General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

ALLHAT statins negative benefit suppressed

Started by Zee · · Last activity · 12 posts · 548 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
16 July 2004
Last activity
19 July 2004
Original author
Zee
Posts
12
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
548
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–12 of 12
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. http://www.ahrp.org/COI/COI.html

    Statin-Cholesterol Guidelines--Industry influenced?

    "Of special note is that this study {ALLHAT} tested statins in
    patients with higher risk of heart disease--because such patients had
    generally shown a greater benefit from statins than do lower risk
    patients--yet the outcome was negative."

    Wed, 14 Jul 2004

    Scientific journal editors are scrambling about how to react to bad
    publicity emanating from public disclosure that the scientific reports
    they have published are likely to be biased because the authors' had
    financial ties to the companies whose drugs / devices they report on
    favorably-and that information was withheld from readers.

    A newly released survey by the Center for Science for the Public
    Interest (CSPI) looked at articles that appeared during a 3 month
    period--between December 2003 and February 2004--in four premier
    scientific journals--the New England Journal of Medicine, the Journal
    of the American Medical Association, Environmental Health Perspectives
    and Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology--finding that even in these
    journals, 8% of authors failed to disclose conflicts of interest.

    Among the reports cited by CSPI whose authors failed to disclose their
    financial conflicts: "Frank D. Kolodgie and Renu Virmani, two
    scientists at the U.S. Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, failed to
    disclose their consulting relationships with 20 companies in the
    heart-disease treatment field in a December article in the New England
    Journal of Medicine about the formation of plaque in coronary
    arteries." [Ref. 1]

    Inasmuch as biased science affects public health policies and misleads
    treating physicians who may be unwittingly doing harm to patients, is
    it not the responsibility of science journals to ensure that they
    provide accurate, full information to readers?

    Here are two modest recommendations: Journal editors should make an
    effort to publish an update, listing articles whose authors failed to
    disclose their financial ties to drug companies.

    Furthermore, it is essential for journals to retract clinical trial
    reports that were based on only partial--favorable-data. The results
    are false and misleading, and may be leading physicians to prescribe
    medications whose risks outweigh any benefits. [References 2]

    The same day that CSPI's survey was reported in the press, the
    journal, Circulation, published a report announcing new federally
    endorsed recommendations for the treatment of heart disease--more
    accurately, recommendations for the increased use of cholesterol
    lowering drugs. The recommendations were made by a panel convened by
    the National Cholesterol Education Program on the supposition that
    they will prevent heart disease. The recommendations will dramatically
    increase the use of statins to control cholesterol levels.

    Statins sales for the current 26 million Americans taking them reach
    $15 billion. The new recommendations will increase the number of users
    to 36 million and increase sales to $20.8 billion.

    The Wall Street Journal reports today, that the FDA is about to
    approve Vytorin, a drug, "which packs two cholesterol fighters into
    one pill. It combines Zetia, a cholesterol-blocker from
    Schering-Plough Corp., with Merck & Co.'s Zocor, the
    second-most-prescribed brand in the class of powerful drugs known as
    statins: "Just as heart patients and their doctors are grappling with
    updated government guidelines for dramatically lowering cholesterol, a
    new drug is about to be approved that is sure to deepen the confusion
    over choosing proper treatment." [Ref 3]

    Since the NIH recommendations clearly provide statin drug
    manufacturers with a mega-billion dollar profit enhancement-and the
    rationale is controversial--isn't a bit of skepticism in order?

    For starters, why has no one questioned the absence of financial
    disclosure by the panel members that recommend the new guidelines?
    Have editors of the journal Circulation not heard about disclosure
    requirements? [Ref. 4]

    Why have reporters failed to ask about possible financial conflicts of
    interest that may have a bearing on these recommendations? [Ref. 5]

    Why has no one in the mainstream media seen fit to inform the public
    that there are scientists around the world who are skeptical about the
    intensive statin-cholesterol push, calling it "massive hype" by
    "Rent-A-Quote" Doctors? [Ref. 6]

    Doesn't good science depend upon open debate?

    The new recommendations were immediately endorsed by the National
    Heart, Lung and Blood Institute (NHLBI); the American Heart
    Association (AHA); and the American College of Cardiology (ACC). But
    these institutions have a checkered record of endorsing expensive
    treatments that were no better than cheaper ones, and potentially made
    matters worse.

