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Alternative Medicine Goes Mainstream

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
23 August 2003
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1 October 2003
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Jan
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  1. http://health.discovery.com/centers/althealth/medtrends/medtrends.html

    Alternative Medicine Goes Mainstream
    By Wynne Brown

    It now seems safe to say that alternative medicine is no longer on the fringe
    of health care.

    A visit to your neighborhood drug store tells the story. There, you'll find
    shelves stacked with about as many brands and types of vitamins as
    over-the-counter cold remedies.

    The trend reflects the fact that Americans spend more than $30 billion of their
    own money on complementary and alternative therapies each year, according to a
    1997 study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

    They also made 628 million visits to alternative health-care practitioners, 243
    million more than visits to all primary-care physicians. Nearly half of those
    visits were to chiropractors and massage therapists.

    Alternative Medicine Defined
    Dr. David Eisenberg is the author of that landmark study and director of the
    Center for Alternative Medicine and Research and Education at Beth Israel
    Deaconess and assistant professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, both
    in Boston.

    His definition of alternative medicine is any form of therapy not taught widely
    in medical schools or generally available in hospitals. The term "integrative"
    or "complementary" medicine refers to the weaving together of alternative
    options and allopathic or conventional science-based medicine.

    The list of alternative therapies changes frequently as more practices are
    proven safe and effective, but generally falls into five areas: traditional
    systems (Chinese, Ayurvedic); mind-body interventions (see "The Five Areas of
    Alternative Medicine"😉; hands-on body work; biological-based therapies
    (vitamins, herbs); and energy therapies.

    A key concept, according to Dr. David Edelberg, founder and former chairman of
    the integrated medicine clinic, WholeHealth in Chicago, is that most users of
    alternative medicine don't want to give up their conventional health care.
    "When we opened our center, we found people weren't giving up their family
    doctors, they simply wanted physician-supervised alternative medicine....They
    wanted a center that had two toolboxes," says Edelberg.

    What's Driving the Demand?
    Consumers, particularly those between 30 and 55, are powering the growth of
    alternative medicine. According to Eisenberg's 1997 testimony before the U.S.
    Senate, one out of every two boomers uses non-conventional therapies. What
    boomers seem to favor is the safe, noninvasive nature of alternative
    treatments. Furthermore, many alternative remedies hold the promise of slowing
    of the aging process.

    Mainstream (cont.)
    Another motivation is the increasing cost of health care—without an increase
    in the quality of the care, says Dr. Roger Jahnke, doctor of acupuncture and
    raditional Chinese medicine, chairperson of both the Qigong Department at the
    Santa Barbara (Calif.) College of Oriental Medicine and the National Qigong
    Association, and author of "The Healer Within."A third driver, says Edelberg,
    is that conventional doctors are coming around to accepting alternative
    therapies: "More papers are appearing on alternative medicine in conventional
    medicine journals; there's a National Institutes of Health division on it; and
    they themselves are experiencing it. We regularly have doctors coming into our
    clinic for chiropractic or acupuncture or sending their patients
    over...Cardiologists are taking antioxidants and vitamins, and psychiatrists
    are beginning to realize that St. John's wort actually works.

    " Choosing Safe and Effective Alternative Therapies
    Edelberg says attitudes toward alternative medicine still vary greatly by
    region, but that chiropractic is relatively common as is acupuncture. Usually,
    the more studies that have confirmed the efficacy of a particular therapy, the
    greater its acceptance. For instance a number of controlled studies have proven
    the effectiveness of acupuncture for treating a variety of conditions, from
    osteoarthritis to migraine headaches. Other studies have shown positive results
    in pain management and drug addiction—two areas where conventional medicine
    is limited. But as with anything else, it pays to be a careful consumer when it
    comes to alternative medicine. According to the Food and Drug Administration,
    the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, harmful alternative treatments
    include DMSO, laetrile, snake venom, coffee enemas, ozone generators, and
    ephedra (also known as ma huang). Studies have also shown some remedies to be
    harmless—but not necessarily effective. These include dong quai and wild yam.
    The latest research on using garlic to reduce blood pressure indicates the
    effect only lasts several months.

    Insurance coverage still iffy
    Though popular with the masses, alternative medicine has yet to be embraced by
    health insurers. In his 1987 testimony to the U.S. Senate, Dr. David Eisenberg
    described a patient who defined it as "therapies I have had to pay for out of
    pocket." That statement still sums up how often alternative medicine users are
    reimbursed by their insurance companies.

    It goes round and round," says Jahnke. "As an acupuncturist back in the '80s,
    probably 60 percent of my charges were reimbursed by insurance companies. But
    by the end of the '80s it was down again...And now there are what they call
    discount networks that are being contracted by insurance companies to provide,
    not reimbursed services, but discounted services." Dr. Vasant Lad is director
    of the Ayurveda Institute in Albuquerque, NM. Although he says Ayurvedic
    services are as popular as "hot cakes," insurance companies do not reimburse
    for them. John Weeks is editor and publisher of the newsletter, The Integrator
    for the Business of Alternative Medicine. He says, "From a consumer
    perspective, despite the increased interest, most payments are cash out of
    pocket." He added that there's been a trend over the past three years toward
    discounted access, in which the consumer pays a reduced rate and has the
    reassurance that the provider has met the insurance company's criteria. The
    modalities most often covered are chiropractic, massage, acupuncture and
    naturopathy.

    Power to the patient
    The real news about the growth of alternative medicine in the West is a
    shifting of responsibility from the doctor to the patient, says Jahnke. He says
    the key is "the revelation that 'Oh, you mean I can do something? And I can do
    it at home for free?'...The real breakthrough that's happening in health care
    right now is that we're realizing the client, the customer, the patient can
    also do something. "In fact, if you do something in a timely way, you might not
    need to be a patient."

  2. (Jan) said:

    http://health.discovery.com/centers/althealth/medtrends/medtrends.html

    Alternative Medicine Goes Mainstream
    By Wynne Brown

    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    They also made 628 million visits to alternative health-care practitioners, 243
    million more than visits to all primary-care physicians. Nearly half of those
    visits were to chiropractors and massage therapists.

    This is an example how the naturopath mafia forges with statictics.

    Of course they do it for money. Jan Drew is advertizing quackery. As
    is his only intention. Here again, as you can see. Jan Drew is part of
    the naturopath mafia and lures people into buying quackery and
    sharlatanism.

    If you do not want to ruin your health, do never trust criminals like
    Jan Drew !

    More about Jan Drew and his methods of operation you can find in the
    FAQ about Jan Drew, which is published in this news-group.

    Aribert Deckers
    --
    Schwerer Pfusch Arzneimittelprüfung

    http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_amp.htm

  3. Seems the quackery is supported by the Doctors as well dumbo.

    It is interesting to read the responses to recent postings on vitamins.
    Dr Kerryn Phelps is a former President of The Australian Medical
    Association.
    http://domino.ama.com.au/AMAWeb/about.nsf/0/aeef1123a8f357cd4a2568e1000df561?OpenDocument
    Dr Phelps's message is contained in the acrobat download at the end of this
    site. It was also published in every major newspaper in Australia last
    weekend.
    http://www.metagenics.com.au/

    "Happy Oyster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    (Jan) said:

    http://health.discovery.com/centers/althealth/medtrends/medtrends.html

    Alternative Medicine Goes Mainstream
    By Wynne Brown

    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    They also made 628 million visits to alternative health-care


    practitioners, 243

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    million more than visits to all primary-care physicians. Nearly half of


    those

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    visits were to chiropractors and massage therapists.

