Airlines & a bike

I understand that Virgin count the bike as 5kg whatever so am thinking
of using them in future to Europe.

Also United have a flat rate (US$50???) for bikes

I thought cattle class was 20kg?

I came back last time with filthy tyres (long story), young guy at
quarantine was very pleasant, took them away and cleaned them, all with
a smile.

Jack Russell

Andrew Price said:

Just back from seeing the daughter studying in Italy (oh, and
co-incidentally riding with mates for 2 weeks in Tuscany, as you do) -
things seem to have changed with the airlines flying to Europe. My
observations -

1. Used to be able to get an understanding that sporting equipment
(skis, bike etc) were in addition to usually allowed baggage
limits - that's now history - had a forthright exchange of views
with the Cathay check in person in Sydney and got off (lightly as
it happens) with an extra $250 excess baggage charge). [censored]
about that until I found out my mates on Malaysian airlines get
hit for twice and three times that. I was a bit over the weight
limit but they were about 10kg over (not hard if you are packing
for a few months over there).
2. Seems when travelling to Europe the carriers have decided to
enforce the (self imposed) limit of 32kg for cattle class
passengers - a bike in any sort of hard case will just about use
all of that up. They even include your carry on baggage in that
32kg limit.
3. I suspect that's the airlines trying to recover some margin where
the profit on the ticket prices is now marginal or non existent at
best; - they will offer to send baggage over the weight limit as
unaccompanied baggage at a lesser cost but that gets there a good
few days after you do, so it may not suit. At check in time you
don't have a lot of options other than [censored] and then paying.
4. Curiously, the 32kg "absolute" limit miraculously becomes 60+kg on
routes to the US - same aircraft, same baggage holds, and double
the limit - bless the obese ones but that is a little lacking in
logic n'est pas?
5. British Airways are talking about lowering(!!) that 32kg limit to
20kg on all their flights, without reference to the length of the
journey.
6. Got called to the security desk re-boarding the flight in Hong
Kong and frog marched down to the baggage handling area and asked
to open the bike box and explain the presence of about 4 of those
little gas bulbs used for a CO2 inflator. My understanding was
that anything inflammable and pressurised or an oxidising agent
(which inert CO2 clearly isn't) was prohibited but that didn't
phase these guys - gas bulbs were confiscated and consequently I
developed a much closer attraction on the rides to those in the
bunch with frame pumps. I have always just included those little
cylinders in the luggage on flights in Oz and never had a problem.
7. I guess that means places like HK can x-ray scan baggage down to
that size of item (which probably is a good thing), except they
need to calm down a bit about things like sparklets bulbs used by
cyclists. Oh well, there is no sacrifice too great to make in us
all fighting godless global terrorism and preventing Al-queda from
getting hold of those cylinders and then turning our water fizzy.
8. Thinking I might avoid the problem on the way home I enquired
about posting clothes and gear no longer needed - italia post (and
apparently most other European post offices sell 10kg prepaid
postage boxes for about 40 euro which is a way better deal than
the airlines give you - they say it will get here in about 4 to 6
weeks.
9. Still a big fan of the $15 Qantas bike box, so long as you pack
the bike well and use lots of bubble wrap etc - the outside of the
box gets a bit ratty after going through a few airports but a
cheap and good solution IMHO - esp if you securely duct tape some
small luggage castor wheels (Bunning's sell em) to both bottom
corners of the box.
10. On returning to Oz with a bike you are an automatic candidate for
the red line (goods to declare) so they can ask you if you used
the bike on any farms and picked up any Euro dirt - didn't seem
fussed about roadies but mtb riders are likely to get asked to
pull the bike out and show there is no dirt or mud on the bike or
wheels - I am not madly enthusiastic about cleaning the bike at
the best of times but with 20+ hours of jet lag a full clean of
the bike in the customs que could be very tedious - I think a very
fulsome clean before you pack the bike would be time well spent
for our fat tyred friends.
11. Tuscany is all either up, or down - pretty, but don't expect to
recover on flat sections - there aren't any!

best, Andrew

--
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Andrew Price said:

Just back from seeing the daughter studying in Italy (oh, and co-incidentally riding with mates for 2 weeks in Tuscany, as you do) - things seem to have changed with the airlines flying to Europe. My observations
<snip>

Always knew those C02 cylinders were evil!