    For example, the ALLHAT study conducted by NHLBI ("antihypertensive
    and lipid lowering to prevent heart attack trial"😉 tested the
    effectiveness of both antihypertensive and lipid treatments. It was
    published in JAMA (2002) and is cited in the journal, Circulation. The
    ALLHAT study was critically reviewed in the British Medical Journal
    (2003), noting that in BOTH arms of this government sponsored study
    neither expensive treatment endorsed by the AHA and ACC demonstrated
    better results than cheaper treatments which proved safer. [Ref 7]

    Indeed, a cheap diuretic proved safer and more effective against heart
    attack than either expensive calcium channel blockers and ACE
    inhibitors or lipid lowering statins which "showed no statistically
    significant reduction in cardiovascular disease event rates or in
    deaths."

    Of special note is that this study tested statins in patients with
    higher risk of heart disease--because such patients had generally
    shown a greater benefit from statins than do lower risk patients--yet
    the outcome was negative.

    However, the negative ALLHAT study findings were never publicized and
    the PR firm handling Pfizer's marketing of the expensive drug, of
    Cardura, didn't challenge the findings because "The reality is no one
    promotes a diuretic. So you've got one study that says yes, you should
    [use a diuretic], then starting the day after, you've got a $10bn
    [sic] industry. . . and 55 promotional events . . . for an ACE
    inhibitor..." [Ref 7]

    Incredibly, none of the journalists in the major media--including Gina
    Kolata (NYT), Rob Stein (Wash Post), Ron Winslow (WSJ), among
    others--saw fit to even mention the serious risks associated with
    statins. These include: a potential increase in liver enzymes, muscle
    aches, weakness, immune system suppression, an increase in cancer
    risk, and a serious degenerative muscle tissue condition called
    rhabdomyolysis-and the depletion of Q10, the co-enzyme for the
    production of cellular energy.

    What is Q10? Dr. Peter Langsjoen, an expert cardiologist who has done
    original research into Q10, says this co-enzyme "is responsible for
    over 80 per cent of energy and if you knock the level of this
    essential nutrient down, nothing works as well. Those tissues and
    organs that use a lot of energy are the first to be affected. The
    heart, for example, uses a huge amount of juice and if you cut it back
    with the use of a statin, what you start having first and foremost is
    lack of energy -you start getting sluggish. So the clinical
    consequences come about gradually and this weakening - fatigue,
    getting winded when you're walking up the stairs.It's extremely
    widespread. If you look for it, you'll see it in just about every
    single new patient who has been on a statin." [Ref. 8]

    Science journalists seem to have very short memories about universally
    recommended preventive treatments that turned out to increase harm-the
    hormone replacement therapy debacle seems to have taught them nothing.

    The 2003 BMJ report uncovered evidence of Pfizer financial
    largesse-not surprising, the beneficiaries were the endorsers of
    Pfizer's high priced cholesterol lowering drugs. Even the NHLBI
    investigators walked away from their negative study findings,
    insisting: "we know [statins] work." Is this science or faith? The
    NHLBI scientists went on to raise questions about their own
    methodology.

    But Dr. Marcia Angell noted that questions about study results should
    be "hypothesis generating" and cannot be assumed as fact until they
    are tested. She suggested that what's true of the ALLHAT drug study
    "may be true of an awful lot of drugs. A lot of newer drugs may not
    only not be better-they may be worse." The problem arises, Dr. Angell
    said, because "most drug companies don't want a head to head [study].
    And the FDA allows trials to run that are rigged where a drug is
    tested against placebo or a drug of the same class that is
    inadequately dosed, or they look at the wrong group of people or the
    wrong endpoints so their drug looks good." [Ref. 7]

    Why, then, have healthcare journalists who reported about statin-sales
    boosting recommendations fail to raise questions about the risks of
    statins, or to inform readers how much financial support / grants the
    manufacturers of statins provide to the three institutions that
    endorsed the recommendations?

    Must we always have to wait for the British to publish reports that
    raise serious questions about healthcare promotions? Must we wait for
    the BMJ to investigate unacknowledged financial incentives that may
    have persuaded those who promote the increased use of statins and
    other expensive new drugs?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    References:

    1. THE WALL STREET JOURNAL. Research Conflicts Go Undisclosed Study
    Says Medical Journals Don't Effectively Monitor Financial Ties of
    Authors. By ROBERT TOMSHO, July 13, 2004; Page D3
    http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB108967337655561782,00.html

    2. British Medical Journal. Efficacy and safety of antidepressants for
    children and Adolescents. Jon N Jureidini, et al. online free at:
    http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7444/879?