    This is an example how the naturopath mafia forges with statictics.

    Of course they do it for money. Jan Drew is advertizing quackery. As
    is his only intention. Here again, as you can see. Jan Drew is part of
    the naturopath mafia and lures people into buying quackery and
    sharlatanism.

    If you do not want to ruin your health, do never trust criminals like
    Jan Drew !

    More about Jan Drew and his methods of operation you can find in the
    FAQ about Jan Drew, which is published in this news-group.

    Aribert Deckers
    --
    Schwerer Pfusch Arzneimittelprüfung

    http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_amp.htm

  4. [email hidden] (Jan) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    http://health.discovery.com/centers/althealth/medtrends/medtrends.html


    *WHY DON'T MORE DOCTORS USE ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE?
    by http://altmedangel.com

    We wonder why alternatives are not being used by more doctors.
    Although they are being used by many, too many mainstream doctors
    today become so specialized that they treat the body parts and forget
    they are treating the whole body. This is fine for surgery, emergency
    or trauma but not for perpetuating good health.

    1. One reason for this specialization is that medical schools are
    organized into organ-specific departments with no common link
    between them. Although disease usually appears as a local
    symptom, it is always related to the entire system. So you must treat
    the whole person to cure the disease, otherwise you are just treating
    the symptom. The medical school department heads ignore or deride
    this idea to defend their own orthodox concepts.

    2. It takes time for new ideas to be accepted. In the 1800s, a
    Viennese doctor suggested that his colleagues wash their hands after
    they finish working on cadavers, instead of using their unwashed
    hands to deliver babies. After 30 years of ridicule and debate this
    idea finally caught on. How many babies died waiting for this idea
    to be accepted? How many cancer, heart and AIDS patients are
    dying today for the same reason?

    Many doctors today are refusing to accept the common sense truths
    that have existed for centuries. The "cut, burn and poison" mentality
    of fighting the war on disease that exists today, completely ignores
    the importance of the immune system. In fact, it often weakens an
    immune system that is already under assault.

    The important truth that is ignored is--it is not the doctors
    job to fight the war on disease. It is the patient's own
    immune system that must win that war. The doctor's job is
    to help the immune system and provide the tools with
    which it can fight. Since this is not being done in the U.S.,
    American doctors are winning many battles but losing
    many wars. The majority of cancer patients who are given
    a "clean bill of health" die within five years. No attention is
    being paid to the immune system because this area is out of
    the realm of drugs and modern medicine.

    3. Also one of the most powerful industries in America, the
    pharmaceutical industry, provides a huge amount of funding for the
    medical schools with the intent of marketing their medicines. There
    is a great deal of pressure from this industry to keep alternative
    methods from being taught. However, due to popular demand,
    some alternatives are now offered as electives. It's a small step--
    but it's a step in the right direction. Perhaps, 30 years from now,
    we may be living in a new era when we look back with great disgust at
    the many lives unnecessarily lost at the hands of conventional
    medicine.

    4. Why don't we hear more about natural medicine from the news
    media? We are hearing more and more from the news media every
    day. But have you ever counted the pharmaceutical advertisements
    during a typical one hour program --especially if it's a movie where
    one of the characters has a specific health problem? How many
    drug ads do you think you would see during an expose of the drug
    industry or a show on the benefits of alternative medicine? The
    news media, like everyone else, is in the business of making money.
    Much of those revenues come in the form of advertising dollars.
    The pharmaceutical giants spend dearly on advertising.

    5. Young doctors leaving medical school find themselves in a
    system that rewards "rescue medicine." That is what they are
    taught. There is no reward, and there may well be scorn from
    fellow doctors, for those who take the time to prevent illness or
    correct the deficiencies that may cause it. To do so would hurt the
    pocketbook of the medical establishment. Medical insurance
    supports this view. Financial rewards follow only from sticking to
    the model of ill-health and treatment. As educated consumers, we
    need to be keenly aware of the politics of conventional medical
    care.

    6. Malpractice is another great fear for doctors. The definition of
    malpractice is not whether the treatment is good or bad for the
    patient, but rather if the practice in question is what other doctors
    in
    the given locality normally do or prescribe. Did you ever wonder
    why some therapies are only available in certain localities or why
    you may have to travel to a big city for a particular treatment?

    7. We, the public, need to change our attitudes toward the
    "practice" of medicine. It's not about "medicine" or treating bad
    health. It's about producing good health. Drugs won't get you there
    and most of the time they will set you back by suppressing a
    symptom that is pointing to the real problem. Instead of treating the
    symptom, treat the cause. The symptom will then disappear. Only
    then will you experience a true cure.

    Quoted message said:

    Alternative Medicine Goes Mainstream
    By Wynne Brown

    It now seems safe to say that alternative medicine is no longer on the fringe
    of health care.

    A visit to your neighborhood drug store tells the story. There, you'll find
    shelves stacked with about as many brands and types of vitamins as
    over-the-counter cold remedies.

    The trend reflects the fact that Americans spend more than $30 billion of their
    own money on complementary and alternative therapies each year, according to a
    1997 study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

    They also made 628 million visits to alternative health-care practitioners, 243
    million more than visits to all primary-care physicians. Nearly half of those
    visits were to chiropractors and massage therapists.

    Alternative Medicine Defined
    Dr. David Eisenberg is the author of that landmark study and director of the
    Center for Alternative Medicine and Research and Education at Beth Israel
    Deaconess and assistant professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, both
    in Boston.

    His definition of alternative medicine is any form of therapy not taught widely
    in medical schools or generally available in hospitals. The term "integrative"
    or "complementary" medicine refers to the weaving together of alternative
    options and allopathic or conventional science-based medicine.

    The list of alternative therapies changes frequently as more practices are
    proven safe and effective, but generally falls into five areas: traditional
    systems (Chinese, Ayurvedic); mind-body interventions (see "The Five Areas of
    Alternative Medicine"😉; hands-on body work; biological-based therapies
    (vitamins, herbs); and energy therapies.

    A key concept, according to Dr. David Edelberg, founder and former chairman of
    the integrated medicine clinic, WholeHealth in Chicago, is that most users of
    alternative medicine don't want to give up their conventional health care.
    "When we opened our center, we found people weren't giving up their family
    doctors, they simply wanted physician-supervised alternative medicine....They
    wanted a center that had two toolboxes," says Edelberg.

    What's Driving the Demand?
    Consumers, particularly those between 30 and 55, are powering the growth of
    alternative medicine. According to Eisenberg's 1997 testimony before the U.S.
    Senate, one out of every two boomers uses non-conventional therapies. What
    boomers seem to favor is the safe, noninvasive nature of alternative
    treatments. Furthermore, many alternative remedies hold the promise of slowing
    of the aging process.