It cost me about $400-450 to send 33kg in two boxes from my door in Melbourne to Heathrow Airport. AirExpress unaccompanied baggage service. Bike and bits arrived 7 days after me.
They broke a £10 skewer but otherwise it was all good.
20kg + 7kg is usually the "limit" but myself and many of my friends have gone over this. I'm sure some of my mates would've gone over the 32kg..
Watch out for Ryan Air and possibly um.. um.. that other cheap mob. They have a 15kg baggage limit not 20kg.
Flying Business or First Class gets you a higher limit (so save those Freq Flyer points! 😉)

hippy

hippy said:

Andrew Price said:

Just back from seeing the daughter studying in Italy (oh, and
co-incidentally riding with mates for 2 weeks in Tuscany, as you do) -
things seem to have changed with the airlines flying to Europe. My
observations
<snip>

Always knew those C02 cylinders were evil!

It cost me about $400-450 to send 33kg in two boxes from my door in
Melbourne to Heathrow Airport. AirExpress unaccompanied baggage
service. Bike and bits arrived 7 days after me.
They broke a £10 skewer but otherwise it was all good.
20kg + 7kg is usually the "limit" but myself and many of my friends
have gone over this. I'm sure some of my mates would've gone over the
32kg..
Watch out for Ryan Air and possibly um.. um.. that other cheap mob.
They have a 15kg baggage limit not 20kg.

I flew Ryan air Bordeaux to London in 2002 and they just had a flat
charge for the bike. Everyone carried on about Ryan air but I had no
problems with them (bike in plastic bag, two panniers strapped together.

Quoted message said:

Flying Business or First Class gets you a higher limit (so save those
Freq Flyer points! 😉)

You need to drink an awful lot to get enough points fro a european trip.

Quoted message said:

hippy

--
Remove norubbish to reply

<snip>
Oh well, there is no sacrifice too great to make in us all fighting godless global terrorism and preventing Al-queda from getting hold of those cylinders and then turning our water fizzy.

ROFLMFBO!!! that is gold! funniest thing i have read all day 😄

In article <[email hidden]>,

Andrew Price said:

Just back from seeing the daughter studying in Italy (oh, and co-incidentally
riding with mates for 2 weeks in Tuscany, as you do) - things seem to have
changed with the airlines flying to Europe. My observations -

1.. Used to be able to get an understanding that sporting equipment (skis,
bike etc) were in addition to usually allowed baggage limits - that's now
history - had a forthright exchange of views with the Cathay check in
person in Sydney and got off (lightly as it happens) with an extra $250
excess baggage charge). [censored] about that until I found out my mates on
Malaysian airlines get hit for twice and three times that. I was a bit over
the weight limit but they were about 10kg over (not hard if you are packing
for a few months over there).
2.. Seems when travelling to Europe the carriers have decided to enforce
the (self imposed) limit of 32kg for cattle class passengers - a bike in
any sort of hard case will just about use all of that up. They even include
your carry on baggage in that 32kg limit.
3.. I suspect that's the airlines trying to recover some margin where the
profit on the ticket prices is now marginal or non existent at best; - they
will offer to send baggage over the weight limit as unaccompanied baggage
at a lesser cost but that gets there a good few days after you do, so it
may not suit. At check in time you don't have a lot of options other than
[censored] and then paying.
4.. Curiously, the 32kg "absolute" limit miraculously becomes 60+kg on
routes to the US - same aircraft, same baggage holds, and double the limit
- bless the obese ones but that is a little lacking in logic n'est pas?
5.. British Airways are talking about lowering(!!) that 32kg limit to 20kg
on all their flights, without reference to the length of the journey.

