Quoted message said:

credentials,,records of lawsuits filed..etc etc...

when I was planning on LASIK eye correction...it was VERY easy to search

in my

Quoted message said:

area..eliminating those that advertised $500 per eye...I located a guy

who

Quoted message said:

was

Quoted message said:

trained in South America by the guy who invented the LASIK

procedure...by

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

time I had mine..this guy had done about 30,000 procedures...

anyone who allows ANY practioner (altie or conventional) to operate on

them

Quoted message said:

without checking them out...well...nuff said..

BTW...have been in medicine for 35 years...your "story" of watch one

,,do

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one...you may be confusing with the medical resident motto..."watch

one,,do

Quoted message said:

one,,teach one"...however ...this does NOT hold true for surgical and

other

Quoted message said:

operative procedures...do you really think ANY doc (who values his
career)..would be in surgery ALONE after only watching one???

yikes..

Quoted message said:

F--k the medical bills! Pay the injured party first, a lot, and then if

"doesn't pay the injured party"..imply the injured party gets the

money???

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

again...where/who does one sue if maimed/killed....etc by the likes of

Hulda

Quoted message said:

Clark who protects herself by being 5 miles outside of the USA????

nada

Quoted message said:

In addition, licensed practitioners must have training as mandated by
> the licensing body in order to get their license.

Quoted message said:

And that "training" is as good as nothing in many areas. Why do you

again...what is your experience in this??

my "training" was very extensive..well supervised and requires a LOT of
continuing education to maintain...so does EVERY licensed healthcare

provider

Quoted message said:

in the US....

who "trains and follows up" on the Hulda's of the world??? nada

hawki.....

Excuse me, I did not know this was a Hulda thread.

The title of this thread is "Alternative ways are a threat?" Hulda's
alternative ways are a threat. Nuff said.

--Rich

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"mdd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>Subject: Re: Alternative ways are a threat?
>From: "mdd" [email hidden]
>Date: 5/18/2004 12:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <[email hidden]>

>The point is that there are far fewer opertunitys to say such things

about

Quoted message said:

>Alt practitioners. So one wonders wh

perhaps because alties are NOT governed by any agency that REPORTS

such

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

issues

Quoted message said:

of operating well beyond their knowledge base (unless of course they

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

arrested)...on the other hand..BECAUSE legitimate practitioners ARE
licensed...instances of bad practice are likely to become public

knowledge..

Quoted message said:

so ...it is NOT an issue of "less harmed by alties"...but LESS

reported...or

Quoted message said:

better still...more not helped at all....so who would report and write

this

Quoted message said:

up??

>He thinks highly of himself? But when an MD can watch some vidios of
>acupunture and then sell himself as qualified to perform it, what

real

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>difference do you see?

I don't personally know of any md's that practice acupuncture..

>> This charlatan claimed to have skills he didn't have. Licensed or
>> not, it's a clear cut case of >fraud.
>
>True , like the aformentioned MD.

true...if an MD is calling himself an expert ..and is not...the

difference

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

being that the consumer has avenues of recourse IF a practitioner is

licensed

Quoted message said:

and has malpractice....what does an altie have to lose??

>How bout what they need do to qualify to do laser surgery? Something

along

Quoted message said:

>the lines of WATCH another do it, ONCE?

the above goes under the category of "it is your responsibility to

seek

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

out

Quoted message said:

practitoners that ARE skilled"...again..in EOM there are numerous ways

to

Quoted message said:

check

Quoted message said:

credentials,,records of lawsuits filed..etc etc...

when I was planning on LASIK eye correction...it was VERY easy to

search

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in my

Quoted message said:

area..eliminating those that advertised $500 per eye...I located a guy

who

Quoted message said:

was

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trained in South America by the guy who invented the LASIK

procedure...by

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

time I had mine..this guy had done about 30,000 procedures...

anyone who allows ANY practioner (altie or conventional) to operate on

them

Quoted message said:

without checking them out...well...nuff said..

BTW...have been in medicine for 35 years...your "story" of watch one

,,do

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one...you may be confusing with the medical resident motto..."watch

one,,do

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one,,teach one"...however ...this does NOT hold true for surgical and

other

Quoted message said:

operative procedures...do you really think ANY doc (who values his
career)..would be in surgery ALONE after only watching one???

yikes..