    Mainstream (cont.)
    Another motivation is the increasing cost of health


    careâÂÃÂ
    ‚ƒÃƒÂ‚ƒÃ‚‚€"without
    an increase

    Quoted message said:

    in the quality of the care, says Dr. Roger Jahnke, doctor of acupuncture and
    raditional Chinese medicine, chairperson of both the Qigong Department at the
    Santa Barbara (Calif.) College of Oriental Medicine and the National Qigong
    Association, and author of "The Healer Within."A third driver, says Edelberg,
    is that conventional doctors are coming around to accepting alternative
    therapies: "More papers are appearing on alternative medicine in conventional
    medicine journals; there's a National Institutes of Health division on it; and
    they themselves are experiencing it. We regularly have doctors coming into our
    clinic for chiropractic or acupuncture or sending their patients
    over...Cardiologists are taking antioxidants and vitamins, and psychiatrists
    are beginning to realize that St. John's wort actually works.

    " Choosing Safe and Effective Alternative Therapies
    Edelberg says attitudes toward alternative medicine still vary greatly by
    region, but that chiropractic is relatively common as is acupuncture. Usually,
    the more studies that have confirmed the efficacy of a particular therapy, the
    greater its acceptance. For instance a number of controlled studies have proven
    the effectiveness of acupuncture for treating a variety of conditions, from
    osteoarthritis to migraine headaches. Other studies have shown positive results
    in pain management and drug


    addictionâÂÃÂÂ
    ƒÂƒÃ‚‚€"two
    areas where conventional medicine

    Quoted message said:

    is limited. But as with anything else, it pays to be a careful consumer when it
    comes to alternative medicine. According to the Food and Drug Administration,
    the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, harmful alternative treatments
    include DMSO, laetrile, snake venom, coffee enemas, ozone generators, and
    ephedra (also known as ma huang). Studies have also shown some remedies to be
    harmlessâÂÃÂ


    ƒÃƒÂ‚ƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚€"but
    not necessarily effective. These include dong quai and wild yam.

    Quoted message said:

    The latest research on using garlic to reduce blood pressure indicates the
    effect only lasts several months.

    Insurance coverage still iffy
    Though popular with the masses, alternative medicine has yet to be embraced by
    health insurers. In his 1987 testimony to the U.S. Senate, Dr. David Eisenberg
    described a patient who defined it as "therapies I have had to pay for out of
    pocket." That statement still sums up how often alternative medicine users are
    reimbursed by their insurance companies.

    It goes round and round," says Jahnke. "As an acupuncturist back in the '80s,
    probably 60 percent of my charges were reimbursed by insurance companies. But
    by the end of the '80s it was down again...And now there are what they call
    discount networks that are being contracted by insurance companies to provide,
    not reimbursed services, but discounted services." Dr. Vasant Lad is director
    of the Ayurveda Institute in Albuquerque, NM. Although he says Ayurvedic
    services are as popular as "hot cakes," insurance companies do not reimburse
    for them. John Weeks is editor and publisher of the newsletter, The Integrator
    for the Business of Alternative Medicine. He says, "From a consumer
    perspective, despite the increased interest, most payments are cash out of
    pocket." He added that there's been a trend over the past three years toward
    discounted access, in which the consumer pays a reduced rate and has the
    reassurance that the provider has met the insurance company's criteria. The
    modalities most often covered are chiropractic, massage, acupuncture and
    naturopathy.

    Power to the patient
    The real news about the growth of alternative medicine in the West is a
    shifting of responsibility from the doctor to the patient, says Jahnke. He says
    the key is "the revelation that 'Oh, you mean I can do something? And I can do
    it at home for free?'...The real breakthrough that's happening in health care
    right now is that we're realizing the client, the customer, the patient can
    also do something. "In fact, if you do something in a timely way, you might not
    need to be a patient."

  5. "Angel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    The "cut, burn and poison" mentality
    of fighting the war on disease that exists today, completely ignores
    the importance of the immune system.

    What utter drivel!!!

    It is scientific medicine that taught us all we really know about the immune
    system and even harnessed its properties in the prevention of smallpox,
    rabies, and numerous other infectious illnesses. It learnt to manipulate
    the immune system so that transplanted organs can now offer cystic fibrosis
    children and others the prospect of more normal lives. It alone
    discovered that certain illnesses are due to overactivity of the immune
    system and what kinds of treatment can help limit damage and improve
    symptoms from them. It alone has discovered methods that can induce
    patients who have immune tolerance of some kinds of cancer to develop immune
    reactions to them.

    Alternative medicine did none of this. It has merely borrowed the concept
    of the immune system to justify medical practices that otherwise would make
    no earthly sense. The immune system of alternative medicine is a mystical
    construct that can do anything and be modified by anything. It has little
    correspondence with any tangible reality, like the "toxins" that are used to
    justify a lot of useless detoxification activity.

    The rest of this piece is speculative nonsense that falls apart as soon as
    you you stop talking about sickness as a vague state of non-health, and
    realise that it consists of conditions that are as different as chalk and
    cheese in their pathophysiology, causation, and treatment strategies.

    Now people being the suggestible folk that they are, some may derive benefit
    from such activities, but to pretend that there is any underlying science to
    such speculations, and then use such frippery to criticise those who are
    using real knowledge of the immune system every day is sheer idiocy and an
    affront to all reason.

    Peter Moran

    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (Jan) wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    http://health.discovery.com/centers/althealth/medtrends/medtrends.html


    *WHY DON'T MORE DOCTORS USE ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE?
    by http://altmedangel.com

    We wonder why alternatives are not being used by more doctors.
    Although they are being used by many, too many mainstream doctors
    today become so specialized that they treat the body parts and forget
    they are treating the whole body. This is fine for surgery, emergency
    or trauma but not for perpetuating good health.

    1. One reason for this specialization is that medical schools are
    organized into organ-specific departments with no common link
    between them. Although disease usually appears as a local
    symptom, it is always related to the entire system. So you must treat
    the whole person to cure the disease, otherwise you are just treating
    the symptom. The medical school department heads ignore or deride
    this idea to defend their own orthodox concepts.

    2. It takes time for new ideas to be accepted. In the 1800s, a
    Viennese doctor suggested that his colleagues wash their hands after
    they finish working on cadavers, instead of using their unwashed
    hands to deliver babies. After 30 years of ridicule and debate this
    idea finally caught on. How many babies died waiting for this idea
    to be accepted? How many cancer, heart and AIDS patients are
    dying today for the same reason?

    Many doctors today are refusing to accept the common sense truths
    that have existed for centuries. The "cut, burn and poison" mentality
    of fighting the war on disease that exists today, completely ignores
    the importance of the immune system. In fact, it often weakens an
    immune system that is already under assault.

    The important truth that is ignored is--it is not the doctors
    job to fight the war on disease. It is the patient's own
    immune system that must win that war. The doctor's job is
    to help the immune system and provide the tools with
    which it can fight. Since this is not being done in the U.S.,
    American doctors are winning many battles but losing
    many wars. The majority of cancer patients who are given
    a "clean bill of health" die within five years. No attention is
    being paid to the immune system because this area is out of
    the realm of drugs and modern medicine.