    See: The Lancet. Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors in childhood
    depression: systematic review of published versus unpublished data.
    Craig J Whittington, et al. Volume 363, Number 9418, April 24, 2004,
    online free at: http://www.thelancet.com/journal/journal.isa

    3. THE WALL STREET JOURNAL. New Option for Fighting Cholesterol FDA Is
    Expected to Approve Pill That Mixes Two Drugs; What the Lower Target
    Means By SCOTT HENSLEY , July 14, 2004; Page D1

    4. NCEPAT Panel: Scott M. Gundy, James I Cleeman, Noel C Mertz, H.
    Bryan Brewer, Luther T. Clark, Donald B. Hunninghage, Richard C.
    Pasternak, Sidney C. Smith, Neil J. Stone,

    5. The New York Times. Experts Set a Lower Low for Cholesterol Levels
    By GINA KOLATA July 13, 2004, A-1.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/13/health/13heart.html?hp=&pagewanted=print&position=

    WASHINGTON POST. Lower Cholesterol Targets Urged By Rob Stein
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44702-2004Jul12.html

    THE WALL STREET JOURNAL. New, Lower Goal Is Set for Cholesterol
    High-Risk Patients Are Urged to Consider Getting Their LDL Below 70 as
    Opposed to 100 By RON WINSLOW July 13, 2004; Page D1

    6. See articles and reports by members of The International Network of
    Cholesterol Skeptics: "The International Network of Cholesterol
    Skeptics (THINCS) is a steadily growing group of scientists,
    physicians, other academicians and science writers from various
    countries." http://www.thincs.org/Malcolm.htm

    7. British Medical Journal. Spin doctors doctors soft pedal data on
    antihypertensives. By Jeanne Lenzer, BMJ 2003;326:170 ( 18 January )
    http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/326/7381/170/DC1

    8. See: Nicholas Regush interview Dr. Peter Langsjoen, a pioneering
    researcher and cardiologist who has brought considerable attention to
    a mighty nutrient called "Co-Enzyme Q10" about the hazards of statins.
    Langsjoen has been involved in some of the key original work showing
    the link between Q10 depletion and heart disease. His concerns and
    warnings about statin use come at a time when statin therapy is being
    very aggressively promoted by the drug industry
    http://redflagsweekly.com/RFD_Interviews/index.html

    Contact: Vera Hassner Sharav
    Tel: 212-595-8974

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-07-12-journal-conflicts_x.htm

    Journals, authors cited for conflicts of interest
    By Robert Davis, USA TODAY

    Some leading scientific and medical journals do not always enforce
    their conflict of interest policies with the authors of published
    studies, according to a new report. The Center for Science in the
    Public Interest found that in some cases the journals did not disclose
    contributing authors' financial conflicts of interest even though the
    journals' own rules require such disclosures.

    "There is a consistent pattern here," says Merrill Goozner, CSPI
    project director. "This is an unacceptable level, and the journals
    need to take action."

    The findings come amid growing concern over the influence that private
    industry has on scientific research. For example, journal editors,
    including those responsible for some of the content that was studied
    by CSPI, are considering requiring drug companies to register all
    clinical trials in a database for more accountability.

    The study examined 163 articles in The New England Journal of
    Medicine, TheJournal of the American Medical Association (JAMA),
    Environmental Health Perspectives, and Toxicology and Applied
    Pharmacology and found that the authors of 13 articles had relevant
    conflicts of interest that were not reported to readers.

    The most obvious conflicts were reported, such as when the research
    was funded by a company that employs the author. But the CSPI
    researchers found hidden conflicts in what Goozner calls "the
    margins," in which there was no direct link, but the researcher stood
    to benefit from the same industry.

    One author of a study on heart disease, for instance, failed to reveal
    relationships with 20 companies that made cardiovascular drugs or
    devices. "This is important for the general public and the scientific
    community because full disclosure gives you another piece of
    information for evaluating these studies," Goozner says. "If you hide
    the fact that there is a conflict of interest with the researcher,
    then you are deceiving people."