>F--k the medical bills! Pay the injured party first, a lot, and then

if

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"doesn't pay the injured party"..imply the injured party gets the

money???

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

again...where/who does one sue if maimed/killed....etc by the likes of

Hulda

Quoted message said:

Clark who protects herself by being 5 miles outside of the USA????

nada

> In addition, licensed practitioners must have training as mandated

by

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> the licensing body in order to get their license.

>And that "training" is as good as nothing in many areas. Why do you

again...what is your experience in this??

my "training" was very extensive..well supervised and requires a LOT

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

continuing education to maintain...so does EVERY licensed healthcare

provider

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in the US....

who "trains and follows up" on the Hulda's of the world??? nada

hawki.....

Excuse me, I did not know this was a Hulda thread.

The title of this thread is "Alternative ways are a threat?" Hulda's
alternative ways are a threat. Nuff said.

--Rich

To try grouping all Alternative Medicine with Hulda, is wrong. But it IS so
very typical of you and a few others here.

"mdd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"mdd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> >Subject: Re: Alternative ways are a threat?
> >From: "mdd" [email hidden]
> >Date: 5/18/2004 12:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <[email hidden]>
>
> >The point is that there are far fewer opertunitys to say such

things

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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about
> >Alt practitioners. So one wonders wh
>
> perhaps because alties are NOT governed by any agency that REPORTS

such

Quoted message said:

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issues
> of operating well beyond their knowledge base (unless of course they

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> arrested)...on the other hand..BECAUSE legitimate practitioners ARE
> licensed...instances of bad practice are likely to become public
knowledge..
>
> so ...it is NOT an issue of "less harmed by alties"...but LESS
reported...or
> better still...more not helped at all....so who would report and

write

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this
> up??
>
> >He thinks highly of himself? But when an MD can watch some vidios

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >acupunture and then sell himself as qualified to perform it, what

real

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >difference do you see?
>
> I don't personally know of any md's that practice acupuncture..
>
> >> This charlatan claimed to have skills he didn't have. Licensed

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >> not, it's a clear cut case of >fraud.
> >
> >True , like the aformentioned MD.
>
> true...if an MD is calling himself an expert ..and is not...the

difference

Quoted message said:

> being that the consumer has avenues of recourse IF a practitioner is
licensed
> and has malpractice....what does an altie have to lose??
>
> >How bout what they need do to qualify to do laser surgery?

Something

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

along
> >the lines of WATCH another do it, ONCE?
>
> the above goes under the category of "it is your responsibility to

seek

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

out
> practitoners that ARE skilled"...again..in EOM there are numerous

ways

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

check
> credentials,,records of lawsuits filed..etc etc...
>
> when I was planning on LASIK eye correction...it was VERY easy to

search

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in my
> area..eliminating those that advertised $500 per eye...I located a

guy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who

Quoted message said:

was
> trained in South America by the guy who invented the LASIK

procedure...by

Quoted message said:

the
> time I had mine..this guy had done about 30,000 procedures...
>
> anyone who allows ANY practioner (altie or conventional) to operate

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

them
> without checking them out...well...nuff said..
>
> BTW...have been in medicine for 35 years...your "story" of watch one

,,do

Quoted message said:

> one...you may be confusing with the medical resident motto..."watch
one,,do
> one,,teach one"...however ...this does NOT hold true for surgical

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

other
> operative procedures...do you really think ANY doc (who values his
> career)..would be in surgery ALONE after only watching one???
>
> yikes..
>
> >F--k the medical bills! Pay the injured party first, a lot, and

then

Quoted message said:

if

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> "doesn't pay the injured party"..imply the injured party gets the

money???

Quoted message said:

>
> again...where/who does one sue if maimed/killed....etc by the likes

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hulda
> Clark who protects herself by being 5 miles outside of the USA????
>
> nada
>
> > In addition, licensed practitioners must have training as mandated

by

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >> the licensing body in order to get their license.
>
> >And that "training" is as good as nothing in many areas. Why do you
>
> again...what is your experience in this??
>
> my "training" was very extensive..well supervised and requires a LOT

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> continuing education to maintain...so does EVERY licensed healthcare
provider
> in the US....
>
> who "trains and follows up" on the Hulda's of the world??? nada
>
>
> hawki.....
>
>
Excuse me, I did not know this was a Hulda thread.