    3. Also one of the most powerful industries in America, the
    pharmaceutical industry, provides a huge amount of funding for the
    medical schools with the intent of marketing their medicines. There
    is a great deal of pressure from this industry to keep alternative
    methods from being taught. However, due to popular demand,
    some alternatives are now offered as electives. It's a small step--
    but it's a step in the right direction. Perhaps, 30 years from now,
    we may be living in a new era when we look back with great disgust at
    the many lives unnecessarily lost at the hands of conventional
    medicine.

    4. Why don't we hear more about natural medicine from the news
    media? We are hearing more and more from the news media every
    day. But have you ever counted the pharmaceutical advertisements
    during a typical one hour program --especially if it's a movie where
    one of the characters has a specific health problem? How many
    drug ads do you think you would see during an expose of the drug
    industry or a show on the benefits of alternative medicine? The
    news media, like everyone else, is in the business of making money.
    Much of those revenues come in the form of advertising dollars.
    The pharmaceutical giants spend dearly on advertising.

    5. Young doctors leaving medical school find themselves in a
    system that rewards "rescue medicine." That is what they are
    taught. There is no reward, and there may well be scorn from
    fellow doctors, for those who take the time to prevent illness or
    correct the deficiencies that may cause it. To do so would hurt the
    pocketbook of the medical establishment. Medical insurance
    supports this view. Financial rewards follow only from sticking to
    the model of ill-health and treatment. As educated consumers, we
    need to be keenly aware of the politics of conventional medical
    care.

    6. Malpractice is another great fear for doctors. The definition of
    malpractice is not whether the treatment is good or bad for the
    patient, but rather if the practice in question is what other doctors
    in
    the given locality normally do or prescribe. Did you ever wonder
    why some therapies are only available in certain localities or why
    you may have to travel to a big city for a particular treatment?

    7. We, the public, need to change our attitudes toward the
    "practice" of medicine. It's not about "medicine" or treating bad
    health. It's about producing good health. Drugs won't get you there
    and most of the time they will set you back by suppressing a
    symptom that is pointing to the real problem. Instead of treating the
    symptom, treat the cause. The symptom will then disappear. Only
    then will you experience a true cure.

    Quoted message said:

    Alternative Medicine Goes Mainstream
    By Wynne Brown

    It now seems safe to say that alternative medicine is no longer on the


    fringe

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of health care.

    A visit to your neighborhood drug store tells the story. There, you'll


    find

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    shelves stacked with about as many brands and types of vitamins as
    over-the-counter cold remedies.

    The trend reflects the fact that Americans spend more than $30 billion


    of their

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    own money on complementary and alternative therapies each year,


    according to a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    1997 study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

    They also made 628 million visits to alternative health-care


    practitioners, 243

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    million more than visits to all primary-care physicians. Nearly half of


    those

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    visits were to chiropractors and massage therapists.

    Alternative Medicine Defined
    Dr. David Eisenberg is the author of that landmark study and director of


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Center for Alternative Medicine and Research and Education at Beth


    Israel

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Deaconess and assistant professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School,


    both

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    in Boston.

    His definition of alternative medicine is any form of therapy not taught


    widely

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    in medical schools or generally available in hospitals. The term


    "integrative"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    or "complementary" medicine refers to the weaving together of


    alternative

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    options and allopathic or conventional science-based medicine.

    The list of alternative therapies changes frequently as more practices


    are

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    proven safe and effective, but generally falls into five areas:


    traditional

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    systems (Chinese, Ayurvedic); mind-body interventions (see "The Five


    Areas of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Alternative Medicine"😉; hands-on body work; biological-based therapies
    (vitamins, herbs); and energy therapies.

    A key concept, according to Dr. David Edelberg, founder and former


    chairman of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the integrated medicine clinic, WholeHealth in Chicago, is that most


    users of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    alternative medicine don't want to give up their conventional health


    care.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "When we opened our center, we found people weren't giving up their


    family

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    doctors, they simply wanted physician-supervised alternative


    medicine....They

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    wanted a center that had two toolboxes," says Edelberg.

    What's Driving the Demand?
    Consumers, particularly those between 30 and 55, are powering the growth


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    alternative medicine. According to Eisenberg's 1997 testimony before the


    U.S.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Senate, one out of every two boomers uses non-conventional therapies.


    What

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    boomers seem to favor is the safe, noninvasive nature of alternative
    treatments. Furthermore, many alternative remedies hold the promise of


    slowing

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of the aging process.

    Mainstream (cont.)
    Another motivation is the increasing cost of health



    careÃÃ
    ƒÂ‚ƒÃÃ
    ‚ƒÃ‚‚Â
    ¢ÃÃÂ
    ‚ƒÃ‚ÂÂ
    ‚ÃÂ

    Quoted message said:


    ‚ƒÃƒÂ‚ƒÃ‚‚ÃÂÃ
    ƒÂ‚‚€"without

    Quoted message said:

    an increase

    Quoted message said:

    in the quality of the care, says Dr. Roger Jahnke, doctor of acupuncture


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    raditional Chinese medicine, chairperson of both the Qigong Department


    at the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Santa Barbara (Calif.) College of Oriental Medicine and the National


    Qigong

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Association, and author of "The Healer Within."A third driver, says


    Edelberg,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    is that conventional doctors are coming around to accepting alternative
    therapies: "More papers are appearing on alternative medicine in


    conventional

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    medicine journals; there's a National Institutes of Health division on


    it; and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    they themselves are experiencing it. We regularly have doctors coming


    into our

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    clinic for chiropractic or acupuncture or sending their patients
    over...Cardiologists are taking antioxidants and vitamins, and


    psychiatrists

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    are beginning to realize that St. John's wort actually works.

    " Choosing Safe and Effective Alternative Therapies
    Edelberg says attitudes toward alternative medicine still vary greatly


    by

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    region, but that chiropractic is relatively common as is acupuncture.


    Usually,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the more studies that have confirmed the efficacy of a particular


    therapy, the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    greater its acceptance. For instance a number of controlled studies have


    proven

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the effectiveness of acupuncture for treating a variety of conditions,


    from

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    osteoarthritis to migraine headaches. Other studies have shown positive


    results

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    in pain management and drug



    addictionÃÃÂ
    ƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚ƒÃÂÂÂ
    ƒÃƒÂƒÃ‚‚ƒÃ‚‚ÃÂÃÂ
    ‚‚¢ÃÃÂÂ
    ƒÃƒÂ‚‚ƒÃ‚ÂÃÂ
    ƒÃ‚‚‚ÃÂÂ

    Quoted message said:


    ƒÂƒÃ‚‚ÃÃ
    ‚‚€"two

    Quoted message said:

    areas where conventional medicine

    Quoted message said:

    is limited. But as with anything else, it pays to be a careful consumer


    when it

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    comes to alternative medicine. According to the Food and Drug


    Administration,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, harmful alternative


    treatments

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    include DMSO, laetrile, snake venom, coffee enemas, ozone generators,


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ephedra (also known as ma huang). Studies have also shown some remedies


    to be

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    harmlessÃÃ
    ƒÂƒÃ‚‚ƒÃ
    ƒÂ‚ÃÂÂ
    ‚¢ÃÃ
    ‚ƒÃ‚ÂÃ
    ‚‚ÃÂ

    Quoted message said:


    ƒÃƒÂ‚ƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚ÃÃÂ
    ƒÃ‚‚‚€"but

    Quoted message said:

    not necessarily effective. These include dong quai and wild yam.