  2. (Zee) said:

    http://www.ahrp.org/COI/COI.html

    Statin-Cholesterol Guidelines--Industry influenced?

    Quoted message said:

    A newly released survey by the Center for Science for the Public
    Interest (CSPI) looked at articles that appeared during a 3 month
    period--between December 2003 and February 2004--in four premier
    scientific journals--the New England Journal of Medicine, the Journal
    of the American Medical Association, Environmental Health Perspectives
    and Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology--finding that even in these
    journals, 8% of authors failed to disclose conflicts of interest.

    *Only* 8 percent?

    Quoted message said:

    Indeed, a cheap diuretic proved safer and more effective against heart
    attack than either expensive calcium channel blockers and ACE
    inhibitors or lipid lowering statins which "showed no statistically
    significant reduction in cardiovascular disease event rates or in
    deaths."

    From the ALLHAT Website:
    http://allhat.sph.uth.tmc.edu/

    "Because of the superiority of thiazide-type diuretics in preventing
    one or more major forms of cardiovascular disease and their lower
    cost, they should be the drugs of choice for first-step
    antihypertensive therapy."

    Quoted message said:

    Of special note is that this study tested statins in patients with
    higher risk of heart disease--because such patients had generally
    shown a greater benefit from statins than do lower risk patients--yet
    the outcome was negative.

    Quoted message said:

    However, the negative ALLHAT study findings were never publicized...

    Huh?

    Again, from the ALLHAT Website:

    "Accordingly, ALLHAT found only a small decrease in cardiovascular
    disease event rates (non-significant) for pravastatin compared with
    usual care and no difference in mortality."

    Folks, it's just more horseshit from fresh horses.

    L.

  3. [email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    (Zee) said:

    http://www.ahrp.org/COI/COI.html

    Statin-Cholesterol Guidelines--Industry influenced?

    Quoted message said:

    A newly released survey by the Center for Science for the Public
    Interest (CSPI) looked at articles that appeared during a 3 month
    period--between December 2003 and February 2004--in four premier
    scientific journals--the New England Journal of Medicine, the Journal
    of the American Medical Association, Environmental Health Perspectives
    and Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology--finding that even in these
    journals, 8% of authors failed to disclose conflicts of interest.

    *Only* 8 percent?

    Those journals. That period of time.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Indeed, a cheap diuretic proved safer and more effective against heart
    attack than either expensive calcium channel blockers and ACE
    inhibitors or lipid lowering statins which "showed no statistically
    significant reduction in cardiovascular disease event rates or in
    deaths."

    From the ALLHAT Website:
    http://allhat.sph.uth.tmc.edu/

    "Because of the superiority of thiazide-type diuretics in preventing
    one or more major forms of cardiovascular disease and their lower
    cost, they should be the drugs of choice for first-step
    antihypertensive therapy."

    Quoted message said:

    Of special note is that this study tested statins in patients with
    higher risk of heart disease--because such patients had generally
    shown a greater benefit from statins than do lower risk patients--yet
    the outcome was negative.

    Quoted message said:

    However, the negative ALLHAT study findings were never publicized...

    Huh?

    Again, from the ALLHAT Website:

    "Accordingly, ALLHAT found only a small decrease in cardiovascular
    disease event rates (non-significant) for pravastatin compared with
    usual care and no difference in mortality."

    Of course I cannot know what the writer intended. But I don't believe
    the press releases pushing ALLHAT mentioned the negative information
    at the time the study was published.

    Al Lohse and Sharon Hope (sci.med.cardiology) pointed out at ALLHAT
    release that the study abstract, which was widely circulated, differed
    in information given from the full study, which was not. I believe
    Sharon Hope showed where the abstract left out pertinent and negative
    info, and focused on the positive.

    Thank goodness the ALLHAT authors rectified that terrible ommission.

    Quoted message said:

    Folks, it's just more horseshit from fresh horses.

    L.

    Zee

  4. "Robert" <[email hidden]> pí¹e v diskusním pøíspìvku
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Zee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.ahrp.org/COI/COI.html

    Statin-Cholesterol Guidelines--Industry influenced?

    "Of special note is that this study {ALLHAT} tested statins in
    patients with higher risk of heart disease--because such patients


    had

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    generally shown a greater benefit from statins than do lower risk
    patients--yet the outcome was negative."

    Your track record everytime one looks into the real story is very


    poor.