The title of this thread is "Alternative ways are a threat?" Hulda's
alternative ways are a threat. Nuff said.

--Rich

To try grouping all Alternative Medicine with Hulda, is wrong. But it IS

so

Quoted message said:

very typical of you and a few others here.

Who is "grouping all Alternative Medicine with Hulda"? Hulda is an example
of A.M. at its worst. Nothing more. Hawki's use of this example is neither
improper nor off-topic.

--Rich

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

To try grouping all Alternative Medicine with Hulda, is wrong. But it IS

so

Quoted message said:

very typical of you and a few others here.

Who is "grouping all Alternative Medicine with Hulda"? Hulda is an example
of A.M. at its worst. Nothing more. Hawki's use of this example is neither
improper nor off-topic.

--Rich

You are wrong, again. But what else do you think is new?

"mdd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
>
>
>
To try grouping all Alternative Medicine with Hulda, is wrong. But it

IS

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so

Quoted message said:

very typical of you and a few others here.

Who is "grouping all Alternative Medicine with Hulda"? Hulda is an

example

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of A.M. at its worst. Nothing more. Hawki's use of this example is

neither

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

improper nor off-topic.

--Rich

You are wrong, again. But what else do you think is new?

No, I am NOT wrong, and neither is Hawki. She says:

"perhaps because alties are NOT governed by any agency that REPORTS such
issues
of operating well beyond their knowledge base (unless of course they are
arrested)...on the other hand..BECAUSE legitimate practitioners ARE
licensed...instances of bad practice are likely to become public
knowledge.."

If you care to refute that, be my guest, but you'll need to make a stronger
case than, "You are wrong." She says:

"again...where/who does one sue if maimed/killed....etc by the likes of
Hulda
Clark who protects herself by being 5 miles outside of the USA???? nada"

and

"who 'trains and follows up' on the Hulda's of the world??? nada"

If you care to refute those statements, be my guest, but you'll need to make
a stronger case than, "You are wrong." It's a good thing you are not a trial
lawyer. If you stand up for your final argument and say, "You are wrong,"
then sit down, you won't make many points with the jury.

Come on, Tools, you can do better than that.

--Rich

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >

Quoted message said:

"again...where/who does one sue if maimed/killed....etc by the likes of
Hulda
Clark who protects herself by being 5 miles outside of the USA????

nada"

Quoted message said:

Come on, Tools, you can do better than that.

--Rich

I don't suppose anyone would want to live in a world where you could not
sue. Why, the lawyers would go broke! .

In article <[email hidden]>,

Rich Shewmaker said:

"mdd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >

Quoted message said:

> >
> >
> >
> >
> To try grouping all Alternative Medicine with Hulda, is wrong. But it

IS

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so
> very typical of you and a few others here.
>
>

Who is "grouping all Alternative Medicine with Hulda"? Hulda is an

example

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of A.M. at its worst. Nothing more. Hawki's use of this example is

neither

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

improper nor off-topic.

--Rich

You are wrong, again. But what else do you think is new?

No, I am NOT wrong, and neither is Hawki. She says:

"perhaps because alties are NOT governed by any agency that REPORTS such
issues
of operating well beyond their knowledge base (unless of course they are
arrested)...on the other hand..BECAUSE legitimate practitioners ARE
licensed...instances of bad practice are likely to become public
knowledge.."

If you care to refute that, be my guest, but you'll need to make a stronger
case than, "You are wrong." She says:

"again...where/who does one sue if maimed/killed....etc by the likes of
Hulda
Clark who protects herself by being 5 miles outside of the USA???? nada"

and

"who 'trains and follows up' on the Hulda's of the world??? nada"

If you care to refute those statements, be my guest, but you'll need to make
a stronger case than, "You are wrong." It's a good thing you are not a trial
lawyer. If you stand up for your final argument and say, "You are wrong,"
then sit down, you won't make many points with the jury.

Come on, Tools, you can do better than that.

The sad thing is, he probably can't, at least not in this case.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Alternative ways are a threat?
From: "mdd" [email hidden]
Date: 5/25/04 5:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I don't suppose anyone would want to live in a world where you could not
sue. Why, the lawyers would go broke! .

I don't know about that, but at least they might have to work and produce
something of value.

DrC PhD