All-rounder frame wanted

JennyB said:

I'm looking for a new steel frame with old-fashioned touring geometry.
It will be for all-year use, sometimes heavily loaded and sometimes on
rough tracks, but generally neither, and not both at the same time.
Enough clearance for 700x35c and mudguards, and with horizontal
dropouts as well as a gear hanger so I can use it with a hub gear,
fixed, or with derailleurs.

I was looking at the On One Pompino, but that's a dedicated fixie now
with 120mm rear spacing. Does anyone else in the UK make something
suitable in the same price range?

http://www.surlybikes.com/crosscheck_comp.html

/s

JennyB said:

I'm looking for a new steel frame with old-fashioned touring geometry.
It will be for all-year use, sometimes heavily loaded and sometimes on
rough tracks, but generally neither, and not both at the same time.
Enough clearance for 700x35c and mudguards, and with horizontal
dropouts as well as a gear hanger so I can use it with a hub gear,
fixed, or with derailleurs.

I was looking at the On One Pompino, but that's a dedicated fixie now
with 120mm rear spacing. Does anyone else in the UK make something
suitable in the same price range?

Why? Do you have that much time and energy to change the parts
hanging on your bike? You really plan to redo the drivetrain from
derailleurs to gear hub to single speed and back again? Wow. Do you
have that much money to buy all of those spare parts to make these
changes? And if you collected them at swap meets and auctions, then
you have too much time and should use it to ride your bike.

If you just decide a year round all weather commuting bike is what you
want, and get rid of the horizontal dropout requirement, and are
willing to go with derailleurs, then any touring bike should work
fine. Or an audax bike. Bob Jackson or Mercian or Dave Yates are
some British builders.

Scott Gordo said:

JennyB said:

I'm looking for a new steel frame with old-fashioned touring geometry.
It will be for all-year use, sometimes heavily loaded and sometimes on
rough tracks, but generally neither, and not both at the same time.
Enough clearance for 700x35c and mudguards, and with horizontal
dropouts as well as a gear hanger so I can use it with a hub gear,
fixed, or with derailleurs.

I was looking at the On One Pompino, but that's a dedicated fixie now
with 120mm rear spacing. Does anyone else in the UK make something
suitable in the same price range?

http://www.surlybikes.com/crosscheck_comp.html

http://www.surlybikes.com/longhaul.html

Might be a better bet.

email hidden said:

Why? Do you have that much time and energy to change the parts
hanging on your bike? You really plan to redo the drivetrain from
derailleurs to gear hub to single speed and back again? Wow. Do you
have that much money to buy all of those spare parts to make these
changes? And if you collected them at swap meets and auctions, then
you have too much time and should use it to ride your bike.

No, I only change twice in the year, when the days get longer and then
again when the clocks go back. I still like a fixed to just hop on and
ride in the winter when I get the chance, but I'm old enough now not
to try doing long rides on it. Maybe when I'm really fat and old I'll
have saved enough for a Rohloff and I'll put that on and leave it
there.

russellseaton said:

JennyB said:

I'm looking for a new steel frame with old-fashioned touring geometry.
It will be for all-year use, sometimes heavily loaded and sometimes on
rough tracks, but generally neither, and not both at the same time.
Enough clearance for 700x35c and mudguards, and with horizontal
dropouts as well as a gear hanger so I can use it with a hub gear,
fixed, or with derailleurs.

Why? Do you have that much time and energy to change the parts
hanging on your bike? You really plan to redo the drivetrain from
derailleurs to gear hub to single speed and back again? Wow.

Have you never changed a bike from one speed to something else, or
vice versa? I have, many times. One of my current rides has had
seven speeds, eight speeds, and nine speeds with derailleurs, and
seven speeds with a hub gear. Another one has been a single speed, a
seven speed, a five speed, an electric bike with two separate one-
speed drivetrains, and then a single speed again.