    Quoted message said:

    News flash. The news that anti pharm people don't want you to know.


    Q10 can

    Quoted message said:

    be bought over the counter at any store.
    What the reporter didn't even mention this on this unbiased report.


    You can

    Quoted message said:

    buy it at any drug store and yes most pharmacist tell you to buy some


    with

    Quoted message said:

    statin use.
    Zee never told you that. It can help prevent a lot of the side


    reactions by

    Quoted message said:

    the statins. She mentions about all the side effects and doesn't even
    mention taking Q10. SHE REALLY CARES ABOUT PEOPLE.

    Q10 is old news here. Why she should repeat this all time again?

    I would rather like to see your comment to "outcome was negative" and
    how this negative outcome was presented in media. This is the real
    problem.

    Mirek

  5. "Mirek Fidler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Robert" <[email hidden]> pí¹e v diskusním pøíspìvku
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Zee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.ahrp.org/COI/COI.html

    Statin-Cholesterol Guidelines--Industry influenced?

    "Of special note is that this study {ALLHAT} tested statins in
    patients with higher risk of heart disease--because such patients


    had

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    generally shown a greater benefit from statins than do lower risk
    patients--yet the outcome was negative."

    Your track record everytime one looks into the real story is very


    poor.

    Quoted message said:

    News flash. The news that anti pharm people don't want you to know.


    Q10 can

    Quoted message said:

    be bought over the counter at any store.
    What the reporter didn't even mention this on this unbiased report.


    You can

    Quoted message said:

    buy it at any drug store and yes most pharmacist tell you to buy some


    with

    Quoted message said:

    statin use.
    Zee never told you that. It can help prevent a lot of the side


    reactions by

    Quoted message said:

    the statins. She mentions about all the side effects and doesn't even
    mention taking Q10. SHE REALLY CARES ABOUT PEOPLE.

    Q10 is old news here. Why she should repeat this all time again?

    I would rather like to see your comment to "outcome was negative" and
    how this negative outcome was presented in media. This is the real
    problem.

    Mirek


    You want me to comment about a study that was never published and therefore
    never seen by anyone. Well let me guess as to what was in those
    studies???????????
    The anti drug group has done many, many studies showing the benefits of many
    drugs including statins that have been suppressed. Those positive studies
    were never published. They were never published because of their anti-drug
    agenda. If a researcher performs a research that is anti-drug in nature then
    that research is unreliable.
    They are biased. You set the standard and you lie in that bed.
    As to the media presentation, I prefer my studies released by a movie star
    such as that redhead Nicole.

  6. In article said:

    "Robert" <[email hidden]> pe v diskusnm pspvku
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Zee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.ahrp.org/COI/COI.html

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Statin-Cholesterol Guidelines--Industry influenced?

    ..................

    Quoted message said:

    Q10 is old news here. Why she should repeat this all time again?

    Quoted message said:

    I would rather like to see your comment to "outcome was negative" and
    how this negative outcome was presented in media. This is the real
    problem.

    How many doctors recommend Q10? I have been taking it for
    quite some time.

    BTW, the medical name for Q10 is "ubiquitin"; it is used in
    a large number of biochemical reactions.

    --
    This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
    are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
    Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
    [email hidden] Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558

  7. My doctor didn't know what CoQ10 was. I query every person I know who
    is taking statins, and they have no knowledge of CoQ10. So either
    they forgot, or their doctor never mentioned it.

    My guess is that few doctors know that statins and other drugs deplete
    Q10, and the consequences. They don't read the research articles like
    we do, they are simply informed by the pharma peddlers.

    I've been taking Q10 for over 3 years, with excellent results in
    stamina. I had a bad experience with statins (Lipitor, Zocor), and
    found that stopping the statin and taking Q10 restored the muscles.

    GT

    "Herman Rubin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Mirek Fidler


    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Robert" <[email hidden]> pe v diskusnm pspvku
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Zee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > http://www.ahrp.org/COI/COI.html

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Statin-Cholesterol Guidelines--Industry influenced?

    ..................

    Quoted message said:

    Q10 is old news here. Why she should repeat this all time again?

    Quoted message said:

    I would rather like to see your comment to "outcome was negative"


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    how this negative outcome was presented in media. This is the real
    problem.

    How many doctors recommend Q10? I have been taking it for
    quite some time.

