Alan Coren NOW

"wafflycat" <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On The Daily Politics show on BBC 2. Spouting the usual nonsense about
dangerous cyclists terrifying the poor drivers as the dangerous cyclists
jump red lights and thump on cars.... How we should all be insured &
identified - presumably so we can be deported...

Here's the email I sent to the show...,

<snipped>

I couldn't have put it better myself. I find it depressing when someone I
enjoy listening to on the radio suddenly reveals themselves to have an
anti-cycling prejudice.

Tom.

"wafflycat" <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On The Daily Politics show on BBC 2. Spouting the usual nonsense about
dangerous cyclists terrifying the poor drivers as the dangerous cyclists
jump red lights and thump on cars....

I feel this needs to be said. One of our mechanics arrived in work this
morning gobsmacked.
Riding along the A49, just after a blind corner, was a cyclist. Nothing
wrong with that you may think, but he was riding along the centre white
lines of a 60mph road.
When the said mechanic pointed out to him that he's going to get himself
killed, he complained about it and continued. No doubt the same rider would
be quick to blame speeding motorists for the inevitable accident.

Now, obviously not everybody behaves like that but it does show there IS two
sides to every coin. Remember that before mounting your high horse.

"Treefrog" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"wafflycat" <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On The Daily Politics show on BBC 2. Spouting the usual nonsense about
dangerous cyclists terrifying the poor drivers as the dangerous cyclists
jump red lights and thump on cars....

I feel this needs to be said. One of our mechanics arrived in work this
morning gobsmacked.
Riding along the A49, just after a blind corner, was a cyclist. Nothing
wrong with that you may think, but he was riding along the centre white
lines of a 60mph road.

Said cyclist is a candidate for a Darwin Award. he is stupid and there is no
excuse for him. Perhaps you missed the bit in my original post where I said
"Of
course cyclists are *not* exempt from law..."

It is, however, a fact that it isn't cyclists killing thousands and injuring
tens of thousands more each year on our roads. It is a fact it's mostly
motorists killing other motorists and non-motorists.

Quoted message said:

When the said mechanic pointed out to him that he's going to get himself
killed, he complained about it and continued. No doubt the same rider
would
be quick to blame speeding motorists for the inevitable accident.

Then he'd be an [censored] of the highest order. Again - I refer you to my
quoted statemet from my original post - I do not condone law-breaking by
cyclists. What I do, however, is not condone law-breaking by motorists (of
which I am one, as well as being a cyclist), as the consequences to innocent
third parties of the effect of bad driving, which are far worse than the
effects of bad cycling...

Quoted message said:

Now, obviously not everybody behaves like that but it does show there IS
two
sides to every coin. Remember that before mounting your high horse.

Please point out in my original post where I have condoned law-breaking by
cyclists, when I specifically wrote that they are not exempt from the law.
Perhaps I'm not the one needing to get down off a high-horse ;-)

Cheers, helen s

Treefrog said:

I feel this needs to be said. One of our mechanics arrived in work this
morning gobsmacked.
Riding along the A49, just after a blind corner, was a cyclist. Nothing
wrong with that you may think, but he was riding along the centre white
lines of a 60mph road.
When the said mechanic pointed out to him that he's going to get himself
killed, he complained about it and continued. No doubt the same rider would
be quick to blame speeding motorists for the inevitable accident.

Now, obviously not everybody behaves like that but it does show there IS two
sides to every coin. Remember that before mounting your high horse.

And last week as we drove round a blind bend of a "60mph road"[1] there
was an oncoming car on our side of the road. No doubt...

How many fish can you get with that coin?

Colin

I've been berated several times by drivers for cycling just to the left
of the centre white line. When I pointed out that I was turning right,
as evidenced by my right arm sticking out, they insisted the correct
place to cycle all the time was the left gutter and I was lucky not to
be killed. Perhaps the cyclist in question was preparing to turn? Maybe
the "riding along the centre line" was an exaggeration for riding near
to it? Just a guess, equally likely he was just some nutter.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No doubt the same rider would be quick to blame speeding motorists for the inevitable accident.

Well, anyone (speeding motorist or not) who goes round a blind bend and
cannot stop for an obstruction IS to blame for an accident, which is by
no means inevitable.

"iakobski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been berated several times by drivers for cycling just to the left
of the centre white line. When I pointed out that I was turning right,
as evidenced by my right arm sticking out, they insisted the correct
place to cycle all the time was the left gutter and I was lucky not to
be killed. Perhaps the cyclist in question was preparing to turn? Maybe
the "riding along the centre line" was an exaggeration for riding near
to it? Just a guess, equally likely he was just some nutter.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No doubt the same rider would be quick to blame speeding motorists for
the inevitable accident.