Now that I reflect on it, all but one or two of my transportational
bikes have had more than one configuration of drivetrain on them.
Others have switched between coaster brakes and hub gears. When
switching around like that, it really helps to have horizontal dropout
slots. And when not switching parts around, they still don't hurt
anything.

For all we know, you could be some sort of unimaginative weirdo who
never messes with his bikes to change them around. I guess that's the
implication of your question. What's wrong with you? Are you
disabled or something?

Chalo

Chalo said:

russellseaton said:

JennyB wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a new steel frame with old-fashioned touring geometry.
It will be for all-year use, sometimes heavily loaded and sometimes on
rough tracks, but generally neither, and not both at the same time.
Enough clearance for 700x35c and mudguards, and with horizontal
dropouts as well as a gear hanger so I can use it with a hub gear,
fixed, or with derailleurs.

Quoted message said:

Why? Do you have that much time and energy to change the parts
hanging on your bike? You really plan to redo the drivetrain from
derailleurs to gear hub to single speed and back again? Wow.

Have you never changed a bike from one speed to something else, or
vice versa? I have, many times. One of my current rides has had
seven speeds, eight speeds, and nine speeds with derailleurs, and
seven speeds with a hub gear. Another one has been a single speed, a
seven speed, a five speed, an electric bike with two separate one-
speed drivetrains, and then a single speed again.

Now that I reflect on it, all but one or two of my transportational
bikes have had more than one configuration of drivetrain on them.
Others have switched between coaster brakes and hub gears. When
switching around like that, it really helps to have horizontal dropout
slots. And when not switching parts around, they still don't hurt
anything.

For all we know, you could be some sort of unimaginative weirdo who
never messes with his bikes to change them around. I guess that's the
implication of your question. What's wrong with you? Are you
disabled or something?

Chalo

I spend too much of my time riding my bikes to spend changing entire
drivetrains. I have a fixed gear bike. I bought a cheap old frame
with horizontal dropouts and made it a fixed gear bike. It will
always be a fixed gear bike. I have derailleur bikes. They will
always be derailleur bikes. Since they started as 9 or 10 speed, I
doubt I will ever change them to other numbers of gears. I've never
been one of these jack of all trades bike people. One bike does not
do everything well. Get a good bike for its purpose and enjoy it. If
you have a different purpose in mind, get a bike best suited for that
purpose and enjoy it.

As for unimaginative, you could say that. When I see all of the
professional internet bicyclists on this forum yapping on and on about
mixing up Campagnolo, Shimano, 7-8-9-10 speed cassettes and freewheels
with downtube and bar end and Ergo/STI and those Kelly take off thumb
lever things and JTEK shiftmates and routing the wires over and under
different bolts, I laugh. People love to go to endless lengths to add
complications to their lives and then yap about it. I use Campagnolo
on my bikes. Only Campagnolo. No adaptors needed. No
complications. It just works the way its supposed to work.

Quoted message said:

As for unimaginative, you could say that. When I see all of the
professional internet bicyclists on this forum yapping on and on about
mixing up Campagnolo, Shimano, 7-8-9-10 speed cassettes and freewheels
with downtube and bar end and Ergo/STI and those Kelly take off thumb
lever things and JTEK shiftmates and routing the wires over and under
different bolts, I laugh. People love to go to endless lengths to add
complications to their lives and then yap about it. I use Campagnolo
on my bikes. Only Campagnolo. No adaptors needed. No
complications. It just works the way its supposed to work.

It will get 'worse' now Sram is in the game. In some time people will
ask how to shift a 8 speed Shimano cassette with ten speed Ergo's and a
Sram RD...or vice versa

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)

On May 8, 4:02 pm, "[email hidden]"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snipped for clarity>

Quoted message said:

those Kelly take off thumb
lever things

Let's be clear, Russell. Kelly Take-offs allow one to mount dead-
simple, ultra reliable down tube levers (or, just the business end of
bar-end levers) in a location close to the brake hoods, a nice touch
for those who want their shifters near their brakes, but don't want
the limitations imposed by STI/Ergo/SRAM. Nothing to do with thumb
shifters, AFAICT. Far from being a "complication", Take-offs allow one
to switch from, say, Campy to Shimano RDs with the mere change of the
RH lever (with the appropriate wheel, of course). Or, to switch
between 7/8/9/10 speed rears with *either* the mere change of the RH
lever *or* (when available, as in Shimano levers) a switch to friction
mode. And, the appropriate change of rear cassette/freewheel.