    BTW, the medical name for Q10 is "ubiquitin"; it is used in
    a large number of biochemical reactions.

    --
    This address is for information only. I do not claim that these


    views

    Quoted message said:

    are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
    Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
    [email hidden] Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX:


    (765)494-0558

  8. 18 Jul 2004 16:18:27 -0500 in article <[email hidden]>

    (Herman Rubin) said:
    In article said:

    "Robert" <[email hidden]> pe v diskusnm pspvku
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Zee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > http://www.ahrp.org/COI/COI.html

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Statin-Cholesterol Guidelines--Industry influenced?

    ..................

    Quoted message said:

    Q10 is old news here. Why she should repeat this all time again?

    Quoted message said:

    I would rather like to see your comment to "outcome was negative" and
    how this negative outcome was presented in media. This is the real
    problem.

    How many doctors recommend Q10? I have been taking it for
    quite some time.

    BTW, the medical name for Q10 is "ubiquitin"; it is used in
    a large number of biochemical reactions.


    I've always thought that Coenzyme Q10 is ubiquinone a.k.a. ubidecarone.
    Here's what I found about ubiquitin:

    <URL:http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Ubiquitin>

    ubiquinone:

    <URL:http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Ubiquinone>

    and ubidecarenone

    <URL:http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Ubidecarenone>

    --
    Matti Narkia

  9. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:21:39 +0300 in article
    <[email hidden]> Matti Narkia

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    I've always thought that Coenzyme Q10 is ubiquinone a.k.a. ubidecarone.


    -----------
    should be ubidecarenone

    as was correctly mentioned later in the message.

    --
    Matti Narkia

  10. "GT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    My doctor didn't know what CoQ10 was. I query every person I know who
    is taking statins, and they have no knowledge of CoQ10. So either
    they forgot, or their doctor never mentioned it.

    My guess is that few doctors know that statins and other drugs deplete
    Q10, and the consequences. They don't read the research articles like
    we do, they are simply informed by the pharma peddlers.

    I've been taking Q10 for over 3 years, with excellent results in
    stamina. I had a bad experience with statins (Lipitor, Zocor), and
    found that stopping the statin and taking Q10 restored the muscles.

    GT


    Those are good points which is why I ask why does someone who wants to help
    people avoid statin toxicity not mention Q10 in the same sentence. She never
    states once that if you take statins you should be taking Q10 also.
    She loves to quote a study by Dr. Phillips "who selectively" chose 4
    patients to do extensive muscle studies on. She protests a lot of using
    selective cherry picking but doesn't question that selective study. They
    never chose random 4 patients on statin therapy. Dr Phillips refuses to
    accept drug industry money. Guess what? He found evidence in 4 patients and
    then states "some" people can suffer myopathy. Question. Were those 4 people
    taking Q10 and why weren't they random among all people taking statins.
    Answer the goal of the study was to find that statins can affect the muscle.
    Great, rhabdo has been there awhile. Dr Phillips knows well that his own
    study is biased which is why he doesn't have the balls to state that
    patients shouldn't be taking statins. He is not receiving money from the
    drug companies so what does he have to be afraid of in stating so?

  11. Quoted message said:

    Those are good points which is why I ask why does someone who wants to


    help

    Quoted message said:

    people avoid statin toxicity not mention Q10 in the same sentence. She


    never

    Quoted message said:

    states once that if you take statins you should be taking Q10 also.

    Well, you are relatively new here. Q10 depletion is long known issue
    here, quoted by Zee thousands times.

    Mirek

  12. Quoted message said:

    BTW, the medical name for Q10 is "ubiquitin"; it is used in
    a large number of biochemical reactions.

    Coenzyme Q10 is ubiquinone. Ubiquitin is a protein, and has nothing to do
    with Q10.

    "Herman Rubin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Mirek Fidler <[email hidden]>


    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Robert" <[email hidden]> pe v diskusnm pspvku
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Zee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > http://www.ahrp.org/COI/COI.html

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Statin-Cholesterol Guidelines--Industry influenced?

    ..................

    Quoted message said:

    Q10 is old news here. Why she should repeat this all time again?

    Quoted message said:

    I would rather like to see your comment to "outcome was negative" and
    how this negative outcome was presented in media. This is the real
    problem.

    How many doctors recommend Q10? I have been taking it for
    quite some time.

    --
    This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
    are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
    Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
    [email hidden] Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.