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Aftermath - dealing with altercations & followup

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01 / Original postAftermath - dealing with altercations & followupcfsmtb · 18 Oct 2005 02 / This pagePosts 1–10Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #10cfsmtb · 19 Oct 2005

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Australia and New Zealand
Published
18 October 2005
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19 October 2005
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cfsmtb
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  1. Original post
    cfsmtb
    Archived post
    #1

    A pet peeve of mine, and doubtless similar to numerous a.ber's, is how to approach followup when an altercation occurs. ie: you've been hit, been the subject of verbal/physical abuse or simply need to contact the police, local council, revalent state authority for more information etc.

    From what I can gather there is no standardised method in Australia, it's piecemeal and greatly varies from state to state. In the US, Bicycle Accident Lawyers tout for business, but then again that's probably due to their litigious society rather than cycling being perceived as a normal activity. In Australia, cycling is perceived as a marganised activity and police generally avoid dealing with what they perceive as a trivial & timewasting.

    Rewind back a few steps, possible one of the best resources I've found pertaining to dealing with cars; (Aussie Version)
    http://www.bikesarefun.org/bicyclesafe.html

    Now I'm not particularly interested in delving into the vast debate of effective cycling, bikelanes, BikeEd etc, etc,the emphasis is more upon learning how to effectively approach all parties concerned in an altercation/potential followup. For example, here's an NY bicycle acccident report form:
    http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/forms/mv104c.pdf
    How to write an effective letter:
    http://www.sierraclub.org/takeaction/toolkit/letters.asp
    http://bicyclejustice.blogspot.com/2005_06_28_bicyclejustice_archive.html#111995175427440617

    Numerous peak competitive/non competitive cycling organisations have info relating bicycle incidents.
    http://www.bv.com.au/inform.php?a=7&b=35&c=199
    http://www.massbug.org.au/twiki/pub/MASSBUG/BikeSaint/Bike_Tipsreportingtopolice.pdf
    http://www.urbanbicyclist.org/cityriderguide.pdf

    But invaribly when *something occurs* cyclists feel as if they are isolated and their concerns are diminished by cycling not being perceived as a legal normalised activity. Hence the myriad of discussions here on a.b that discuss just these issues....

    Anyway....What provoked this rambling discourse was a followup email I received from a local cyclist who was on the receiving end of a nasty incident in Queens Parade. Simon was bravely typing one-handed and despite that managed to inform me of numerous local issues et al. And his previous involvement in the Ealing Cycling Campaign:
    http://www.simonbatterbury.net/pubs/annals.htm
    http://www.ealingcycling.org.uk/

    Of particular interest to me is the emphasis upon social networks and citizenship. Now I'm going to have that overdue morning coffee to provoke the synapses some more & get organised for tonights YarraBUG meeting. :o

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  2. flyingdutch
    Archived post
    #2

    of course the other end of the scale is the duch laws where a reported incident between a car and Bike is presumed to be the car's fault.a start perhaps

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  3. Gemma_k
    Archived post
    #3

    "flyingdutch" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    of course the other end of the scale is the duch laws where a reported
    incident between a car and Bike is presumed to be the car's fault.a
    start perhaps


    And that is only in relation to insurance (ie who pays in civil
    property/injury matters) rather than who is at fault (in criminal matters)
    as I understand it.....

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  4. cfsmtb
    Archived post
    #4
    flyingdutch said:

    of course the other end of the scale is the duch laws where a reported incident between a car and Bike is presumed to be the car's fault.a start perhaps

    And...? Another issue that is extraordinarily bemusing is how we usually fall back to blaming, whinging or generally labouring the point over *actually* attempting to decipher or comprehend some little known facts relating to Australian bicycle related altercations. When you're in car accident, follow the script: call police/ambu/hospital/legal rep/smash repairers. If in a bicycle altercation, go home, sulk, ask family & friends, go to LBS for quotes, possibly follow up with TAC. Call cops and possibly get dudded. Feel isolated.

    What I'm interested in is peoples responses, ie: overcoming the irrational fear factor, getting back on the bike and using other ppls acquired knowledge to deal with the situation. Do you know of bicycle-friendly lawyer? Have you had a way of dealing with the LBS for quotes? Like Tam's recent incident, do you have positive story or advice to tell of dealing with a unpleasant incident? Has a cycling organisation literally gone out of they way to assist you or a family member/friend? Have you got through legal wrangling and have a tale to tell of how the process is fcuked? (Hi Jock) Just trying to paint a picture here, got it?