Sounds a lot simpler to me than worrying about getting the correct
brifter or "converting" a brifter to the wanted configuration. Or
rebuilding those brifters _when_ (not if) they fail. Or tossing the
non-rebuildable ones.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I use Campagnolo
on my bikes. Only Campagnolo. No adaptors needed. No
complications. It just works the way its supposed to work

Campagnolo xx-speed only on a given bike. No simple options, no simple
choices.

JennyB said:

I'm looking for a new steel frame with old-fashioned touring geometry.
It will be for all-year use, sometimes heavily loaded and sometimes on
rough tracks, but generally neither, and not both at the same time.
Enough clearance for 700x35c and mudguards, and with horizontal
dropouts as well as a gear hanger so I can use it with a hub gear,
fixed, or with derailleurs.

I was looking at the On One Pompino, but that's a dedicated fixie now
with 120mm rear spacing. Does anyone else in the UK make something
suitable in the same price range?

JennyB said:

I still like a fixed to just hop on and
ride in the winter when I get the chance, but I'm old enough now not
to try doing long rides on it. Maybe when I'm really fat and old I'll
have saved enough for a Rohloff and I'll put that on and leave it
there.

If you look at the dedicated Rohloff bicycles at SJScycles.co.uk in
their Thorn bicycle range, you'll see that to mount a Rohloff it's
nice to have special fittings and a bicyle designed for it. Not sure
that when you're old and fat you'll really want one anyway: after all,
they are less efficient. Derailleurs do work really well, after all.

As for the fixed part: have you considered getting a cheap used road
frame to use as dedicated? Would make life easier, for minimal cost.

If you still want to combine all your requirements into one, you
really need something custom, which if you live in the UK is the
logical choice anyway, given the vast selection of experienced
builders at low cost. The SJS Audax classic is quite nice and they can
tell you a lot about Rohloffs, would fit your spec to a T, except it
only takes up to 28 with mudgaurds. You need either cantilevers or
extralong sidepulls or long centrpulls to use 35 with mudgaurds
anyway. 32 with mudgaurds is easier with conventional equipment and
works well.

I suggest Mercian, SJS, or Bob Jackson. Prices are reasonable,
experience is vast, work is very good, and they can do anything you
want. I also suggest staying fit and thin and forgetting about the
Rohloff, and getting something used as a dedicated fixed wheeler.

Have fun on the new bicycle.

JennyB said:

I'm looking for a new steel frame with old-fashioned touring geometry.
It will be for all-year use, sometimes heavily loaded and sometimes on
rough tracks, but generally neither, and not both at the same time.
Enough clearance for 700x35c and mudguards, and with horizontal
dropouts as well as a gear hanger so I can use it with a hub gear,
fixed, or with derailleurs.

I was looking at the On One Pompino, but that's a dedicated fixie now
with 120mm rear spacing. Does anyone else in the UK make something
suitable in the same price range?

Salsa claims that their new Casseroll frame does it all:

http://tinyurl.com/2l9rp8

They say road geometry suitable for touring. Not sure I buy that, but ...

I couldn't find a UK listing for the Casseroll, but it looks like Salsa
has a distributor in the UK.

I've been looking off and on for a 700C frame for a Rohloff hub and the
closest thing I could find to what I want is this Canadian frame that uses
an eccentric bottom bracket instead of horizontal dropouts:

http://steelwoolbicycles.ca/frames.php

I suppose it would be quite expensive to have it shipped from Canada
though.

