Alloy/composite mix vs. all composite?

Dave Stoller said:

So what is the wisdom out there on a Alu frame with composite seat and/or chain stays vs. going all composite? I'd be coming from an all Alu Cannondale R600 which gets a bit uncomfromable 40/50 miles into a long ride.

Looking at the Airbrone blackbird and Giant OCR composite 1 or 2 and maybe a Felt F60.

Switching to carbon or ti or steel or wood won't help the comfort of the bike if it doesn't fit. you may be better off running your tires a few pounds lower.
Any frame can be built to allow a plush or a sharp ride, it's more how the material is used than what the tubing is made from. steel or Ti can be built stiff enough Cipo and Al can be built so it rides like butter.
Good Luck!
Matt

cycleguy2300 said:

Switching to carbon or ti or steel or wood won't help the comfort of the bike if it doesn't fit. you may be better off running your tires a few pounds lower.
Any frame can be built to allow a plush or a sharp ride, it's more how the material is used than what the tubing is made from. steel or Ti can be built stiff enough Cipo and Al can be built so it rides like butter.
Good Luck!
Matt

I disagree (I'm going out on a limb and taking what the poster orig. asked, already **assuming that the bike does fit properly).
..... here is my analysis....... I dont like to be anal about these "trivial" matters, but here it goes:

Both Frame Design + Materials matter- just about equaly.

I'd take a
"decently" made steel frame... over ANY aluminum frame out there(alum. is very abusive on the body...... light/non-corrosive , but thats it).

Optimally, the trick is to find a well made/ quality ALL Carbon or Ti. frame( or even Steel for that matter.... since Steel is what everything else is measured against) , that has a good design to it( larger diameter top/down tubes.... chain/seat stay beefness also is good) , ......... here is the catch----- at a GOOD / affordable price 😉

..... and yes, proper fit is the ut-most important factor over frame design/material used.

Adam-from-SLO said:

I disagree (I'm going out on a limb and taking what the poster orig. asked, already **assuming that the bike does fit properly).
..... here is my analysis....... I dont like to be anal about these "trivial" matters, but here it goes:

Both Frame Design + Materials matter- just about equaly.

I'd take a
"decently" made steel frame... over ANY aluminum frame out there(alum. is very abusive on the body...... light/non-corrosive , but thats it).

Optimally, the trick is to find a well made/ quality ALL Carbon or Ti. frame( or even Steel for that matter.... since Steel is what everything else is measured against) , that has a good design to it( larger diameter top/down tubes.... chain/seat stay beefness also is good) , ......... here is the catch----- at a GOOD / affordable price 😉

.....

What a loaad of BS. 🙄

Dave Stoller said:

So what is the wisdom out there on a Alu frame with composite seat and/or chain stays vs. going all composite? I'd be coming from an all Alu Cannondale R600 which gets a bit uncomfromable 40/50 miles into a long ride.

Looking at the Airbrone blackbird and Giant OCR composite 1 or 2 and maybe a Felt F60.

I have a steel frame with carbon seat stays and an all carbon fork. I also have an aluminum frame with alum stays (also with a full carbon fork). I really prefer the feel of the steel with the carbon. It has a nice snappy feel to it and the carbon at the front and rear absorb the road nicely. To be honest, I can tell the difference, but the all-aluminum frame feels fine too but maybe a tad less plush. Really though, the steel frame is a $2,500 frameset, vs $700 for the aluminum frame so the comparison is a bit skewed. I have never swapped the wheelsets (1 bike has a Campy 10 setup and the other is Shimano 9), but I suspect that the wheels make a bigger difference.

A Steel(front triangle)/ Carbon(rear triangle) .... can be a magnificant set up(ie. Pinerello Opera) , or a Ti.(front triangle)/ Carbon(rear triangle) can also be good (ie. Colango CT-1) ......... I'm not sure what the long-term durabliity is on the these frames(where the two different tube materails are joined together(lugged , glued, ??) ......... or if ANYONE else has this info/data(I dont want to sound like a Roboto-Robot nerd). Not so sure the bicycle manufactures are willing to release any info. related to these frames(good or bad) ...... as this info. might be read/interpreted differently by different people - and could lead to dwindling sales.

Typically, a all steel , carbon, or Ti. frame is generally used ........., and from my knowledge/experience , has better uniformity = a good thing.

Alright boudreaux , time to shoot me down again :o 😄

Adam-from-SLO said:

A Steel(front triangle)/ Carbon(rear triangle) .... can be a magnificant set up(ie. Pinerello Opera) , or a Ti.(front triangle)/ Carbon(rear triangle) can also be good (ie. Colango CT-1) ......... I'm not sure what the long-term durabliity is on the these frames(where the two different tube materails are joined together(lugged , glued, ??) ......... or if ANYONE else has this info/data(I dont want to sound like a Roboto-Robot nerd). Not so sure the bicycle manufactures are willing to release any info. related to these frames(good or bad) ...... as this info. might be read/interpreted differently by different people - and could lead to dwindling sales.

Typically, a all steel , carbon, or Ti. frame is generally used ........., and from my knowledge/experience , has better uniformity = a good thing.

Alright boudreaux , time to shoot me down again :o 😄

The pile just keeps getting bigger and stinkier.

boudreaux said:

The pile just keeps getting bigger and stinkier.

Yet you provide no helpful information of your own. So why do you bother? Is it just to have a high number of posts?

gubaguba said:

Yet you provide no helpful information of your own. So why do you bother? Is it just to have a high number of posts?