    Quoted message said:

    The latest research on using garlic to reduce blood pressure indicates


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    effect only lasts several months.

    Insurance coverage still iffy
    Though popular with the masses, alternative medicine has yet to be


    embraced by

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    health insurers. In his 1987 testimony to the U.S. Senate, Dr. David


    Eisenberg

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    described a patient who defined it as "therapies I have had to pay for


    out of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    pocket." That statement still sums up how often alternative medicine


    users are

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    reimbursed by their insurance companies.

    It goes round and round," says Jahnke. "As an acupuncturist back in the


    '80s,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    probably 60 percent of my charges were reimbursed by insurance


    companies. But

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    by the end of the '80s it was down again...And now there are what they


    call

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    discount networks that are being contracted by insurance companies to


    provide,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    not reimbursed services, but discounted services." Dr. Vasant Lad is


    director

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of the Ayurveda Institute in Albuquerque, NM. Although he says Ayurvedic
    services are as popular as "hot cakes," insurance companies do not


    reimburse

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    for them. John Weeks is editor and publisher of the newsletter, The


    Integrator

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    for the Business of Alternative Medicine. He says, "From a consumer
    perspective, despite the increased interest, most payments are cash out


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    pocket." He added that there's been a trend over the past three years


    toward

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    discounted access, in which the consumer pays a reduced rate and has the
    reassurance that the provider has met the insurance company's criteria.


    The

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    modalities most often covered are chiropractic, massage, acupuncture and
    naturopathy.

    Power to the patient
    The real news about the growth of alternative medicine in the West is a
    shifting of responsibility from the doctor to the patient, says Jahnke.


    He says

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the key is "the revelation that 'Oh, you mean I can do something? And I


    can do

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    it at home for free?'...The real breakthrough that's happening in health


    care

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    right now is that we're realizing the client, the customer, the patient


    can

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    also do something. "In fact, if you do something in a timely way, you


    might not

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    need to be a patient."

  6. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Angel said:

    [email hidden] (Jan) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    http://health.discovery.com/centers/althealth/medtrends/medtrends.html


    *WHY DON'T MORE DOCTORS USE ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE?
    by http://altmedangel.com

    Quoted message said:

    1. One reason for this specialization is that medical schools are
    organized into organ-specific departments with no common link
    between them. Although disease usually appears as a local
    symptom, it is always related to the entire system. So you must treat
    the whole person to cure the disease, otherwise you are just treating
    the symptom. The medical school department heads ignore or deride
    this idea to defend their own orthodox concepts.

    It's a popular self-congratulatory myth among some alties that they,
    and only they, are treating the "whole patient," while those stupid,
    ignorant MDs are just "treating the symptom." If pressed, they'll
    also tell you, quite seriously, that the MDs just "suppress the
    symptoms," leaving the underlying cause untouched, and that the
    disease (any disease, pick your favorite) will then emerge in some
    new, more hideous form. But, luckily, there are alt healers available
    to treat the True Cause of your disease. Trouble is, depending on
    which healer you consult, your problem may be subluxations, parasites,
    colon blockage, bad chi, or any one of a zillion other contradictory
    explanations.

    Quoted message said:

    2. It takes time for new ideas to be accepted. In the 1800s, a
    Viennese doctor suggested that his colleagues wash their hands after
    they finish working on cadavers, instead of using their unwashed
    hands to deliver babies. After 30 years of ridicule and debate this
    idea finally caught on. How many babies died waiting for this idea
    to be accepted? How many cancer, heart and AIDS patients are
    dying today for the same reason?

    Good question. On the other hand, while it does take time for new
    ideas to be accepted, many new ideas turn out to be false, stupid, or
    dangerous. Therefore, rushing to accept every new idea that comes
    along is not necessarily a good move.

    Quoted message said:

    Many doctors today are refusing to accept the common sense truths
    that have existed for centuries. The "cut, burn and poison" mentality
    of fighting the war on disease that exists today, completely ignores
    the importance of the immune system. In fact, it often weakens an
    immune system that is already under assault.

    A popular alt myth. Of course, how they know that the immune system
    is weak, or that it's under assault, or even what the hell it *is*,
    remains a mystery.

    Quoted message said:

    The important truth that is ignored is--it is not the doctors
    job to fight the war on disease. It is the patient's own
    immune system that must win that war.

    Juice up your immune system and fix that broken leg overnight!

    Obviously, that's silly, but there are plenty of conditions where
    altering the immune system will do nothing helpful.

    Quoted message said:

    The majority of cancer patients who are given
    a "clean bill of health" die within five years. No attention is
    being paid to the immune system because this area is out of
    the realm of drugs and modern medicine.

    The person who wrote this is plainly ignorant of what's been going on
    in medicine lately.

    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps, 30 years from now, we may be living in a new era when we
    look back with great disgust at the many lives unnecessarily lost at
    the hands of conventional medicine.

    More likely we'll still be looking at the many lives lost through
    misplaced trust in "alternatives."

    Quoted message said:

    4. Why don't we hear more about natural medicine from the news
    media?

    I hear a lot about it. Maybe you read the wrong papers.

    There was more, but there's a limit to how much altie flag-waving
    drivel I can handle at one sitting.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  7. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Alternative Medicine Goes Mainstream
    From: [email hidden] (David Wright)
    Date: 9/19/2003 6:55 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Angel said:

    [email hidden] (Jan) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    http://health.discovery.com/centers/althealth/medtrends/medtrends.html


    *WHY DON'T MORE DOCTORS USE ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE?
    by http://altmedangel.com

    Quoted message said:

    1. One reason for this specialization is that medical schools are
    organized into organ-specific departments with no common link
    between them. Although disease usually appears as a local
    symptom, it is always related to the entire system. So you must treat
    the whole person to cure the disease, otherwise you are just treating
    the symptom. The medical school department heads ignore or deride
    this idea to defend their own orthodox concepts.

    It's a popular self-congratulatory myth among some alties that they,
    and only they, are treating the "whole patient,

    No, it is not a myth. David is a sock puppet repeating was he has heard. I
    doubt he has an ACTUAL experience.

    Quoted message said:

    while those stupid, ignorant MDs

    David appears to be angry. He added this.

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Trouble is, depending on
    which healer you consult, your problem may be subluxations, parasites,
    colon blockage, bad chi, or any one of a zillion other contradictory
    explanations.


    Trouble is David doesn't know, he is guessing, and he knows nothing of layered
    problems.

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    A popular alt myth.

    Fad expression of debunkers.

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Juice up your immune system and fix that broken leg overnight!

    More twisting and anger.

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    The person who wrote this is plainly ignorant of what's been going on
    in medicine lately.

    LOL. David knows NOT what is going on in alternative.

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps, 30 years from now, we may be living in a new era when we
    look back with great disgust at the many lives unnecessarily lost at
    the hands of conventional medicine.