Paul Hewitt sells his cheviot frames on their own. Should fit your
requirements.

SW

"JennyB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a new steel frame with old-fashioned touring geometry.
It will be for all-year use, sometimes heavily loaded and sometimes on
rough tracks, but generally neither, and not both at the same time.
Enough clearance for 700x35c and mudguards, and with horizontal
dropouts as well as a gear hanger so I can use it with a hub gear,
fixed, or with derailleurs.

I was looking at the On One Pompino, but that's a dedicated fixie now
with 120mm rear spacing. Does anyone else in the UK make something
suitable in the same price range?

Ah, missed the horizontal dropout requirement. Sorry.

SW

"Steve Watkin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul Hewitt sells his cheviot frames on their own. Should fit your
requirements.

SW

"JennyB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a new steel frame with old-fashioned touring geometry.
It will be for all-year use, sometimes heavily loaded and sometimes on
rough tracks, but generally neither, and not both at the same time.
Enough clearance for 700x35c and mudguards, and with horizontal
dropouts as well as a gear hanger so I can use it with a hub gear,
fixed, or with derailleurs.

I was looking at the On One Pompino, but that's a dedicated fixie now
with 120mm rear spacing. Does anyone else in the UK make something
suitable in the same price range?

Quoted message said:

Chalo said:

russellseaton said:

JennyB wrote:

Quoted message said:

> I'm looking for a new steel frame with old-fashioned touring geometry.
> It will be for all-year use, sometimes heavily loaded and sometimes on
> rough tracks, but generally neither, and not both at the same time.
> Enough clearance for 700x35c and mudguards, and with horizontal
> dropouts as well as a gear hanger so I can use it with a hub gear,
> fixed, or with derailleurs.

Quoted message said:

Why? Do you have that much time and energy to change the parts
hanging on your bike? You really plan to redo the drivetrain from
derailleurs to gear hub to single speed and back again? Wow.

Have you never changed a bike from one speed to something else, or
vice versa? I have, many times. One of my current rides has had
seven speeds, eight speeds, and nine speeds with derailleurs, and
seven speeds with a hub gear. Another one has been a single speed, a
seven speed, a five speed, an electric bike with two separate one-
speed drivetrains, and then a single speed again.

Now that I reflect on it, all but one or two of my transportational
bikes have had more than one configuration of drivetrain on them.
Others have switched between coaster brakes and hub gears. When
switching around like that, it really helps to have horizontal dropout
slots. And when not switching parts around, they still don't hurt
anything.

For all we know, you could be some sort of unimaginative weirdo who
never messes with his bikes to change them around. I guess that's the
implication of your question. What's wrong with you? Are you
disabled or something?

Chalo

I spend too much of my time riding my bikes to spend changing entire
drivetrains. I have a fixed gear bike. I bought a cheap old frame
with horizontal dropouts and made it a fixed gear bike. It will
always be a fixed gear bike. I have derailleur bikes. They will
always be derailleur bikes. Since they started as 9 or 10 speed, I
doubt I will ever change them to other numbers of gears. I've never
been one of these jack of all trades bike people. One bike does not
do everything well. Get a good bike for its purpose and enjoy it. If
you have a different purpose in mind, get a bike best suited for that
purpose and enjoy it.

The OP may be an apartment dweller who doesn't have room for a stable of
bikes. Or doesn't have the funds.

Quoted message said:

As for unimaginative, you could say that. When I see all of the
professional internet bicyclists on this forum yapping on and on about
mixing up Campagnolo, Shimano, 7-8-9-10 speed cassettes and freewheels
with downtube and bar end and Ergo/STI and those Kelly take off thumb
lever things and JTEK shiftmates and routing the wires over and under
different bolts, I laugh. People love to go to endless lengths to add
complications to their lives and then yap about it. I use Campagnolo
on my bikes. Only Campagnolo. No adaptors needed. No
complications. It just works the way its supposed to work.