Well, anyone (speeding motorist or not) who goes round a blind bend and
cannot stop for an obstruction IS to blame for an accident, which is by
no means inevitable.

You have an entirely valid point. I assumed (silly me, shouldn't do that)
that in Treefrog's post, the cyclist was just well... cycling in the middle
of the road for no valid reason. If the cyclist was making a RH turn, he had
every right to be a correctly positioned cyclist towards the centre of the
road... In which case, it may be that Treefrog's mechanic friend may have
been travelling a tad too fast in his car, whilst going round a bend. And
again, perhaps it's Treefrog that is, err... barking up the wrong tree so to
speak.

Cheers, helen s

Treefrog said:

I feel this needs to be said. One of our mechanics arrived in work this
morning gobsmacked.
Riding along the A49, just after a blind corner, was a cyclist. Nothing
wrong with that you may think, but he was riding along the centre white
lines of a 60mph road.

If you believe that account. Or was he just not cowering in the
gutter?

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

wafflycat said:

On The Daily Politics show on BBC 2. Spouting the usual nonsense about
dangerous cyclists terrifying the poor drivers as the dangerous cyclists
jump red lights and thump on cars.... How we should all be insured &
identified - presumably so we can be deported...

I think it was David Hansen who recently used the term "bullies" in this
newsgroup.
I understand where he is coming from.

Yes, it's easy to imagine the story progressing from

"I came round this bend and there was a cyclist in the middle of the
_lane_"

to

"I came round this bend and there was a cyclist in the middle of the
_road_"

The perhaps (my poetic licence)

"I came round this bend and there was a suicidal cyclist doing a slalom
between the catseyes, and he didn't even have both hands on the
handlebars, was pointing at something over to the right, and what's
more it was right next to a junction! Bloody fool!"

"wafflycat" <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Please point out in my original post where I have condoned law-breaking by
cyclists, when I specifically wrote that they are not exempt from the law.
Perhaps I'm not the one needing to get down off a high-horse ;-)

My apologies. My reply was directed at those who do mount their high horse
over car vs bike. My response was inspired by the first sentence of your
post alone, and too be fair should have been an entirely seperate thread.

By the way, I'm not on the cars side, I'm just sat on the fence as a cyclist
who likes to drive for pleasure (I ride to work whenever I can).

"wafflycat" <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"iakobski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been berated several times by drivers for cycling just to the left
of the centre white line. When I pointed out that I was turning right,
as evidenced by my right arm sticking out, they insisted the correct
place to cycle all the time was the left gutter and I was lucky not to
be killed. Perhaps the cyclist in question was preparing to turn? Maybe
the "riding along the centre line" was an exaggeration for riding near
to it? Just a guess, equally likely he was just some nutter.

Quoted message said:

> No doubt the same rider would be quick to blame speeding motorists for
> the inevitable accident.

Well, anyone (speeding motorist or not) who goes round a blind bend and
cannot stop for an obstruction IS to blame for an accident, which is by
no means inevitable.

You have an entirely valid point. I assumed (silly me, shouldn't do that)
that in Treefrog's post, the cyclist was just well... cycling in the

middle

Quoted message said:

of the road for no valid reason. If the cyclist was making a RH turn, he

had

Quoted message said:

every right to be a correctly positioned cyclist towards the centre of the
road... In which case, it may be that Treefrog's mechanic friend may have
been travelling a tad too fast in his car, whilst going round a bend. And
again, perhaps it's Treefrog that is, err... barking up the wrong tree so

to

Quoted message said:

speak.

Yes indeed, perhaps I should have written a more careful description of the
scene. Suffice to say, unless he was planning on taking his road bike cross
country riding, there is no right turn.

And also, allow me to point out that my mechanic friend doesn't drive. He is
100% cyclist.

"iakobski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yes, it's easy to imagine the story progressing from

"I came round this bend and there was a cyclist in the middle of the
_lane_"

to

"I came round this bend and there was a cyclist in the middle of the
_road_"

The perhaps (my poetic licence)

"I came round this bend and there was a suicidal cyclist doing a slalom
between the catseyes, and he didn't even have both hands on the
handlebars, was pointing at something over to the right, and what's
more it was right next to a junction! Bloody fool!"

Ok, I see my attempts to perhaps add some more balance to peoples opinions
has failed.

As I mentioned in my previous posts, my friend doesn't drive, he just rides
(hardly ever walks either), he was overtaking, sorry, undertaking the said
cyclist in the middle of a road that has no right turn.