    More likely we'll still be looking at the many lives lost through
    misplaced trust in "alternatives."

    Hmm. David doesn't seem to be concerned with the many that are lost EACH day
    from NEEDLESS mistakes and deaths.

    Quoted message said:

    There was more, but there's a limit to how much altie flag-waving
    drivel I can handle at one sitting.


    B I N G O!!!!!

    Cover your eyes and ears. Repeat nothing that is NOT endorsed by organized
    medicine.

    However inspite of these negative people who are sock puppets, alternative just
    keep growing.

    David is helping with these kind of posts which people are sick and tired of
    hearing.

    Jan

  8. The medical field is gradually getting smarter.
    Satn

  9. [email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Angel said:

    [email hidden] (Jan) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    http://health.discovery.com/centers/althealth/medtrends/medtrends.html


    *WHY DON'T MORE DOCTORS USE ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE?
    by http://altmedangel.com

    Quoted message said:

    1. One reason for this specialization is that medical schools are
    organized into organ-specific departments with no common link
    between them. Although disease usually appears as a local
    symptom, it is always related to the entire system. So you must treat
    the whole person to cure the disease, otherwise you are just treating
    the symptom. The medical school department heads ignore or deride
    this idea to defend their own orthodox concepts.

    It's a popular self-congratulatory myth among some alties that they,
    and only they, are treating the "whole patient," while those stupid,
    ignorant MDs are just "treating the symptom." If pressed, they'll
    also tell you, quite seriously, that the MDs just "suppress the
    symptoms," leaving the underlying cause untouched, and that the
    disease (any disease, pick your favorite) will then emerge in some
    new, more hideous form. But, luckily, there are alt healers available
    to treat the True Cause of your disease. Trouble is, depending on
    which healer you consult, your problem may be subluxations, parasites,
    colon blockage, bad chi, or any one of a zillion other contradictory
    explanations.

    Yeah right Dave. The only reason people don't take you seriously is
    you understand nothing of the nature cure method, and that's what
    people want. A cure that is natural, not a coverup that causes side
    effects and problems down the track.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    2. It takes time for new ideas to be accepted. In the 1800s, a
    Viennese doctor suggested that his colleagues wash their hands after
    they finish working on cadavers, instead of using their unwashed
    hands to deliver babies. After 30 years of ridicule and debate this
    idea finally caught on. How many babies died waiting for this idea
    to be accepted? How many cancer, heart and AIDS patients are
    dying today for the same reason?

    Good question. On the other hand, while it does take time for new
    ideas to be accepted, many new ideas turn out to be false, stupid, or
    dangerous. Therefore, rushing to accept every new idea that comes
    along is not necessarily a good move.

    Maybe people would rather take their chances with a nature cure
    method, than trust the conventional system which is governed by such
    corrupt organisations as the FDA and the AMA. If it wasn't for all the
    pushing and cajoling by the population we would already have all our
    nutritional products banned in favour of 100% pharmaceuticals.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Many doctors today are refusing to accept the common sense truths
    that have existed for centuries. The "cut, burn and poison" mentality
    of fighting the war on disease that exists today, completely ignores
    the importance of the immune system. In fact, it often weakens an
    immune system that is already under assault.

    A popular alt myth. Of course, how they know that the immune system
    is weak, or that it's under assault, or even what the hell it *is*,
    remains a mystery.

    You're having a bad day Dave. You actually admit that conventional
    medicine doesn't know something.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The important truth that is ignored is--it is not the doctors
    job to fight the war on disease. It is the patient's own
    immune system that must win that war.

    Juice up your immune system and fix that broken leg overnight!

    But calcium and vitamin d supplements might.

    Quoted message said:

    Obviously, that's silly, but there are plenty of conditions where
    altering the immune system will do nothing helpful.

    True. but there are plenty of conditions where nutritional supplements
    would help a lot, someting the pharmaceutical companies would deny.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The majority of cancer patients who are given
    a "clean bill of health" die within five years. No attention is
    being paid to the immune system because this area is out of
    the realm of drugs and modern medicine.

    Are you saying the statistics for long-term survival reveal that
    conventional "cures" aren't encouraging? I didn't know that.

    Quoted message said:

    The person who wrote this is plainly ignorant of what's been going on
    in medicine lately.

    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps, 30 years from now, we may be living in a new era when we
    look back with great disgust at the many lives unnecessarily lost at
    the hands of conventional medicine.

    More likely we will have thrown over conventional treatments and
    discovered the truth, that the current system has been manipulated to
    favour cartels only interested in the bottom-line and keeping humanity
    in a constant state of poor health in order to encourage them back for
    more treatments.

    Quoted message said:

    More likely we'll still be looking at the many lives lost through
    misplaced trust in "alternatives."

    More likely we will have resurrected some of the treatments that the
    current system has suppressed, like the Rife microscope and
    technologies.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    4. Why don't we hear more about natural medicine from the news
    media?

    I hear a lot about it. Maybe you read the wrong papers.

    The reason we don't hear more about natural medicine cures in the
    media is because it is one of the cartels involved in world
    domination. There are seven main cartels and they all work together,
    media being one of them. The overriding one is the insurance industry
    which dictates future directions.

    Cartels controlling the world
    http://www.whale.to/w/rappoport.html
    "The planet is being controlled, to an alarming extent, by elites, or,
    as I call them, cartels. There are many cartels, but seven are the
    most powerful. They evolve, they learn from one another, they both
    compete and cooperate. Unfortunately, the trend is more towards
    cooperation. These seven cartels represent the following areas:
    GOVERNMENT, MILITARY, INTELLIGENCE, ENERGY, MONEY, MEDIA, AND
    MEDICAL....

    Quoted message said:

    There was more, but there's a limit to how much altie flag-waving
    drivel I can handle at one sitting.

    Yes, you're definitely not up to your usual form.

    Carole
    http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/health.htm

  10. Here is the message referred to above by Rod, the message by Kerryn
    Phelps, Head of the Australian Medical Association (conventional
    medical system). I am surprised that she is so much in favour of
    nutritional remedies, although this is no reason to sit back and rest.

    If the pharm controlled system has its way this will be temporary and
    they'll do with her like they did with the Pharmaceutical Benefits
    System (PBS) and completely replaced it with those in favour of drugs.
    Since then, a few years ago, the PBS costs have risen by 60% and we
    now have ads on TV telling us to try to cut down on our usage to save
    money.

    (Retyped from the acrobat version)

    Carole
    http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/health.htm

    __________________________
    As an experience clinician I am well aware of the importance of
    appropriate nutritional supplementation for optimum patient care in
    both prevention and management of illness.

    Recent events have hit the complementary medicine sector like a
    sledgehammer. A lot of innocent bystanders were affected. Of great
    concern have been a number of ill-informed comments made since then
    about complementary medicine and nutritional supplementation
    generally.

    Complementary medicines and therapies that are of high quality and are
    known to work should not be dragged down by the recent scandal. There
    are now literally many thousands of scientific studies supporting the
    use of nutritional supplements such as multivitamins, folic acid,
    iron, zinc, magnesium, probiotics and a vast range of herbal
    preparations in helping to prevent disease and recover from illness.