(bits snipped)

Quoted message said:

best, Andrew

I have often wondered why airlines do not weigh the traveller and
baggage together to get the all-up weight. This is at least a rational
system with some relevance to the cost of flying an aircraft.

I suppose airline companies are concerned that overly large people would
feel marginalised by drawing attention to their weight but at the moment
it is lighter people who are being discriminated against.

Unfortunately, it is not likely to change so long as the number of large
people increases while the number of lighter people diminishes. And
lighter people probably do not buy the in-flight calorie-laden food and
drinks much to the dismay of Qantas/Jetstar and Virgin.

regards,
Darryl

Quoted post said:

I have often wondered why airlines do not weigh the traveller and
baggage together to get the all-up weight. This is at least a rational
system with some relevance to the cost of flying an aircraft.

I suppose airline companies are concerned that overly large people would
feel marginalised by drawing attention to their weight but at the moment
it is lighter people who are being discriminated against.

I put this to an airline check in person one day after waiting behind some very big behinds, with very big bags...response "we are told to avoid that path- if they are too big we charge them for an extra seat!"

Virgin Blue are pretty good they treat a bike as sports equipment and irrespective of how much it weights just allocate 5kgs to your other baggage weigh in total.

United have a policy in the US to "always"charge to carry a bike, ranges from $50US to $110US depending on the route, and even if you have a fold up, that fits into a suitcase, if they ask you what is in the bag and you say "my bike"or words to Bike effect, voila!, they charge you...but than I'm not a fan of UA, anyway, crabby FA's usually and very slap happy with their inflight and their boarding/seating allocation.

I guess if you are lucky enough to fly to a destination often, you can get a local bike and leave it there and just take your pedals, shoes, helmet nicks etc...that's what i do when I go to the US, and many of the velodromes have pretty good hire bikes for $5 a day and most cities you can swing a decent roadie from either a cycling club, College drinking group or some of the better( less a.al ) bike shop's.

In Italy just about every back shed has a bike in it, probably with perished singles and jammed derailleurs, but if you have the time and some bike nous some of those classic beauties come up a treat and you have a ride of pure joy for your stay...you just have to ferret them out and get in with the local tifosi...and luckily they seem to think highly of any aussie who can climb, or drink, and/or chat up mamma in the kitchen...any of the above qualifies you to be let loose in the back shed.

Belgium of course is merely a place where there are three things, bikes, beer and frites...anything else is obviously french and forgetable to them....call it nirvana in the rain perhaps?

ahh the world of bikes..gotta love it...is there anything else?

Andrew, thanks for the update.
The information we get from the airlines etc is often confused however.

- The 32kg limit is a strict *per-piece* limit imposed by the airports
and international regulations. The baggage gorillas are not allowed
to lift more.

- similarly, if you get stopped by airport staff for carrying too much
carry-on, they may be happy for you to split it into two separate bags.
Airlines OTOH may want lots of money, or send you back to the check-in.

- you can arrange an extra allowance for bikes when you book your ticket
on many airlines at no extra cost. If they refuse, try a difference
office, travel agent, or airline.
Be sure it is annotated on your booking on their computer system, and
be prepared to explain all this at the check-in.

- domestic flights have very different rules. And Virgin is very
different to Qantas.

- Qantas bike boxes are nice but HEAVY!! Do not use if weight is a problem.

- You don't really need any bike box, if you sign a damage waiver.
Using a few bits of cardboard, and a platic sheet or bubble wrap
can save several kilos over a bike box, and lots of money.