Quoted message said:

JennyB said:

I'm looking for a new steel frame with old-fashioned touring geometry.
It will be for all-year use, sometimes heavily loaded and sometimes on
rough tracks, but generally neither, and not both at the same time.
Enough clearance for 700x35c and mudguards, and with horizontal
dropouts as well as a gear hanger so I can use it with a hub gear,
fixed, or with derailleurs.

I was looking at the On One Pompino, but that's a dedicated fixie now
with 120mm rear spacing. Does anyone else in the UK make something
suitable in the same price range?

Gary Young said:

Salsa claims that their new Casseroll frame does it all:
http://tinyurl.com/2l9rp8
They say road geometry suitable for touring. Not sure I buy that, but ...
I couldn't find a UK listing for the Casseroll, but it looks like Salsa
has a distributor in the UK.
I've been looking off and on for a 700C frame for a Rohloff hub and the
closest thing I could find to what I want is this Canadian frame that uses
an eccentric bottom bracket instead of horizontal dropouts:
http://steelwoolbicycles.ca/frames.php
I suppose it would be quite expensive to have it shipped from Canada
though.

Gunnar also offers an eccentric BB frameset and has a custom program if
you want to tweak their standard specs/geometry.

And they actually make the stuff with their name on it. Rare feature today.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Gary Young said:

Quoted message said:

Chalo said:

russellseaton wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> JennyB wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > I'm looking for a new steel frame with old-fashioned touring geometry.
> > It will be for all-year use, sometimes heavily loaded and sometimes on
> > rough tracks, but generally neither, and not both at the same time.
> > Enough clearance for 700x35c and mudguards, and with horizontal
> > dropouts as well as a gear hanger so I can use it with a hub gear,
> > fixed, or with derailleurs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Why? Do you have that much time and energy to change the parts
> hanging on your bike? You really plan to redo the drivetrain from
> derailleurs to gear hub to single speed and back again? Wow.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Have you never changed a bike from one speed to something else, or
vice versa? I have, many times. One of my current rides has had
seven speeds, eight speeds, and nine speeds with derailleurs, and
seven speeds with a hub gear. Another one has been a single speed, a
seven speed, a five speed, an electric bike with two separate one-
speed drivetrains, and then a single speed again.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now that I reflect on it, all but one or two of my transportational
bikes have had more than one configuration of drivetrain on them.
Others have switched between coaster brakes and hub gears. When
switching around like that, it really helps to have horizontal dropout
slots. And when not switching parts around, they still don't hurt
anything.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For all we know, you could be some sort of unimaginative weirdo who
never messes with his bikes to change them around. I guess that's the
implication of your question. What's wrong with you? Are you
disabled or something?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Chalo

Quoted message said:

I spend too much of my time riding my bikes to spend changing entire
drivetrains. I have a fixed gear bike. I bought a cheap old frame
with horizontal dropouts and made it a fixed gear bike. It will
always be a fixed gear bike. I have derailleur bikes. They will
always be derailleur bikes. Since they started as 9 or 10 speed, I
doubt I will ever change them to other numbers of gears. I've never
been one of these jack of all trades bike people. One bike does not
do everything well. Get a good bike for its purpose and enjoy it. If
you have a different purpose in mind, get a bike best suited for that
purpose and enjoy it.

The OP may be an apartment dweller who doesn't have room for a stable of
bikes. Or doesn't have the funds.

But an apartment dweller would have the space for a workshop area to
do all of this drivetrain switching? And the funds to have complete
sets of drivetrains to switch back and forth on the bike? Stable of
bikes? One derailleur bike and one fixed/single speed bike. A little
harder to store than one bike, but not much harder to store two
bikes. And fixed gear bikes can be put together real cheap. Old used
junk frame and fork. Old freewheel wheel with a single cog and
spacers.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As for unimaginative, you could say that. When I see all of the
professional internet bicyclists on this forum yapping on and on about
mixing up Campagnolo, Shimano, 7-8-9-10 speed cassettes and freewheels
with downtube and bar end and Ergo/STI and those Kelly take off thumb
lever things and JTEK shiftmates and routing the wires over and under
different bolts, I laugh. People love to go to endless lengths to add
complications to their lives and then yap about it. I use Campagnolo
on my bikes. Only Campagnolo. No adaptors needed. No
complications. It just works the way its supposed to work.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ozark Bicycle said:

On May 8, 4:02 pm, "[email hidden]"

<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snipped for clarity>

Quoted message said:

those Kelly take off thumb
lever things

Let's be clear, Russell. Kelly Take-offs allow one to mount dead-
simple, ultra reliable down tube levers (or, just the business end of
bar-end levers) in a location close to the brake hoods, a nice touch
for those who want their shifters near their brakes, but don't want
the limitations imposed by STI/Ergo/SRAM. Nothing to do with thumb
shifters, AFAICT. Far from being a "complication", Take-offs allow one
to switch from, say, Campy to Shimano RDs with the mere change of the
RH lever (with the appropriate wheel, of course). Or, to switch
between 7/8/9/10 speed rears with *either* the mere change of the RH
lever *or* (when available, as in Shimano levers) a switch to friction
mode. And, the appropriate change of rear cassette/freewheel.

Sounds a lot simpler to me than worrying about getting the correct
brifter or "converting" a brifter to the wanted configuration. Or
rebuilding those brifters _when_ (not if) they fail. Or tossing the
non-rebuildable ones.

What do you mean getting the correct brifter? I started with 9 speed
Ergo, Campagnolo rear derailleur, Campagnolo rear hub wheel,
Campagnolo 9 speed cassette. Pretty darn simple. They all work. No
getting the right this or that. Or an adaptor.

As for rebuildable Ergo, yes they are. When I crashed and broke the
shifter body, I was able to buy a new part and rebuild it. A friend
wants to change his 8 speed Ergo to 9 speed. Ordered the parts from
Mr. Chisholm's shop. Every now and then you have to do maintenance on
the Ergo by replacing the G springs. Every year I overhaul the hubs
on my bikes and regrease them. Used to annually overhaul my cup and
cone and ball bearing bottom bracket before these cartridge bearing
things became ubiquitous. I overhaul my headset each year too. I do
not own any cartridge bearing wheels but I hear they are prevalent now
days. And headsets have gone that way too. I suppose all of you new
bicyclists who bought bikes because of Lance don't realize maintenance
on bicycles used to be a common thing.

Quoted message said:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I use Campagnolo
on my bikes. Only Campagnolo. No adaptors needed. No
complications. It just works the way its supposed to work

Campagnolo xx-speed only on a given bike. No simple options, no simple
choices.

If I start with a Campagnolo 9 speed bike why would I want to change
it? I have 7 speed bar end shifters on a touring bike. Thought about
giong to 9 speed but as you say, no simple options. Have to buy a new
9 speed bar end shifter or 9 speed STI. Have to buy a new freehub
body to change my wheel from 7 speed to 9 speed. Have to redish my
rear wheel. Have to buy a new 9 speed cassette. Have to buy a new 9
speed chain. You speak as if changing the number of cogs on a bike is
simple! Have you ever done it? In the above scenario even if I
switched to friction only, all that would eliminate is buying the new
bar end shifter.

email hidden said:

On May 8, 4:31 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

On May 8, 4:02 pm, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

<snipped for clarity>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

those Kelly take off thumb
lever things

Quoted message said:

Let's be clear, Russell. Kelly Take-offs allow one to mount dead-
simple, ultra reliable down tube levers (or, just the business end of
bar-end levers) in a location close to the brake hoods, a nice touch
for those who want their shifters near their brakes, but don't want
the limitations imposed by STI/Ergo/SRAM. Nothing to do with thumb
shifters, AFAICT. Far from being a "complication", Take-offs allow one
to switch from, say, Campy to Shimano RDs with the mere change of the
RH lever (with the appropriate wheel, of course). Or, to switch
between 7/8/9/10 speed rears with *either* the mere change of the RH
lever *or* (when available, as in Shimano levers) a switch to friction
mode. And, the appropriate change of rear cassette/freewheel.