    For example, the Journal of the American Medical Association recently
    published a study by the Harvard Medical School recommending that
    every adult should at least take a quality multivitamin to protect
    against chronic illness.
    It is important that you understand the potential benefits of
    nutritional supplements, potential side-effects, or possible
    interactions with your prescription drugs.

    I believe your best option is to seek professional advice from a
    qualified complementary healthcare practitioner such as a naturopath
    or doctor who understands nutritional therapy, so you can get a proper
    assessment and the right advice.

    Kerryn Phelps
    Head the the Australian Medical Association

  11. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Alternative Medicine Goes Mainstream
    From: [email hidden] (Carole)
    Date: 9/26/2003 4:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    A popular alt myth. Of course, how they know that the immune system

    Quoted message said:

    is weak, or that it's under assault, or

    Quoted message said:

    even what the hell it *is*,

    Quoted message said:

    remains a mystery.

    You're having a bad day Dave. You actually admit that conventional
    medicine doesn't know something.

    Read that again...David said it was an "alt myth"...."conventional Med" just
    doesn't buy into the bs that immune system needs to be or can be "restored"
    like in daveglow's junk....even to the point that Daveglow refuses to accept
    that allergies and asthma come from "overactive" immune systems,,not under

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Juice up your immune system and fix that broken leg overnight!


    Quoted message said:

    But calcium and vitamin d supplements might.

    what?? Fix a broken leg with ca and vit d??? yeah right...obviously you have
    never broken a bone...

    Quoted message said:

    More likely we will have thrown over conventional treatments and
    discovered the truth, that the curren

    hmmmm...pretty big statement...so there will never be a need for heart surgery
    on infants?? or transplants for heart,,liver,,kidney failure???

    do you intend the accupuncture and cell salts to prevent such a need??

    you are dumber than I thought

    hawki

  12. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Carole said:

    [email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Angel said:

    [email hidden] (Jan) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...
    > http://health.discovery.com/centers/althealth/medtrends/medtrends.html
    >
    *WHY DON'T MORE DOCTORS USE ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE?
    by http://altmedangel.com

    Quoted message said:

    1. One reason for this specialization is that medical schools are
    organized into organ-specific departments with no common link
    between them. Although disease usually appears as a local
    symptom, it is always related to the entire system. So you must treat
    the whole person to cure the disease, otherwise you are just treating
    the symptom. The medical school department heads ignore or deride
    this idea to defend their own orthodox concepts.

    It's a popular self-congratulatory myth among some alties that they,
    and only they, are treating the "whole patient," while those stupid,
    ignorant MDs are just "treating the symptom." If pressed, they'll
    also tell you, quite seriously, that the MDs just "suppress the
    symptoms," leaving the underlying cause untouched, and that the
    disease (any disease, pick your favorite) will then emerge in some
    new, more hideous form. But, luckily, there are alt healers available
    to treat the True Cause of your disease. Trouble is, depending on
    which healer you consult, your problem may be subluxations, parasites,
    colon blockage, bad chi, or any one of a zillion other contradictory
    explanations.

    Yeah right Dave. The only reason people don't take you seriously is
    you understand nothing of the nature cure method, and that's what
    people want. A cure that is natural, not a coverup that causes side
    effects and problems down the track.

    Actually, Carole, most people do take me seriously -- and if you
    don't, I think I can live with it. Your criticism really doesn't
    bother me, since you are quite unable to say anything specific about
    what was wrong with my comments.

    Of course people want a complete cure that doesn't come back with some
    other problems later on -- but the idea that this must be "natural" is
    just mindless reflex on your part. As long as the cure works, nobody
    cares whether it's "natural" (a question-begging term in its own
    right) or not.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    2. It takes time for new ideas to be accepted. In the 1800s, a
    Viennese doctor suggested that his colleagues wash their hands after
    they finish working on cadavers, instead of using their unwashed
    hands to deliver babies. After 30 years of ridicule and debate this
    idea finally caught on. How many babies died waiting for this idea
    to be accepted? How many cancer, heart and AIDS patients are
    dying today for the same reason?

    Good question. On the other hand, while it does take time for new
    ideas to be accepted, many new ideas turn out to be false, stupid, or
    dangerous. Therefore, rushing to accept every new idea that comes
    along is not necessarily a good move.

    Maybe people would rather take their chances with a nature cure
    method, than trust the conventional system which is governed by such
    corrupt organisations as the FDA and the AMA. If it wasn't for all the
    pushing and cajoling by the population we would already have all our
    nutritional products banned in favour of 100% pharmaceuticals.

    You know, Carole, the reason people don't take you seriously is that
    you make cretinous assertions like the foregoing. Vitamins are a real
    money-maker for the pharmaceutical companies -- why would they want
    such a mother lode to be banned? Of course, *you* know that the FDA
    and AMA are corrupt because you read it on one of those brain-dead
    conspiracy web sites you so love. But your claim that most people
    would rather take their chances with a "nature cure method" is belied
    by the facts -- most people *don't* try to do that. Whine about it
    all you want, it's still true.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Many doctors today are refusing to accept the common sense truths
    that have existed for centuries. The "cut, burn and poison" mentality
    of fighting the war on disease that exists today, completely ignores
    the importance of the immune system. In fact, it often weakens an
    immune system that is already under assault.

    A popular alt myth. Of course, how they know that the immune system
    is weak, or that it's under assault, or even what the hell it *is*,
    remains a mystery.

    You're having a bad day Dave. You actually admit that conventional
    medicine doesn't know something.

    Why wouldn't I admit it? It's obviously true. It's no skin off my
    nose, I'm not an MD. It's only nitwit alties who claim they know the
    One True Answer. (Not all AM practitioners are this silly, of course,
    but some are. Like you.)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The important truth that is ignored is--it is not the doctors
    job to fight the war on disease. It is the patient's own
    immune system that must win that war.

    Juice up your immune system and fix that broken leg overnight!

    But calcium and vitamin d supplements might.

    Hahahaha. They'll reposition the broken bones and put a pin in it if
    necessary, right? Who needs those nasty ol' MDs and their casts and
    orthopedic surgery when we have...wait for it...cell salts!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Obviously, that's silly, but there are plenty of conditions where
    altering the immune system will do nothing helpful.

    True. but there are plenty of conditions where nutritional supplements
    would help a lot, someting the pharmaceutical companies would deny.

    No, they'll just deny that your dopey cell salts will fix any ailment
    known to man. I'll deny it too. Quite rightly.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The majority of cancer patients who are given
    a "clean bill of health" die within five years. No attention is
    being paid to the immune system because this area is out of
    the realm of drugs and modern medicine.

    Are you saying the statistics for long-term survival reveal that
    conventional "cures" aren't encouraging? I didn't know that.

    You aren't quoting *me* there, genius, which you also didn't know.
    However, the long-term survival for some cancers is quite good, for
    some it's quite bad.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps, 30 years from now, we may be living in a new era when we
    look back with great disgust at the many lives unnecessarily lost at
    the hands of conventional medicine.

    More likely we will have thrown over conventional treatments and
    discovered the truth, that the current system has been manipulated to
    favour cartels only interested in the bottom-line and keeping humanity
    in a constant state of poor health in order to encourage them back for
    more treatments.