- BIKE LOCKS - heavy! You can try your luck at taking them carry-on.
We were challenged in transit, and the security guys said no.
So we bagged them, and found someone from the airline to add them
to our checked baggage. At this stage, nobody cared about weight
limits any more. :-)

- in NZ, the lady offered to give us the same deal for bikes as they
normally offer for golf clubs and some other sporting gear. Pay for 3kg
excess and get 15kg extra. You might be able to arrange this in advance.
(NZ domestic was a flat fee of $20 or so)

Quoted message said:

4. Curiously, the 32kg "absolute" limit miraculously becomes 60+kg on
routes to the US - same aircraft, same baggage holds, and double

The US has always been different. They have the "piece system" - it has
all been written in the fine print on your ticket for decades.

Quoted message said:

6. Got called to the security desk re-boarding the flight in Hong
Kong and frog marched down to the baggage handling area and asked
to open the bike box and explain the presence of about 4 of those
little gas bulbs used for a CO2 inflator.

You really, really, ought to read your ticket some time :-)

Quoted message said:

Oh well, there is no sacrifice too great to make in us
all fighting godless global terrorism and preventing Al-queda from
getting hold of those cylinders and then turning our water fizzy.

If they can blow up a plane with a swiss army knife, think what they can
do with CO2! Of course, for some reason the terrorists are unable to
turn glass duty-free-booze bottles into weapons.

Quoted message said:

8. Thinking I might avoid the problem on the way home I enquired
about posting clothes and gear no longer needed - italia post (and

BTW, post from HK is very cheap, and a common transit point.

Quoted message said:

9. Still a big fan of the $15 Qantas bike box, so long as you pack

if you can afford the weight.

Quoted message said:

11. Tuscany is all either up, or down - pretty, but don't expect to
recover on flat sections - there aren't any!

Beautiful country.
How were the cars? I hope they don't drive like in Southern Italy!

Jack Russell said:

I understand that Virgin count the bike as 5kg whatever so am thinking
of using them in future to Europe.

Virgin Blue?
I've thought of that, but its getting very difficult to hijack a plane
these days, and they don't carry enough fuel.

For domestic, see here:
http://www.virginblue.com.au/helpInfo/travelInfo/atTheAirport/index.php?section=Baggage+Information

But beware - excess charges can be far higher than on Qantas.

Quoted message said:

Also United have a flat rate (US$50???) for bikes

See US piece system. That is an "oversized item" charge, which varies
between airlines. A folding bike that fits their size limit would be free.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have often wondered why airlines do not weigh the traveller and
baggage together to get the all-up weight. This is at least a rational
system with some relevance to the cost of flying an aircraft.

I think the answer is that policy is designed to maximise revenue, and
cyclists are collateral damage.
Understand that airlines have huge overheads, and relatively low
per-kg marginal cost. Excess charges are NOT about cost recovery.

Even a full 747 can weigh 1 tonne/passenger on take-off, so 10kg
of excess pp is only 1%, or 2% excluding fuel.

Excess baggage charges get big profits from business travellers and
rich slobs who pack too much, and don't care about the money.
If they tried to charge excess from poor fat slobs, they would just
loose the business.

The answer is to make sure you get some extra allowance when you
book the tickets. Even if you have already paid, try calling the airline
and begging. It may be too late at the airport.

Mike said:

Jack Russell said:

I understand that Virgin count the bike as 5kg whatever so am thinking
of using them in future to Europe.

Virgin Blue?
I've thought of that, but its getting very difficult to hijack a plane
these days, and they don't carry enough fuel.

No Virgin Atlantic Sydney / London via Hong Kong

Quoted message said:

For domestic, see here:
http://www.virginblue.com.au/helpInfo/travelInfo/atTheAirport/index.php?section=Baggage+Information

But beware - excess charges can be far higher than on Qantas.

Quoted message said:

Also United have a flat rate (US$50???) for bikes

See US piece system. That is an "oversized item" charge, which varies
between airlines. A folding bike that fits their size limit would be free.