Quoted message said:

Sounds a lot simpler to me than worrying about getting the correct
brifter or "converting" a brifter to the wanted configuration. Or
rebuilding those brifters _when_ (not if) they fail. Or tossing the
non-rebuildable ones.

What do you mean getting the correct brifter?

Getting the "correct brifter" is an issue for many who want to go
from, say, 8 to 9 or 9 to 10.

Quoted message said:

I started with 9 speed
Ergo, Campagnolo rear derailleur, Campagnolo rear hub wheel,
Campagnolo 9 speed cassette. Pretty darn simple. They all work. No
getting the right this or that. Or an adaptor.

But, if you want to "upgrade" to Campy 10, the Ergos need to be
"converted" from 9 to 10. and, it's a one way street, no more using
those 9sp cassettes.

Quoted message said:

As for rebuildable Ergo, yes they are.

Yeah, pretty much routine maintenence (i.e., they will fail).

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I suppose all of you new
bicyclists who bought bikes because of Lance don't realize maintenance
on bicycles used to be a common thing.

You haven't been riding bike or working on bikes as long as I have,
Russell. Can the [censored].

<snip>

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

On May 8, 4:02 pm, "[email hidden]"

<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I use Campagnolo
on my bikes. Only Campagnolo. No adaptors needed. No
complications. It just works the way its supposed to work

Campagnolo xx-speed only on a given bike. No simple options, no simple
choices.

If I start with a Campagnolo 9 speed bike why would I want to change
it? I have 7 speed bar end shifters on a touring bike. Thought about
giong to 9 speed but as you say, no simple options. Have to buy a new
9 speed bar end shifter or 9 speed STI. Have to buy a new freehub
body to change my wheel from 7 speed to 9 speed. Have to redish my
rear wheel. Have to buy a new 9 speed cassette. Have to buy a new 9
speed chain. You speak as if changing the number of cogs on a bike is
simple! Have you ever done it? In the above scenario even if I
switched to friction only, all that would eliminate is buying the new
bar end shifter.

I've done it. Multiple times. To frames so old they had to be respaced,
which I have also done, multiple times.

I usually take the shortcut of getting a new rear wheel, since that's
often inexpensive, and I don't think any local shop is likely to have a
freehub in stock. That said, freehubs are easy to change, and the tool
required for wheel respacing is a spoke wrench.

I'm no fan of gear changing for change's sake: my commuter still has the
6x3 drivetrain it was born with (or is it five? I'm not going to check).
You probably have good reasons for staying with 7, and I wouldn't
discourage you from doing so.

But your argument against changing to 9 did remind me of this comic
strip...

WARNING: very bad language, hooker jokes, Olive Garden:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/08/25

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Russell Seato wrote

Quoted message said:

People love to go to endless lengths to add
complications to their lives and then yap about it. I use Campagnolo
on my bikes. Only Campagnolo. No adaptors needed. No
complications. It just works the way its supposed to work.

So you find that Euclid mixes interchangeably with Valentino and
Record 10 speed? Maybe I should use Campy too, then.

To be frank, I often change drivetrains on my bikes because while
parts are common, frames that work for me are not. If I waste a
dished wheel, I might change to something dishless (which could be a
gearhub). If I want more gearing range, I might have to update from
whatever I'm using to get it. Maybe I migrate all the parts off one
frame and onto another so I can use bigger tires-- then I figure out
what to do with the old frame. Broken and worn-out parts offer an
opportunity to try something new.

Not everybody faces the same issues. I know that I get more occasions
to experiment than most cyclists do. But no matter what your
inclinations, I can't see a downside to having frames that can be
built up any way you like. Things like vertical dropouts and 130mm
spaced carbon stays get in the way of that.

Chalo