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  5. Bleve
    Archived post
    #5
    cfsmtb said:
    flyingdutch said:

    of course the other end of the scale is the duch laws where a reported
    incident between a car and Bike is presumed to be the car's fault.a
    start perhaps

    And...? Another issue that is extraordinarily bemusing is how we
    usually fall back to blaming, whinging or generally labouring the
    point over *actually* attempting to decipher or comprehend some little
    known facts relating to Australian bicycle related altercations. When
    you're in car accident, follow the script: call
    police/ambu/hospital/legal rep/smash repairers. If in a bicycle
    altercation, go home, sulk, ask family & friends, go to LBS for quotes,
    possibly follow up with TAC. Call cops and possibly get dudded. Feel
    isolated.

    What I'm interested in is peoples responses, ie: overcoming the
    irrational fear factor, getting back on the bike and using other ppls
    acquired knowledge to deal with the situation. Do you know of
    bicycle-friendly lawyer? Have you had a way of dealing with the LBS for
    quotes? Like Tam's recent incident, do you have positive story or advice
    to tell of dealing with a unpleasant incident? Has a cycling
    organisation literally gone out of they way to assist you or a family
    member/friend? Have you got through legal wrangling and have a tale to
    tell of how the process is fcuked? (Hi Jock) Just trying to paint a
    picture here, got it?

    My only contribution to this is a good one (of sorts). I had
    a crash on my bike, my fault. Not sure if it's really
    relevant to your enquiry, but the bloke I crashed into
    received my contact details, and I paid for all the damage to his bike
    & clothes etc as soon as I knew what the damage was. He took his bike
    to his LBS who gave him a quote (after I'd told him at the scene that I
    would pay for any damage). I went there & paid up.

    I'll see if Peter (owner of Cycle Science) has any experience with this
    sort of thing (I'm sure he has!) and will relay that to the thread as
    well, if you'd like?

    Quoted message said:

    --
    cfsmtb

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  6. cfsmtb
    Archived post
    #6
    Bleve said:


    I'll see if Peter (owner of Cycle Science) has any experience with this
    sort of thing (I'm sure he has!) and will relay that to the thread as
    well, if you'd like?

    Sounds kewl, please go ahead & ask Peter for advice & war stories et al. 🙂

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  7. flyingdutch
    Archived post
    #7
    cfsmtb said:

    What I'm interested in is peoples responses, ie: overcoming the irrational fear factor, getting back on the bike and using other ppls acquired knowledge to deal with the situation. Do you know of bicycle-friendly lawyer? Have you had a way of dealing with the LBS for quotes? Like Tam's recent incident, do you have positive story or advice to tell of dealing with a unpleasant incident? Has a cycling organisation literally gone out of they way to assist you or a family member/friend? Have you got through legal wrangling and have a tale to tell of how the process is fcuked? (Hi Jock) Just trying to paint a picture here, got it?

    I guess my runin in May with car qualifies?
    Basically jsut treeated it like an incident as if i was a driver.
    police/ambu/hospital/legal rep/LBS/TAC

    and the pothole incident, same but BV involved...
    BV/legal rep/LBS/Council

    The former included witnesses and Police, the latte rincluded a very detailed photographic 'essay' of the damage and pothole and letter from BV lawyer saying all kinds of luverly 'we have proof' type stuff

    I really should write/show that latter process and put on BUG website...

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  8. cfsmtb
    Archived post
    #8
    flyingdutch said:


    I really should write/show that latter process and put on BUG website...

    Yep, that's just the sort of anecdotal info I'm interested in. Some a.ber's might recall a 'Database for Dangerous Drivers' being mentioned ages back. But, seriously, that's only a component of a possible Bigger Picture that's missing. Think Grand Unified Theory of Cycling.... 😄

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  9. hippy
    Archived post
    #9
    cfsmtb said:

    Yep, that's just the sort of anecdotal info I'm interested in. Some a.ber's might recall a 'Database for Dangerous Drivers' being mentioned ages back. But, seriously, that's only a component of a possible Bigger Picture that's missing. Think Grand Unified Theory of Cycling.... 😄

    Afraid I don't have anything to contribute, because I've never taken any of my accidents 'further' and thankfully none of them have been serious enough to warrant it, but, thanks for that Ealing cycling link. I'm trying to work my way into the cycling scene over here and that's where I'm living so, um, thanks!

    hippy
    - still jobless

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  10. cfsmtb
    Archived post
    #10
    hippy said:

    Afraid I don't have anything to contribute, because I've never taken any of my accidents 'further' and thankfully none of them have been serious enough to warrant it, but, thanks for that Ealing cycling link. I'm trying to work my way into the cycling scene over here and that's where I'm living so, um, thanks!

    hippy
    - still jobless

    Don't worry moite, that 'Cocktail' gig might just be around the corner!

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