    And those doctors are so dedicated to this system that they give
    themselves poor health also, no doubt. That's what I really love
    about the conspiracy theorists -- they attribute impossibly evil
    motives to those they dislike, as though this were all one big James
    Bond film.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    More likely we'll still be looking at the many lives lost through
    misplaced trust in "alternatives."

    More likely we will have resurrected some of the treatments that the
    current system has suppressed, like the Rife microscope and
    technologies.

    There is no claim so preposterous that you won't beleive it, is there?
    The Rife microscope did not work and cannot work. You can't resolve
    items smaller than a wavelength. (I'm just tossing that remark in, I
    know you have no idea what I'm saying, even though it's true.)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    4. Why don't we hear more about natural medicine from the news
    media?

    I hear a lot about it. Maybe you read the wrong papers.

    The reason we don't hear more about natural medicine cures in the
    media is because it is one of the cartels involved in world
    domination. There are seven main cartels and they all work together,
    media being one of them. The overriding one is the insurance industry
    which dictates future directions.

    If this were really true, the likes of you would be quietly killed
    every time they stuck their heads up. Who needs the hassle?

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  13. [email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    There is no claim so preposterous that you won't beleive it, is there?
    The Rife microscope did not work and cannot work. You can't resolve
    items smaller than a wavelength. (I'm just tossing that remark in, I
    know you have no idea what I'm saying, even though it's true.)

    That's what they want you to think. They don't want people to know
    about the suppressed treatments.

    Rife's microscope technology is being used today
     Although is quite new to the scene. It's even being marketed globally
    by a company in Germany. see: http://www.grayfieldoptical.com/

    pictures taken with this microscope here:

    http://www.mikroskop-olbrich.de/Kurt_Olbrich/ERGONOM_400_3/Beispiele/Medizin/medizin.html

    So much for a microscope that doesn't work, hey Dave?

    Quoted message said:

    If this were really true, the likes of you would be quietly killed
    every time they stuck their heads up. Who needs the hassle?

    If I get killed I become a martyr. A more effective way of quieting
    the opposition is with ridicule by brainwashed dupes.

    Carole
    http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/rife.htm

  14. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Carole said:

    [email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    There is no claim so preposterous that you won't beleive it, is there?
    The Rife microscope did not work and cannot work. You can't resolve
    items smaller than a wavelength. (I'm just tossing that remark in, I
    know you have no idea what I'm saying, even though it's true.)

    That's what they want you to think. They don't want people to know
    about the suppressed treatments.

    Rife's microscope technology is being used today
    Although is quite new to the scene. It's even being marketed globally
    by a company in Germany. see: http://www.grayfieldoptical.com/

    pictures taken with this microscope here:

    http://www.mikroskop-olbrich.de/Kurt_Olbrich/ERGONOM_400_3/Beispiele/Medizin/medizin.html

    So much for a microscope that doesn't work, hey Dave?

    I should have been more precise. You can make nice pictures with a
    microscope, but neither Rife nor anyone else can get more than about
    1500x magnification. (Any further magnification will not give better
    resolution.)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    If this were really true, the likes of you would be quietly killed
    every time they stuck their heads up. Who needs the hassle?

    If I get killed I become a martyr.

    Carole, nobody would even notice you were gone, and any such killing
    would be made to look like an accident.

    Quoted message said:

    A more effective way of quieting
    the opposition is with ridicule by brainwashed dupes.

    As opposed to promotion by brainless dopes?

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  15. Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Carole said:

    [email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    There is no claim so preposterous that you won't beleive it, is there?
    The Rife microscope did not work and cannot work. You can't resolve
    items smaller than a wavelength. (I'm just tossing that remark in, I
    know you have no idea what I'm saying, even though it's true.)

    That's what they want you to think. They don't want people to know
    about the suppressed treatments.

    Rife's microscope technology is being used today
    Although is quite new to the scene. It's even being marketed globally
    by a company in Germany. see: http://www.grayfieldoptical.com/

    pictures taken with this microscope here:

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.mikroskop-olbrich.de/Kurt_Olbrich/ERGONOM_400_3/Beispiele/Med


    izin/medizin.html

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    So much for a microscope that doesn't work, hey Dave?

    I should have been more precise. You can make nice pictures with a
    microscope, but neither Rife nor anyone else can get more than about
    1500x magnification. (Any further magnification will not give better
    resolution.)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    If this were really true, the likes of you would be quietly killed
    every time they stuck their heads up. Who needs the hassle?

    If I get killed I become a martyr.

    Carole, nobody would even notice you were gone, and any such killing
    would be made to look like an accident.

    It would look exactly like another death from eating contaminated Ginseng, sold
    by Spamming Dave.

  16. "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I should have been more precise. You can make nice pictures with a
    microscope, but neither Rife nor anyone else can get more than about
    1500x magnification. (Any further magnification will not give better
    resolution.)

    http://www.grayfieldoptical.com/intro2.html

    The Ergonom microscope has been designed and built to obtain excellent high
    quality color images at magnifications greater than 10,000 times and a
    resolution of less than 100 nanometer (the best conventional optical
    microscopes achieve no better than 1600 times at around 300 nanometer)!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    If this were really true, the likes of you would be quietly killed
    every time they stuck their heads up. Who needs the hassle?

    If I get killed I become a martyr.

    Carole, nobody would even notice you were gone, and any such killing
    would be made to look like an accident.

    Or a suicide, like David Kelly in US.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    A more effective way of quieting
    the opposition is with ridicule by brainwashed dupes.

    As opposed to promotion by brainless dopes?

    You'd be ok Dave, if you did a bit of reading and research instead of just
    parroting stuff you've known for the past 10 years.

    Carole
    http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/health.htm

  17. In said:

    http://www.grayfieldoptical.com/intro2.html

    The Ergonom microscope has been designed and built to obtain excellent high
    quality color images at magnifications greater than 10,000 times and a
    resolution of less than 100 nanometer (the best conventional optical
    microscopes achieve no better than 1600 times at around 300 nanometer)!

    Explain to me again, Carole, why the semiconductor industry
    isn't buying these things like hotcakes?

    --
    | "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
    | completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
    +--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email hidden]> ----------+

  18. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Carole said:

    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I should have been more precise. You can make nice pictures with a
    microscope, but neither Rife nor anyone else can get more than about
    1500x magnification. (Any further magnification will not give better
    resolution.)

    http://www.grayfieldoptical.com/intro2.html

    The Ergonom microscope has been designed and built to obtain excellent high
    quality color images at magnifications greater than 10,000 times and a
    resolution of less than 100 nanometer (the best conventional optical
    microscopes achieve no better than 1600 times at around 300 nanometer)!

    I just looked this thing up on google and there's really not much
    information about it. It seems to be part of a mostly closed circle
    of Royal Rife-related web sites. I couldn't reach the web site in the
    URL above (my browser claimed it didn't exist). I did find another
    web site that discussed the Ergonom microscope, and claimed it had
    been used by at least a small number of university researchers from
    Europe and Japan but I couldn't find any cross-references. Has anyone
    else heard about this thing? Microscopy isn't exactly my field.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

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