Now, and this bit is in no way anybodies fault BUT the drivers, but I have
seen with my own eyes one person die and 2 people very serious injured (i.e.
lost legs) on this 200m stretch of road. The point is, he was strongly
advised to move himself, but (and this is a presumption) his own self
rightious "I'm a roadie and I am allowed here" attitude was very lucky not
to get him killed.

Now, I'll really throw a spanner in the works, I admit I occasionaly drive
above the speed limit and on such corners (although not above 60mph) I would
be going pretty quick, HOWEVER, I would make sure I was well away from the
inside of the road to avoid hitting any cyclists. If there was one in the
middle of the bloody road, he/she is an utter idiot. Whether it be right or
wrong to speed (although I wouldn't be legally speeding) is obsolutely not
the point (so don't comment on it), the point is as cyclist WE KNOW that
drivers are [frequently] inconsiderate, so, just ride defensively and you'll
live longer. Of course, you're welcome to argue the toss over right of way
with the front of a bus.

At Fri, 1 Jul 2005 18:12:03 +0100, message
<[email hidden]> was posted by "Treefrog"
<[email hidden]>, including some, all or none of the
following:

Quoted message said:

Ok, I see my attempts to perhaps add some more balance to peoples opinions
has failed.

In what way? I have been told I should not be "in the middle of the
road" when riding in the secondary riding position[1]; exaggeration of
how far to the right a cyclist is, is not uncommon.

Quoted message said:

As I mentioned in my previous posts, my friend doesn't drive, he just rides
(hardly ever walks either), he was overtaking, sorry, undertaking the said
cyclist in the middle of a road that has no right turn.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Usenet, where propagation delay and
offline newsreaders warp the space-time continuum :-)

Quoted message said:

Now, and this bit is in no way anybodies fault BUT the drivers, but I have
seen with my own eyes one person die and 2 people very serious injured (i.e.
lost legs) on this 200m stretch of road. The point is, he was strongly
advised to move himself, but (and this is a presumption) his own self
rightious "I'm a roadie and I am allowed here" attitude was very lucky not
to get him killed.

Surely that's a matter for his judgment? Are you familiar with
Cyclecraft?

Quoted message said:

Now, I'll really throw a spanner in the works, I admit I occasionaly drive
above the speed limit and on such corners (although not above 60mph) I would
be going pretty quick, HOWEVER, I would make sure I was well away from the
inside of the road to avoid hitting any cyclists.

What about horse riders? Broken-down tractors? Fallen trees?
Pedestrians crossing? Overtaking cars coming the other way?

[1] And in the primary position, when the driver in question was
unhappy with me not letting her try to overtake in a width restriction

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:58:51 +0100, "wafflycat"

waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk said:

On The Daily Politics show on BBC 2. Spouting the usual nonsense about
dangerous cyclists terrifying the poor drivers as the dangerous cyclists
jump red lights and thump on cars.... How we should all be insured &
identified - presumably so we can be deported...

Here's the email I sent to the show...,

"Can someone please inform Mr Coren that compulsory insurance for motorists
doesn't seem to stop too many of them going through red lights, breaking the
speed limits, killing some 3000 people annually on our roads and injuring
tens of thousands more. So why does he think it would for cyclists? Of
course cyclists are *not* exempt from law, but the damage caused by cyclists
breaking the law pales into insignificance compared with the damage done by
law-breaking motorists - perhaps that's why more police emphasis is placed
on motor vehicle crime?

As for insurance, many cyclists already do have third party insurance via
household contents insurance (it's a fairly standard item covered) and many
more have it via membership of organisations such as British Cycling and the
CTC (Cyclists' Touring Club), where is comes free with membership. If
cyclists were such a huge risk to other road users, does Mr Coren think this
insurance would be provided free as at present?

As a keen pedestrian, motorist and cyclist, I invite Mr Coren to come out on
a cycle ride with this law-abiding cyclist who does stop at red lights,
doesn't cycle on the footpath, and I think I can show him just who provides
the real danger on UK roads...

Mr Coren is a most excellent writer and wit, but alas his grasp of matters
cycling is not up to the standard of his other talents."

Good letter! Well said 🙂

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

"Treefrog" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Now, I'll really throw a spanner in the works, I admit I occasionaly
drive above the speed limit and on such corners (although not above
60mph) I would be going pretty quick, HOWEVER, I would make sure I was
well away from the inside of the road to avoid hitting any cyclists.

If the road curves left, you driving away from the edge is correct since it
extends your sightline slightly. Similarly, if the rider is also out, they
enter your sightline earlier.

Quoted message said:

If there was one in the
<....>,
so, just ride defensively and you'll<...>

Worth considering then.