Well actually since you asked so nicely, it's a question with no frigging answer,but one that opens to door to alot if BS in case you did not notice. 🙄 It's not about either or or a mix. There are no real negatives to either one.This whole 'comfort' business is subjective anyway and doesn't boil down to 'this or that' material. Maybe the 'comfort' issue involves nothing more than running a few less PSI in the tires of the Cdale and using good bar tape and gloves.Even wheels matter, as I have some that turn the best ride into a farm wagon.

boudreaux said:

Well actually since you asked so nicely, it's a question with no frigging answer,but one that opens to door to alot if BS in case you did not notice. 🙄 It's not about either or or a mix. There are no real negatives to either one.This whole 'comfort' business is subjective anyway and doesn't boil down to 'this or that' material. Maybe the 'comfort' issue involves nothing more than running a few less PSI in the tires of the Cdale and using good bar tape and gloves.Even wheels matter, as I have some that turn the best ride into a farm wagon.

I have a set of Ksyrium Elites on my all aluminum bike and Campy Proton's on my Opera. I honestly feel that the Ksyrium's offer a more plush ride than the Proton's, but they are heavier and lack a bit of the snap of the Protons. I run the same tires on each set and I use the same pressure. I also tend to think the whole frame material question is really more of a discussion for the forums, but on the road it really doesn't amount to much. If you were comparing a first generation Cannondale or Klein to a 2005 Independent Fabrications XS, you would notice a difference, but today the differences are really subtle.

Adam-from-SLO said:

A Steel(front triangle)/ Carbon(rear triangle) .... can be a magnificant set up(ie. Pinerello Opera) , or a Ti.(front triangle)/ Carbon(rear triangle) can also be good (ie. Colango CT-1) ......... I'm not sure what the long-term durabliity is on the these frames(where the two different tube materails are joined together(lugged , glued, ??) ......... or if ANYONE else has this info/data(I dont want to sound like a Roboto-Robot nerd). Not so sure the bicycle manufactures are willing to release any info. related to these frames(good or bad) ...... as this info. might be read/interpreted differently by different people - and could lead to dwindling sales.

Typically, a all steel , carbon, or Ti. frame is generally used ........., and from my knowledge/experience , has better uniformity = a good thing.

Alright boudreaux , time to shoot me down again

the failure rate of C/Al, C/Steel, C/Ti is no greater than a single material framewith joints. If you were to a given given quality frame, a multi-material frame will be more than a single-material. What is this uniformity thing you speak of? It is not the material but how it is used, that is what gauge and what lenght the tbes are

cycleguy2300 said:

the failure rate of C/Al, C/Steel, C/Ti is no greater than a single material framewith joints. If you were to a given given quality frame, a multi-material frame will be more than a single-material. What is this uniformity thing you speak of? It is not the material but how it is used, that is what gauge and what lenght the tbes are

Where do you gather your info/data from on the "faliure rate" ?

I'm not saying ti/Carbon or steel/carbon frames are junk(or not comfortable, or expensive) , I'm just questioning the durability factor is all.

Uniformity I speak of , is one single material used(all tubes involved) ie. a Carbon Monoquoce frame- l like a Kestral, etc. , or a SLX tig/brazed on Italian frameset. No glue/adhesive/ used.

As far as running a bit lower tire pressure in your tires to increase comfort , to each his own. I do know that running lower pressure(and if you go too low) can lead to pinch flats at the rim bead- when taking corners/hitting some unlevel roadway, etc. If getting flats is worth the added comfort for a few hundred miles....... then go for it :o

Adam-from-SLO said:

As far as running a bit lower tire pressure in your tires to increase comfort , to each his own. I do know that running lower pressure(and if you go too low) can lead to pinch flats at the rim bead- when taking corners/hitting some unlevel roadway, etc. If getting flats is worth the added comfort for a few hundred miles....... then go for it :o

Obvioulsy depending on tire size and rider weight there is a psi one should not go below. in order to avoid picch flats. All too many light weight chuckleheads run 110-140 and then beotch about the ride, when the could be running 100 or so and loose nothing.

boudreaux said:

Obvioulsy depending on tire size and rider weight there is a psi one should not go below. in order to avoid picch flats. All too many light weight chuckleheads run 110-140 and then beotch about the ride, when the could be running 100 or so and loose nothing.

I weigh 155 , and I typically run recommended weight on the rear tire(say 110-120) , but up front I typically run a little bit lower(say 100) . I'd rather have some added shock absorption up front(since there is very little rider weight up front/ very low chance of a pinch flat) .

Maybe I should have specified before if I do run lower pressure in my tires, or not. However, having a nice comfortable/proper fit frame + material(Ti/Carbon/steel) + running a bit lower on the recommended tire pressure(mainly in the front tire) yeilds the MOST shock absorption value 😉 🙂

Adam-from-SLO said:

I weigh 155 , and I typically run recommended weight on the rear tire(say 110-120) , but up front I typically run a little bit lower(say 100) . I'd rather have some added shock absorption up front(since there is very little rider weight up front/ very low chance of a pinch flat) .

Maybe I should have specified before if I do run lower pressure in my tires, or not. However, having a nice comfortable/proper fit frame + material(Ti/Carbon/steel) + running a bit lower on the recommended tire pressure(mainly in the front tire) yeilds the MOST shock absorption value

Running a tube-less at 25 psi on a dual shocked downhill frame will give the smoothest ride. And again I say the material doesn't change the ride. is a multi-material frame pretty? Yes. Is it better than a equal quality alloy frame? NO!
Oh, and carbon does not absorb road vibe.
Lest ye be deceived...
Matt