No I believe United Have a specific rate for bikes (sporting equipment).
They certainly did in 2001 when I flew to Venezuela with them and I was
told the same by a Us cyclist in Europe last year.
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Andrew Price said:

Just back from seeing the daughter studying in Italy (oh, and co-incidentally riding with mates for 2 weeks in Tuscany, as you do) - things seem to have changed with the airlines flying to Europe. My observations -

1.. Used to be able to get an understanding that sporting equipment (skis, bike etc) were in addition to usually allowed baggage limits - that's now history - had a forthright exchange of views with the Cathay check in person in Sydney and got off (lightly as it happens) with an extra $250 excess baggage charge). [censored] about that until I found out my mates on Malaysian airlines get hit for twice and three times that. I was a bit over the weight limit but they were about 10kg over (not hard if you are packing for a few months over there).

My bike recently travelled to the UK and back with me on Qantas. I'd been worried about the excess baggage costs, given we needed to take some camping equipment as well as bike gear and some 'work clothes' for me.

We were well over the limit both ways. together we had 50 kilos (my 20, and travelling partner had a qantas club membership, so had 30 to play with). We were well over 70 kilos on the way back, with the bike boxes (packed with bikes and camping gear and bits and pieces) 55 kilos even before any packs were added on.

I was *very* pleasantly surprised each way to not be charged anything extra. In fact, the guy weighing the boxes went out of his way to cut off a few kilos - weighed one, 22k, the next one was hovering around the 25 and he just called out 'about the same' to the person writing it down on a sticker.

I suspect it is somewhat random though - whoever is doing the check in on the day.

ali

Quoted message said:

Andrew Price wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

9. Still a big fan of the $15 Qantas bike box, so long as you pack
the bike well and use lots of bubble wrap etc - the outside of
the box gets a bit ratty after going through a few airports but a
cheap and good solution IMHO - esp if you securely duct tape some
small luggage castor wheels (Bunning's sell em) to both bottom
corners of the box.

I have used a Qantas bike box with no troubles.

Steven borrowed a hard case, with plenty of hard and soft foam, and
bubble wrap, and is now in the market for a new frame, after baggage
handlers managed to crack the CF (fortunately, on the way home...)

Tam

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:00:40 +1000

Tamyka Bell said:

I have used a Qantas bike box with no troubles.

Steven borrowed a hard case, with plenty of hard and soft foam, and
bubble wrap, and is now in the market for a new frame, after baggage
handlers managed to crack the CF (fortunately, on the way home...)

I think it's a case of "does it look like it might break".

If it looks tough they'll be rough with it. They managed to break the
wheels off a hard case golf case I know of for example. (I loaned it
to a friend before I myself got to test it, Qantas fixed it but she
had a hard time lugging it without its wheels.)

BUt if it looks like throwing it about and pulling it hard when it
hangs up might break it, they'll take a bit more care.

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone said:

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:00:40 +1000

Tamyka Bell said:

I have used a Qantas bike box with no troubles.

Steven borrowed a hard case, with plenty of hard and soft foam, and
bubble wrap, and is now in the market for a new frame, after baggage
handlers managed to crack the CF (fortunately, on the way home...)

I think it's a case of "does it look like it might break".

If it looks tough they'll be rough with it. They managed to break the
wheels off a hard case golf case I know of for example. (I loaned it
to a friend before I myself got to test it, Qantas fixed it but she
had a hard time lugging it without its wheels.)

BUt if it looks like throwing it about and pulling it hard when it
hangs up might break it, they'll take a bit more care.

Zebee

That was my warning before he went, but noooooo, he's a boy, so he knows
better...

😉

T

Tamyka Bell said:

That was my warning before he went, but noooooo, he's a boy, so he knows
better...

Who's the one with a new frame then, hmmm?

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
"Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results."
- Ben, ASR

Random Data said:

Tamyka Bell said:

That was my warning before he went, but noooooo, he's a boy, so he knows
better...

Who's the one with a new frame then, hmmm?

A new frame, sometime, you know, when the insurance all gets sorted
out... until then he's back to his old aluminium number, hehehehehe!

Tam